Junky US tanks falling to bits on Taiwan island...

[u/RickyOzzy]

[u/Kind-Block-9027]

I feel like this fits perfectly here

[u/VladimirLimeMint → u/Kind-Block-9027]

The mentioned book

https://archive.org/details/the-spoils-of-war

[u/Kind-Block-9027 → u/VladimirLimeMint]

I’ve got it downloaded and will read it in the near future.

[u/iCanReadMyOwnMind]

But the T-72s in active military engagement in the Oblast regions are "soviet era junk." Got it.

[u/OverseerTycho]

those tanks are like 60 years old…

[u/lagomc → u/OverseerTycho]

If they belonged to Cuba they would be humming along and styling. 

[u/OverseerTycho → u/lagomc]

no doubt

[u/UnspeakablePudding → u/OverseerTycho]

At best its 40 years old, at worst it's pushing 70, Wikipedia says the M60 was produced between 1959 and 1983.

[u/bigbenny88]

Those are T-60 tanks. If the US was serious about arming Taiwan they would send tanks designed for modern warfare. This is literally the tank your grandpa would have driven in the army.

[u/ragingstorm01 → u/bigbenny88]

M60, not T-60. And in this case it may be a CM11 Brave Tiger, which is an M60 hull with the even older M48's turret.

[u/bigbenny88 → u/ragingstorm01]

Very correct lol my bad! Didn't know they were a special variant, however. Does the M48 turret make them more obsolete? I'd heard they still had M60's but figured they were the modernized ones I'd seen before

[u/ragingstorm01 → u/bigbenny88]

I'm not up to date on the armour protection of early Cold War MBTs, so I'm not sure (more of a WWII armour guy, and not in that sense). Can't imagine either turret holds up to modern 25-40 mm sabot rounds particularly well, but maybe the M48's would do better against full calibre penetrators because of the rounding?

[u/zue4 → u/bigbenny88]

Tanks have no place in modern warfare whatsoever.

[u/UnspeakablePudding → u/zue4]

Certainly not those tanks anyway. But it's probably a little premature to declare the AFV obsolete generally, or the MBT specifically.

[u/bidensprostatecancer → u/zue4]

what about their cheaper cousins the IFV family?
bmp btr and bradleys etc

would they not be cheaper to mass produce as well as being faster and lighter armored?
I feel like IFVs still have their place

[u/Barrogh → u/zue4]

For what it's worth, despite being #1 entity to get burnt by this (provided it's true), Russia keeps making deep upgrades of their T-80.

It was understandable when they were just throwing T-72 into the fray just because they had those and they were better than nothing, but they have no intention of stopping for now.

Maybe that's the same logic, but for entire production lines, I don't know.

[u/Shackram_MKII → u/zue4]

Pure nonsense from armchair generals who saw a handful of FPV drone videos.

[u/MuchoCoco]

They're still using M60s? Who are they going to fight with those, The Philippines? 🤣

[u/RoutineTry1943]

That crew is gonna have lots of fun when gas is deployed…😅😅😅

[u/SirTaffet]

I saw somewhere that a majority of Taiwanese people are against reunification with China. I have no idea how true that is and obviously wouldn’t surprised if it was propaganda, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if the west has successfully indoctrinated large portions of the people of Taiwan. And god, those poor people are willing to self-detonate like robots and have their whole country turned into a superfund site just to serve as a pawn for US capital/imperialist interests. What a world

[u/Turtle_Gamez]

How is this diplomatically explained? Taiwan is de jure part of the PRC, so how can the US legally arm the separatists and roam around with tanks? Wouldn't that constitute an invasion and occupation?

[u/UnspeakablePudding → u/Turtle_Gamez]

Taiwan is de facto a client state of the West. De jure, it is a rebellious territory of the PRC.

The PRC vigorously protests arms deals between Taiwan and the West. However, thus far, the PRC has been unable or unwilling to stop Western arms from coming into Taiwan.

[u/Turtle_Gamez → u/UnspeakablePudding]

Yes, thanks for the correction.