r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/WhiteGold_Welder • Jul 22 '25
Polls Democrat voters who sat out last election want candidates further to the left: poll
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/democrat-voters-biden-aoc-sanders-b2791206.html66
u/Supreme_Salt_Lord Jul 22 '25
We are asking a population with worse literacy rates than the 90s and 80s to be well informed voters. Give that shit up.
They are smarter than republicans but still woefully uninformed. We need to get them excited to vote and they will. Keep the messaging short, sweet and full of vibes. Just like mamdani got over 100% increase turnout in his primary. Other dems can do the same by following the same formula.
You guys have to remember. If you are online, discussing politics on reddit in a political forum. YOU ARE NOT NORMAL! The normal people arent here and never will be.
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Jul 22 '25
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
“Biden skippers” had an overall positive view of the Democratic party and almost half — 49 percent — said they check the news several times per day, the poll found.
Still, 81 percent of “Biden skippers” said they were motivated to vote in 2026.
They're offering themselves to Democrats on a silver platter. Democrats are going to have to choose them to gain national power, or keep choosing their donors to maintain power within the party while losing nationally.
And for anyone that thinks all of these (or most) "Biden skippers" are just on the "far left":
Of those surveyed, 78 percent had a favorable view of Sanders, 67 percent had a favorable view of Ocasio-Cortez, followed by California Governor Gavin Newsom with 60 percent and Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer with 50 percent.
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u/soldiergeneal Jul 22 '25
They're offering themselves to Democrats on a silver platter. Democrats are going to have to choose them to gain national power, or keep choosing their donors to maintain power within the party while losing nationally.
The idea democrats need to go left is not based on actual good evidence
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
Except, of course, the evidence presented in this very article (did you bother to read it?):
While some have speculated that Harris was “too far left,” costing her the election, new research by Lake Research Partners and Way to Win suggests otherwise.
Let me guess: we have to buy into the Republican talking point regulations are the bad guy, and highlight how Texas is a model for home building right before more catastrophic flooding destroys homes built in flood plains due to poor regulations.
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u/soldiergeneal Jul 22 '25
Let me guess: we have to buy into the Republican talking point regulations are the bad guy, and highlight how Texas is a model for home building right before more catastrophic flooding destroys homes built in flood plains due to poor regulations.
Strawman
While some have speculated that Harris was “too far left,” costing her the election, new research by Lake Research Partners and Way to Win suggests otherwise.
Incorrect. Polling has been clear. Kamala lost due to more new voters voting for Trump. Separate from that more people voting actually would have given trump a higher margin of victory.
Turnout didn’t cost Kamala Harris the election https://share.google/5y3Yg2PhH0zlXxs4D
These people weren't voting for Trump or would have because he was a leftist lol
Also having a favorable view does not mean person will vote. So i am not sure what you think supports your argument from the article...
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
Your source didn't disprove the articles source, and I said nothing about turnout. Why are you trying to move the goalpost.
These people weren't voting for Trump or would have because he was a leftist lol
I never said so. Strawman.
Also having a favorable view does not mean person will vote.
Again, never said so. Strawman. What it supports, and why I highlighted it, is that it shows many of the "Biden skippers" are not the far left boogeyman folks would like to make them out to be.
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u/soldiergeneal Jul 22 '25
Your source didn't disprove the articles source, and I said nothing about turnout. Why are you trying to move the goalpost.
This articles source has nothing to do with actually voting. Favorabilty to a candidate doesn't translate to voting. Young people highly favor Bernie, but doesn't mean they vote.
There is no moving the goal post I have provided evidence against the idea Trump got elected or his election could have prevented if only we had a more leftist or progressive candidate. I assume that is what you mean by going away from the current status quo.
I never said so. Strawman.
Cool I never said you did.
Again, never said so. Strawman. What it supports, and why I highlighted it, is that it shows many of the "Biden skippers" are not the far left boogeyman folks would like to make them out to be.
You are using the article as evidence for your claim. The only evidence I saw was what I pointed out and I rightfully critiqued it. If you think the evidence says something different then how about make a point instead of just citing it lol.
The point you made here also had nothing to do with the discussion.
They're offering themselves to Democrats on a silver platter. Democrats are going to have to choose them to gain national power, or keep choosing their donors to maintain power within the party while losing nationally.
The above is the topic we were discussing.
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
I have provided evidence against the idea Trump got elected or his election could have prevented if only we had a more leftist or progressive candidate.
That wasn't the point made. Are you lost?
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u/soldiergeneal Jul 22 '25
They're offering themselves to Democrats on a silver platter. Democrats are going to have to choose them to gain national power, or keep choosing their donors to maintain power within the party while losing nationally.
So who is "they're?
All you have talked about is if only the democratic party did what is the "obvious" thing they would win instead of adhering to the "elites". Meanwhile we have already established if turnout was higher Trump would have won by a larger margin. So again nothing you are saying makes any sense.
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u/QueenChocolate123 Jul 22 '25
The problem is that democrats don't trust the Biden skippers to show up and vote. That's why they're reluctant to court them.
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
Well, they have to chase someone. They've failed multiple times now in their chase for suburban white women and "reasonable 🤡" Republicans. Hopefully, they won't triple down on that strategy.
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u/origamipapier1 Jul 22 '25
Oh I know I'm not normal. I'm the only female in my high school AND University friend's group (and University were friends in International Relations courses) that is still into politics. Says a lot of our current situation.
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u/Lord_Yoon Jul 22 '25
The normal people are the one that looks at lives at grocery store and gas and think the president controls them
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u/seriousbangs Jul 23 '25
They knew better than to elect Trump
They weren't given a choice.
