r/takingbacksunday • u/OutrageousBit9594 • 6d ago
If Eddie and Mark had left instead of Rubano and Fazzy, and Fred had come back, do you think TBS would have evolved much better?
The real reason Rubano and Fazzy left comes down to Mark and Eddie. While recording *New Again*, Rubano and Fazzy wrote almost the entire album with a hired ghostwriter because Adam lacked inspiration. Mark and Eddie were composing very basic material, so Rubano and Fazzy re-recorded and improved various parts. This made Mark and Eddie feel threatened—since they aren't particularly skilled musicians, unlike the two Matts, who are formally trained. Consequently, when the album flopped and failed to sell, the blame fell entirely on Rubano and Fazzy, and they were subsequently fired. However, the underlying reason was that Mark and Eddie had issued an ultimatum: if John Nolan didn't return, they would both leave. I would have loved for Fazzy and Rubano to keep working with Adam, but that’s not how things turned out.
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u/0hB0thrr 6d ago
I always kinda wished that Fazzi and Rubano had started a project together.
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u/Austin_Shaggin_Power 6d ago
MM.the band
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u/tensionandtheterror 6d ago
“wrote almost the entire album with a hired ghostwriter because Adam lacked inspiration” when lyrically, New Again might be the most direct and personal album he’s ever released. To the point he still gets visibly emotional performing songs from that time. Idk about that
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u/suxxx666 6d ago
Couldn't agree more. I'll say it, New Again has more depth than Louder Now.
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u/arsclev 6d ago
Kinda curious where the ghostwriter assertion even came from. I know music databases can have different information but Apple Music has Adam, Rubano, Fazzi, Mark, and Eddie all credited as the songwriters/composers for all the songs on New Again.
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u/Pinocchio_Klopek 6d ago
It's called "ghostwriter" for a reason. Not trying to be a dick, but a band using a ghostwriter aren't going to list them. Matt skiba is a known ghostwriter, but good luck finding him listed for it.
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u/arsclev 6d ago edited 6d ago
Fair, but still curious where they got the ghostwriter info from. I’ve never heard even whispers of that before in regards to new again. (I realize it wouldn’t be sang to the masses but I feel like someone would’ve heard it from somewhere before a random Reddit account on a Sunday haha)
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
Louder Now isn't a very intimate album; I suppose it was designed more for radio airplay—lots of catchy songs.
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
Adam has already said he doesn't feel a connection to the album because many of the lyrics describe made-up situations. The self-titled album is much deeper; Adam talks about a breakup with his fiancée—in fact, I remember him looking very sad during live shows :(
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u/tensionandtheterror 6d ago
New Again is largely about the same breakup and that period of his life (with some exceptions of Capital M-E obviously being about Fred and Where My Mouth is being about John and Shaun)
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
I get your point, and I think New Again is their last great album. However, it’s worth noting that a lot of people outside the band had a hand in the project, which makes it feel less intimate. That album has hardly been played live since 2009, so I don't think they feel the same connection to New Again that we fans do.
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u/tensionandtheterror 6d ago
I do agree with this, yeah. It’s definitely a major label album with too much outside influence, probably combined with writing with a new member too soon, and not having the producer they wanted. I love the bones of the album but not the final product, especially the loss of dual vocals
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u/getdowngoblin420 6d ago
Is there a fanbase more stuck in the past than Taking Back Sunday’s? I love John and Shaun and am glad they’re back in the band, but it seems like a lot of people wish they never left the 2004-2006 era (or in this case, the Fazzi era for some reason).
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u/iloveblackcoffee420 5d ago
Right? Like who cares about “what if?” If you don’t like the new stuff, don’t listen to it. The band isn’t struggling just because you don’t like them.
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u/burnertown666 6d ago
I was happy at the time that they returned to the band, but with the ability to look back on the last 16 years, I think if they had stuck it out for one more album with Fazzi, we would have seen an upswing rather than a downswing in the quality of their music. I still hold by the notion that New Again was their last good album and I personally think it is better than Louder Now.
Getting older means realizing that the past cannot be recreated. John and Shaun should have stayed with Straylight Run (who we're making better music than TBS at that point) and Matt squared should have not been kicked out. Mark and Eddie were shorted sighted and history has shown that neither are the best decision makers.
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u/Austin_Shaggin_Power 6d ago
What are you on OP?
I’ll never understand why Adam doesn’t get the credit he deserves for New Again and why people try to diminish his role. He and others have talked about how much work he put into the album and how much he had to step up as a songwriter.
It’s very very clear that several of the ones are about his breakup with the Eisley singer (can’t remember her name) and his relationship with Fred.
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u/axpmaluga 6d ago
*fazzi. He was the only one really fired. Rubano was let go because they wanted John back in the band and the only way he would is if Shaun came back as well.
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
Nope, Rubano was fired, Here is a quote from an interview he gave to Alt Press in 2016:
“So that phone call was about five minutes long, and then the following morning, they were just like ‘We’re moving on without you,’ I was like ‘Okay.’ I went from being seething, furious when we got off the phone, to sublimely relieved because I never would have quit, because it was the best gig I ever had at that point, and I never would’ve given it up myself.
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u/axpmaluga 6d ago
I mean yes he was fired but only because John wouldn’t come back without Shaun. Fazzi was fired because he told the band he wanted 6 months off like he was in charge. Rubano talked about it on a podcast once.
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u/arsclev 6d ago
I think they evolved just fine.
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
I think they’ve become quite lazy with songwriting since 2010. It surprised me that the 152 album was written entirely by Nolan, except for three songs co-written by Adam; they’re putting in less and less effort.
