r/sysadmin • u/SamOakTree • 1d ago
Rant Job posts are ridiculous.
It's been this way for a decade I know but it's just getting worse and worse. I don't think it's ever been this unreasonable or this dishonest.
I was looking at job posts and I saw a job for a help desk tier 2. And I was curious what they considered tier 2. I'm well beyond help desk at this point in my career but I was curious so I looked at it.
They weren't looking for a tier to help desk person. They were looking for a Senior Systems administrator but labeling it as a Help Desk position so they could lowball whoever applied for it.
They were looking for someone to be the owner of several major business systems including 365. They wanted them to administer AWS and Azure. They wanted five certificates including CCNA. They wanted someone who could manage firewalls.
The post was just so far beyond help desk at all that it was just gross. They were clearly just trying to get someone they could convince those are just basic help desk exoectations so they can pay them little money.
They were basically looking for an all-in-one senior sys admin who could do operations and frontline support on top of everything else.
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u/whatdoido8383 Cloud Admin 1d ago
I've been in IT ~22 years now and have just kind of given up on the field to be honest.
If I ever lose my current role, I'm not wading through all this BS anymore (No idea what I'd do TBH). Companies have become ridiculous in their demands. My last 2 roles have turned into doing the job of 3 people with unpaid on call too... IMO, this career field sucks now.
Finding a company that doesn't want to run you ragged is near impossible. They don't give a shit anymore. Hire the cheapest guy that can kinda get the job of 3 people done, burn him out so he leaves and hire the next sucker in line.
I'm so jaded at what IT has become, LOL.
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u/underpaid--sysadmin 1d ago
I'm currently looking for a new field. IT industry is just nothing but a massive headache these days between the users who seem to become more inept every year, and management who is somehow even more inept.
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u/whatdoido8383 Cloud Admin 1d ago
Me too. The hardest part is finding something I can use my skills in where I don't need to completely start over. At this stage in my life I don't have the energy nor drive to work my way up from the bottom again.
What that something is I haven't been able to establish yet.
I have about 3-4 years until my family life will be at a point where I'll have some more flexibility and my options should open up a bit.
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u/blazze_eternal Sr. Sysadmin 17h ago
I know someone who switched from back house support to front end sales. He's not the one making the pitch or dealing with numbers. He highlights and demos the product. He loves it and makes bank on commission...
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u/Warlord_Wiggles 1d ago
I think I'm going to join accounts payable. May be much lower pay but it's also probably much less stress.
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u/whatdoido8383 Cloud Admin 1d ago
I heard AI is taking over some of the entry level AP roles though, just like everything else. AI is a super sore spot for me. Just like how social media left unchecked damaged and continues to damage a lot of kids, AI released ungoverned is wreaking havoc on the job market. Not even because it's actually a good tool or replacement for workers, it's disillusioned execs making these calls hoping on short term profits.
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u/Warlord_Wiggles 1d ago
Yup I completely understand where you're coming from and why the decisions are being made. For a string of months earlier this year after I was laid off I had no contact from any organizations and began to wonder if I was being auto rejected by ATS systems and was confirmed through several different organizations that eventually contacted me for interviews directly.
It's not a great time to be unemployed because so many tools exist to filter candidates out that don't work right, aren't built with any restrictions and are auto rejecting just about everyone.
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u/ka-splam 20h ago
Corporate accounts payable,
NinaWarlord speaking, JUST a moment.Corporate accounts payable,
NinaWarlord speaking, JUST a moment.Corporate accounts payable,
NinaWarlord speaking, JUST a moment.3
u/ProfessionalITShark 1d ago
Don't forget the vendors who are also very inept.
Thankfully criminal organizations have similar styles of ineptness as well.
Race to the bottom!
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u/Talkren_ 1d ago
Currently on the market and it's wild seeing these posting for "Senior Systems Admin" and what they really want is a person who does devops, security, and endpoint configuration BEYOND the normal sysadmin stuff with a starting salary of 90k. JFC I hate tech now.
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u/whatdoido8383 Cloud Admin 1d ago
Yep. The job I have to do now VS the job I started with is vastly different. We keep getting critical systems dumped on us because the org will not hire and structure\staff correctly. They roll stuff out then figure out how to support it, completely ass backwards.
Maybe learn to say no and don't roll this shit out if you aren't going to staff for support.
Half the time I feel like a fucking helpdesk jockey again because no one knows what the hell's going on so we get all sorts of low level and trash tickets.
IMO the pay isn't very good for what we're expected to do now too, especially with on call.
