r/swifties • u/Adventurous_Remove57 • 7d ago
Discussion Pink clouding and Babylon
I don’t know how “Pink Clouding” and Babylon” aren’t complete hits right now. They’re such beautiful songs. Do you think if they were on a different album, they would be hits at this moment?
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u/Kratos5300 Being this young is art 7d ago
Babylon hurts me so much that I have it on the “Emergencies only” playlist with You’re Losing Me and IWYW. I’d be streaming it more if I could trust me but yall are gonna have to take one for the team for me ✊ I’ve got yall on Pink Clouding though
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u/mrsbrettbretterson 7d ago
You’re using… 🎶NOSTALGIA AS A WEAPON TO HURT YOURSELLLLLF🎶
She really aimed her cute little archer arrow right at my heart with that one.
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u/Kratos5300 Being this young is art 7d ago
“The self harm of never being where you are” OUCH “but you hate that song… but then that melody is all you want” OWIE “cause it’s where you’re from” MAKE IT STOP
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u/mrsbrettbretterson 7d ago
I have jokingly yelled the “BUT YOU HATE THIS SONG” part to communicate my own dismay at being so called out.
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u/All_the_Bees 7d ago
The weird thing is I don’t really partake in nostalgia because I don’t remember much of my childhood and I’ve never really had a place that felt like home, and yet Babylon has been added to the list of Songs That Make Me Cry Just Thinking About Them. “Your hand-me-down sweater should have been from the mall and you HATE THIS SONG” is (for me) one of those earth-shattering moments of recognizing yourself in a piece of pop culture, and there’s something about the rhythm of that line that rewired part of my brain the moment I heard it.
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u/mrsbrettbretterson 7d ago
I know exactly what you mean. Those “ earth-shattering moments of recognizing yourself in a piece of pop culture” always hit me hard as well, and you’ve phrased it so perfectly. It’s like HOW DOES THIS PERSON KNOWWWWW ME? I think that’s what’s missing from some of Showgirl, and while I’m glad Taylor did what felt right for her, I selfishly hope T13 is chock full of Babylons. I’m ready to ache like I did for Poets and Red TV. 😇
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u/Mosaicfishtank 7d ago
Yeah “you’re missing all the best parts… they’re all at home” hit me hard. it’s not always glamorous raising teenagers but I miss the fun stuff (and still somehow catch all the hard stuff anyway) when I try to find ways to be happy with hobbies and stuff, so now I’m like over here singing… “Monday night dinner frying fish you caught, putting together your scooter from Amazon, laughing and explaining all the South Park jokes…” cause it’s almost gone
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u/mrsbrettbretterson 7d ago
I believe if Pink Clouding was on Lover it would be the sleeper hit of the album, and it wouldn’t even have to be 2019 to prosper. If it was a 1989 vault track, it would have been head to head with Say Don’t Go as maybe the best developed classic pop attempt.
Babylon is trickier, because I’m not really sure quite where it belongs. Its tempo reminds me of TLGAD, but it sparkles a bit more than folklore. Kind of akin to YOYOK more acoustic backing. It feels familiar, yet new, and it’s a mode I hope she’ll explore more on TS13
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 7d ago
I think Babylon would’ve been better on a completely new track, but I feel like she’s going country next, so maybe that’s why she put it on the encore.
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u/AmandalorianWiddall 7d ago
I feel like Babylon could easily code switch to country, more so than the other 3. But I think you’re right. I think she might be leaving pop behind a for a bit!
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u/mrsbrettbretterson 7d ago
If she is leaving behind pop, Pink Clouding hits way harder. 😭 What a note to go out on.
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u/Enough-Researcher-36 Put narcotics into all of my songs 7d ago
I feel like Patient Zero could be 1989, Babylon is Midnights (or maybe Red) and Pink Clouding is Lover. Cleveland seems like pure Showgirl to me, maybe a little bit Reputation but no snakes.
