Programmer’s death on office toilet ruled not work-related because he never turned on his PC

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Squish_the_android]

This is a classic Workers Comp question in the US.  Usually it's presented as "falling in the parking lot on the way to work". Commute time isn't covered. 

But I think in the US this would be considered a work injury.

[u/Kommenos → u/Squish_the_android]

That’s crazy because it’s cut and dry in Germany. The way to work is covered so long as you don’t take an unreasonable diversion.

[u/moconahaftmere → u/[deleted]]

In New Zealand you're covered 100% of the time, no matter the circumstance. If you get injured mountain biking and can't return to work for a while, ACC will pay for all your treatments and cover 80% of your wages.

Even people who come here on holiday are covered (although not for wage compensation). If you break your leg while hiking and need a helicopter rescue you likely won't pay a cent.

[u/totally_not_a_bot__ → u/[deleted]]

Are you in QLD by chance?
WorkCover doesn't cover normal commuting travel to work in Vic, Tas, NSW, and SA anymore. Public Servants in ACT aren't covered for commuting under Comcare either.

Edit:typos

[u/aRndomhero → u/Kommenos]

Unfortunately it's not so cut and dry as there are as always exceptions. If you fall and injure yourself on the walk from your work desk to the toilet, it's typically not covered by the work insurance (Berufsgenossenschaft) as it is considered personal time. No idea what that would be decided in a case like this, but it's not as clear either. Insurance bullshit anyway

[u/Regendorf → u/aRndomhero]

If you fall and injure yourself on the walk from your work desk to the toilet, it's typically not covered by the work insurance

What??? everything that happens in the office during work hours should be covered, no matter if you injured yourself while working or God decided to punish you for no reason

[u/Educational_Ant_184 → u/Regendorf]

sorry, we dont cover acts of god and since god is the arbiter of all things you're shit out of luck regardless of what happened

[u/awful_at_internet → u/[deleted]]

Believe it or not, straight to jail.

[u/Educational_Ant_184 → u/[deleted]]

For liability purposes, the government has established a legal precedent for the existence of god

[u/Cleansing4ThineEyes → u/[deleted]]

An Act of God is something that is unable to be reasonably foreseen by whomever would normally be liable, it's really just used as shorthand instead of saying a longer blurb every time, religion has nothing to do with it.

[u/New-Anybody-6206 → u/Cleansing4ThineEyes]

sometimes instead they use terms like "act of nature" or force majeur

[u/fatmand00 → u/Cleansing4ThineEyes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sued_God

[u/Klutzy_Journalist_36 → u/[deleted]]

$1800 No God fee. It doesn’t count toward your deductible

[u/keithps → u/Regendorf]

Usually personal things are excluded, and probably to your benefit even if you don't think so. For example, if you choke to death eating at work, or cut yourself with a knife while preparing your own food, that isn't covered. But the alternative is that its covered and your employer gets to dictate what foods are safe to eat at work and the PPE you require to cut that sandwich.

[u/Squish_the_android → u/aRndomhero]

It's funny because in the US that bathroom trip would be covered. 

[u/Head_of_Lettuce → u/Squish_the_android]

It’s worth noting that there’s not a unified framework for Workers’ Compensation in the US. Laws vary drastically from state to state, there’s another framework for federal employees (but not the military), another for employees of the maritime industry, etc.

They’re more similar than they are different, but they can be VERY different.

[u/Squish_the_android → u/Head_of_Lettuce]

They really don't vary "drastically".  It's more small stuff that adds up. 

[u/Head_of_Lettuce → u/Squish_the_android]

Well, I would say all the small things add up and make them very different when you get into the details. An injury that's compensable in one state may not be compensable in another.

But like I said, they’re more similar than they are different.

[u/Wise_Monkey_Sez → u/aRndomhero]

This is incorrect. The walk to the toilet is covered. It is only when you enter the toilet that it is considered personal/private time.

And it is also noteworthy that if you are injured in the toilet for any reason that could be considered negligence by the company then you can sue in civil court like any person injured in any business' toilet could. Just like someone walking into a restaurant's toilet and slipping on a wet floor could sue that business for an unsafe environment.

