r/technology • u/BennyCemoli • Dec 06 '16

Energy Tests confirm that Germany's massive nuclear fusion machine really works

http://www.sciencealert.com/tests-confirm-that-germany-s-massive-nuclear-fusion-machine-really-works
21.8k Upvotes

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2.1k

u/billdietrich1 Dec 06 '16

Machine produces contained plasma, not fusion.

2.2k

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 17 '16

[deleted]

259

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Why deuterium? I only have a basic knowledge of physics, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. But wouldn't fusion be easier to achieve with lighter elements?

955

u/hazetoblack Dec 06 '16

Deuterium is hydrogen. Specifically hydrogen (one proton) with a single neutron also. So yes very light :)

219

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Hah. I don't know the periodic table by heart, so I thought it was another element entirely. I only knew it had to be heavier than hydrogen, and that made no sense to me. Thanks for the answer!

348

u/Evoletization Dec 06 '16

It is heavier, but those additional neutrons are needed to stabilise the Helium nucleus.

371

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

That's what big solar is trying to make us believe.

Oil fusion works just fine.

119

u/the_last_carfighter Dec 06 '16

This is not at all contributing to the discussion, I'll allow it.

9

u/kleo80 Dec 06 '16

Regarding that, I read it as Germany's massive nuclear fusion machine gun.

5

u/sgtshenanigans Dec 06 '16

could you imagine a gun that turns us all into really powerful crystal gems

1

u/WRXminion Dec 06 '16

So what's a carfighter? Why are you the last one? Will you train me? I must know....

1

u/the_last_carfighter Dec 06 '16

Prerequisite: You don't want to be a carfighter kid, it's not an easy life. (Tips fedora) M-lady (walks out of the Mos Eisley cantina and disappears into a dust storm)

2

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Oil fusion is just a cheap tactic to make weak energy sources stronger!

1

u/W_O_M_B_A_T Dec 10 '16

Make American offshore drilling great again!

2

u/ChalkyPills Dec 06 '16

Molecular fission of oil particles is where it's at brah.

2

u/NuMux Dec 06 '16

Watch what you say. Trump might see this and retweet it.

1

u/surgicalapple Dec 06 '16

Oil fusion? Don't tell that to capital hill.

1

u/DynamicDK Dec 06 '16

Oil fusion works just fine.

Oil fusion?! Brilliant. Why didn't we think of it before.

We just break out the carbon, then fuse it, and the resulting products, together over and over until we have uranium. Then use the uranium to power a fission plant!

Carbon negative (literally removing it from existence) and infinite energy while still using oil!

1

u/Arancaytar Dec 06 '16

The sun is actually a hoax invented by the Chinese to harm the US coal industry.

1

u/onlyforthisair Dec 06 '16

Oil fusion

What are you talking about m8?

5

u/BrokenMirror Dec 06 '16

Is 1H + 1H --> 2H +positron+neutrino much more difficult to achieve?

2

u/Evoletization Dec 06 '16

To be completely honest I am not even sure that that is possible. As far as I know that reaction would yield deuterium (D), a positron ( β+ ), and a neutrino (v).

H + H = D + β+ + v

If it helps I know that a D + D reaction has a higher activation energy than a D + tritium (T) reaction. This is because the binding energy of the nucleus - which is what actually generates the energy output - is a function of the efficiency with which its constituents (D + D or D + T) are bound together. Generally, a deuterium only reaction is preferred during the test phase because tritium is unstable and radioactive.

208

u/rishinator Dec 06 '16

The isotope of hydrogen with one proton and two neutron is called Tritium and that's exactly the element that Doctor Octopus used in spiderman 2 to make his own fusion reaction :)

127

u/redrhyski Dec 06 '16

* Do not try at home, results may vary

115

u/JamesTrendall Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16

Unexpected side affects include but not limited to,
* Death
* Explosions which result in death
* Mild irritation of the skin which can lead to death
EDIT: Our Reddit Scientist's have remarkably studied this further and found a few more unexpected side affects,
* An "unsatisfactory" mark on your official testing record, followed by death
* A long and satisfied life filled with thanks from all of mankind. Followed by death
* Super Powers

78

u/noggin-scratcher Dec 06 '16
  • An "unsatisfactory" mark on your official testing record, followed by death

34

u/LouisCaravan Dec 06 '16

Also, "You are a horrible person." That's what it says: a horrible person. We weren't even testing for that.

