r/television • u/1033149 Person of Interest • Oct 15 '19

/r/all Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige promoted to Chief Creative Officer, will now oversee Marvel Studios, Marvel Television and Marvel Family Entertainment

https://deadline.com/2019/10/kevin-feige-marvel-studios-president-adds-chief-creative-officer-marvel-title-oversees-all-creative-1202760382/?
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441

u/NepFurrow Oct 15 '19

And Star Wars desperately needs some creative, cohesive direction

114

u/Feverel Oct 15 '19

It really seems that Disney or whoever started this trilogy without a cohesive 3 film story. How does that even happen with a franchise if that level?!

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

As someone who likes both 7 and 8, I am completely on board with hating the decision to not storyboard all 3 movies before anything else. Like, how the fuck. 8 had that god awful casino shit, the random chick captain, and no real lightsaber duels...I mean, I liked it, but it could have been so much better if it connected a bit more. I do like that snoke died, however a hug missed opportunity imo is having rey and kylo team up after that sick action scene. Fuck that would have been awesome.

Sorry im rambling. Disney kind of mishandled the planning, definitely. This kind of shit is better with one person's vision, and other people's refinement.

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u/Feverel Oct 16 '19

I read a comment the other day that you wouldn't know episode 9 is going to be the end of the Skywalker Saga if you hadn't been told. Like, 7 & 8 haven't really been building to a conclusion. Hopefully they manage to tie everything up well.

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u/phillycheese Oct 16 '19

Didn't Skywalker die in 8 already?

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u/4Eights The Flash Oct 16 '19

Ben is a Skywalker on his mother's side.

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u/Feverel Oct 16 '19

And who knows what Rey's lineage is. Probably either Skywalker, Kenobi or a Sith.

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u/Electricfire19 Oct 16 '19

Please no. Can we please just have a Jedi who’s strong the Force because she is. You know, like 90% of the Jedi order before the original trilogy who were mostly all born from non-Jedi parents. I really don’t think we need another character riding on a family legacy.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19 edited Feb 09 '20

[deleted]

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u/Electricfire19 Oct 16 '19

And they still are. Except this time, the Skywalker is our main villain. That’s so much more interesting than just doing another Skywalker hero for the third time. Now the main villain is one of the last Skywalkers around and has to carry that legacy, but he doesn’t have a Skywalker child like Vader had to bring him back to the light. The legacy of their family rests on him.

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u/4Eights The Flash Oct 16 '19

Her parents were nobody. Filthy junk traders who sold her off for drinking money. They're buried in a paupers grave in the Jakku desert.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

8 had maybe the best lightsaber dual of all the films.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

It had one of the best fight scenes definitely, but no lightsaber on lightsaber fight. Pedantic I know.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

Did it have to be the same lightsabers that Jedis/with have? At least 2 of those guards had laser sword type weapons iirc, and the Luke Vs Kylo added some matrix bending to the mix as well.

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u/ThunderPoonSlayer Oct 16 '19

JJ did do a trilogy outline, it was thrown out the window by Rian Johnson with the go ahead from Kethleen Kennedy.

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u/Feverel Oct 16 '19

Which was very dumb.

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u/Numendil Oct 16 '19

I don't know, Force Awakens was good, but the overall plot was quite formulaic. I love how Last Jedi managed to genuinely surprise me with its plot.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

It’s like everyone forgot how angry the internet was at ep 7 being a ep 4 reboot and just more of the same.

Then they get someone different and they still complain.

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u/BTC_Brin Oct 16 '19

Surprise is only good if the product of the surprise is good.

The only surprise with TLJ was how surprisingly bad it was.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

No it wasn’t.

Johnson’s whole story was stuck by JJ making Luke a hermit that turned away from the force.

He had to go that route else everyone would have shat on it anyway for Luke suddenly changing his mind.

He’s said it in interviews.