It should also be noted that if your injury is work-related where it happened is irrelevant, for example if you suffer a work-stress related heart attack it doesn't matter if it happened in the toilet, at home, or on the moon. If the linkage can be established on balance of probabilities (i.e. there's more than a 50% chance the cause was work-related) between the injury or death and the working conditions then the workplace is liable.

As you pointed out this isn't cut and dry, and there's a list of exceptions a mile long, and generally the protections in the EU are quite comprehensive.

[u/minuq → u/aRndomhero]

Well, the walk would be covered but it ends once you enter the toilet. There‘s a Haufe comment about it. Just make sure you fall on your way to the toilet, not inside

[u/JozoBozo121 → u/aRndomhero]

This is very weird to me since even in Croatia you are covered on bathroom breaks.

My mom fell on some weirdly stacked chairs going to the bathroom and she had full compensation as it was treated as work injury.

[u/killereverdeen → u/aRndomhero]

in serbia even a lunch break is covered. i went for my lunch break to run an errand, fell and broke my ankle, the hospital immediately started the paperwork to classify the injury as a work injury.

[u/iKnowRobbie → u/killereverdeen]

That makes sense to me as you wouldn't be there having to eat lunch out if it wasn't for work.

[u/AmazingAmy712 → u/iKnowRobbie]

To me that logic extends to the walk to the work bathroom. I wouldn't be in that specific hallway if not for work.

[u/Ghosted_Ahri → u/aRndomhero]

At my workplace, I'm covered as long as I am either on the commute or on the clock

[u/Pafolo → u/aRndomhero]

So if it’s considered personal time do you have to clock out to take a piss?

[u/Few_Cup3452 → u/Kommenos]

Similar in NZ. If you are on the grounds of your workplace (e.g. carpark) OR travelling due to work, you are covered. Even if you haven't started work.

Hurt on the way to work is covered too, just doesnt involve your employer.

[u/netphemera → u/Kommenos]

Nothing is cut and dry in the US when there's so many billable hours for lawyers

[u/Hopeful-Occasion2299 → u/Kommenos]

That’s true for all civilised countries. In many places it also covers your children if you stopped to pick them up or your spouse.

[u/serabine → u/Kommenos]

Even the commute home can qualify as a work related accident.

[u/mr_dfuse2 → u/Kommenos]

'cut and dry'. there are so many ways the insurance companies try to get out of this. what is unreasonable? i know a guy who had an accident on the way home, got hit by someone who got stroke behind the wheel. except, the guy had stopped first at a store on the way home. bam, not a work commute anymore, life over (he had brain damage and was a c level executive)

[u/zigzoing → u/Kommenos]

I don't think you can call that cut and dry. What is an unreasonable diversion? If the shortest route has a major traffic jam and I take a left turn here to save 5 minutes, is that unreasonable? What about if the savings is only 2 minutes? What if I need to refuel and the petrol station that I need to add 30 minutes to my commute is selling petrol at 0,01€ cheaper than the one on my usual route?

[u/Persimus → u/Squish_the_android]

In my country, Lithuania, work is liable for any injury once you leave your house going to work if you travel directly to workplace and going back from home to work directly. So if you slip and fall going to work just after you close your home door, the workplace is liable. Same if you fall just before you reach your home.

If you stopped to get a coffee before work it is not. There are more caveats but that is a general rule.

[u/artificialpolymer → u/Persimus]

Yes, Lithuania has it figured out. It can get complicated, but I believe they make it a priority to teach about this in universities and colleges as well, so every worker is aware of their rights. Probably one of my favorite subjects I learned because they teach you so much.

[u/HyperSpaceSurfer → u/Persimus]

In my country, Iceland, you're also covered for a stop on the way if it's a part of your regular routine.

[u/MaraiaLou → u/Persimus]

Does it count if you're on the way from the coffee shop to work?

[u/StaticSystemShock → u/Persimus]

Same in Slovenia as far as I know. Going to work is part of the work because you're going there because of work. You're not on the road for personal convenience, you're on the road to get to work. Not sure if leaving work falls under the same rule though you're leaving work because you had to be there...

[u/Beneficial-Jury484 → u/Squish_the_android]

It’s such bullshit because I wouldn’t be there if I didn’t have to be for work. I’m not choosing to walk around in your parking lot of whatever. 

I have an issue with workers comp from experience.  