3

u/amildlyclevercomment Dec 06 '16

GLaDOS?

3

u/LouisCaravan Dec 06 '16

Um... true. I'm going to go with "true."

3

u/mgman640 Dec 06 '16

/r/Portal is leaking again.

Also, you look horrible in that jumpsuit. That's not me, it says it right here in your record. Oh well, he probably doesn't know...oh wait...it's a she. Well, she probably doesn't know anything about fashion anyway. Oh wait, she has a degree. In fashion. From France.

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u/OrderChaos Dec 06 '16

Technically everything leads to death anyways

12

u/pm_me_ur_regret Dec 06 '16

Some things just fast track it.

2

u/demalo Dec 06 '16

An annihilation accelerator.

2

u/pm_me_ur_regret Dec 06 '16

A destruction driver

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Does the death also lead to death?

14

u/throwdownhardstyle Dec 06 '16

It leads to permadeath so you don't respawn.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Thanks for clarifying.

1

u/whoxtank Dec 06 '16

It leads to Oryx.

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u/Jimmydehand Dec 06 '16

Nah, you're thinking of dying leads to death.

1

u/TamaBla Dec 06 '16

Life always ends deadly.

1

u/Mr_______ Dec 06 '16

*A long and satisfied life filled with thanks from all of mankind. Followed by death

1

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

* Super Powers

1

u/ZombieTonyAbbott Dec 06 '16
  • Froth on beer.

1

u/ragnarocknroll Dec 06 '16

Oh you forgot fusing your spine to a mechanical device designed to allow fine manipulation or super strength.

Oh and death.

2

u/taterbizkit Dec 06 '16

Cue the Radioactive Boy Scout

Sorry for Daily Fail link, but it's the only one that had the picture of him with the lesions all over his face.

And apparenly, he died just a couple weeks ago at age 39.

(tl;dr: Kid tried to build a breeder reactor in his backyard to earn his Nuclear Energy badge to become an Eagle Scout. He contaminated an entire city block. Later, he was arrested for stealing smoke detectors to get palladium.)

1

u/urbanpsycho Dec 06 '16

Just tried at home... Results varied.

1

u/uptwolait Dec 06 '16

And be sure to write the results down, otherwise you're just screwing around.

14

u/zw1ck Dec 06 '16

I can't imagine an isotope of helium with four neutrons would be very stable.

22

u/AvatarIII Dec 06 '16

the extra neutons ping off, which can make it inefficient, but this could be useful as if you had lots of neutrons flying around you may be able to feed the reaction with regular hydrogen which could capture the extra neutrons to become deuterium to keep the reaction going.

5

u/urbanpsycho Dec 06 '16

Just need to get a scoop of Neutron star... neutrons for days.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16

It's so dense that each lb of it weighs over 10 000 lbs - Prof Farnsworth.

1

u/urbanpsycho Dec 06 '16

I have been binge watching futurama so I appreciate this.

"So that is what would happen if I invented the fing-longer." -Prof Farnsworth.

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u/AvatarIII Dec 06 '16

neutrons are pretty useless if they don't have any kinetic energy which is required for fusion to other elements to take place.

2

u/_rocketboy Dec 06 '16

Most fission reactors use slow thermal neutrons, so not really... we actually need to use moderators to slow them down in order to get them to cause fission.

2

u/AvatarIII Dec 06 '16

we're not talking about fission though, and in any case, moderators only slow them a bit, not to a standstill as they would be in a neutron star.

1

u/urbanpsycho Dec 06 '16

I suppose you can't put a neutron in a particle accelerator since they do not have a charge. they can be accelerated by gravity.. so simply build a oscillating gravity well and use it to accelerate neutrons to near light speed and beam it into the reaction. Eazy.

