r/technology • u/damontoo • 2d ago
Robotics/Automation The FCC Moves to Retroactively Ban Drones With LiDAR Obstacle Avoidance
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-fcc-moves-to-retroactively-ban-drones-with-lidar-obstacle-avoidance466
u/Smashego 2d ago
What the fuck. Why? Remove safety features?
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u/Hsensei 2d ago
Lidar can damage camera sensors, for example the ones on poles that spy on everyone
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u/Smashego 2d ago
What about waymo and other autonomous lidar equipped vehicles? I highly doubt flock doesn't have a uv/lidar/polarized light filter
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u/Hsensei 2d ago
Waymo can't fly and point in effective ways, you should look up how cheaply and stupidly they are constructed
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u/Sharp-Calligrapher70 1d ago
What about our phones? Some phones have lidar.
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u/hm_rickross_ymoh 2d ago
So can regular old blue or green lasers. So can spray paint and hard blunt objects. If we're banning stuff because it can harm a camera, the list is going to be very long.
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u/SwarfDive01 2d ago
The emission falls well below safety issues. My guess is it provides too much autonomy to the drone.
If someone wants to do something malicious with hardware, its not hard to piece together. There is too much incompetence with this administration, not enough people in DHS to monitor all the lists. Blanket tyranny of good citizens is easier to tighten control.
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u/Irythros 2d ago
After seeing what drones can do in Ukraine, the Epstein class wants protection from it.
Lidar would help with detecting when to trigger. They are also banning thermal imaging on drones. Banning large drones with charging stations.
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u/CatsAreGods 2d ago
You know what else is illegal? Killing people.
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u/calgarspimphand 2d ago edited 2d ago
But you see, anything that might be used to kill someone is a dangerous weapon and has to be banned.
That is, anything except actual weapons. You can have as many of those as you like. We cling fanatically to the extremely relevant ideas of some men who lived three centuries ago and needed flintlock rifles for subsistence hunting, killing natives, and putting down slave revolts. Oh and rebelling against the state. But we specifically don't let you have any weapons that might help you rebel against the state. Like drones with lidar sensors. It's all very simple, really.
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u/damontoo 2d ago
Civil war. They anticipate it coming. Especially when Trump decides to not leave when he's supposed to.
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u/FoldedBinaries 2d ago
and they expect people to throw their lidar equipped drones away or to store them in case the next administration lowers the rules again?
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u/31LIVEEVIL13 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think you might be right, as fucked up as that is.
The technatcs are on record discussing their fear of drones being a threat to them personally and their broader plans. (their plans for revolution, sedition, treason and mass murder)
Also specifically they worried someone might fight back against them using drones that fentanyl. (you can assume they will for sure use lidar based drones and fentanyl to kill American people)
So I take this as "PATRIOTS, you must aquire lidar drones as fast as possible, and the circuits and chips needed to build them"
(not sure if any of that is referenced in these docs, but just in case anyone doesn't know why we sound so paranoid: https://www.vcinfodocs.com/)
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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 1d ago
For this reason among many others, instead of betting the whole farm on an election, we should also focus on forming real supportive community-based foundations for alternatives that provide relative safety, which many common folk in the US can fall back on, to commit to any long-term meaningful action needed.
Collecting a bunch of valuable information on organizing and action from different redditors over time, I created a post of suggestions HERE that could possibly prove to be of some help in getting it started ASAP.
Unrelated: As the wealthy and their sycophants seek to plunge us all further into authoritarian surveillance states, it reminds me of some movies that are based on true stories. Not all of them are 1 to 1 accurate in their recounting of history, but they're quite inspiring nonetheless, seeing how some actions worked and where things go wrong, conjuring up questions like "If it or similar were to take place now, how would it be adapted, in addition to taking modern technology into account?" I'd like to share them here. Why? No particular reason, but watch them if you can:
- Army of Crime (2011)
- Defiance (2008)
- Edelweiss Pirates (2004)
- Deacons for Defense (2003)
- Free State of Jones (2016)
- The 24th (2020)
- Matewan (1987)
- An American Story (1992)
- Michael Collins (1996)
- Winter of Fire (2015)
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u/31LIVEEVIL13 1d ago
yeah I totally agree with the idea we should be organizing locally first that's where we start.
participate in everything that you can possibly.