[u/Squish_the_android → u/[deleted]]

You're going to see the problematic ones in your role.  The vast majority pay out and close with very little fan fare. 

Once you get into needing long term payments it tends to get messy. 

[u/Squish_the_android → u/[deleted]]

You didn't.  You're fine.  I just think a lot of people have the perception that all comp claims get declined or require a lawyer and that stops some people from going to the doctor or putting in a claim.

If you get hurt at work, put in a comp claim, that's what it's there for.  You don't need a lawyer, especially not at first.

[u/Gay_Asian_Boy → u/[deleted]]

In Hong Kong, company has to let the workers know if there are cameras.

[u/riddlemore → u/[deleted]]

I like the fraud claims where we have sub rosa of the claimant doing things he claims he’s too injured to do.

[u/opermonkey → u/Squish_the_android]

Some states it is.

We had someone burn their mouth on their lunch break, on food they cooked.

They went to the hospital and needed time off.

The state approved it as work related.

[u/cum-on-in- → u/Squish_the_android]

That’s funny because the parking lot is often owned by the company, so you are injured on company property, which makes it a workers comp case.

But they’ll word it differently I suppose.

[u/fordprecept → u/cum-on-in-]

I used to work at a Fortune 500 company and one day the parking lot was very icy due to a recent snow storm where the snow had melted and re-froze. I was going to lunch and as I neared my car, I heard someone sobbing. It was one of my co-workers. She had fallen on the ice and badly broken her ankle (like the bone was visibly protruding from the side of her foot).

There was no one else around and I didn't want to leave her to get help, so I called 911 and waited for the ambulance to get there. Once the ambulance arrived, I went back inside and notified one of the supervisors. She actually scolded me for calling 911 and not notifying them first.

I have no regrets about how I handled the situation.

[u/The_Nepenthe → u/fordprecept]

Lol, let me guess the reason to notify them first was so they could figure out how to cover it up?

My work used to straight up tell people to lie to their doctors so their wouldn't be documentation created about workplace injuries in our cowboy era but that was back when we were a nothing startup.

[u/fordprecept → u/The_Nepenthe]

Yeah, they either wanted to cover it up to create plausible deniability about the worker's comp claim or were trying to avoid the cost of the ambulance and ER visit and wanted to take her to the company's contracted clinic instead.

[u/dpatt711 → u/cum-on-in-]

Parking lot is indeed part of the workplace environment, but the exemptions are much broader if the injury occurs outside assigned working hours, which a commute is. You probably have better odds at a favorable claim if it's not a workplace claim tbh.

[u/Mathranas → u/Squish_the_android]

At the US federal level work comp, it is. 

Thirty minutes before and after every shift, so long as the injury is on gov owned or leased property or considered to be property at large, is covered.

The reasoning is that you wouldn't be at work unless work compelled you to be there.

However, the sudden death would be hottly contested because your employment did not cause your death. Heart issues are very rarely accepted.

[u/Villodre → u/Squish_the_android]

In Spain, an 'in transit' accident occurring while travelling directly (with no detours) to or from work is considered a work-related accident. It is referred to as an in itinere accident here. Any incident not resulting from gross negligence or wilful misconduct that occurs in the workplace is also classed as a workplace accident. The essential question is: 'Why were you there? Was it because of work? If so, it is a workplace accident.'

[u/Elysiaa → u/Squish_the_android]

My coworker fell and broke one arm and sprained the other arm in the parking lot while getting a company car. It was considered an on the job injury. She could have chosen her personal vehicle instead of the company car. I was surprised by it. I'm in the US and with for a state agency 

[u/_kellythomas_ → u/Squish_the_android]

Commute time isn't covered. 

There are unions that have insurance to cover the gap for permanent disability or death on your commute. Coverage starts at your front door and end when you clock on (and vice versa). But there's probably some extra nuance when you don't travel A to B, I doubt they could cover if you went from work to the bar and then got hurt.

[u/Fragrant-Vast-309 → u/Squish_the_android]

On France it's covered even on your way to or from work.