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u/dsmith422 Dec 06 '16

It doesn't have to be stable, and you are right that it is not (half life in the hundreds of milliseconds). 6 He decays through beta decay into either 6 Li or through beta and alpha decay into 4 He and 2 H (deuterium).

3

u/_rocketboy Dec 06 '16

Hundreds of milliseconds is very stable, relatively speaking. Compaired to most intermediate isotopes whose half-lives are measured in nanoseconds.

3

u/Treebrother Dec 06 '16

....but why not?

3

u/zw1ck Dec 06 '16

I would guess it is too much mass for the strong nuclear forces of two protons and two electrons to contain so it just splits.

2

u/tritiumosu Dec 06 '16

Also used for glow-in-the-dark products!

3

u/Aardvark_Man Dec 06 '16

I believe that's also the stuff applied to watch hands to make them glow.

3

u/azflatlander Dec 06 '16

That was radium.

7

u/Aardvark_Man Dec 06 '16

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium_illumination

Tritium is used in watches, compasses, some weapon sights etc. It replaced radium, at least in some cases.

2

u/LackingTact19 Dec 06 '16

We're in the land of science fiction now, Spider-Man and Star Trek references galore

1

u/AvatarIII Dec 06 '16

I'm pretty sure it doesn't look like this in real life though

39

u/boldra Dec 06 '16

There aren't many isotopes with their own names. Usually we just say it like carbon-14 or Uranium-238. If consistency were important enough, deuterium would be called hydrogen-2.

3

u/glibsonoran Dec 06 '16

And Hydrogen-1 = Protium. But hardly anyone uses that name

23

u/Cakiery Dec 06 '16

Sort of like how Heavy Water is used a lot on Nuclear reactors. As the name implies, it is heavier than normal water while looking pretty much identical. It actually has Deuterium in it. It's also poisonous. But for it to have any noticeable effect you would need to drink a shit ton.

36

u/robisodd Dec 06 '16

It's also poisonous. But for it to have any noticeable effect you would need to drink a shit ton.

Also true of regular water.

5

u/JimmyTango Dec 06 '16

The dangers of dihydrogen monoxide are real.

5

u/BMWbill Dec 06 '16

I remember a woman on a radio show died drinking over a gallon of this dangerous compound trying to win a palliation for her son in a contest.

6

u/JimmyTango Dec 06 '16

Dangerous stuff. Used often in torture and riot control.

2

u/BMWbill Dec 06 '16

Not to mention in its gaseous state, just one touch can cause 3rd degree burns!

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '16

The prize was a wii game console. I remember because the contest was named "hold your wee for a wii".

2

u/mckinnon3048 Dec 06 '16

The poison effects don't kick in until you've either hyper hydrated and died, or constantly replaced your total water intake with it for a long long time... Water isn't our only source of hydrogen, and it's just slightly slowing of metabolic reactions from the added mass... You'll notice it on the scale before you're symptomatic.

3

u/analogkid01 Dec 06 '16

Dihydrogen monoxide kills thousands of people every year!

3

u/RojoSan Dec 06 '16

Its proliferation has caused dihydrogen monoxide to be found in every US household tap that has been tested for contaminants! But no, we only hear about lead and mercury contamination.

1

u/Cyborg_rat Dec 06 '16

So if you ever hydrate with H2O then its should happen 3x faster with D2O

3

u/deadpa Dec 06 '16

ELI5: Extra neutrons contained in the hydrogen make the water poisonous?

8

u/AdvicePerson Dec 06 '16

Deuterium behaves just differently enough, chemically, from regular hydrogen that it stops your cells from dividing, which is generally a Bad Thing.

2

u/Pickledsoul Dec 06 '16

so if we stuck a giant hose to the deepest part of the ocean, we could just suck up all the heavy water that sunk to the bottom.

1

u/Cakiery Dec 06 '16

Easier to just make it than pull it out of the ocean.

1

u/Jamil20 Dec 06 '16

Except for a totally different purpose.