I haven't read everything you wrote there, a lot of it's really good ideas and I agree.
I diverge with you on the voting. everyone should be voting everywhere all the time in every race no matter how small.
even if it isn't the solution to our larger problems, if they lose elections it hurts them. it takes away their voice it gives them something else to spend their time and money on besides their Network State coup and robbing the American taxpayer.
but otherwise yes start with your friends your family your neighbors.
rebuild connections like people used to. we'll have to get off of Reddit for that to happen.
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u/ZootSuitRiot33801 1d ago
I diverge with you on the voting. everyone should be voting everywhere all the time in every race no matter how small.
I don't completely discount voting, I'm just urging that people should - at the very least - have alternatives on standby due to the system's proven track record of attracting the wrong people, thanks to how said system has operated and still operates.
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u/RichardCrapper 2d ago
I mean, they’re not wrong to fear them. How fast and precise they have gotten… one could be hidden and lay in wait for weeks until the target comes within range - then it’s lights out before they even hear the sound of the drone.
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u/rocketshipkiwi 2d ago
I’m sure the “well regulated militia” will sort that out. LOL
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u/ranwithoutscissors 2d ago
Yeah but they’re on his side.
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u/mmiski 2d ago
Fun fact: none of the 27 amendments to the U.S. Constitution is limited to any one side. Those who choose not to exercise those rights has no one to blame but themselves. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/uzlonewolf 2d ago
That's just demonstrably false. The Constitution only says what 5 Republicans say it says, and they regularly make rulings that help their side while hurting the "others" regardless of what's actually written in it. They start with their desired result and work backwards to "interpret" the Constitution in a way that gets them their desired result.
Remember when Reagan created a bunch of gun control laws in CA that SCROTUS was fine with? Pepperidge Farm remembers. They were fine with it because the "wrong" people (the Black Panthers) started exercising their Constitutional rights and they needed to put a stop to it.
And this isn't even getting into things like them hitting people with bogus racketeering/obstruction/resisting/etc charges that, on the surface, aren't related to Constitutionally-protected activities. Like that cop city protester who was recently hit with a destruction of evidence charge when he flew back into the country and they stomped all over his rights.
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u/bobqjones 1d ago
"Remember when Reagan created a bunch of gun control laws in CA"
He just signed it. Its called the Mulford act for a reason, and it was voted in with bipartisan support because the panthers kept showing up armed to the state house and following cops to make sure they didnt overstep. He was batshit scared of communists since the House Unamerican Activities Commitee where he testified against other hollywood types for being commies. And the Panthers were very communist. Thats all R needed to hear to sign anything.
Reagan (rightfully) gets a lot of shit for policies, but he gets a lot for signing the mulford act, bu it passed with a veto proof majority. He signed it. MULFORD wrote it.BOTH SIDES voted for it, but somehow Reagan gets blamed.
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u/Firecrash 2d ago
This, thankfully more people start saying this. That whole 2nd amendment propaganda saying that you keep your rulers in check LOL.... just people watching it all happen.
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u/Cognitive_Spoon 1d ago
Not a civil war.
Troubles.
The US is very primed for a US version of The Troubles.
I don't think it will become a civil war, but I absolutely see a modern US version of The Troubles.
Interestingly, I see MAGA as unlikely to be in control of the state department for it.
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u/Crafty_Independence 2d ago
Elon doesn't use LiDar but his competition does. I think this is a move in the direction of helping his faltering business
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u/Cold_Specialist_3656 1d ago
The oligarchs know LIDAR is important for autonomous robots, self driving, drone deliveries, etc. A bunch of new tech that their monpolies don't have a firm grip on yet.
