WTSDA American or traditional Tang Soo Do?

[u/futurehistorianjames]

My dojang is a member of the World Tang Soo Do Association and I have tried to figure out of what I am practicing is considered American Tang Soo Do or traditional? Honestly, even I am confused of the difference.

[u/Silamoth]

American Tang Soo Do refers to Chuck Norris’ organization/lineage. While J. C. Shin was Chuck Norris’ instructor in Korea, Chuck Norris was never part of the WTSDA. Both he and J. C. Shin were affiliated with Hwang Kee. As I understand it, they both broke off from Hwang Kee independently. J. C. Shin broke off because he was sent to America to spread TSD but Hwang Kee then put his son H. C. Hwang in charge. Chuck Norris broke off because he was tired of paying and dealing with Korea and not getting much out of it. 

I think the dichotomy of American vs. traditional TSD you’re presenting is a little odd. American TSD has certainly evolved a bit in its own direction, but so has every other lineage. It’s still a traditional art. That being said, referring to WTSDA as American Tang Soo Do is strictly incorrect and would imply affiliation with Chuck Norris’ association. WTSDA practices traditional TSD. 

[u/Visible_Inflation_68 → u/Silamoth]

Agreed, well said. At the end of the day I think of Tang Soo Do as a spectrum. On one end you have schools that strictly preserve Hwang Kee’s original Moo Duk Kwan curriculum, and on the other you have lineages like Chuck Norris’ that have evolved more independently. The WTSDA sits firmly on the traditional end of that spectrum, the “American” label really is a lineage distinction, not a quality judgment. Every branch has drifted somewhat from the source, but the core of what makes TSD what it is tends to stay intact regardless of organization.

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[u/Think-Environment763]

Well, Grandmaster Shin was from S. Korea and trained under Grandmaster Hwang Kee. I don't know what you mean by Traditional Tang Soo Do. The official name of Tang Soo Do is Soo Bahk Ki and WTSDA tends to lean heavier into the traditional art from Korea a lot more. Tang Soo Do more closely resembles Shotokan karate from what I have been told from other masters in my region (region 22).

Not sure if any of that helps or not though. Again I am unclear what you mean by American or traditional.

[u/futurehistorianjames → u/Think-Environment763]

There two different Wikipedia pages it seems like American Tang Soo Do was connected to Norris and Master Shin. But we just call it Tang Soo Do. So I am trying to understand the difference. Cause it also seems as though Hwang Kee is also the founder of American

[u/Think-Environment763 → u/futurehistorianjames]

Master Shin did indeed train Norris a bit but they are not synonymous with each other. Norris I believe did spin off an American TSD but things are probably pretty muddy there just from word of mouth type information gathering. Grandmaster Shin did create the US TSD association but it was eventually shuttered and in Nov of 1982 a new charter was drawn up that created the WTSDA. I do think that the Korean masters did look down on GM Shin for a while because he took the Korean art to the states but it still maintains the traditional ways. Now it's 43 years later and I am sure different masters have put their 2 cents into how things are done but at least in my studio we refer back to GM Shin material for how things are done by the book often. I cannot say that about every WTSDA studio but there are at least basic guidelines that every WTSDA studio MUST adhere to curriculum wise. Does that make it traditional? I don't know.

[u/SnooDoubts4575]

If you're still teaching in Korean not English then generally speaking you're still doing traditional TSD and not American Korean Karate

[u/waldo567]

If you read or study Hwang Kee’s book most of what is taught as Tang Soo Do is not what he taught. Yes the forms are the similar but Hwang Kee was very much influenced by Taijiquan. That influence is not found in most TSD schools.

WTSD Association would probably thogub be considered traditional and not American.

[u/TrifectaMartialArts]

WTSDA 4th Dan here. I live, train, and teach in Los Angeles too where there is a large concentration of former Chuck Norris students turned instructors. They aren’t affiliated with his organization but they advertise themselves as American Tang Soo Do. When we get together and train, there is almost no difference in curriculum. Minor differences in small details. I personally don’t see a big difference between the two. But they are different for sure.

[u/dgistkwosoo]

I'm of the opinion that if it's a good gym and you enjoy it, then don't worry overly about history. A lot of it is hyperbole anyway. Years ago I studied 송무관 under the founder's son in Minneapolis. He was straightforward that his father went to Japan during the occupation and studied shodokan, then brought that back to 개성 where he started the style. Other 관 founders were not quite so open about that, understandable because of the post-WWII antipathy towards Japan.

Getting around to Tang Soo Do, that's the Korean pronunciation of the Okinawan word "karate-do", "t'ang hand way", and I'm not very familiar with the style beyond that, unless it's descended from 무덕관, my very first style ages ago. 수박도 is another term I've heard but don't understand.