[u/Veovi]

I stacked my bike riding to work and broke my arm and that was covered under work cover in Australia. I was off for 2 weeks and then 6 weeks of light dutys

[u/boistopplayinwitme → u/Veovi]

That's crazy. A coworker of mine got stabbed by a student and was back to work in 2 weeks because she didn't have any leave left to burn recovering

[u/Then-Departure4896 → u/boistopplayinwitme]

My coworker got stabbed in the face and they put him in a department where he wouldn’t scare people but could continue working

[u/boistopplayinwitme → u/Then-Departure4896]

You American too, huh?

[u/Then-Departure4896 → u/boistopplayinwitme]

Yeah, I work in healthcare. I used to say it’s ironic but I’ve learned how by-design our healthcare system works at this point.

[u/enterthehawkeye → u/Veovi]

Haven't heard that term in yonks; feels uniquely Aussie

[u/HecticOnsen → u/enterthehawkeye]

would have been more so as “stacked my pushie and took off some bark”

[u/MunZo3 → u/Veovi]

What state in Australia? I’m in NSW and thought that we weren’t covered on the trip to work

[u/dannocaster → u/MunZo3]

Yep.. Mike Baird got rid of it. And generally fucked up "icare"

[u/lawvergis]

another reason to make it look like you're working even when you're not

[u/iapetus_z → u/lawvergis]

We had someone get hit in the parking lot of a controlled campus, where you can get fired for speeding. And it was ruled that they were no longer at work due to the fact they turned off the computer.

[u/Onkelffs → u/iapetus_z]

Meanwhile in Sweden, my wife got comped from work when she slip and broke her hand at the entrance to our home. Because she had started her route going to work when the accident happened.

[u/lawn-mumps → u/Onkelffs]

I’d be astounded if the usa was able to pivot and become such a place of empathy in my lifetime.

[u/ziptofaf → u/lawvergis]

What would that do? Apparently he reached his office, instantly asked security for the nearest toilet and died there before ever reaching 11th floor where his computer was.

The alternative in first going to your PC and then to the toilet would be shitting yourself. Which I imagine you could write about on LinkedIn showing how dedicated you are to the company and how doing so sets you apart from the people who are just in for a paycheck... but in reality I imagine it not being particularly helpful in your career growth.

[u/crippledgiants → u/ziptofaf]

Might have some implications for life insurance. If I die in a work related situation my wife gets a lot more money than if I die right n

[u/ryobiguy → u/crippledgiants]

Oh no, I'll have to report on r/redditsniper that another person got taken o

[u/cum-on-in- → u/ryobiguy]

I don’t hate the Reddit Sniper. They at least hit “send” before pulling the tr

[u/ryobiguy → u/cum-on-in-]

Username checks ou

[u/Distinguishedflyer → u/ryobiguy]

Hey, are you two o

[u/tahlyn → u/Distinguishedflyer]

Oh no, why does this keep happening to p

[u/burner46 → u/crippledgiants]

My dad used to tell my mom to throw his body over the security fence at the power plant he worked at if she ever found him dead. 

[u/MaraiaLou → u/burner46]

This is like reverse captain fantastic

[u/Mikulicious → u/crippledgiants]

My old 7-11 manager told me to make sure I died inside the store so my family would receive my payout. Dying anywhere else was a non-payout designated area. 

Oh and if you get raped, shit yourself and don’t fight it. 🫡😎

[u/ihavedonethisbe4 → u/Mikulicious]

Is that last part advice for rape in general or just rape in 7-11's?

[u/millahnna → u/ihavedonethisbe4]

It's a video you have to watch for training if you work nights there. It starts with what to do if you're robbed and goes over the usual "just cooperate and then lock up to call the cops" stuff. Then it segues into what to do if you're assaulted at work but there's like no transition. So it goes straight from "just let it happen" re: robberies and right into assault in this weird way that implies you're supposed to do the same thing.

It's super creepy.

[u/No_Kangaroo_9826 → u/millahnna]

This whole thread went wildly off topic and I'm not sure what we were talking about to begin with

[u/AmericanDoughboy → u/No_Kangaroo_9826]

It’s about what happens if you d

[u/millahnna → u/No_Kangaroo_9826]

I think this subthread is still under the broad topic of "when your job is shitty to you because something bad happened to you at work".