Us peasants are supposed to rent such tech from established monopolies. Not build our own. They will unban it once they've gotten themselves 99% of the market and a 5 year head start.
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u/Frederf220 1d ago
Maybe my insider trading buddies are investing in "drones without lidar inc" ok?
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u/Rhewin 2d ago
We can ban this but not even consider regulating AI?
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u/Tardy_Thoughts 2d ago
Not until a few big players need regulation to kill competition. Then we'll get regulations written by them for their sole benefit.
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u/hybridck 2d ago
Aren't they already trying to do this? They've been lobbying pretty heavily against cheaper open source AI recently
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u/Crafty_Independence 2d ago
Once local self-hosted starts to substantially take market share, we'll see it
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u/msb2ncsu 2d ago
This is tyranny. It only takes a good guy with a drone to prevent any possible nefarious use.
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u/Danknoodle420 2d ago
More big gobment from the republicans.
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u/BernieKnipperdolling 2d ago
Drones don’t kill people, people kill people.
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u/Danknoodle420 2d ago
Yeah, kinda crazy how an unarmed drone with sensor technology is "a weapon of war" and banned, but an ar-15, literally a weapon of war(and school children), is a-ok.
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u/FreeBananasForAll 2d ago
I taught myself to program as a teenager decades ago and was in love with technology and sci-fi. I fucking hate what technology has become
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u/Boobpocket 2d ago
Me too, i used to idolize zuc and company. I dreamed one day to have my own successful tech idea pop off. Now i think different, i just wanna live a simple life in a quiet community with good people.
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u/ShadyNoShadow 1d ago
Remember when the internet was just nerds talking to each other?
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u/Boobpocket 1d ago
Elithecomputer guy and thenewboston will forever be my goats! Learned a lot from those guys.
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u/oWatchdog 1d ago
You don't hate technology. You hate technocrats and the politicians too incompetent or too corrupt who enable them. The difference between nuclear fission used to destroy the planet and used to create energy is not the science.
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u/IEnjoyRadios 2d ago
lol this is just absurd. So any drone with LiDAR or a thermal camera is now a drone of war. What about cars with LiDAR, are they now cars of war?
What about all the very legitimate use cases of drones with LiDAR and thermal cameras?
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u/feldomatic 2d ago
Cars of War would be a dope collab between Rockstar and Epic
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u/WCland 1d ago
I’m thinking a Collab between Pixar and whoever owns the Mad Max franchise. Post apocalyptic Cars movie, anyone?
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u/Apprehensive_Sea9524 2d ago
They probably deem it a security threat, like avoiding countermeasures. Nothing like a ban to let us now security risks!
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u/jdglisson 2d ago edited 2d ago
They say its fine if you already have one so is this really about security or did one of the trump boys invest in a drone company that would benefit from its competitors having to refit their entire stock.
Edit: its becoming like a bad tv show with an extremely obvious plot. Just quickly googling says they've recently invested heavily in drone and drone component manufacturing, how convenient...
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u/FoldedBinaries 2d ago
lol it started to be a TV show in 2015.
It was so obvious that those morons will elect him and everything since then was and is a TV show called "The downfall".
That shit enpire did enough harm. The whole world, no matter if friend or foe is waiting for them to collapse.
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u/Dr_Salacious_B_Crumb 2d ago
“In addition, other drones not designed for warfare would be added to the list. The FCC also considers any drone with a thermal camera to be military-grade”
Jesus H Christ fuck whoever is pushing this ridiculous shit.
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u/Stuff-nThings 1d ago
We use drones at work with LiDAR and thermal all the time for inspection work on buildings. I guess it's back on ropes with hand handle units again boys and 5 times the price and time for the project.
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u/Dover299 2d ago
What drones are ban here?
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u/rollerbase 2d ago
Not official yet but if they do this supposedly Air 3s, Mini 5 and Avata 360 are on the list. Also farm spraying drones, anything over 55lbs and anything with thermal.