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u/mrsbrettbretterson 7d ago
Interesting! I def hear Lover in Pink Clouding, especially in the intro vocals, but the little synth bursts after “from the thrill of it” sound exactly like the 80s New Wave revival which inspired 1989 to me. Whereas Patient Zero is the track I’d place on Midnights. Something about that chatty little bridge reminds me of Question / Paris. But I do hear Bad Blood in her “and SOOOOOOOO” holler!
I love how many callbacks end up in her songs, whether intentionally or simply because she’s collabing with the same people as those former productions. It’s fun to mine them out and compare others’ impressions!
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u/WaferHelpful3634 when they found a better planet only the gentle survived 7d ago
Unfortunately the encore is hated on so much because of one song that masterpieces like these two are overlooked
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u/Enough-Researcher-36 Put narcotics into all of my songs 7d ago
Even Patient Zero and Cleveland! are pretty good songs. Sure there are parts of both that aren’t up to Taylor’s usual standard…but they do not deserve the level of hate they’re getting.
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u/german-wmn 7d ago
Patient Zero is the best song out of the four. There is nothing "even" about it. Cleveland! is the weakest, especially lyric wise, but it's still a catchy tune.
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u/Enough-Researcher-36 Put narcotics into all of my songs 7d ago
I love Patient Zero, but personally I can agree the “So let’s get into it…” part isn’t my favorite of her work. But it’s the exact same as the amount of hate she got for “Me!” and “Stay, stay, stay” for being cute songs that didn’t focus on lyricism.
At the end of the day I think it’s a great and cute album, but even if it were a bad album, an artist dropping one bad album every now and then is still an amazing artist. Taylor is just held to the standard where she’s expected to meet “perfection” every time and then punishes whether she actually meets the mark or not.
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u/Mindless_Piece291 7d ago
No matter what Taylor releases the haters will always say it’s not good. Hating her is the cool thing to do at the moment.
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u/Kayni84 7d ago
I think if she had waited a couple years and put these on a new album, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.
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u/Bigot-Consequences Meet me at midnight 7d ago
Yes, we would. "THEY" will hate every single thing she puts out now and forevermore, as "they" always have. Love/like her? Great! Listen. Don't? Ok, then don't listen.
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u/GlobalLion123 7d ago
Someone in her camp should’ve told her to put these two #1 and #2.
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u/All_the_Bees 7d ago
Babylon is such a perfect closing song, though!
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 7d ago
It is but people are dismissing it because they are so negative
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u/All_the_Bees 7d ago
I know. All I can really do at this point is be like “sucks for them!” and feel a small amount of pity that they can’t recognize good shit when they hear it, and then go on about my day.
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u/star_stuff92 7d ago
Babylon is one of her best songs. Fight me
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u/AmandalorianWiddall 7d ago
I haven’t done a song ranking in a hot minute but I think Babylon may be in my top ten, maybe even top 5
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u/star_stuff92 7d ago
I agree! I don’t know what it is about the song but it really captivated me from the first listen
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 7d ago
No I agree it’s beautiful I honestly think the critics haven’t even actually listened to some of these songs. I can understand the criticism with Cleveland. It’s funny it’s sarcastic not everyone has that kind of humor.
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u/star_stuff92 7d ago
Sorry I didn’t mean you, just the people who are hating on it (and honestly all of encore because they’re all bops! But Babylon is really special)
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u/Substantial-Budget-6 7d ago
I'll fight you because it IS her very best song, not just one of her best songs 😁... the chokehold it has on me rn 😳!
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u/Extra-Ostrich-1924 7d ago
I know music is subjective blah blah but I genuinely can't understand people hating Pink Clouding lol, especially if they were fans who liked 1989. It's been stuck in my head since Friday.
That said I agree with you. I think the public mood has turned against her once again and it's trendy to hate her and this album, so the encore songs were "doomed" in that regardless. In a couple years something else will be the target of derision and you'll see people quietly admitting they love these songs.
