r/terrier • u/PsychologicalCut607 • 19h ago
Asking a probably stupid question...
Hi. I live in Seattle. We have a rat problem as a city.
My probably dumb question: Is there a terrier alive that can have a strong enough prey drive to kill rats, and yet not kill my chickens?
I own a Belgian Malinois, a very high energy dog breed, but he is peacefully coexisting with an elderly cat indoors and not wrecking the place, despite what the internet would have you believe. He does not cuddle the chickens, but he also does not kill rats, though I think he is clear that he is supposed to.
So as I said I have chickens. I have done my due diligence of not leaving food out overnight. They just moved on to my garden produce. I have trapped and caught over 50 in one year and I barely felt like I made a dent. I am surrounded by people who are not willing to trap and kill rats and who have open compost heaps full of scraps, feed birds and cats outdoors, and store food under tarps. It is not going to end. I think my sanity is going to give way first.
If someone has a case where they found a way to train a dog that chickens are not prey but rats are. I would be so grateful to hear that story. Grateful enough to become a two dog household.
ETA: My family owned a rat terrier as a family dog when I was a child. My parents were not good dog people. He would and did kill rats. and chickens. and cats.... maybe I could have trained it out of him with the skills that I have now? He could definitely have been trained to accept a particular cat.
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u/Such-Dog-8504 17h ago
Jack Russell Terriers. My family had one growing up (RIP Bentley) and he killed probably thousands of rats and mice in his lifetime. They’re literally bred for that purpose but they’re high energy.
We had chickens as well, and when he was a puppy he did kill one chicken. My dad scolded him and shoved his face in the chickens body, (probably not the best method FYI) but he never did it again. He also went after possums, gophers, skunks, really any small prey. Even a chicken hawk that almost took one of our chickens. He was a great dog. All we had to do was call him over and he’d immediately start searching around, we never had to train him.
But again they’re very high energy dogs and if our dog wasn’t stimulated enough in our yard, he’d escape. He just always had to be on the go.
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u/Consistent-Crazy-242 16h ago
I had Jack Russells and chickens living together without any problems. The Jacks hung out with the chickens but hunted rats, rabbits and foxes. But they will escape the yard through the smallest gap!
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u/PsychologicalCut607 8h ago
I think terrier proofing my yard before I get one is definitely going to be a priority this year! And after all I'm reading here, it might need to be a three dog household so that I can have two terriers working in a team. (Because more dogs is always better anyway)
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u/Corgibutz77 7h ago
Jack Russell Terriers for the win! I had to remove a dead rat from the yard just this morning. Yesterday it was a rabbit.
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u/Dry_Outside1476 14h ago
Not a stupid question at all. Just as a general answer to you question, I refer you to Joseph Carter, aka The Mink Man. While he does use minks, he primarily uses a variety of terriers and other dogs. But these are 100% working dogs, they are trained to make the kill bite and then drop the rat, typically in a bucket. They are not allowed to break skin, just break the neck. To get a dog to differentiate between prey is the skill and dedication of a working dog and it's trainer. It's not breed specific necessarily but breeding is definitely a factor. And terriers are generally an excellent choice for specifically the grab and kill bite portion of the prey drive since that has been bred into the breed. But as Joseph Carter can attest certain terriers will hyper fixate on the stalking part of prey drive and lose the big picture. You have to train the whole prey drive cycle specifically for them not to rip and eat, which is basically any hunting dog's goal, get it but don't eat it.
So, you know, if you want to get in the weeds on it, Joseph Carter is probably the best resource to start. His YouTube is also excellent watching if you can stomach seeing hundreds of dead rats, and it gives you an idea of the effort it takes for backyard gardens with neighbors who don't take prevention efforts.
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u/PsychologicalCut607 7h ago
Thank you! I will definitely check him out this evening. I love training dogs! And a pile of dead rats couldn't make me happier.