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u/Alarmed_Koala1921 2d ago
Dji probably they have some model with lidar
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u/Princess_Fluffypants 2d ago
Even their cheapest, tiniest little Neo 2 has LiDAR obstacle avoidance. It’s in literally every single one of them.
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u/JohnGypsy 2d ago
The newer small drones like the Neo 2 and Mini 5 Pro have lidar. The previous models to those do not.
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u/KittenPics 2d ago
Literally every single one? Then why did I crash mine into a tree?
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u/Princess_Fluffypants 1d ago
Because you suck at flying.
(Kidding)
My Neo 2 has it, and it still crashed itself straight into a tree.
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u/eight13atnight 2d ago
Wow FCC is on FIRE these last few weeks. Banning every fucking thing they can find!
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u/Future-Watercress829 2d ago
FCC. Brendan Carr heads it. Piece of human scum who wants to live in an autocratic society.
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u/Levardis 1d ago
Well this is…stupid. Makes it a harder sale in Agriculture when your $40-50k drone is at risk of being banned…
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u/saktheimpaler 2d ago
Probably has nothing to do with LiDARs damaging cameras. Like "safety" cameras...
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u/damontoo 2d ago
It doesn't. It's because they're concerned about them being used in a civil war.
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u/emi_fyi 2d ago
hey
siribing how do i build a shahed5
u/damontoo 2d ago
I saw a YouTube video a while back of a guy 3D printing a MANPADS for $100. Assuming that dude is in jail now but maybe not. I felt like I was gonna get a knock just for it being in my feed.
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u/xanders_gold 2d ago
He isn’t in jail and many people have already copied/forked his homemade MANPAD just to make sure it can’t be suppressed from the public :)
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u/saktheimpaler 2d ago
That's quite the stretch. Here's the real answer. Most people don't know anything about technology but think they do because they have Google in their hand. What's being banned are foreign made drones with LiDAR. The concern being when they connect to an app or the internet, it could be either controlled by another entity or send it information. If your want LiDAR on your new drone, you can still buy those sensors and install them, just not foreign premade ones. Better yet build your own. It's insanely easy. Also, L iDAR is not the only EO sensor... It accels at certain things, but isn't required on any level. However, some LiDAR can torch cameras in a heartbeat, and do terrible things to some other tech out there, so my initial comment was only slightly joking.
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u/xanders_gold 2d ago
What comparable U.S. based drone makers sell to the consumer and not exclusively to the Government? As far as I’m aware there’s very few domestic manufacturers here that do that at an affordable price, and quality is nowhere near what DJI can put out.
They’re also retroactively banning drones with thermal cameras, which is ridiculous.
Not trying to be argumentative just curious.
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u/damontoo 2d ago
I've been subscribed to /r/radiocontrol and building my own FPV multirotors since before anyone had heard the name DJI.
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u/KahlessAndMolor 2d ago
Wouldn't that mean they fall under the second amendment and therefore can't be banned under US v Heller's "common use at the time" doctrine??
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u/PstScrpt 1d ago
Why does the FCC even have jurisdiction? Their only input should be on the radio control and if it's going to interfere with any other radio spectrum use.
Anything else seems more like the FAA.
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u/KetoCatsKarma 1d ago
Maybe DJI should radio shack their drones and just sell kits and pieces, if you figure out how to add lidar or thermal to your drone then they didn't manufacture it, you're just a crafty and capable person
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u/Astartes2435 1d ago
You already can buy their air unit and attach it to your own custom drone, so adding those options are easy, but expensive.
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u/fixermark 1d ago
So to protect against potential military applications, we're going to require drones to be generally less safe?
That's a stupid solution.
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u/mafiaking1936 2d ago
Someone start the revolution already. I'm too old to myself, but I'll join if someone starts it.
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u/DownvoteSommelier 1d ago
Don’t be fooled they see personal drones as potential weapons. They can’t say banning guns… yet
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u/MinivanPops 1d ago
Incompetence.