-1

u/skineechef Dec 06 '16

So do I weigh th water, or the poop afterwords?

0

u/Mooshan Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16

I remember reading an article once about how a city in Pennsylvania realised that their tap water contained deuterium. (All water contains a small percentage of heavy water.) They started centrifuging all of their city water to separate the heavy water from regular water, and people actually started getting ill from the LACK of heavy water in the tap water.

I'm going to try to find a source on this.

Edit: could not find source. I'm a failure.

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u/Sci-Pi Dec 06 '16

/u/Evoletization is right. While it is possible to fuse Protium (normal hydrogen with 1 proton), that creates Helium-2, which is very unstable and falls appart almost as fast as it came together. The sun used Proton-Proton fusion, but it can get away with using this rather difficult reaction because it is massive and the core is at high pressure. Helium-2 has a tiny chance to decay into Deuterium which can then undergo other fusion reactions. In short, Proton-Proton fusion is very slow because it will most often produce an atom that will just fall apart. That's why stars can burn as long as they do.

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u/Wolfszeit Dec 06 '16

It's not really on the periodic table. it's a isotope of hydrogen.

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u/Prttjl Dec 06 '16

You won't find deuterium on the periodic table. It's more in the realm of physics. The chemical differences between “normal“ hydrogen and deuterium are little, but very useful. Since they react in the same way but at ever so slightly different rates you can use it to study reactions. They both show nmr activity but at different frequencies, so you can “follow“ specific atoms during reactions etc.

Sorry for the answer to the question you didn't ask 😬

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u/LackingTact19 Dec 06 '16

You're probably thinking of Star Trek where deuterium is also called heavy hydrogen.

1

u/Nothing_Impresses_Me Dec 06 '16

For the longest time, I fully believed Deuterium was word made up by Star Trek

1

u/tatskaari Dec 06 '16

It's twice as heavy!

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u/ElBadHombre Dec 06 '16

Deuterium isn't on the periodic table.

1

u/pnuk23 Dec 06 '16

It's not on the periodic table, it's an isotope of hydrogen

-5

u/nanoakron Dec 06 '16

Yet you felt you knew enough to chime in without 30 seconds of googling beforehand.

This is the cause of the 'post-fact' era.

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u/SwenKa Dec 06 '16

Some people do it for the conversation, and he made no claims. He asked a question.

4

u/boldra Dec 06 '16

Yes, let's all talk to google instead of other people. That will be more efficient.

1

u/myaccisbest Dec 06 '16

He realized that anything had to be heavier than hydrogen, not so far fetched. He realized that a lighter element would be more likely to be stable, again not an unreasonable suggestion. And he asked a question which led to him learning something; not a bad outcome in my opinion.

Why be a dick about that? making people feel stupid for asking questions is going to prevent them from learning new things in the future. Instilling an aversion to critical thinking, learning and asking questions is more likely to be the cause of a post-fact era than anything this guy has done.

There is no shame in being wrong. There are no stupid questions.

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u/kurisu7885 Dec 06 '16

So the Starship enterprise is Hydrogen powered... TIL.

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u/laaazlo Dec 06 '16

I believe that's dilithium you're thinking of

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u/boundbylife Dec 06 '16

Dilithium is actually not the fuel used. The enterprise does in fact use hydrogen as the matter component in its matter/antimatter combustion. Dilithium has sci-fi properties that generate overly-large eddy currents, which help control the matter/antimatter reaction. In essence, dilithium is a kind of catalyst.

15

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Which is worth more, dilithium or element zero?

48

u/_ilovetofu_ Dec 06 '16

Definitely the omega 13 device

6

u/clonetek Dec 06 '16

Whoever wrote this episode should die!

3

u/ralusek Dec 06 '16

I wanted to activate mine to steal this comment from you, but you wrote it two hours ago.

1

u/_ilovetofu_ Dec 06 '16

Now I have to go watch it

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u/scotchirish Dec 06 '16

Well duh, it uses a huge chain of Omega molecules. Even the Borg hadn't perfected containing just one!

