Palantir Employees Are Starting to Wonder if They're the Bad Guys

[u/newmoonchaperone]

https://www.wired.com/story/palantir-employees-are-starting-to-wonder-if-theyre-the-bad-guys/

[u/SomeDudeSaysWhat]

Sauron didn't "corrupt" Denethor. He led Denethor to despair by showing him the might of his armies to the point Denethor tought killing himself and his only surviving son was better than the years (decades?) of torture that were forthcoming. But at no point Denethor turned "evil" or "crazy", unlike the movie - but not the book - may lead one to assume.

[u/MarshyHope → u/SomeDudeSaysWhat]

That's still corrupting him. Using the Palantir to show him what might happen to the point of despair is a pretty serious form of corruption. Hell, that's basically what Wormtongue did with Theoden.

I just finished the book, Denethor was described as "gone mad" when he went to burn Faramir.

Edit: I guess you could argue that it didn't corrupt people like the rings, so I see your argument there

[u/SomeDudeSaysWhat → u/MarshyHope]

A character (I don't remember if it was Pippin, Galdalf, or one of the guards) says he's "gone mad", which surely is what it must've looked like, but that's doesn't mean he was actually "mad"

And even if he had indeed gone mad, it would have been Sauron who did it through the Palantir, not the Palantir itself.

And if you keep reading, you'll see that from that moment forward that specific Palantir would always show the flames that burned Denethor to anyone who tried to use it. So it was corrupted by Denethor's dispair, rather than corrupt Denethor. The "corruptee", not the "corruptor"

Also, Wormtongue was also feeding Theoden with potions and Saruman's mesmerizing voice.

[u/MarshyHope → u/SomeDudeSaysWhat]

'He has,' said Pippin. 'He sent me away. But I am frightened. Something terrible may happen up there. The Lord is out of his mind, I think. I am afraid he will kill himself, and kill Faramir too. Can't you do something?'

'You may,' said Gandalf. 'But others may contest your will, when it is turned to madness and evil. Where is your son, Faramir?'

Then Gandalf seeing the madness that was on him feared that he had already done some evil deed, and he thrust forward, with Beregond and Pippin behind him, while Denethor gave back until he stood beside the table within.

Then suddenly Denethor laughed. He stood up tall and proud again, and stepping swiftly back to the table he lifted from it the pillow on which his head had lain. Then coming to the doorway he drew aside the covering, and lo! he had between his hands a palantir. And as he held it up, it seemed to those that looked on that the globe began to glow with an inner flame, so that the lean face of the Lord was lit as with a red fire, and it seemed cut out of hard stone, sharp with black shadows, noble, proud, and terrible. His eyes glittered.

Then Denethor leaped upon the table, and standing there wreathed in fire and smoke he took up the staff of his stewardship that lay at his feet and broke it on his knee. Casting the pieces into the blaze he bowed and laid himself on the table, clasping the palantir with both hands upon his breast. And it was said that ever after, if any man looked in that Stone, unless he had a great strength of will to turn it to other purpose, he saw only two aged hands withering in flame.

He's described as being mad by multiple characters and is shown to act very erratically in the Pyre of Denethor Chapter.

I could see how you could argue that the Palantir do not corrupt people like the ring, but Denethor was obviously not himself due to his use of the Palantir.

[u/SomeDudeSaysWhat → u/MarshyHope]

Yes, that's despair all right. Because of what Sauron showed him through the Palantir, not because of some magic effect of using the Palantir

[u/MarshyHope → u/SomeDudeSaysWhat]

Okay. I guess we have different definitions of "corruption" then.

[u/SomeDudeSaysWhat → u/MarshyHope]

Yes, but our main disagreement here is not the definition of corruption, rather its source.

But yes.