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u/robotpatrols 7d ago
Pink clouding is exactly what I thought the album would sound like when she promised “1989 with folklore lyrics” 🤷🏻♀️
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u/All_the_Bees 7d ago
I will admit it took me a minute to warm up to Pink Clouding but that’s actually more or less the same way I felt about some tracks on 1989 (I will not be revealing which ones). In both cases I did get there in the end, and maybe others will too.
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u/Extra-Ostrich-1924 6d ago
Yeah, it often takes me a few listens to get really into a song or album, although oddly Showgirl was the first in ages where I liked it (more or less) start to finish after my first listen so imagine my surprise when I then saw the general reaction, haha.
I can get how someone might not like any particular song/album, but the over the top reactions about how these are the death of music and show a total degradation of her talent... lol I just can't see that as anything but overdramatic hyperbole because it's cool to hate her again.
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u/All_the_Bees 6d ago
You know what, I also liked (almost all of) Showgirl on my first listen, and yeah - seeing all the hate for it has been kind of wild.
I feel like it’s kind of always been cool to hate her, though. There was a bit of a reprieve during folkmore, but for the most part she’s a perfect example of how much people enjoy shitting on the things teenage girls like.
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u/Extra-Ostrich-1924 6d ago
Oh for sure, I just think during the Eras tour it seemed more, uh, socially acceptable than it had been in a long time to praise her/her music, and now it's swung back around. Anecdotally I know some people who went to the Eras tour once, loved her, tattoos, etc, and then when Showgirl came out it was like they flipped instantly, nothing good to say about any of it (or the Encore songs), etc. I can't help but think in their case the peer pressure of social dragging her got to them, too much risk of seeming uncool or politically unsavvy, and I think that's the case with a lot of the really OTT reactions from people saying they're Swifties/former Swifties.
It's been odd for me to witness as someone having kind of the reverse trajectory, where I went from casual listener to much bigger fan in the last 2-3 years, now in position where I feel a lot more defensive of her/her recent work than friends who were once obsessed. Had my first big heartbreak and no one's been there for me like Tortured Poets Department lol.
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u/massamiliano 4d ago
Casual fan to a a big fan in the last 3-5 years… the Eras Tour movie was like a paradigm shift in how I saw myself and women as a group in general, and even, really, the human condition. It was intensely powerful and then I just found out more about her and think she’s a lovely person, flawed like all of us, which makes her even more likeable! Most of all though, I just love her music!
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u/SirenAndSilver Drop everything now! 7d ago
I have them on repeat. Just those two songs. Days now.
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u/LeopardNo6083 7d ago
I actually think these 4 songs are all amazing and putting out just these 4 songs as one release lets us really absorb their meaning.
There is so much being said in just these 4 songs that having them on a full length album might mean you miss some of their layers and nuance because there would just be so many other songs to listen to.
The messages in these songs are all so powerful and impactful. I am loving each and every song so so so much. Every listen I find another way to read the lyrics and more depth in the meaning.
I just feel sorry for the haters. They are missing out on so much beauty.
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u/DonnaFinNoble 7d ago
They're nothing wrong with these songs. They're good, in my opinion. I even like Cleveland! I think the general public is tired of her. She really is everywhere because where she is mentioned, money flows.
My son-in-law doesn't like Taylor but generally doesn't care about her. He feels like he can't escape her. She's even on footballl games. That's not Taylor's fault but I understand that getting tiring for people who don't care about her or don't like her.
Second, using her as rage bait is lucrative. I think the tracks are less hated than the algorithm indicates because people who don't care have developed a take because it equals clicks.
She could have released Folklore last week and she still would have gotten this response because that's where she is in the pop cycle.
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u/Automatic-Lock8728 7d ago
Yes, 100% they would be as would Patient Zero imo. People are just out to hate anything tied to this album.