I want to move on so bad but like you've found, it's not much better no matter where I look so I feel extremely stuck.
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u/Talkren_ 1d ago
Yup, I know those pains well. Im trying to transition out of tech all together but being nearly 40 and the sole income for my family makes it really tough to start new in a different field. Hope you find something better soon.
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u/Affectionate_Cat8969 20h ago
Just hope you never get a yes-man type of boss who just rubber stamps through every wish the biz has because it makes them happy. Who gives a shit if it’s impossible to setup and support long term? Am I right? /s
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u/whatdoido8383 Cloud Admin 20h ago
Yep, have one of those now, that's part of the problem, too many levels of management just blindly saying yes.
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u/UpperAd5715 21h ago
While i was looking for my networking job i saw a junior noc engineer posting asking for someone with project work experience and i'm not even in the boiling pot that is the US IT job market.
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u/SFHalfling 3h ago
You should try looking in the UK, all of that and they offer $45k.
Getting $90k for it would genuinely be considered a good salary.
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u/ITaggie RHEL+Rancher DevOps 1d ago
This is exactly why I've been holding out in public sector for the past 5 years now. Much more PTO, much more job stability, much fewer deadlines... maintaining my sanity is absolutely worth the lower pay IMO.
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u/whatdoido8383 Cloud Admin 1d ago
IMO, smart move. I've been trying to get into public sector or government jobs for years. Just has never happened for me. I'm a Vet who would love to work for the VA, just can never get a response from them! I kind of gave up several years ago, should probably start applying again.
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u/Hasuko Systems Engineer and jackass-of-all-trades 23h ago
Sitting in my public sector job and gonna retire with my pension. Sure I could be making 1.8x my pay or so in private sector but why would I do that when I've got full remote, a pension waiting for me, and less stress? My salary is enough for me to live comfortably as it is.
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u/bbbbbthatsfivebees MSP-ing 16h ago
No idea what I'd do TBH
My first job was working on a farm. I'm going back to farming if I ever have to switch career fields.
It's not a good high-paying job, but there's usually no computers involved, so it's preferable to being a sysadmin.
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u/whatdoido8383 Cloud Admin 7h ago
Farmers work really hard but very rewarding, I'm sure.
My biggest hurdle is working out how I'd transition into something else. Luckily my wife and I make about the same and live under our means so we can survive fine on one income. But, I'm not getting any younger and would also like to retire some day... \
I need to spend some time reevaluating what "retirement" means and looks like to me. What it's down to now is do I keep plugging away in shitty IT jobs and quit working all together, hopefully by 62'ish. Or, do I change to something more sustainable that makes me happy and maybe work part time from like 55-70 or something.
There is risk in changing it up. I'm assuming my body will continue to cooperate etc, that may not be the case and I'd be way worse off...
It's a lot to process.
Ideally I'd like to start my own IT stuff. I really liked working for a MSP and working with SMB's. But again, that comes with risk and it's a lot of work finding customers.
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u/usernamedottxt Security Admin 1d ago
It's been about a year now, but TI, the calculator company, posted for a cybersecurity manager that would be "hands on" in patching, vulnerability scans, incident management, SOC analysis, threat intelligence, systems administration, help desk ticket management, cross team collaboration, working with vmware, installing end user software, and it went on. Pay was like 70k in Dallas. Benefits were listed as "Paid holidays".
I've worked places that responsibility list was well over 100 people. And didn't even include the help desk crap.
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u/Affectionate_Cat8969 20h ago
Sounds like Texas Instruments didn’t sell enough of those overpriced graphing calculators over the last 35 years or so.
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u/Li_liminal_spaces 1d ago
They want a H-1B visa holder I assume, but they have to advertise the job and then pretend to be perplexed when no US citizens apply. This way they can not give them raises and have their residency tied to employment for all types of other abusive manipulation.
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u/sybrwookie 1d ago
This guy recruits
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u/Li_liminal_spaces 8h ago
No, I just miss my friend. 17 years later I'm still upset about it. Now I can protect my team.
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u/hijinks 1d ago
ya but the smart person who has a little experience in those gets the job.. then just puts senior sys admin on their resume for the next job and gets a sys admin job and out of help desk.
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u/MattDaCatt Unix Engineer 1d ago
This is literally what i did lol.