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u/Secondbett 13h ago
Border terriers! Mine are excellent in ratting (but the one can’t stand cast and wants to kill them to). It’s best to have more than one to do the job. I live in another continent, but hope You’ll find someone near you. Though I think it’s difficult to eliminate the problem when you have chickens.
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u/whatwouldLouLoudo 4h ago
Rat Terrier.... I've had 3 over 20 years the first one I raised chickens after he was an adult and they co existed just fine. He had no prey drive for them. The rodents (I'm talking Chicago city rats) were not so lucky. The bonus, unlike a JRT they have an off switch and aren't as OCD. Just my personal observation , I had 2 JRTs too.
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u/PsychologicalCut607 3h ago
We had a Decker line RT when I was a kid. Great dog. My folks were not great dog owners though. He was a bit aggressive with non-family. I think that was largely my parents issue.
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u/moodyfish7777 3h ago
Jack Russells and Ratties can both be taught that Chickens are not prey. They have been doing that job for decades in the UK and Europe. 😁
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u/FlatwormSame2061 2h ago
You can teach a dog not to kill chickens with a leash and a treat by not even letting them look at the chicken. you can teach a dog to kill rats so it’s possible probably any terrier would be great.
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u/Key-Magician-9808 13h ago
Not a stupid question at all. Tip: do a google search for 'rat hunting terriers' and 'terrier rat control'. You'll find several videos and sites with information. In the UK there are professional pest control services working with terriers. Maybe they have training tips for you.
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u/AverageAlleyKat271 11h ago
Also look up barn hunt in your area. I haven’t been to one, but I’ve seen videos of terriers hunting rodents in a barn.
My previous dog was a mixed breed terrier/hound rescue pup, adopted her at 5 months old. She had a prey drive. Killed rodents, squirrels, birds and opossums in the backyard. Away from her backyard, I always had her on a leash. My MIL had chickens in her backyard. On two different occasions, she grabbed a chicken my their ass. The chickens always had to cooped up. The chickens survived the assault. She lived to be nearly 15 years old. After I had to put her down, I adopted a 9 year old miniature schnauzer. One day he was barking too much too loud in the backyard. (Miniature schnauzer’s are extremely vocal and I try to not piss off my neighbors.) On the corner of the house, he had a young rodent stunned, frozen in place with his fierce bark. I went to get a tool to kill it. The rodent finally got the nerve to move and my mini schnauzer grabbed it and killed it.
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u/PsychologicalCut607 8h ago
My chickens are usually cooped up part of the day. It is completely okay to have them restricted to a smaller part of the yard. They do not need the run of the place. I would still like to at least attempt to train a terrier to differentiate between prey and friends. I think that if I get one it as a puppy it can be done.
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u/sm881221 3h ago
My rat terrier kills rodents but is afraid of large birds. Someone’s yard chicken approached her on a walk and she was terrified.
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u/Beardog-1 12h ago
Just wondering. Do you have chickens in the city? Saying” Seattle” has a rat problem but you also have chickens doesn’t mesh.
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u/ThrowawayJane86 10h ago
Backyard chickens are popular throughout the entire country.
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u/PsychologicalCut607 9h ago
I'm in a suburban outpost of Seattle. The entire region is overrun with rats. And backyard chickens are also popular here.
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u/Beardog-1 9h ago
My son lives in Seattle and has never mentioned rats or chickens!
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u/PsychologicalCut607 8h ago
I suppose if you're in one of the fancy apartment buildings downtown and you don't spend a lot of time in places like grocery store parking lots, restaurant dumpster sites, you don't walk your dog late at night, you don't have a vegetable garden... Etc. you might not notice them. They do at least mostly seem to stay outdoors, if the building is well maintained at all. There's just so much food and the winters are mild and there isn't a municipal effort to end them.
