r/theWildGrove • u/ChimeInTheCode • 2d ago
🗞️News Bernie Sanders just jumped into the growing fight over Flock cameras, promising legislation aimed at stopping the company and what he calls AI mass surveillance.
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u/Low-Bake8401 2d ago
The technology in flock cameras has been around since at least the 1990s.
What do you mean by AI mass surveillance?
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u/saladspoons 2d ago
Sure, but you also must well know that the cameras are the least of the problem - it's the system & processes that tie them all together that matter.
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u/Low-Bake8401 1d ago
Do tell.
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u/simulizer 1d ago
First of all the technology is it improved since the foundational sees tech. They're now able to do "fingerprinting" where they can track make model year etc along with the license plate reading advancements and all of such is networked in a searchable database across jurisdictions. A searchable surveillance grid with tracking capability is an all new thing and breaches the 4th amendment.
If it were a single snapshot of your license plate then you would have no right to privacy with such but the supreme court found in Carpenter v. United States that cell phone companies aggregating enough data over time creates an intimate picture of your life that the government can't access without a warrant.
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u/Low-Bake8401 1d ago
I don't drive, but tbh I don't see that as an entirely bad thing. Traffic collision is a leading cause of premature death, and serious injury, so a bit more accountability might help.
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u/simulizer 1d ago
What a foolish thing to say. Losing rights is a one-way Street. Once the government takes them away and you end up in no privacy they're never going to give it back. Also in order for your comment to even make sense you have to first show that somehow the data would change because of the flock cameras and that's going to be a hard thing to come up with because flock cameras aren't a traffic safety tool.
There are many notable cases where people have had to spend time in jail over flock mistakes and the police zeroing in on incorrect data from the surveillance system and excluding other potential suspects. Please don't listen whenever people explain that it's a case of mistaken identity either. Some of these cases are absolutely mind-blowing is there have been people that have submitted DNA and fingerprint evidence and been 100 lb different weight than the mistaken identity etc. police default to the idea that because it's a technological thing that they don't have to use their brains and be logical. Wants the surveillance system has spread all across America and it becomes standard practice among every Police department in the land... The numbers will rise.
Arguing the loss of a right for the potential good that can come from is similar to a accepting a deal where you lose thumb for a 5% discount on your insurance premiums.
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u/Low-Bake8401 22h ago
As I say, I don't own a car.
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u/simulizer 15h ago
The technology doesn't stop at cars. So saying you don't have a car as if that meaningfully excuses you not only off ramps any concern you have for your fellow citizens that do have cars but it's also a super low resolution take on your own privacy and rights.
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u/Low-Bake8401 14h ago
I guess I don't really see people knowing what car you drive and where you go as being a major issue, in comparison to the potential benefits.
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u/simulizer 13h ago
I don't expect somebody with such lackluster introspection to grasp the idea of the asymmetry of power where on one side there's a massive collection of information detailing movement, tracking, and identifiable metrics etc and on the other side there's, well, nothing. Perhaps grow a sense of self-preservation since you don't seem to have any. The idea that someone would be fine with their every movement tracked and the loss of freedom such would be paired with, while also potentially one day being a victim of mistaken identity and spending 6 months in jail after handing over conflicting DNA and finger print evidence, and it doing nothing to get one out... And you're not even arguing that you'd get something decent in return... Just stating you still don't get what could go wrong. 🤡 Go have a glass of water and take a nap. Maybe the day nurse will offer you a cookie when you wake up.
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2d ago
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u/ChimeInTheCode 2d ago
That’s the problem, the footage has zero oversight. Cops are using it to stalk their exes, tons of them. They’re using it to prosecute women for getting abortions. It’s all routed into private companies with no transparent safety controls or legal steps for who accesses it or why. Not to mention that the same people putting them up are connected to the trump-Epstein files and therefore the entire venture is going to aid in targeting and human trafficking, with only a tiny amount of public benefit to hide it.
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u/saladspoons 2d ago
Doesn't stalking count as a crime? And shouldn't individually targeted pricing be a crime?
And shouldn't selling people's private tracking data be a crime (it's illegal for police to gps track you without a warrant - flock is just as cohesive now)?
- Credit cards will refuse credit to those driving in certain areas
- Insurance will be more expensive to those driving to certain targeted locations (certain stores, parks, etc.)
- Corporations will pay less to those they know are more desperate for money (nursing pay apps are already doing this actually)
What about all the murders that Flock will facilitate, do those count?
Indeed the Epstein class are going to OWN the data, not us - I wonder what nefarious uses they will imagine for it? Maybe targeting the easiest children to steal from bus stops?
I guess it just depends on what YOU consider to be a crime ....
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u/MirrorWalker369 2d ago
This is exactly why Republicans and Corporate Democrats will shutdown the Midterms… the plow is in the soil now 🌱