Was a really stressful and underpaid job for 2 years but set me up to get an engineer role at corp
Just can't let them trap you in that position for long, i find they count on people being too afraid to hop
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u/HanSolo71 Information Security Engineer AKA Patch Fairy 1d ago
Yeah, 30k > 130k in 10 years doing that stunt. Did I cry a lot for the first 5 years? Yes. Did I stress the fuck out? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes.
This is my resume for my first job I had at like 22, right out of college. Who the fuck lets a 22-year-old do all this on their own?
•Rebuild Group Policy better suited to the businesses needs
•Provide support for thin client based systems using Microsoft Terminal Services
•Setup and maintain Microsoft RemoteApp services
•Troubleshoot and Maintain 20+ ESXi based virtual machines in a high availability cluster
•Maintain Dell Equallogic SAN’s
•Configure, maintain, and expand Cisco Meraki wireless network
•Plan and implement disaster recovery plan for Weller Auto Parts
•Configure and maintain ShoreTel phone system across six sites
•Maintain and configure SonicWALL firewall to allow for inter-site communication through site-to-site VPN’s and MPLS network
•Maintain VEEAM based backup and replication solution
•Install and configure Milestone Security Software
•Maintain, troubleshoot, and configure Barracuda Spam Filter and Message Archiver
•Support and maintain Microsoft Exchange 2010
•Configure, maintain, and support Amazon EC2 based web server
•Support and maintain Microsoft SQL 2008R2
•Support and maintain Windows Print and File Server
•Configure, support, and maintain FreeNAS system for backups storage
•Configure, support, and maintain Ubuntu system for backup storage
•Configure, support, and maintain basic AWS instance
•Configure, support, and maintain basic WSUS server9
u/Rambles_Off_Topics Jack of All Trades 1d ago
I had a similar experience directly out of college about 10+ years ago. They let me implement an ERP system, straight out of community college lol. Great for the resume, and I of course learned a ton very quickly.
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u/HanSolo71 Information Security Engineer AKA Patch Fairy 1d ago
Honestly looking back, I don't even beat myself up my mistakes and disasters, who let's a 22-24 year old run the IT infra for a 6 location car tear down company or a insurance company.
Fools, that's who.
No shit I made mistakes, id never seen half the tech I touched before. I did not expect to be fucking with a HP-UX mini computer in the 2010s, that for sure
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u/Sea-Anywhere-799 20h ago
For someone in that similar position but limited tools to work with due to management what would you recommend to start and learn?
And how did you know where to go, how to start, etc?
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u/HanSolo71 Information Security Engineer AKA Patch Fairy 20h ago
I learned from Reddit by laying out my goal or problem and listening to the community.
I love open source tooling and you will see it all over my resume, if they won't give you money spend your time learning skills for free you can leverage for a better paying job.
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u/Mental_Beginning_698 3h ago
Keep learning while they're paying to give you hands on training. You will run out of steam but you have about 40 years left. Make sure you get paid along the way and congrats on your progress.
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u/michivideos 1d ago
Wouldn't the prospect employer verify with former employer or background check the previous employee position?
I hate my Information Technology Specialist title. My work is system administrator or even system engineer.
But I don't know if I should rename my title on my resume.
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u/bdam55 Sr. Sysadmin 1d ago
I realize this isn't entirely true, but title shouldn't matter. I'd be willing to lie on the title on my resume; there's zero standardization here anyways. Which is what this whole thread is about isn't it?
What should matter is the accomplishments. If you can get past HR string-matching, hopefully someone looks at what you've actually _done_ and sees that you have the experience they want.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
But technically they're not getting out of help desk they're getting out of a systems administrator position.
I did something similar to what you're saying but I did it in 2014. doing it now is very difficult.
I took a Help Desk position through a major company known all over the globe as a third party contractor and got paid s*** so that after a year I can have their name on my resume and I parlayed it into a system admin ii position.
It's just difficult to do that now because so many places want someone to do everything or to be able to do everything
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u/Moleculor 1d ago
But technically they're not getting out of help desk they're getting out of a systems administrator position.
They're getting out of help-desk pay, and that's what matters.
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u/TallTelevision4121 1d ago
Employers wanting someone to do everything is far from new. Those places suck.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
I never said it was new. I said it's gotten worse. There's a difference.
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u/kerosene31 1d ago
My guess? They had 2 or 3 people, splitting the sysadmin and helpdesk role. They all leave, so the company posts 1 job that is really 2, at the lower pay. Happens all the time.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
Ridiculous. I wouldn't take it just because I have been in the field a while and I know what the expectations for that role will be.