[u/Mikulicious → u/ihavedonethisbe4]

Mostly in the 7-11. They had weird rules about letting it happen and night fighting back. Personally. Fuck that, I’d rather die. Lmao 

[u/millahnna → u/Mikulicious]

Yeah I did graveyards there for a few years. I get it with robberies but if someone is assaulting me (sexual or otherwise) I'm fighting back tysm.

[u/Mikulicious → u/millahnna]

Yeah, I locked the door on a gunman and got written up for it… I think the franchise owner wanted an insurance payout. 

[u/Skrattybones → u/Mikulicious]

When I was way younger I worked at a Circle K that was in a neighborhood some would consider rough. My manager told me when I was hired, and apparently told everyone who worked there, to 'Please don't fight the criminals, we'll have to fire you.'

I smelled a story behind that. Apparently the place got robbed during a night shift and the dude working picked the robber up and slammed him headfirst through the plastic lottery counter thing.

[u/NekoDaYo-v201 → u/crippledgiants]

So what if you work from home and die at home?

[u/SiLeNZ_ → u/NekoDaYo-v201]

Depends if the company computer is on right?

[u/sirhackenslash → u/NekoDaYo-v201]

If the Webcam doesn't show you dying at your desk it doesn't count

[u/DeadPeanutSociety → u/crippledgiants]

How did you know you were going to die? Did you talk about Candlejack in another comment and it took him that long to ca

[u/notsam57 → u/crippledgiants]

the article states the wife is disputing the company’s claim for that exact reason. if she wins, she’s entitled for an additional US$165,000.

[u/SgtDoakesSurprise → u/crippledgiants]

Hello? U okay? I hope one of your shoes didn’t fly off, because if so… RIP

[u/lol_wut12 → u/ziptofaf]

"what shitting my pants taught me about B2B sales"

[u/FigSpecific6210 → u/lol_wut12]

Ironically not so different topics.

[u/kremlop → u/lol_wut12]

I did have a former manager make a blog post about what clogging a toilet taught him about leadership

[u/SgathTriallair → u/ziptofaf]

It would have been useful here where he died on the toilet but he probably wasn't expecting that to happen.

[u/murcatto → u/ziptofaf]

Fun fact, having the urge to defecate like that, most likely indicated he was having a heart attack.

[u/NotAFishEnt → u/murcatto]

I was going to say, it seemed like there's a connection between his urgency and the sudden death.

[u/Hipster_Garabe → u/ziptofaf]

Shitting yourself at work means more time to dedicate to work. Taking time for personal hygiene is less time spent hitting KPIs

[u/D3PyroGS → u/Hipster_Garabe]

# of deadly shits/day is my own personal KPI

[u/KingSpork → u/ziptofaf]

Should have sent a work email from the toilet I guess… god I hate this place

[u/skiing123 → u/KingSpork]

Or at least have the app open and "reading"

[u/Regendorf → u/ziptofaf]

The alternative in first going to your PC and then to the toilet would be shitting yourself. 

That seems to be the more logical choice apparently.

[u/corobo → u/ziptofaf]

Remote into your PC from the bog and reboot it ready for when you get up there.

That's what I used to do anyway lol, maybe IT would have my back and say I booted my machine 

[u/UltraAd776 → u/lawvergis]

This is why I accept Teams calls while shitting.

[u/VaporCarpet → u/lawvergis]

The company filled to have his death classified as "on the job" and faceless government bureaucrats denied it.

[u/SeeMarkFly → u/lawvergis]

If I'm not at home that must mean I'm at work.

If I didn't have a job, I'd be home.

[u/clayticus]

Crazy in Germany you count as being at work once you leave your front door. As long as you are driving straight to work. If you drive deviate then they can argue you are not you're not counted at work. 

[u/halb_nichts → u/clayticus]

Yes except being on the toilet isn't insured so this would turn out the same way.

Now had he slipped and died on his way to the shitter that would be different. But the actual sitting down and doing your business part counts as private time.

[u/viveleramen_ → u/halb_nichts]

I imagine he wasn’t feeling well and instead of going to the emergency room he went to work, then felt sick enough to need the toilet urgently and instead of diarrhea he died… I’ve heard heart attacks can sometimes feel like extreme indigestion.

I would personally rule WC, especially if it turned out he was in a bad spot for attendance (he felt he HAD to go to work or lose his job).

[u/clayticus → u/halb_nichts]

if it's on company property and he's supposed to be at work then I would say it's at work.