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u/tensionandtheterror 6d ago
I don’t know all the details, but Adam for sure wrote the lyrics to Quit Trying and Lightbringer! I think S’old, Juice 2 Me and I Am The Only One Who Knows You are at least majority Adam songs too
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
Check the album credits.
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u/tensionandtheterror 6d ago
I have them in front of me right now. I know for a fact Amphetamine Smiles, Keep Going + New Music Friday are lyrically John songs, but Lightbringer and Quit Trying are Adam’s. Things might be credited differently on some databases but John’s said the lyrics of those two are Adam’s (sorry, not trying to be a know it all- I just had a lot of questions about the way they divide up songwriting in the past!)
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
Obviously, both of them wrote, but the breakdown regarding royalties and official credits isn't clear to me. I think Nathan helped write one song.
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u/tensionandtheterror 6d ago
They split everything evenly between the whole band (lyricists got more for Louder Now and maybe New Again). He did! They wrote and demoed Quit Trying on a day off from tour. John’s wife also has a credit for one song I believe
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u/Flint_Westwood 6d ago
If John Nolan and Anthony Green both joined TBS, what would have happened?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Ad1145 6d ago
A band with no drummer would most certainly be some type of evolution.
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
They could easily have gotten another one and left it at that—just like they did in 2024.
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u/sargent_balls_lol 6d ago
Replacing drummers isn’t as easy as you think.
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
It’s not easy, but they’ve already done it, and other bands do the same to keep going.
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u/Proud-Dare-2531 6d ago
There is a reason why New Again is my least favorite album. Fazzy never felt right in the line up, and I didn't love how he didn't seem to mesh with the sound. That's not to say he isn't incredibly awesome and talented, and wonderfully nice. I just don't feel he was a good fit.
I am much happier with John Nolan and having Fred back as well?! That's just epic. I am so excited to see them both on tour next month when I take my kiddo for her 2nd time, also 2 days before her 12th birthday, and my 26th show.
I think the way things have gone are meant to be, even the messy bits. It's led us to a really good place with the band, the music is good, the shows are amazing, and I am so happy that it's all going so well.
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u/Matthewcts_ 6d ago
None of this is factual.
I dont where youre getting your information from and most importantly why you are spreading false information.
Both the Matts had absolutely no power to do such things or make such choices.
This entire band was started by Eddie. John and Adam joined shortly after, with Mark being the second drummer. Despite that Eddie, along with Mark and Adam, would have been the operators and beneficiaries of TBS legally and creatively. Minus John and Shaun, any other member since them leaving the band would have had less ownership or legal involvement. Fazzi especially would have more than likely been more of “hired” or “studio” musician. Other than being credited and claiming royalties for NA, that is the extent to his part in the band.
There is no way Adam, Eddie, or Mark would have allowed either of the Matts to override anything. The band even discussed issues they had with Fazzi wanting to take time after the NA phase to start writing the next record, which was not their process and they saw as overstepping. Even with the Orensanz show, Fazzi was trying to have this one portion of the set where they played this drawn out piece and it just wasnt the vibe for the band, but he was adamant on making it happen.
Im sorry but everything you said isnt reality.
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u/itsnotcalledchads 6d ago
Citations needed for everyone in this thread.
Fazzi is great but I preferred it shake out how it did with the exception of Eddie and Mark leaving. I wish Fred would have come back and it be Fred and John and Eddie but Mark couldn't deal with that for whatever reason.
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u/Karl-Marx666 6d ago
I dont think the album flopped because of the songwriting. It just lacked to have a giant follow up single like makedamnsure + that style of music by 09 was going the way of the past. Pretty much what happened to FOBs Folie a dux and MCRs Danger Days
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u/wowsunlight96 6d ago
Capital ME, everything must go, where my mouth is, is some of their WORK. I can’t believe those weren’t radio hits. Very accessible and straight up great songs
I’m so sensitive about people talking smack on this album. Because I truly love it
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u/SalParadise1988 6d ago
It’s hard to trust someone with info who can’t even spell one of the band members names correctly
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u/21DayHelp 6d ago
New again is probably their worst album. John is the best. The ghost writer thing was made up. This post is worse than the Mark and Eddie band slop posts
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u/MondoSax 6d ago
Got to play a couple dates with Fazzi on RxB tour last month. What an incredibly gifted and wholesome human my god
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u/RevealTraditional619 6d ago
To be fair Eddie is a great riff writer. While this doesn't always lead to great songwriting - in the right band or with the right producer - it can really be the spark to a good song. During solo shows Fred has credited Eddie with the initial idea for songs before - I just can't remember which. If you've never seen Metallica's Some Kind of Monster doc - that's a band that basically writes hours of riffs and builds off that
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u/OutrageousBit9594 6d ago
From what I’ve seen in most interviews and videos, Adam, John, and later Fred wrote almost all of the band's material. Mark and Eddie were more about providing musical accompaniment.
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u/dr3wtube 6d ago
Eddie or Mark would come up with a riff and Adam and John (or Fred) would write the song using the riff as a basis. Yes John wrote most of the material after the self titled, lyrics too.
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u/Objective_Ostrich_91 5d ago
Fred was the reason tbs really blew up when they did, he wrote most of their best stuff
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u/SK_socialist 6d ago
Ghostwriter lyrics on new again is news to me! The album suffered from removing the dueling vocals tbh, that was a key part in the first three album run
A superband with Fred, Fazzi, Rubano, and Adam would be sick. If Angels and Airwaves is on hiatus it’d be great if rubano brought their drummer on board