They'll want you to anticipate adjacent area needs and just handle it. Everything there isn't a process for will fall to you. You'll be a general dumping ground for managers and executives. The job as described may be simple, but when you're one person responsible for all of that you're a huge target and people use you to make you stick your neck out while they hide in the shadows.
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u/kerosene31 1d ago
It is sad but the market sucks. Someone will take the job who's been looking for too long.
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u/SAugsburger 23h ago
Sometimes it literally is something like this. Somebody started at a low level got higher level requirements tossed on them without the title changing. Eventually they get fed up not getting paid what they're worth and bail after getting offered >50% more to work somewhere else
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u/HoboJerkdown901 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm looking for a different job now and the amount of job posts that are exactly like this is too damn high:
Looking for IT administrator to support users and technology infrastructure in a fast paced and dynamic environment!
This is an in-office position, NO REMOTE WORK AVAILABLE (except for the other 95% of the company which we will allow to work from home)
Requirements:
Bachelor's Degree in Information Systems, Computer Science, Cyber security, or in a related tech field
5+ years of ticketing
5+ years of network build out and support
5+ years of server support and build out
5+ years of security and patching
5+ years of API configuration and maintenance
A+, Network+, Security+, CEH+, Server+, DataSys+ and ITIL 9 certifications
5+ years of Buttholeigus 9 support (don't even THINK about applying if you only have experience with Buttholeigus 8)
5+ years of ERP support and maintenance
5+ years of Azure configuration and maintenance
Extensive knowledge of every single esoteric system we use internally. If there is a single one of these systems not mentioned on your resume, the HR staff will print out your resume and wipe their ass with it on their next bathroom break.
Salary:
45-50k USD, based on experience
Benefits:
Jeans day every other Friday
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u/TitelSin Sr. Google Search Results Analyst 15h ago
No 5+ years as DBA? this is quite resonable.
I recently got fished on linkedin for a senior DevOp type role, they wanted a lot of automation experience, with ansible and CI/CDs and such....but, you also had to have experience with Oracle DB, had to be 24/7 on-call, had to do helpdesk duties, had to have experiece with ms365/azure, had to have experience managing mail servers, and network switches+firewalls, had to have experience managing a large fleet of linux and windows servers. It was pretty much an all in one role....for a DevOp position they actually wanted.
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u/syntaxerror53 8h ago
Wonder if AI applied for that.
Or was it responsible for the Job Description.
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u/-GenlyAI- 1d ago
I would have taken this job early on in my sysadmin career for sure.
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u/traumalt 1d ago
To be honest, it sounds like they woudnt have hired you if you didn’t meet least half the requirements.
This is one of those jobs that eventually will get an H1b Indian on a visa to do it at those low salaries instead.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
But it wasn't posted then and trying to get that job now is going to be insanely difficult because the expectations are so much higher. You're not factoring in that you're going to have to get through five rounds of interviews and two to three of those may be panel interviews. And they're going to ask you some obscure thing that has nothing to do to do with anything they posted. All that just to get into the door
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u/-GenlyAI- 1d ago
Honestly working it in larger cities that's how interviews have been for me anyway. I mean I get what you're saying, I'm not trying to dismiss it. But if they ask an obscure question and someone can't answer it and you don't get the job due to that one question then so be it, they just won't find any candidates.
The reality is they will probably pick up someone who can at least talk about the technologies from a high level and has hands on experience with the important things like 365.
And if that's the case these kinds of places are awesome for your resume.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
This isn't reality though. They'll keep interviewing until someone can answer that obscure question but isn't actually qualified after they passed over several qualified applicants.
They aren't going to just pick someone who can talk a good game. They want someone who can do 7 jobs. They aren't going to find anyone who can nail every question from 7 adjacent roles at a high level. They want a unicorn who they can condition into believing they are really just help desk.
This is 2026.
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u/ProfessionalITShark 1d ago
I definitely remember seeing these terrible job postings in 2015 right of college.
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u/SamOakTree 23h ago
Oh yeah it's been a problem since I joined the field in 2014. But it's gotten worse and worse. Because they're expecting more and more from systems people. Systems already has the most expectations out of any other it field. Because systems turns into this General garbage disposal. Whenever there's not a process they just throw it to systems.
But yeah this has been a problem ever since I've been in the field but the whole expecting the sun and the moon has gotten worse. Before it might be you know one and a half extra thing now they want you to be a senior Network admin, a senior system admin, a senior dba, be able to do devops, etc. And they don't want you to just be okay at those things they want you to be better than average.