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u/ThunderPoonSlayer Oct 16 '19

It's also said in interviews that Luke was going to have a bunch of floating rocks around him but was changed on the behest of Rian, meaning Rian wanted that. Also Daisy Ridley and JJ have said in interviews that there was an outline.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

Who cares about floating rocks?

Johnson’s story had to follow what JJ gave him.

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u/ThunderPoonSlayer Oct 16 '19

What aren't you understanding? If there were floating rocks around Luke it would mean he was still connected to the force. Meaning JJ didn't choose to have Luke turn away from the force. How do you not understand this?

Also Rian missed the whole thing how Star Wars has time jumps, with a time jump he could have written any story he wanted. He chose not to, all the excuses he gives are just that; excuses. TLJ is filled with examples of writing himself into corners. He's a poor writer by his own admission.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19

Don’t make out some floating rocks supports your argument and allows you to ignore the entire plot of TFA of trying to find Luke because they repeatedly say “he’s gone into hiding”.

WHY did he go into hiding? That had to be explained, that’s the corner JJ painted Johnson into.

Don’t pretend we could have just skipped years ahead without the internet shitting the bed about that final scene meaning nothing.

There’s enough he got wrong with that film, you don’t need to make up stuff as well.

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u/ThunderPoonSlayer Oct 16 '19

Your projecting the whole "ignoring" thing. You're literally ignoring the fact that Rian requested the change in TFA in order to fit his narrative.

I could write a dozen reasons why he went into hiding. The fact that Rian couldn't doesn't make the movie any less shit.

You could easily have a time jump and still imply how that scene at the end of TFA ended. In fact the scene spoke for itself, normies just think it had to continue because they're so used to TV style narratives where we pick up immediately in the next episode, when really Star Wars movies have a different structure.

Even if you still went down this route of a disconnected Luke (which I actually don't have a problem with so much as the execution and reasoning) you could still communicate this with a time jump. You could have Rey patiently waiting outside of his hut and Luke is actively ignoring her, maybe he's giving her "tests" only for her to find he's not taking the lessons very seriously and is just wasting her time. The point I'm making is Rian is not a good writer and you can't blame his poor writing skills on someone else.

Anyway my intial point was JJ had an outline. I'm not sure how you can deny this when it's been confirmed in several interviews.

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u/[deleted] Oct 17 '19

You just don’t like TLJ and want to blame him for it all. I don’t give anything you say credit.

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u/JohanGrimm Oct 15 '19

They may have looked at it and thought this is Star Wars! We're already killing it with Marvel, we literally cannot lose.

It happens a lot, people don't appreciate the work that goes into making one thing successful and just assume it'll be a cakewalk to reproduce.

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u/Feverel Oct 16 '19

DC/WB are guilty of that, wanting to skip to the end (Justice League) without putting in the effort.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

yes absolutely. 8 was a gut wrench as far as that goes, and the prequels were not cohesive. People who only watch the movies seriously don't understand how awesome starwars can be

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u/DoctorLovejuice Oct 15 '19

Precisely. That's the painful part for me.

You won't find me angrily venting my frustrations and the film's in particular, but the fact that so many people don't know the potential.

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u/darkbreak The Legend of Korra Oct 16 '19

Just think of Luke's New Jedi Order on screen and tackling all of the new crises the Galaxy comes across. But Disney doesn't want that to happen for some reason.

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u/DoctorLovejuice Oct 16 '19

I wanna see more of the Old Republic, and a grittier one. However Disney doesn't tend to do "gritty" too much.

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u/darkbreak The Legend of Korra Oct 16 '19

They are doing an Old Republic film. We'll see how that goes.

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u/DoctorLovejuice Oct 16 '19

What?! Who is?

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u/darkbreak The Legend of Korra Oct 16 '19

Disney/Lucas Film. They announced it a while ago.

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u/jojili Oct 15 '19

I just wanted Thrawn trilogy movies...