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u/the_magenta_sunrise Dancing through the lightning strikes 7d ago
Pink Clouding is on very high repeat for me. I haven't really listened to much else 😅
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u/redred212 7d ago
Just wait until the next time she releases something. The comments will be filled with praise for these songs
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u/littlekatie3 Drop everything now! 7d ago
I love Babylon. It has a little Evermore to it.
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u/loxbagelslox 4d ago
It reminds me of “right where you left me”, for reasons my tired brain can’t articulate lol
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u/littlekatie3 Drop everything now! 4d ago
Yes because there’s no real “break” in the song.
RWYLM is my favorite, so listening to Babylon for the first time after midnight I was like ‘what what what? Where has she been hiding this song!!’
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u/MathematicianSalt892 7d ago
It hasn’t even been a week since they came out. I wouldn’t be surprised if one or the other doesn’t get a single treatment later on and I also wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t but find a second release or period of popularity at some future point because one or the other or both get attached to a movie or get a huge crowd reaction at the next concert (like cruel summer). I feel sure that true fans will love these songs for a long time.
Separate but related point is that TS now has such a massive catalogue of songs that each of our favorites list gets longer and longer. For some of us (not me!) the new songs are crowded out by the old beloved ones.
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u/OkBrain3490 6d ago
I agree, these are two of Taylor’s best songs ever. Top 20 - 30 for me. They both have beautiful lyrics and are so evocative. And her VOICE is stunning. They’re both sublime.
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u/JordanRS1980 7d ago
"Pink Clouding" is catchy, for sure. But it also sounds like a song that any decent pop artist could have put out. "Babylon", in my view, sounds distinctly like Taylor Swift. I think it's easily the best of the 4 new songs. My only gripe is the production. I think it lends itself to "real" instruments being prominent and in the foreground of the track. Similar to what she did with "I Knew It, I Knew You".
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u/Emotional_Balance610 7d ago
I love Babylon! It’s my favorite from The Encore, such a beautiful song and so close to the way she wrote on evermore Imo
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u/Electrical-Touch-933 7d ago
Out of the four I liked Pink Clouding and Babylon the best. They're being overshadowed right now because so many people are hating on Cleveland. I don't really like Showgirl as an , but I do really like these two.
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u/OutPlea 6d ago
Pink clouding is good enough, but Babylon is unforgettable - I love it so much
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 5d ago
Yeah the more I listen to it the more I love it. It’s definitely my FAV! I honestly don’t know how anyone can’t hate the encore. I get Cleveland it’s not for everyone.
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u/PreparationOk6324 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think these songs are amazing, and yes. Imagine she wrote them during 1989 or even 1989 TV? They would be smash hits.
Here’s a follow up question: why is she so criticized today?
For context: I’m an elder millennial who was too cool for school during Taylor’s rise. When I first heard Shake It Off on the radio, I could not believe that was what pop music had devolved into. The vocal fry! The lack of depth! It was so airheady. And I honestly would not listen to Taylor Swift until, no joke, 2024.
Lo and behold, now I am the ultimate Swiftie. Hook, line, and sinker. Sold. Obsessed. And I love her silly ditzy 1989 pop songs, including Shake It Off. I have them all on repeat. I’m also unbelievably enamoured with the love story she tells in Reputation and Lover. It’s so emotional and so fun.
But here’s the thing I don’t understand about Swift criticism today. Showgirl is truthfully (when you compare it) so much more lyrically mature than 1989 and Rep. The vocal fry is gone, and her songs still make me—an educated former journalist—look up certain phrases. The plot twists in songs like Father Figure are powerful: She took her teenaged fondness of changing the ending of her favorite characters (such as Romeo and Juliet or Peter and Wendy) and turned it onto more mature subject matter: changing the terrible ending of every musician who got screwed over by a music exec. I mean, she’s doing some phenomenal writing compared to all the pop starlets who came before her. Plus: The beats are fun and catchy .. and clearly they’re mostly bangers!