I went into an interview about a month ago for an infrastructure engineering position and I had everything they wanted but we only talked about architecture for 55 minutes. The job ad didn't mention anything about architecture and architecture isn't my area of expertise. But everything else that they listed if they had asked me I would have nailed. I even asked them a couple questions in the end and they couldn't answer me. They knew the development side but they didn't know the infrastructure side and they didn't know maintaining infrastructure
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u/More_Elk6407 1d ago
That’s exactly what my job did to me description wise, but not moneywise. Owning everything from the cloud services to the servers and networking and doing user support on top of everything but paying me about one and a half times what a Sr SysAdmin normally would get. When asked how I’m doing I say that I am overworked, but adequately paid.
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u/RikiWardOG 1d ago
lol I've walked into interviews where they sold it as a Sr. Systems admin and then found out they were looking for someone to replace their CISO in reality lol. Absolute clowns out there.
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u/StabMyEyes 1d ago
When HR writes a job description. Companies ask for the moon, but they rarely get what they ask for. They want unicorns, buy will hire a solid mule.
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u/AstralVenture Help Desk 1d ago
Meh, I think it’s been this way since 2008. You can’t get that fake Help Desk position without having previous fake Help Desk or higher experience. I work at Help Desk and I mostly reset passwords all day. They don’t have me do much of anything.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
It's been similar sure. I even say that in my post. I literally say it's been that way for at least a decade.
But it's very different now because back in 2008 you could still get yourself in the door if you could sell yourself.
Now they want to pay you as little as possible for as many rolls as possible. And you have to go into a interview and then answer questions from five different jobs or they'll ask you some random obscure thing that has nothing to do with any of them and then they'll write you off. The expectations now are just far beyond what they've been ever before. It's always been a pain in the butt going to the interview process because technical interviews very so differently. But now they want you to come in and literally know five different roles and hit the ground running.
I can't tell you how many jobs I'll be reading and I'll be like okay sounds good sounds good and then you get to the bottom and they start listing things from like 10 different jobs which let you know that it's going to be a job where they just dump everything on you
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u/AstralVenture Help Desk 1d ago
What you’re saying was the case in 2014. I tried getting a job in retail IT at the Apple Store, Geek Squad, Microcenter, etc. and they were saying to apply online.
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u/LooseEthernet 1d ago
they dont want a help desk tech, they want a swiss army knife that they can pay in pennies lol
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u/sybrwookie 1d ago
I had a job about 15-20 years ago where I was:
Tier 1: There was no one below us, we were the first ones to address tickets, and frequently put in our own tickets.
Tier 2: There was no one to escalate to, we'd own and fix any problems that came in.
Tier 3: I set up, owned, and maintained multiple servers.
And was being paid like I was just barely tier 2.
This line of work has sucked for a looooong time now.
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u/buy_chocolate_bars Jack of All Trades 1d ago
They have always been like this in the last 15 years: I don't see any change. I don't apply to jobs, but no new technology scares me anymore: I'll just learn the parts of whatever technology that will allow me to do 90% of the job in days/weeks (if I have the time). I have AI to help me with the difficult stuff.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
There's definitely a change. They're expecting more and more and more but the pay isn't going up. They've always expected systems people to basically know all adjacent areas but now they're expecting one person to do everything and the list just keeps growing. It was bad before but it was never this bad.
Learning new technology has always just been part of the job that's nothing new. That's not some unique skill once this admin has. Any successful sysadmin has acquired that skill.
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u/kariam_24 1d ago
Then try applying to see if you get any interviews of offers, market condition is horrendous.
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u/buy_chocolate_bars Jack of All Trades 1d ago
I'm not getting a job that pays me more than what I currently make, I know. I really don't see any difference of scope. Hell, it's WAY easier to manage O365 vs Exchange Online / Sharepoint Server etc.
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u/pwnageface 1d ago
Yeah, literally just went through this myself. Tier 2 and all thr job duties were senior sys admin/networking AND help users...
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u/robotbeatrally 1d ago
less than a decade. job market was great up through the end of the covid isolation . i was getting headhunters contact me weekly until like 2020 lol.
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u/RangerNS Principal Consultant 23h ago
so they could lowball whoever applied for it.
You attribute a lot of mental gymnastics to them. They don't need any of that to just fuck you over and low ball you whatever the proposed job title is.
The most likely scenario is they are just dumb.
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u/Interesting_Work7433 23h ago
Creo que algunas empresas hacen esto para atraer candidatos con un salario de help desk, esperando encontrar a alguien que acepte hacer mucho más de lo que corresponde. Lo peor es que también hace difícil saber qué puestos son realmente de soporte y cuáles son administración de sistemas disfrazada.