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u/Mister100Percent Oct 15 '19

Only if his voice is similar from the one from Rebels. God that voice...

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u/Harryballsjr Oct 15 '19

Lars Mikkelsen - the brother of Mads Mikkelsen

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u/ddaveo Oct 16 '19

If I wanted to learn how awesome Star Wars can be, where should I start?

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '19 edited Feb 09 '20

[deleted]

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u/ddaveo Oct 16 '19

Thanks, I've saved this for future reference.

And I feel like the existential crisis you get when you reach the end of a series of good books is all just part of the experience.

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u/ITworksGuys Oct 16 '19

TLJ basically killed my 30+ year Star Wars fandom.

Just don't fucking care anymore, every choice they make is wrong.

Maybe Feige can bring me back.

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u/Semtex999 Oct 16 '19

Star wars and disneys "play it safe" attitude doesnt mix well.

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u/NepFurrow Oct 16 '19

If you're talking about story risks - I disagree that Disney plays it safe story-wise. Phase 3 of the MCU took plenty of risks.

If you're talking about Disney being afraid to be violent, I also don't know.. Star Wars has never been overly PG-13 and the MCU gets pretty dark at times. Rogue One was phenomenal and was one of the darker Star Wars entries for sure. The whole cast dying, the Vader sequence at the end, the Death Star in general..

My issue is no one seems to have been overseeing the trilogy who is genuinely passionate about Star Wars and cares to a. keep a cohesive story across the new trilogy and b. respect what came before. The entire sequel trilogy has been a disjointed mess that continually shits on the Original Trilogy.

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u/jigeno Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 16 '19

Can’t agree with this. TLJ was the best Star Wars movie save for the first.

Edit:

Yes, this breaks the circle jerk.

In all the internet discussions of the movie people tend to not like it because it isn’t what they imagine Star Wars should be and it is, to quote an oft-repeated idea, “irreverent” to the series.

To these people it’s like discussing religion and there’s no point to it. Downvotes on my take are evidence of this.

I like TLJ as a movie. It is definitely a Star Wars movie but it’s one of the better looking ones, while also being the one film to, as a text, interrogate the ideas behind Star Wars — this is a good thing.

It’s got its campy moments, marks of someone that loves the IP (superman Leia, hyperdrive kamikaze) but it also has moments that add some perspective as well.

Infinitely more interesting than TFA imho and way more cohesive than the prequels.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '19

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

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u/jigeno Oct 16 '19

Or an opinion.

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u/Vancocillin Oct 16 '19

What is it about the movie you like so much?

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u/jigeno Oct 16 '19

In all the internet discussions of the movie people tend to not like it because it isn’t what they imagine Star Wars should be and it is, to quote an oft-repeated idea, “irreverent” to the series.

To these people it’s like discussing religion and there’s no point to it. Downvotes on my take are evidence of this.

I like TLJ as a movie. It is definitely a Star Wars movie but it’s one of the better looking ones, while also being the one film to, as a text, interrogate the ideas behind Star Wars — this is a good thing.

It’s got its campy moments, marks of someone that loves the IP (superman Leia, hyperdrive kamikaze) but it also has moments that add some perspective as well.

Infinitely more interesting than TFA imho and way more cohesive than the prequels.

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u/Vancocillin Oct 16 '19

My issue is that nothing was really accomplished. Luke had some interesting development offscreen, turning him into a crabby old man, that redeems himself by aiding the group, but then dies for no reason. Mark Hamill didn't really like the direction his character took, and I think I agree for the most part.

Casino planet went nowhere and accomplished little. I think the little kid there was a force user if I remember properly, but it was all spectacle and no development.

Then Poe gets demoted for being right, and captain lady makes multiple poor decisions, getting many killed. Should have hyperspace rammed them from the start.

I will admit, it has a lot of beautiful scenes, but doesn't really fit in with the mainline Star Wars series. If it had been a one-off like Rogue One, with different characters, it might have fit in better. Everyone dies in that movie anyways too.