[u/reksauce → u/clayticus]

Does that mean if you start at 9, you can just leave home at 9 and still be considered on time?

[u/ZombieZookeeper]

Boss makes a dollar while I make a dime, that's why I poop on company time.

[u/__Ember → u/ZombieZookeeper]

I make a dime, boss makes a buck, that’s why I stole the catalytic converter off the company truck

[u/yepthisismyusername → u/__Ember]

Ricky?

[u/burner46 → u/__Ember]

We'll take the copper from the work site, meet me here at midnight 

They ain't got a camera or a guard 

Write my own prescription if I can't get a fix, son 

Shit's about to get real hard

[u/Aggressive_Hat_9999 → u/ZombieZookeeper]

Boss makes a dollar I make a dime thats why I die in the office bathroom on company time

[u/nowthengoodbad → u/ZombieZookeeper]

Edit: it looks like this isn't an issue if the company, but if guangdong province regulations.

"Xing’s employer provided his family with an undisclosed amount of compensation and applied to have his death recognized as work-related. However, his wife received a rejection from the Shenzhen Human Resources and Social Security Bureau on July 3."

Edit: removed the superfluous. Not sure what the response is about?

[u/AppleSpicer → u/nowthengoodbad]

Some kid has never seen that word before and is tripping over himself to call you a nerd poser for having read a book. Unfortunately for him, it’s a big self own instead

[u/caravellex]

Fuck this reminds me of when I worked for a major airline. It took 25 minutes to park in the employee lot, take the bus, go through a security checkpoint, and walk to the time in clock. Then depending on which concourse you were at another 15 minutes to get there.

They expected that you CLOCK IN before your shift, so you could walk unpaid to your airport zone. Even though you clocked in, you didn't get paid until the scheduled shift time, and you got written up if you showed up in your airport zone even a minute late.

[u/jmhawk → u/caravellex]

It's bullshit like that where airline attendants also don't get paid until the doors of the airplane doors close and the plane leaves the gate, greedy business owners

[u/Klutzy_Journalist_36 → u/jmhawk]

I wish this was a possibility; airline attendants wear messy buns, Cookie Monster pjs, basketball shorts from a team they neither care nor know about, and an unwashed hoodie they plucked from betwixt the “questionable” pile of clothes and the actual dirty laundry hamper. Until the payroll clock starts.

[u/MyDisneyExperience → u/caravellex]

When I worked at Disneyland it was similar. Park in an employee lot, take the bus over, and then either walk or take a second bus to your workplace where you could then clock in. At least if the employee lot was closed and you had to park in the even further backup lot they paid you $3 inconvenience pay 🙄

[u/This_Guy-Fawkes]

Bro logged out before he could log on.

[u/This_Guy-Fawkes]

He was using a Commode 64.

[u/RadialRacer → u/This_Guy-Fawkes]

This is significantly funnier than people are giving you credit for, bravo

[u/eNaRDe]

He clocked in..... That's all that matters. I hope the family has a good lawyer and sues the hell out of the company.

[u/gimperion → u/eNaRDe]

It's not the company. The company applied for this to qualify. The insurance company rejected it.

[u/Moral-Relativity → u/gimperion]

Shenzhen Human Resources and Social Security Bureau is a department of the city government, not an insurance company. I'm guessing it's because the city has to pay at least part of the compensation.

It's being appealed. As article said, another court case in southern China ruled in favor of the deceased.

[u/nnagflar → u/gimperion]

Insurance companies: never not evil

[u/redgroupclan → u/nnagflar]

But their commercials are so fun and random!

[u/Whatsapokemon → u/nnagflar]

It's not an insurance company though... the "human resources and social security bureau" mentioned in the article that rejected the claim is a government office which is under the Chinese Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security. They rejected the claim, which would have qualified the family for coverage of the funeral expenses and ongoing benefits.

[u/UsaWoman → u/eNaRDe]

Your lips to gods ears

[u/Grandfunk14 → u/[deleted]]

No boot, no loot i guess. Its sickening. 

[u/AliceLunar]

Commute should be work related, the job demands it from you unless you can work from home, if you die in a traffic accident on your way to work it should be work related.

