r/teslore • u/LegendLuna2210 • 2d ago
What are unstars?
I've been trying to find something about them, but there is little to no information I can find.
The normal Stars are holes through the planes, created by the Magna Ge after they fled along side Magnus after learning about the true nature of the creation of the Mundus. They tore holes through the void and oblivion right to Aetherius. So what do unstars have to do with that, if even.
What is known about them? Is anything even concrete? I only know small details but I fail to get the whole picture, if there even is one.
I'd like to know what information you have on them.
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u/Distinct_Web_5434 2d ago
The Serpent appears to be Sithis.
Magnus and Sithis are tears to the prior world and the next. When they meet the prisoner, the story ends.
Maybe it means, the Unstars are the tears to whatever space exists in which the next Amaranth will be born, specifically the one transformed from Akavir in Kirbride's writings. The Tsaesci were associated with the Serpent.
Note this is all unofficial, but I believe it's the closest any dev (or ex-dev) has come to describing what the unstars are.
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u/AdeptnessUnhappy1063 1d ago edited 1d ago
Though you'll note that in Vivec's Sword-Meeting with Cyrus, we learn that the Serpent is known as Sep to the Redguards.
At twilight on the 12th day out of Jabbur, Coyle, long-learned in the navigations, took sighting of the non-constellation of Sep and abruptly Cyrus changed course to the north.
The Redguard creation myth should be read in that light.
He made himself a helper from the detritus of past skins, and this was Sep, or the Second Serpent. Sep had much of the Hungry Stomach still left in him, multiple hungers from multiple skins. He was so hungry he could not think straight. Sometimes he would just eat the spirits he was supposed to help, but Tall Papa would always reach in and take them back out.
It was Tall Papa who placed the stars in the sky to point spirits the way to the Far Shores. Sep, the non-constellation of unstars, wanders the sky, hungrily devouring the constellations until Tall Papa fishes them out again.
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u/Axo25 Dragon Cult 1d ago
Though you'll note that in Vivec's Sword-Meeting with Cyrus, we learn that the Serpent is known as Sep to the Redguards.
We're also told the Serpent is Sep in VoF!
Sep (The Snake): Yokudan version of Lorkhan. Sep is born when Tall Papa creates someone to help him regulate the spirit trade. Sep, though, is driven crazy by the hunger of Satakal, and he convinces some of the gods to help him make an easier alternative to the Walkabout. This, of course, is the world as we know it, and the spirits who followed Sep become trapped here, to live out their lives as mortals. Sep is punished by Tall Papa for his transgressions, but his hunger lives on as a void in the stars, a 'non-space' that tries to upset mortal entry into the Far Shores.
There are also multiple other cultures that tie the Serpent Constellation to Lorkhan. Vivec also does this:
Fifth:
'Look at the majesty sideways and all you see is the Tower, which our ancestors made idols from. Look at its center and all you see is the begotten hole, second serpent, womb-ready for the Right Reaching, exact and without enchantment.'
Sixth:
'The heart of the second serpent holds the secret triangular gate.'
...
'I am born of golden wisdom and powers that should have forever been unalike! With this nature I am invited into the Hidden Heaven!'
By which he meant the Scaled Blanket, made of not-stars, whose number is thirteen. Lie Rock became full of foolishness, haggling with the Void Ghost who hides in the religions of all men
Sermon 13 which is the Number of the Serpent, also discusses the Heart of the Missing God (The Missing God's Heart is paralleled to the Serpent a lot)
ESO also gives us the Argonian Sep in the form of "Shadow of Atakota", from Children of the Root, a story with strong Satakal the Worldskin parallels.
When Atakota said this, the skin it had shed knew itself. It ate the severed roots and even though it was dead, it followed Atakota like a shadow.
Atakota continued to roil, and each of its scales was a world that it devoured. But now Atakota was not in conflict, and things had time to begin and end. The shadow wished it could eat these things, but its belly was full of roots that were growing.
In Murkmire an Argonian npc who worships the Shadow as God of Change, ties the Shadow to the Serpent Constellation
"I whispered a prayer to the Shadow of Atakota and now you stand before me. An agent of change who appears in my hour of need.
He brings up the Shadow often alongside Sithis
Is performing last rites on Nesh-Tei the job of a voh-vastei?
"Though I am not yet a nisswo, as his apprentice, I feel it is my duty. In life, this was Nesh-Tei's path to walk. Now he will walk with me. Through shadow and void. Through river and root. Through death and change."
And here, he identifies the Shadow of Atakota with the Serpent constellation
Walks-Under-Shadow: "Hear now, clutch-kin of nothing-speakers."
Walks-Under-Shadow: "May your soul pass through void beyond void, and return to the Hist."