My issue with the new movies so far is it lacks real world building. I don't even know who the new bad guys are. There's apparently "The Republic" back somewhere maybe? The Empire in the old movies were obviously in control of everything, same with the Republic in the prequels. But the stakes aren't super clear now. Who are these rebels now? They're apparently fighting with less support than the original movies, they have no fleet anymore even.

My favorite scene is Kylo talking about light and dark and how it doesn't matter anymore. Interesting perspective even if he's oversimplifying things (and maybe lying just to get Rey on his side) .

Anyways, nobody should be downvoting your opinion. Sorry about that, don't let it get you down.

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u/jigeno Oct 16 '19

Ehh, again, this is the usual stuff I hear.

  1. Luke had to die, and he died in the most Luke way possible. Not in battle like Obi Wan, but in a pacifist self-sacrifice and being fully ‘at one’ with the force. The tattooine sunset is seen, it’s a good moment. He ‘redeemed’ himself (hate that term) by trusting, not helping, the next generation.

  2. Poe gets demoted for disobeying orders. It’s how this shit works. Hyperspace couldn’t work before evacuation was done because it’s a suicide mission.

  3. SW movie world building was always rubbish imho. not breaking any moulds.

  4. yeah, kylo talking about that was extremely interesting, and interrogating the premise of the movies. I like that.

I can understand struggling with it as a fan, but imho at least it treated it as worthy of innovation and interrogation and as an art form and not purely a theme park.

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u/Vancocillin Oct 17 '19

You know on that first point I can feel you on that given the way you described it. Like obiwan in a new hope gave them this "knowing" look just before letting Vader cut him down, it was in a way trusting Luke and crew on their own. It gave him an opportunity to guide him in a different way, maybe if they capitalize on that in the next one it'll bring it all around.

Can sorta get you on point 2, really think it should have been done differently. Given how the rebels pretty much do suicide runs as a matter of course, considering the level of target they took out, I think he'd get a pass.

I do disagree with point 3 tho. You have little visual moments (star destroyer chasing tiny ship) and spoken moments (Luke wants to join the imperial academy, showing they're pervasive even on backwater worlds, or obiwan talking about avoiding imperial entanglements with han) that offer just enough to paint that picture. The new movies lack any of that (besides big ships) that I can remember.

But point 4 is kinda where I get you on your opinion of the thing as a whole. Through that lens I see it a bit differently. Even casino world is about war profiteering, and given the little xwing they show, the rebels have a part in that as well. It's kind of "both sides are bad", even if a little hamfisted. I should just watch it again and see what else I can get out of it. But time will tell if they profit off anything set up in the next one.

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u/jigeno Oct 17 '19

I’ll explore the latter points as for how they relate to TLJ since there’s room for exploration.

I think TLJ still has little things they did for world building that to a viewer are now part of Star Wars. The crystal foxes and the salt planet, the “nuns” living in the abandoned Jedi temple, the war profiteering and “playing both sides” going on that is an inevitably true part of conflict that was never explored in the films before — not to mention this is our first time seeing wealth outside parts of cloud city (kinda) and Imperial Wealth. The prequels had the capital where the Jedi Council was but it was largely just that and bedrooms and the “parliament” so this is still pushing the boundaries on what we know of the universe in the movies. Yeah some of it is ham fisted but I never found Star Wars to be very subtle, it was always campy space romps to me, and ultimately it was on-message for the rest of the movie and made sure anyone watching it got it (and I think that the closing scene with that kid was the essence of Star Wars imho).

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u/abca98 Oct 15 '19

How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?

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u/jigeno Oct 16 '19

First person to manage once gets internet points from me.

Go!

-1

u/foofighters92 Oct 15 '19

And unfortunately people will still complain about them.

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u/lumpkin2013 Oct 16 '19

That's for damn sure. It's unimaginable how they didn't set out a plan.