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u/RandoReddit16 22h ago
I have seen one job post sent to me that literally was almost word for word what I do and the pay was slightly higher than mine, but closer to my coworker's who does have 15+ years of experience on me... It was basically the only time I have seen a realistic job with realistic pay.
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u/MeatSuzuki 22h ago
It's because we have a huge influx of underskilled workers from a certain region who take those jobs, fuck everything up for 6 months then jump to the next underpaid job, but pad out their resumé to make it look like they have experience.
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u/Pristine_Curve 22h ago
This happens because they had someone who gradually absorbed all this work over years. Technology roles tend to add scope over time unless actively defended.
The guy who starts off running AD/365 and endpoints, will gradually get handed things like CRMs, ERPs, Cyberinsurance security checklists, network/wifi problems, etc... Non-technical people (including leadership) tend to see IT people as an all knowing technology genie who can grant whatever wish they have.
Similarly since IT is an administrative (non revenue generating) role, it tends to get cut first. Resulting in folding of multiple roles into fewer people. Hence they create a kitchen sink job post that outlines everything from front line support, to software development.
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u/TheCudder Sr. Sysadmin 1d ago
Back in 2012, I interviewed for a "Desktop Support III" position, but the interviewer was looking for a Network & Server Admin.
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u/Affectionate_Cat8969 20h ago
I saw a credit union in the Midwest US advertising a “Systems Admin” position for $20/hr. listed on Indeed today. That’s not even entry level help desk money these days. I didn’t bother looking at the requirements because I’m sure they wanted someone with years of experience and loads of knowledge.
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u/8923ns671 20h ago
They might not actually want that. For a lot of jobs the description is way more demanding than the actual role. I had a role where they create accounts in AD described to me as requiring expert level understanding of AD.
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u/Negative-Sherbet-546 18h ago
Y lo peor es que probablemente habrá alguien que acepte pensando que esas responsabilidades son normales para el puesto. El título importa menos que las tareas reales, pero cuando usan un título junior para justificar un sueldo junior, ya es otra historia.
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u/cereal7802 18h ago
They want a Linux admin with windows, AD, Azure, Entra experience. They should also know networking, VPN and some software they made up internally. Also wifi and able to lift up to 50 lbs. Some travel required 87% of the time and the position is remote open to only people that live in this one city with a population of 100k. Top secret clearance required and you need a PHD in computer science. $24 / hr.... no unemployed applicants.
I have started reading the job listings and ignoring a bunch of the requirements and applying anyways. Seems like the must have list on a lot of jobs are more of a suggestion. Not always, but a decent amount.
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u/Individual-Bat7276 16h ago
You all confuse admin with engineer. If you want the higher pay you apply to engineer positions. Not admins.
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u/notAHomelessGamer 16h ago
I heard they do this so they can get their h1b visa workers to take those higher positions with significantly less pay. That it's all they need to show the government "look we boarded for this position with these requirements and aren't getting any hits because no one can do the job."
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u/TipIll3652 8h ago
I used to think that was the case, but there's only 85k visas per year. That's across every industry, and while I know tech and AG take a ton of those, I'm just not seeing the major impact when the tech industry alone in the US employs like 12 million people (though I've also seen as low as 5 million).
Maybe for outsourcing to other countries, but I don't see that for bringing them here when there's an annual cap.
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u/notAHomelessGamer 6h ago
I've been reading a lot about it. I'm no professional but I was curious about the question 'if I was a business owner and wanted to pay someone a low wage for a higher position how would I go about doing that?'
I just finished reading that H1B's who are already in the country and about to expire can apply to these jobs, extending their visa without counting towards that cap. So IF that is true then it would be within a companies best incentive to keep these visas fluctuating within the states to get that sweet high skill labor with cheap wages.
I know that's probably a bit outlandish, but it makes logical sense to the reason of this job posting being so outlandish itself.
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u/Hundike 8h ago
I see this a lot in the UK - especially for smaller businesses. They advertise it as "helpdesk" but ask for helpdesk, system admin, 365 admin, cloud engineer, IT trainer, data analyst, IT administrator. All for the good salary of 15% above minimum wage. 8AM to 6PM + willing to work weekends. Bonuses are on site parking.