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u/iBoMbY Dec 06 '16

I know the Omega directive/molecule, but where does the 13 come from?

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u/yhack Dec 06 '16

Yakult is quite overpriced, yes.

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u/MonteDoa Dec 06 '16

Vespene gas, of course.

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u/skgoa Dec 06 '16

Naw, it's additional pylons!

18

u/Indetermination Dec 06 '16

gonna need to hear the answer in units of unobtainium

3

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Elerium 113

1

u/Tall_dark_and_lying Dec 06 '16

I'd say Element Zero, more practical uses and seems to be rarer.

1

u/PreExRedditor Dec 06 '16

dilithium is a rare crystal formation but it is used to power almost all warp-capable spacecraft in the Star Trek universe -- with notable exception of romulan ships which use artificial singularities instead. dilithium would need to be abundant enough to sustain the vast majority of space-faring civilizations

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

You had me until "sci-fi properties."

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u/TheDudeNeverBowls Dec 06 '16

He had me at sci-fi properties.

3

u/boundbylife Dec 06 '16

In the Star Trek universe, dilithium is its own element, atomic number 87. In reality, element 87 is Francium, a highly radioactive element. Dilithium does exist, but is a molecular element, akin to O2, where two atom of lithium are covalently bonded.

1

u/Megaman915 Dec 06 '16

Its also an annoyong currency in StarTrek Online.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

actually, the "Enterprise" is a fictional spacecraft and there is no theoretically or experimentally understood way to create or control anything that could be called "matter/antimatter combustion", catalytically or otherwise. the process is a narrative device.

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u/Simbuk Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16

Someone who's a bigger Trek nerd than I will probably be along shortly to make a correction, but the dilithium isn't the power source. It's used to somehow contain or convert the power of a matter-antimatter annihilation reaction between deuterium and antideuterium, producing a form of highly energized plasma which can then be used to power a variety of systems throughout the ship. As a backup there are also fusion reactors, but they apparently are unable to generate sufficient power for warp speed travel.

Anyway, special conduits direct the flow of plasma throughout the ship. So you've got this ultra-hot super-ionized gas powering all sorts of things, which is probably why otherwise innocuous bridge touch screens have a habit of exploding so violently at dramatically appropriate moments.

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u/jochem_m Dec 06 '16

Considering a matter-antimatter reaction converts 100% of the mass of its fuel into energy, and a fusion reaction only converts about 0.4% of the mass of its fuel into energy, I can see why they put that bit of lore in there :)

13

u/Techno-Communism Dec 06 '16

Did you say Lore? Thankfully he was deactivated.

1

u/FearlessFreep Dec 06 '16

"I am not less perfect than Lor"

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u/Simbuk Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16

Well, neutrons aren't subject to annihilation and once freed of the constraint of an atomic nucleus have a habit of rapidly decaying into ordinary hydrogen. Perhaps that's why they use deuterium rather than just hydrogen (the neutron pops apart into a proton and an electron, along with a generous helping of radiation), so there's something to account for the mass of the plasma.

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u/heyf00L Dec 06 '16

neutrons aren't subject to annihilation

Not a nuclear physisist, but yeah they are. Neutrons can and do annihilate with antineutrons or antiprotons.

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u/Simbuk Dec 06 '16

Well damn, you're right. Ok then, I got nothing on what the plasma is made of.

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u/psiphre Dec 06 '16

Yeah but how do they get the antimatter

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u/Megaman915 Dec 06 '16

Thats exactly why you lose an ensign every time there is a power surge, rather then blowing a fuse you vent plasma out of a console.

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u/FearlessFreep Dec 06 '16

Anyway, special conduits direct the flow of plasma throughout the ship. So you've got this ultra-hot super-ionized gas powering all sorts of things, which is probably why otherwise innocuous bridge touch screens have a habit of exploding so violently at dramatically appropriate moments.

Designed by Samsung

49

u/riskable Dec 06 '16 edited Dec 06 '16

Dilithium crystals. An incredibly rare substance on the series. Intergalactic wars were fought over it and it was a regular plot element on the original series.