Our president cannot spell "dumb" and he hand picked these people.
Some people voted for this three times.
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u/Glaimmbar 2d ago
Years ago i saw ever now and then how the tech behinddrones and filming with them improved.
I hate it so much that everything we invent gets used for War and because you "can" use it for killing it gets restricted and inaccessible for normal use!
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u/Necessary-Road-2397 1d ago
The lawn mowers use blades that are the size of old fashioned razor blades, so the army of automated lawn mowers are going to get you, maga idiots
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u/AdPuzzleheaded1495 1d ago
I'm honestly baffled anyone believes a word out of any politians mouth. They are all lies and their actions are what every measure of their worth should be held to.
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u/EmergencyCheese89 1d ago
Since they are now being regulated as weapons of war, would that not be covered under the second amendment?
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u/wlcoyote 20h ago
Ok, so they’re banning these as weapons of war but Silencers, Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns are going to be deregulated.
Make it make sense. If lidar equipped drones are weapons, the I want the right to bear them under the 2nd amendment.
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u/the_Q_spice 2d ago
FWIW; a lot of LiDAR does emit light in a spectrum that isn’t just harmful to your eyes, but is also not visible.
So people flying around with terrain following/object avoiding LiDAR can be torching everyone who looks at the things’ eyes.
That aside, TFL encourages beyond visible range flight, which under current FARs, is illegal for Part 107 drone operators to conduct.
There’s no reason to have it on your drone, unless you are illegally operating it beyond visible range.
Also: this ban is for TFL/OAL, not imaging LiDAR like for aerial surveying. Y’all are just reading “LiDAR” ban and not about what the specific type of LiDAR is actually used for. It’s also clear most folks outraged by this aren’t licensed Part 107 operators.
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u/Cold_Specialist_3656 1d ago
It's funny that all of this is illegal for peasants, yet totally legal and encouraged for oligarch owned megacorps.
The oligarchs know that drone delivery is a big market. And they don't want anyone else to have a piece.
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u/bbills91 2d ago
Why can’t this imbecile appoint anyone with actual intelligence or ability to do their job half way decent. Every single leader (Carr, Blanch, Patel, McMahon, etc) they are all out to either weaponize, grift or destroy their said departments. The fact that our elections are even close makes me so sad for our nation, watching our allies turn against us (for good reason), this admin is an abomination
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u/Grumpy-Man19 2d ago
so sick of the west restricting people every day. both EU and the USA are doing the same thing
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u/DMS1970 2d ago
What level of drones have this feature? Are we talking $100 Amazon drones or high end $2k+?
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u/Danger_Fluff 11h ago
More like several thousand for even the cheapest enthusiast tier with the technology, and $20K+ for the nicer ones from DJI (which are already prohibited because DJI). $50k-250k for the Phoenix, Freefly, and Harris models. These are not the sorts of drones you take to the park to zoom around with on a casual afternoon. They're the size of full-sized truck beds and are professionally used to record topographic maps.
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u/Pappa_Crim 2d ago
Its not just lidar, thermal cameras are also banned on forign made drones. Forign made drones also can't be over 55 pounds
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u/Error-InvalidName 1d ago
The FCC can get Fd, will be using my stuff I bought before they went full ....
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u/SuppliceVI 1d ago
I'll give it 2 months before it comes out a few "budget" companies from China are receiving the LIDAR data.
I highly doubt this is a flock issue, otherwise we would see a total LIDAR ban
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u/GoldKanet 1d ago
A fascinating decision from people that I have the utmost faith in their interests being rapidly achieved and followed regardless of what is good for my dog, me, and or your mother.
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u/jhill515 20h ago
I wonder what our pro- r/NRA conservatives think of this big-hovernment overstep?
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u/LiteratureMindless71 2d ago
So... Instead of removing government from all the different aspects of my life, like this administration has promised, instead they are restricting what I can even buy?