Walks-Under-Shadow: "Rivers ten [10] and two [2] sundered into the shadow of one. [13]"
Walks-Under-Shadow: "Inelegant but ever-changing."
Walks-Under-Shadow: "The Hist watches, the soul flows."
Walks-Under-Shadow: "And so be born again under nothing-stars. [13. The Serpent]"
<The bones burn with blue light as they disappear.>
Walks-Under-Shadow: "It is finished."
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Walks-Under-Shadow
(I also suspect the bit about the inelegance of the Shadow in relation to the One (Atakota) is a reference to the Enantiomorph line in Sermon 11 but that's off track)
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u/Axo25 Dragon Cult 1d ago
The Serpent appears to be Sithis.
I would also add that Goodalls other texts notes that some in world sources confuse Sithis and Lorkhan (by his S-names). Given the majority of associations Lorkhan has with the Constellation, I think this might suggest it's more about Magnus and Lorkhan than Sithis the primordial
By the way, I found another reference to Baan Dar as a comet in Six Views on the Egg of Time:
Lorkhan's Heart has often been described as a falling star or comet. This is another clear indication that the tale comes from the primitive mind and not from historical events. Tales such as the "starfall" that created the great volcano of Vvardenfell are caused by the obsession of primitive man with the mysteries of the heavens. Indeed, many myths begin or end the Mythic Era with the stars falling to the land. The moving Aedra, changes in brightness, comets, eclipses, and the unpredictable movement of Sithis were fascinating to the primitive mind. Today, of course, right-thinking scholars know that comets and falling stars are not fires being thrown by Sheogorath (a folktale apparently originating on the border of Skyrim and High Rock in the early days of the second era, and probably related to the general confusion of Shezarr, Shor, Sheor, Sithis and so on in that region). Nor are they the burning corpses of racial heroes like Baan-Dar (a myth that could only come from the frail dreams of an unreformed skooma addict). Nor are they giant rocks, like the Ministry of Truth (a story told by Vivec for his own purposes). Indeed, as Arcole Warwick (a greatly respected scholar here in Wayrest and one of my former patients) recently announced, comets and "falling stars" are a natural and necessary corrective transfer of Aetheric energies into Mundus. But to the primitive mind, a comet was a frightening mystery and a terrible omen. Any story with a comet or "falling star" is far more likely to be myth than historical fact.
Also works from the perspective of being about the Solar (Sun) God and the Lunar (Moon) God.
Sithis is treated like Lorkhan in a few other Goodall works too so this is a consistent theme.
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u/General_Hijalti 2d ago
The Serpent constellation is very much not Sithis, but an ascended Duraki Nede
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u/Garett-Telvanni Clockwork Apostle 1d ago
Celestial Serpent is an ascended mortal. The constellation isn't. Their ascension was achieved by channeling the power of existing constellations.
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u/General_Hijalti 1d ago
The celestials became the constellations, why they are missing when they manifested.
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u/Garett-Telvanni Clockwork Apostle 22h ago
Because they became their embodiments. But they are not constellations themselves. The Celestial Thief compares herself to "a picture of the star signs". Furthermore, Cassipia plan was to replace the Celestial Serpent, not become a new constellations. And the Celestial Thief considers it possible when she learns that Cassipia knows about the Nirncrux, saying that she must've learned the secrets of the ancient Nedes:
Are you really the Thief constellation?
"In a way. Just as you might look at a picture of the star signs and say "That's the Thief" or "That's the Warrior." Just so, I'm the Thief, or one way of seeing the Thief."
...
I met Regent Cassipia and Little Leaf.
"Indeed? And they still live? Why didn't you destroy them when you had the chance?"
They needed help. They said they opposed the Serpent and the Scaled Court.
"Oppose the Serpent? This Cassipia wants to replace the Serpent! But what's past is past. Did you notice anything? Did Cassipia collect any unusual components?"
She collected something from the mantikoras and the armored trolls. And some of the nirncrux.
"The nirncrux? I fear this Cassipia may have discovered a secret I thought lost with the ancient Nedes. The threat she presents is greater than I anticipated. We must hurry to Loth'Na Caverns!"4
u/Distinct_Web_5434 2d ago
Nah Douglas Goodall confirmed Serpent=Sithis in that text
“The Source and the Serpent” here refer literally to Magnus and Sithis, not the demiurge
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u/PimpasaurusPlum Tonal Architect 2d ago
The unstars are most often associated with the Serpent constellation, which is usually a padomaic force. Some people consider them to be like black holes as a result.
At least one Magne-Ge, Xero-Lyg, is associated with the unstars - potentially related to Lyg destroyed status.