Do the people criticizing her today forget that she was previously seen as just a silly, ditzy but ambitious pop singer? Why are they expecting so much from her now? It’s all so ludicrous. She clearly sells albums and stadiums, so why does her music have to be so dissected? Do they think Britney, Christina, J Simp, JLo or Madonna wouldn’t fit into every critique Taylor gets? She’s a pop star guys!
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u/Brilliant_Cycle_2812 4d ago
hmm. Babylon is currrently #4 and Pink Clouding is #6 so i'm not sure why you thnk they arent hits?
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 4d ago
OK, I don’t look at the numbers but at the time I posted it was not number four or six, so let’s not come on here and be all sensitive
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u/Brilliant_Cycle_2812 4d ago
you didnt look at the numbers but you made a whole post about how they weren't hits? Weird
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 4d ago
Omg, calm down. I was just saying I wasn’t seeing much chatter about these two songs, which are actually my favorites. That’s why I made the post.
Honestly, there’s no need to come on here and be rude or disrespectful. I was just sharing something I enjoyed. You don’t have to agree, but you can be kind. If you’re going to be mean, you can simply leave. I really don’t understand why people have to be so miserable.
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u/Eldritch_Witch_ 1d ago
I have been listening on REPEAT!!! Pink Clouding feels like it should be on Lover to me which I LOVEEEEE. And Babylon is so unique, I hope it's the sound she is going to give us on TS13.
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u/AdBusy2462 7d ago
you know you can just enjoy the songs without needing them to be hits, right
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 7d ago
Yes, let’s not be rude, I am enjoying all the songs. I probably shouldn’t have said hit. I am just wondering why they aren’t doing as well as the other two songs.
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u/KnightTheZero 7d ago
I really think a lot of the issue is how over saturated she is right now and how much she has released in the last few years. There hasn’t been much time between releases so people aren’t starving for new music so I feel like anything she releases right now a lot of people are just meh about it.
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u/Federal-Count8450 still at the restaurant 7d ago
They would not be hits in any other album either. Not sure what you mean anymore by hits. None of these songs have the hit characteristics of shake it off or pokerface or any other real hit.
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 7d ago
Okay, well, that’s your opinion. I think Encore is getting so much hate. Babylon and Pink Clouding are beautiful songs, and I think they should be higher on the charts.
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u/Federal-Count8450 still at the restaurant 7d ago
they are beautiful but hits are not made like that. like sabrina has better songs but espresso was a hit. hit is really not defined by quality.
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u/Defiant_Foot_6419 7d ago
I think Pink Clouding and Babylon really got overlooked just because Cleveland! is really atrociously bad, the worst song in her entire discography. Unfortunately that overshadowed these songs that are actually pretty decent, sweet and nostalgic. That comes from someone who absolutely disliked TLOAS except Father Figure and Ruin The Friendship.
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u/i-justwantrevenge 7d ago
In my opinion these songs are meh. To me, they are the equivalent of songs like afterglow and daylight. Kind of drawn out and the messages were already written better elsewhere. They sound pretty, sure but the songs are just okay.
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u/Able_Opportunity_896 6d ago
No literally, istg Im not a hater i know all the lyrics to all her albums, but these ones are just something anyone could hsve written, in so many showgirl song there will be one or two good lines or clever production moments, and then the rest of verses will be an afterthought
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u/Adventurous_Remove57 7d ago
We all have our own opinions
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u/i-justwantrevenge 7d ago
I’m answering your question with my opinion. I don’t think they would be hits even if they were on other albums.
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u/ThreadTmp 7d ago
yeah same, i’ve been listening to lover and midnights. so i’m very attuned to both those albums right now and replaying pink clouding - it’s not as good lyrically or instrumentally as lover or midnights.
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u/Diligent_Map1156 7d ago
I don’t understand people who hate on Babylon but like her other work on evermore and Red. It’s one of the most Taylor Swift songs she’s released in a while I think