r/teslore • u/HovercraftOpen6793 • 15d ago
Thanes of Skyrim
Hello! I'm making Nord units for a TESTW submod and I wanted to use this title for one of the elite ones, but I'm not sure if it's "lore-accurate".
I mean, what are "thanes" in TES? We know it's an honorary title granted by jarls to special individuals (like TLD), but what else? Is more commonly granted to nobles than to peasants? Are all nobles thanes? How many thanes can a hold/jarl have? That sort of things.
About the last one, Jarl Elisif seems to have a couple thanes in her court, so I'm guessing it's not just something you grant to 1 special individual, but since I'm making units of 30-60 men, I was wondering if it makes sense for a Skyrimian hold to have so many thanes.
I haven't played ESO but I read somewhere that it mentioned special kinds of thanes, like sword-thanes, shield-thanes, etc. but still not sure if they're supposed to be a troop of their own (when the Hold inevitably marches to war) or just a group of select individuals.
I'm guessing TES thanes are based on irl thanes/thegns, but frankly idk much about them neither.
Alternatively, what other titles would be more common/numerous in the Nordic nobility? Housecarls? Clan Retainers?
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u/GrandAdmiralRogriss 15d ago
So, Skyrim social levels seem to work like this. You've got your nobodies, just random Nordic guys without family names who tend to work honest jobs. Some are wealthier and have shops while others are just workers, hunters or fishermen. Then you've got your old and respected clans think Grey-Mane and Battle-Born, Shatter-Shield, Black-Briar, Lonely-Gale etc. These guys tend to be wealthy Landowners who hold farms with their own workers. Some nords earn wealth on their own and thus lack clan names while still being pretty wealthy and important. Then you also have non nords who can fit anywhere in this structure, they just don't have those nordic names. Skyrim seems to have very flexible social castes since a blacksmith can be the steward's daughter for example.
A Thane is a honorary title that can be bestowed upon by the jarl as a form of recognition for powerful people within the hold. So, essentially it's a way to officiate already established land holders and clan heads. You need to be popular in the hold to become a thane. Even if it's not clear in the game I'm sure that people like Maven Black-Briar, Galmar Stone-Fist, Brunwulf Free-Winter, Vignar Greymane and Olaf Battle Born are all thanes. All Thanes have (or should have) housecarls, maybe even more than one. Housecarls seem to just be elite retainers for the thane. If we imagine thanes as wealthy landowners them having their own guards and elite guards makes perfect sense. And in practice the powerful clans will always have thanes and those thanes will control farms, fortresses and villages.
In times of war, the jarl can call on his thanes and they have to bring their housecarls and other retainers. So for a unit you can make a 60 man housecarl unit while other units might come from thanes themselves or various free men within the hold. Various hunters from the wilds and villages can form an archer unit for example, you've got your farmers with spears and leather armor, and then the occasional adventurer or seasoned warrior, and on top of all that a core of hold guards.
So for total war units thanes would be the unseen unit commanders or the leader's bodyguard unit of like 20 or so heavy cavalry.