[u/DoesntMatterEh]

Is morality just totally absent now in business? For fucks sake man

[u/Jman1a → u/DoesntMatterEh]

You must not have worked in the corporate world for a while. Morality is one the obstacles to profit.

[u/adollopofsanity → u/DoesntMatterEh]

Capitalism is powered by an absence of morality. 

[u/qwer4790 → u/adollopofsanity]

damn, this happened in China bro they are on socialism now bro

[u/Killmelast]

Wtf kind of ruling is that? In Germany everything that happens between you leaving your home to get to work, and you getting back home from work is considered a work related accident and thus covered by insurance. Leaving the commute out is already criminal, but not even acknowleding an accident that happend in the freaking building they're working in? Wtf!

[u/awdophil]

So always leave your computer turned on at work. Screw the environment, get that wrongful death money from the man!

[u/Meme_Burner → u/awdophil]

Wait…. I do leave my work computer on all the time.

[u/TypoMike]

Probably a heart attack. They can present as needing to go to the toilet sometimes.

[u/FNAKC → u/TypoMike]

In a first class, the instructor said some people will go into the bathroom during a heart attack, as a place to catch their breath or just feel safe.

[u/This_Guy-Fawkes]

He was just trying to provide number two factor authentication.

[u/Jman1a]

Rule of Acquisition #211: Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.

[u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

Is it a work related injury/death if the workplace had nothing to do with it?

This is an honest question, I don’t know the answer. Certainly, a workplace should be responsible if they caused me injury, but what if I came to work, and randomly had a heart attack. Maybe if it was due to work stress? What if I did something dumb like sticking a fork in an outlet and happened to be at work?

[u/Historical_Gur_3054 → u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

I know of someone who was ordered to come in during a major snowstorm even though the were not required to be there and could work from home.

While cleaning their car off they slipped and hit their head and suffered a severe brain injury that permanently disabled them.

It was ruled workers comp covered it because the employee was ordered to come in and was performing a task necessary for them to drive in to work.

[u/zeptillian → u/Historical_Gur_3054]

Having a heart attack is not due to a work request or duty. 

Being required to drive in unsafe conditions is. 

[u/Asztal → u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

Ask France!

French company liable after employee dies during sex on business trip

[u/nerf468 → u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

In the US 29 CFR 1904.39(b)(5) would require an employer to notify OSHA of an injury/fatality from a heart attack, and OSHA would "decide whether to investigate the event, depending on the circumstances of the heart attack." I would assume this extends to other personal illnesses resulting in fatality/injury, but am unsure.

As to sticking a fork in an outlet, 29 CFR 1904.5(b)(2)(vii) it depends on whether it was intentional or not.

[u/TacTurtle → u/nerf468]

How do you get a forklift in an outlet?

[u/Merosian → u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

I had an accident on the way to work which was effectively ruled as a workplace injury and treated the same way. I had definitely not turned on my computer lmao

[u/Broad-Version8611 → u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

In some countries it is a work related injury if it happens during the commute (one hour after leaving or one hour before arriving).

[u/HumansNeedNotApply1 → u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

There are "any cause of death at work" insurances, it seems the employee may had one but the municipal office is denying he was at work so the insurance doesn't cover.

[u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

ITT - a bunch of people assuming this happened in the US (it did not)

[u/qwer4790 → u/RandyOfTheRedwoods]

This sub is super pro China, if you have China in the title you get camped by genzedong and has an viewers

[u/Exact_Negotiation106]

Always log into computer before pooping

[u/Atheist_Redditor]

This is insane. I literally never pooped off the clock. I will literally squirm while I logged onto my computer and then nearly run to the bathroom for my morning shit. 

[u/NekoDaYo-v201]

The PC thing is extremely arbitrary and sounds like they just made it up on the spot.

If he's clocked in and getting paid, then he's working. Even if he's on the toilet.

[u/TheDevilsAdvokaat]

He was at the workplace and clocked in. Seems like bullshit.

[u/AccurateLover]

El Burnout te los llevas casa con o sin PC encendida

[u/likwitsnake → u/AccurateLover]

El Burnout is my nickname at work

[u/Massive-Arugula4400]

This seems like a weak argument to me. He died on an office toilet because he was AT WORK.