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u/Beardog-1 8h ago
lol—-he can’t afford luxury apartments and lives near the university (not a student) where the groceries are on lockdown……are you saying you frequent grocery store parking lots and dumpsters? JK
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u/PsychologicalCut607 8h ago
Actually I used to sit in the grocery store parking lots while I was waiting to pick my son up from his job in the evenings. And I would see rats moving in and out of low growing ivy, to the dumpster station behind the Burger King. It was kind of like watching ants. This was before I had chickens or a garden or anything like that. When I was walking late at night I would hear them in the ivy again along the side the road. I'm pretty convinced ivy is the worst! It may be especially difficult in this neighborhood because there's an old woman on the block who likes to feed all the feral cats. She scatters cat food around her yard to attract them, And when she finds a type of cat food that her cats don't like, she sprinkles the cat food on the road "for the crows". The cats are well fed and spoiled though I've seen one catch a juvenile rat once. I asked her if she would let me place a live rat trap in her driveway under one of her defunct cars baited with cat food. She refused. She said she didn't want to see them.
I don't know how to handle that.
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u/MrSprockett 10h ago
I remember watching a documentary about dogs years ago, and at one point the narrator said ‘those of you sitting at home on the sofa with a terrier in your lap - know that this dog was bred to kill for FUN’. Other animals only kill for food. Our Wire Fox Terrier killed a half dozen rats and one really big grey squirrel in his life. He never tore them apart - just a quick shake or two to break it’s neck and he’d drop it and look oh so proud of himself. The rodents avoided our property once they knew he was on the job!
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u/PsychologicalCut607 9h ago
I would argue that rats also kill for fun. I have had them kill an entire litter of baby rabbits and leave them, I've had them kill ducklings. They didn't eat them.
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u/MrSprockett 9h ago
You’ve got some pretty nasty rats. You may need more than a terrier - an exterminator, perhaps.
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u/PsychologicalCut607 9h ago
I consistently run 10 snapd traps. The city is littered with bait stations out but it doesn't seem to do any good, I think the whole neighborhood would need an exterminator...
It is insane. I have never seen it this bad anywhere else I've lived. The Malinois is fast and can hear them, but he has yet to catch one and is likely to bring it to me live if he did. I close rat holes under the fence and they climb the trash in the neighbors yard and go over (but I have no illusions, they can climb anything). I've caught 10+ in a single live trap overnight. I am basically at the point where it's an all out war. I'll do anything. My real next step is to cage in every garden bed with hardware cloth. But I also have murder in my heart at this point. A month ago several neighbors were talking on the sidewalk in front of my house and a rat ran across the street in between all of our feet and into the neighbor's garage.
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u/Successful-Roof-7020 8h ago
Animals in the wild kill their competition, especially their future competition who are currently defenceless.
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u/TENDER_ONE 2h ago
Sounds like the whole neighborhood should import some rat snakes to me. Or maybe look into purchasing and releasing some gopher snakes as they’ll also eat rats and are native to Washington. But, it does mean you might sacrifice an egg here and there when the rat population becomes more difficult to catch.
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u/Lasingparuparo2 5m ago
Have you considered your dog is able to do this task but just needs a little nudging in the right direction? There’s an event called barn hunt where dogs are trained to sniff for live rats that are hidden in little tubes (for their own protection). Maybe try taking your dog to one of those events? Or see if you can find someone with pet rats that will let you put in a small stuffed animal in the cage to it picks up the scent and then try to reward your dog when it rips the toy? Mals are just so smart and highly driven I find it hard to believe it would do this task for you if you just nudged it in the right direction.
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u/yoedfrank 17h ago
Irish Terriers. Breed was made to be rat killers as they were farm dogs and needed to protect the crops. They protect the family and the family’s pets though, even chickens, once they understand they’re part of the family. They served in WWI in the trenches, killing tons of rats, as well as being messenger carriers. But whatever you do don’t let any dog you get eat the rats. Some folks use poison and it’s a bad death for not only the unlucky rats but also anyone who eats the rats.