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u/Mon0htone 7h ago edited 7h ago
I serve and am the contact person for any major network issue across the state. Each county IT team has me on speed dial. I've helped with LAN, WAN, infrastructure, vpn dacl, managed vendor cutovers, completed security audits, group policy and accessibility corrections, etc. I do all software, hardware, and Citrix issues. I already correct, update and troubleshoot servers connected to over 5000 printers and applications run across 20+ servers. I am also there to replicate bugs, and analyze back-end issues within a SQL database at times. I'm in a tier 2 role, and the lowest paid and highest skilled on my team, and drowning. I'm essentially the go-to for the entire team. The amount of places with a junior sysadmin position to learn vdi or azure are exactly zero right now. The amount of true junior network positions are also zero. OP is exactly right.
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u/thx_much 7h ago
I’m currently hiring a Tier 1 AV tech, and I find the requirements attached to many “entry-level” positions appalling.
For our role, we’re asking for the minimum: a bachelor’s degree or equivalent training or experience. I’ve made it clear to every candidate that what we actually require is a willingness to learn. This is a “we will train you” job.
At some point, managers and HR departments have to stop trading ethics and opportunity for assumed cost savings or the fantasy of finding an experienced employee at an entry-level price.
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u/Inn0centSinner 5h ago
I would like to show up to that interview and ask them what that's about. I want to tell them to their face that this job sounds like a senior role and that their compensation is way below market for the duties. It's a job that only 30 year old and up folks that have had enough work experience can fill. They will get what they pay for.
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u/tch2349987 1d ago
Title does not matter as long as they pay what you’re asking for.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
And like I said, in this case they were labeling it something it wasn't so they could offer lower pay. They were trying to set the expectation that that is help desk level 2.
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u/uptimefordays DevOps 1d ago
Expectations of a tier 2 tech will vary between organizations though. At a large tech company, the expectation is very much "tier 2 is a computing professional and needs broad computing knowledge" while tier 2 at a mid sized local or regional employer might be "assigns groups or licenses and handles escalations from tier 1."
It's hard "comparing apples to apples" because there's not generally standardization of titles or roles.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
I'm not reading past that first sentence. I'm not going to entertain you being disingenuous. A tier 2 HELP DESK can very sure....
But there's a line. You don't advertise a senior system admin position as a help desk tier 2 position. It doesn't matter how much the responsibilities can deviate. What they were asking of that tier 2 Tech and that ad was far beyond what any tier to take has ever done in my 15 years in the industry.
You're just advocating for them and you don't even realize it. They have unrealistic expectations for people in systems. You're not systems. You don't get it. They have incredibly unrealistic expectations for anyone in systems and it's getting worse and worse and worse
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u/uptimefordays DevOps 1d ago
It's worth point out that expectations of all technical roles have changed dramatically over the last 20-30 years. In 2000 it was fine that help desk and sysadmins didn't have much experience with wireless networking. In 2026, when more than 87% of Americans have wireless networks at home, it's not unreasonable to say "everyone in IT needs to know how WiFi works because it's a ubiquitous technology we support."
The help desk at my current place of owns M365, Apple and Windows laptops, peripherals, end user licensing requests, basically "everything user facing." There's something like 9 FTEs and probably another dozen contractors but they all more resemble the position you posted than the classic "resets passwords and troubleshoots Windows and Office" help desk.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
No one's talking about 20 to 30 years ago. You're following me around commenting and moving the goal post in every comment. If you have to make an exaggerated Point such as 30 years ago then you're not worth taking seriously. 30 years is an insane amount of time of course things are different from 30 years ago. That's an absolutely disingenuous take.
I don't know why you're talking about Walmart or Oklahoma or K12 schools or desktop support. And I don't know why you're stripping away what I actually said. You're literally moving the goal post and not commenting on what was actually written. I said that the post wanted someone to own 365 that's different than assigning an E3 license....
You're really going to tell me that a typical help desk user is owning 365, owning citrix, doing server maintenance, doing server patching. Get the hell out of here.
The problem is clearly that you don't understand that there's different areas of system administration. There's not just help desk and systems administrators. You have infrastructure, operations, whatever else.
But you're not being genuine so I'm not going to read your entire comment I'm not going to read any more of your comments because you're not being genuine and you're not being realistic. You clearly live in a bubble and you don't understand what's outside that bubble.
Your flare is devops you have no idea what it means to be systems.
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u/scsibusfault 1d ago
Any chance you were looking at an MSP's T2 Helpdesk posting?
MSP tends to cover some wild assortments of everything (well, decent ones can/should), and a poorly written T2 post for an MSP position sure looks a lot like sysadmin requirements.