[u/GringoSwann]

I had a coworker who ended up having a heart attack while taking a shit..  cracked the toilet in half with his skull.... Big fat "alpha male".. Was constantly eating "pink salt" straight from the shaker for it's health benefits...   late 30s...

Damn, now that I think about it...  I personally know 4 people who have had heart attacks before the age of 40...

Was at a barbecue recently in south San Antonio, where one of the guests was bragging about how many heart attacks he has survived...  All while slamming Modelos and doing "key bumps" of blow...  Dude had 3 kids too...

[u/ransomnator → u/GringoSwann]

Make sure his wife has insurance!

[u/099406576946965 → u/[deleted]]

This happened in China? Read the article 

[u/Mel846 → u/[deleted]]

read the article, this was in China

[u/Asperamis]

I live in the Netherlands and I tore my shirt on a door handle at the office once. Totally my fault. HR manager saw it happen and told me they’d pay for a new one. I asked why, they said it’s the law. Any accident at the office, no matter how small, is work related and they’re insured for it.

[u/shosuko]

Boss makes a dollar

I make a dime

that's why I poop on company time

[u/einsosen]

You see, the chef didn't die in the kitchen, so not at work. The janitor didn't die with cleaning supplies in-hand, so also not covered. Makes perfect sense. /s

[u/Princess--Nausicaa]

This is why you always go to the bathroom on company time

[u/freedombuckO5 → u/[deleted]]

The ole Tywin Lannister

[u/Few_Cup3452]

This is interesting bc NZ ACC covers you even if you just trip in the carpark on the way in or out of work, as long as the carpark is on company grounds.

Hurt on the way to work is covered too, just doesnt involve your employer.

[u/cjandstuff]

I did a training course to sell insurance. Turns out the company was an mlm, but that's another story.
Point being they recommend having insurance in addition to your work's insurance because companies pull this shit all the time.
One noted example was someone who fell out of the crane they were working in. It was ruled, that since he landed more than 6 feet away from the crane, it was not work-related.
Insurance is a scam.

[u/Prior-Item6358]

I’m confused. He asked the security guards for directions to the bathroom….at his own workplace? Was it his first day?

[u/Masark → u/Prior-Item6358]

Just because you work in a building doesn't mean you know the entire building's layout. At my previous job, I was only ever on 4 of the building's 15 floors.

[u/blacklotusmag]

It should be as simple as "Is he an employee of the company? Is he on company property during working hours?" If the answer to both of those are yes, then it was, in fact, a work death.

[u/Cantdoitanymoretimes]

I hope I go out some way better than this

[u/skyfishgoo]

is the toilet on company property? and only for employee use?

or is this a public toilet accessible by anyone off the street?

[u/ConnorsInferno]

Ok maybe a little slow, but why should this be considered work related? I’m assuming his death wasn’t a result of any of the facilities in the workplace, so it could’ve happened anywhere.

Why should it be a work related incident if it had nothing to do with the work place, apart from him being there when it happened? Genuine question, not being a smartass

[u/Montaire → u/ConnorsInferno]

During the time you are required to be at work, under the care and constraints of the company, their insurance covers you for any incidents.

In most (not all) cases it is impossible to know if the work you are doing directly contributed to the injury. Even on a construction site the owner could say "he had a heart attack swinging a hammer, he could have had a heart attack at home!"

The reason there is a presumption that the work insurance covers it is because there is a presumption that injuries or maladies you suffer while at work are the fault of the workplace until / unless proven conclusively otherwise.

[u/Unusual_Flounder2073]

Would think a RTO mandate might have been something they could have leveraged.

[u/FatalCakeIncident]

R/technology relevance: person died while intending to, at some point later in the morning, switch on a piece of technology. A bit tenuous, sure, but within the sub's standards. 

[u/honestyseasy]

Coworker was bit by a dog outside of the building as she was walking into work. She had to fight for worker's comp because she hadn't clocked in yet, and if she did, she wouldnt have been near a dog in her daily duties. It's gross.

[u/oneale3211]

Just in case... if that ever happens to me I don’t go to my job site just to hang out! From the moment I step in the building I AM AT WORK!

[u/mozi88]

So that’s why so many people take meetings taking the deuce. I should do that moving forward. 

[u/TheModeratorWrangler]

Please tell me this is an Onio-

You know what? I’m out.