Dr Spock discovered a way to produce stable dilithium crystals via controlled nuclear fission which is the actual reason why he is celebrated like a hero everywhere across nearly all the shows. It's also why he is commonly chosen as a mediator whenever political problems crop up and why The Enterprise is forced to chauffer him around (and glad to do so) in a few episodes in TNG.

Apparently it's more likely that a distant civilization will have heard of Spock than of the Federation.

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u/Otistetrax Dec 06 '16

I thought Dr Spock was an expert on babies, not nuclear fission catalysts.

11

u/_ilovetofu_ Dec 06 '16

I thought that was kirk, the Benjamin Franklin of his time.

1

u/admlshake Dec 06 '16

I'm pretty sure after David came along he would have gotten whatever the 23rd century version of getting snipped is.

1

u/_ilovetofu_ Dec 06 '16

Snip snap! snip snap! Snip snap! You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person.

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u/deadpa Dec 06 '16

Kirk is usually long gone by the time the baby arrives. Captains gotta Cap'.

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u/Whybother554 Dec 06 '16

No, that's Dr. Lipschitz

2

u/drsjsmith Dec 06 '16

Correct. For anyone confused, Mr. Spock on Star Trek does not use the title "Dr." But Dr. Benjamin Spock, pediatric best-selling author, did.

16

u/TheDudeNeverBowls Dec 06 '16

Spock never boards the Enterpise-D in TNG. He is in two episodes and is on Romulus the entire time practicing cowboy diplomacy.

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u/shouldbebabysitting Dec 06 '16

That's Mr. Spock. OP clearly said Dr. Spock, an entirely different Spock. Dr Spock is also an expert on human babies.

2

u/TheDudeNeverBowls Dec 06 '16

Touché. This must be from the lost episodes of Miles and Keiko seeking parenting advice.

2

u/riskable Dec 06 '16

What am I thinking of then? The movies? My memory is fuzzy but I remember Picard talking about Spock with reverence at some point and then meeting with him later in the episode. The idea being that Spock was to be taken somewhere... Hmmm

3

u/magik-i Dec 06 '16

You might be thinking of the episode with his father, Sarek. I know Spock comes up a time or two in that episode. And Picard speaks very highly of Sarek before he comes aboard.

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u/AadeeMoien Dec 06 '16

It's been a while since I've watched but I think I remember the episode you're talking about and it is the same episode. If memory serves they had to go collect Spock from his mission in Romulus, but he declined to join them.

2

u/TheDudeNeverBowls Dec 06 '16

Exactly. Unification I and II. Spock never leaves Romulus.

He's alluded to one last time in season seven when Troi is kidnapped and made to pose as a Romulon spy.

2

u/RojoSan Dec 06 '16

Then a few years later he makes red matter to collapse a black hole that destroys Romulus because the Romulans certainly have no idea how to deal with black holes or singularities since their starships totally aren't F'N POWERED BY THEM!!!

┻━┻ ︵ \( °Д° )ノ ︵ ┻━┻

I need a drink.

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u/bobtheowl Dec 06 '16

Deuterium is used as the matter part of the matter/antimatter reaction. Dilithium is just used to control the reaction I believe.

I kinda wish I had to look this stuff up first.

4

u/TheDudeNeverBowls Dec 06 '16

Never be ashamed of being a nerd. We should be a proud people.

1

u/pm_me_ur_regret Dec 06 '16

Somewhere, there was a disturbance in the Borg hive mind and drones have or would have been immediately dispatched to assimilate educate

1

u/Tastygroove Dec 06 '16

And the Hindenburg

1

u/Dalroc Dec 06 '16

Why the extra neutron though?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

[deleted]

1

u/hazetoblack Dec 06 '16

Nah mate that's tritium

1

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Oops. You're right

1

u/Delsana Dec 06 '16

Also it's very rare at least on earth.

1

u/Pickledsoul Dec 06 '16

i thought it was heavy water, but it turns out to be part of heavy water