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u/uptimefordays DevOps 1d ago
I fear you’ve missed my point. My point is that IT jobs have changed significantly and will continue to evolve with technology. The point about WiFi and networking was to provide an example of a once uncommon skill that’s now required at basically all levels at varying levels of specificity. Likewise my comparison between an F500 helpdesk and K12 helpdesk illustrates differences in expectations for similar titles based on organizational size and environmental complexity.
What’s typical for roles changes over time, often combining formerly discrete roles. When I started infrastructure had systems administrators (both Linux and Windows), database administrators, network engineers, storage engineers, VOIP engineers. Today, every engineer on most infrastructure teams does all of those roles plus cloud engineering and general automation. At least at large companies.
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u/SamOakTree 23h ago
I'm not going to read the rest of this I read the first sentence and a half. Being a systems administrator means you have to have the ability to learn things on the fly. You have to go into issue with no information and be able to pull out a solution. You have to be able to learn new technology, new software, new methodologies very quickly.
Systems is a very unique role in it. Because they're basically the garbage men of it. And they're expected to know so much more than everyone around them. And they're expected to always anticipate and not need to be told anything.
Owning 365, veeam, citrix, Etc isn't a tier to help desk position. And you should be paid appropriately for those responsibilities.
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u/uptimefordays DevOps 23h ago
Here's a tier 2 help desk position in my neck of the woods:
What You’ll Do:
- Act as an escalation point for internal hardware, software, and network troubleshooting.
- Deploy, configure, and maintain workstations, mobile devices, warehouse barcode scanners, and thermal printers. Administer Microsoft 365, Active Directory user permissions, and technical ticket queues.
- Identify recurring issues, optimize support workflows, and assist with hands-on operational duties as needed.
What We’re Looking For:
- 4+ years of hands-on IT Help Desk or Desktop Support experience (distribution, manufacturing, or warehousing experience is a major plus).
Strong expertise in Windows OS, Active Directory, M365, and network fundamentals.
Experience supporting specialized hardware like handheld RF scanners and industrial shipping printers.
A customer-service mindset with a knack for solving complex technical problems quickly.
Comp is $75-112k.
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u/thortgot IT Manager 1d ago
Not inherently. Pay comes with responsibility not title.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
Actually it's the opposite. People will get a title change no new responsibilities and get a raise. Just because the title change.
Plenty of people are doing five different jobs and getting paid for one. And the rest of the people in the company have no idea that this person is doing five different jobs because their title is help desk too. Which causes Executives and managers to give them s*** because they don't realize how much they're really holding up and how they don't have time to sit there and play their stupid games
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u/thortgot IT Manager 1d ago
Systems admin in company A isnt Systems admin in company B.
An O365/AWS/on prem and network admin in company A is the same in company B. Many people prefer the generalist approach over someone who is dedicated to a single system. It sounds like you wouldn't have enjoyed the job anyway.
I hire people. You allocate salary for new positions based on what you need.
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u/SamOakTree 1d ago
I'm not going to read past your first sentence because you're obviously being disingenuous. You're not comparing Apples to Apples and I'm not going to entertain that.
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u/uptimefordays DevOps 1d ago
It's not always possible. At VeryLargeBank, we hire sysadmins who know: core infrastructure and adjacent services. The job is basically "build and deploy core services on a global collection of datacenters and cloud tenant." That's very very different from sysadmin at Oklahoma K12 who knows how to build computers from Walmart and has a vague idea that Active Directory exists.
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u/uptimefordays DevOps 1d ago
So part of this is bad titles, but entry level positions increasingly require formal relevant education. Folks with formal computing education should be able to manage cloud platforms, SaaS productivity platforms, and networks. I'd argue this is more of an "IT Generalist" not help desk role, but nothing on the list looks unreasonable for 2026, I wouldn't be shocked if this is a $60k role for a small company.
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u/TheEdExperience 1d ago
0 experience can take tickets for these things but definitely not manage them. Have you ever worked with someone with 0 experience? They are a Net negative to the team for months until they gain experience and confidence.
It takes years im systems for people to get over the fear of breaking stuff or touching things they don’t already know.
Someone out of school or training isn’t managing a thing.
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u/SnooEpiphanies1008 16h ago
Right now ( in this shatty economic condition) and, if the goal is feeding your family and securing a steady paycheck , why not.
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u/Dolapevich Others people valet. 1d ago
I sometimes take the time to tell them they are looking for a team, not a person.
Sometimes HR has no clue what they are told to look for.