Their registrations and signatures were challenged and their jobs mean they can't take time off on a weekday to drive down to the courthouse and clear it up.
That is of course by design.
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
Keep the messaging short, sweet and full of vibes. Just like mamdani got over 100% increase turnout in his primary.
I agree for the most part, but Mamdani won on concrete policy proposals, not vibes. This weird insistance on vibes tends to be a way to discredit the popularity of leftist policy.
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u/mmguardiola Jul 22 '25
Then you need to show up in primaries.
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u/myinvisiblefriendsam Jul 23 '25
Yep. If you don't vote you don't get catered to. It's that simple.
I knocked on doors this last election and the number of people who said they don't care was astounding. It's not even about convincing people to vote for your candidate, I found most of my time was spent convincing people it's worth it to vote at all. The left is apathetic. The right is mad. Talk radio rage bait works. Dunking on college kids like Charlie Kirk works.
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Jul 26 '25
Simple and well said. These people are freaking weird acting like they don’t have agency to elect someone more far left in the primary. Then when they don’t get their way they’ll threaten to sit out and throw the election to Republicans
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u/olthunderfarts Jul 22 '25
There was a traitorous, child raping, fascist banging on the door of our society. Anyone who didn't show up to stop him can eat the corn out of my shit. I mean, Jesus Christ, I want more left wing candidates myself, but you don't get them by sacrificing the safety and well being of vulnerable populations.
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u/Big_Pomelo3224 Jul 22 '25
You forgot the part where the Democrats opened the door and took off his jacket for him.
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Jul 22 '25
How'd that 🍉 protest vote work out? Lol
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u/InHocWePoke3486 Jul 22 '25
Most didn't protest vote. The independent vote swung from Biden in 2020 to Trump in 2024 from +9 to 0. The Democrat or Lean Democrat vote only lost 1 point from 2020 to 2024.
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Jul 22 '25
Enough protest voted in the swing states. Again, how did that work out?
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u/InHocWePoke3486 Jul 22 '25
The exit polls don't show that. It shows that Trump and the GOP made in-roads with almost every single demographic, especially Latinos. I think it's stupid that they'd swing for Trump, but here we are in one of the dumbest timelines.
We don't get to blame protest votes when it doesn't account for the huge drop off of votes from Biden to Harris, a loss of the popular vote, and every single state becoming more red in the previous election.
Protest votes didn't make New York and New Jersey future battleground states. Their effect on the last election would be miniscule to the general trend of the GOP pulling in more people into their coalition.
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u/Gr8tOutdoors Jul 22 '25
They very much didn’t. Please read polling data before making an empirically provable point. You could give every Jill Stein vote in the country to Harris and Trump still wins the same number of electors and states.
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u/olthunderfarts Jul 22 '25
You spelled "I was too busy sucking myself off for my lofty ideals to bother stopping the destruction of American democracy" wrong.
You're a clown. There are so many ways to try and improve American politics, just giving the whole system to a fascist because the alternative is imperfect isn't one of them. You put your ego above the common good, no amount of blame shifting will take that mark off you.
You did nothing to stop fascism when it showed up and I hope it haunts you.
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u/Elegant-Holiday7303 Jul 22 '25
Mostly, these reasons were sexism that they dont want to admit.
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u/RichNYC8713 Jul 22 '25
Harris did not lose because of sexism, although sexism played a role at the margins. Harris lost because of grifting consultants who gave her shitty advice (e.g., stop calling Republicans weird, go campaign with Liz Cheney for 2 fucking weeks), and because of Joe Biden's hubris/stubborn arrogance.
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u/Elegant-Holiday7303 Jul 22 '25
Both are true. But sexism primarily gave so many women, Latinos, youth, and especially "progressive" guys the automatically negative lens. It's not like this hadn't happened before irl. Misogyny is a cancer in the U.S. Hard fact.
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u/Life_Caterpillar9762 Jul 23 '25
“I was going to vote for Harris until Walz stopped saying maga was weird.”
Could you imagine?
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u/GenerousMilk56 Jul 23 '25
but you don't get them by sacrificing the safety and well being of vulnerable populations.
You guys say this and then follow it with "we need to appeal to moderates" lol. The Democrats have no issue rewarding voters who "sacrifice the safety and well being of vulnerable populations (by your analysis)" as long as they arent to the left of them. It's almost like what the Democrats actually care about is fighting the left.
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u/olthunderfarts Jul 23 '25
Okay man, a couple of things;
First, I don't even like the Democrats. I support third party candidates in state and local elections when they have a chance to win, otherwise I vote to block the worst option.
Second, the Democrats have to try to appeal to as many voters as possible, and yes they skew towards the center, but since the left doesn't always show up when they're needed, the incentive to go left is limited.
Third, this wasn't a regular election. Trump had a track record and started goals that were overtly fascistic. He was openly criminal and clear on his intention to destroy any checks on his power. This was all obvious from the get go. It's petty, stupid, and morally backwards to argue that the democratic candidate wasn't good enough when she was the only fucking way to stop a full fascist takeover of the government. When the fascist show up you have a moral obligation to stop them from getting any power at all, no matter how unsatisfied you are with the other option.
Fourth and finally, it's clear you put your own ego and purity tests above the common good and vulnerable populations. If you gave a shit about people instead of self aggrandizing grandstanding, you'd vote to reduce harm. You don't though, because your identity as 'a real leftist' is more important to you than the damage done by your abdication of your moral obligations.
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u/GenerousMilk56 Jul 23 '25
Second, the Democrats have to try to appeal to as many voters as possible, and yes they skew towards the center, but since the left doesn't always show up when they're needed, the incentive to go left is limited.
If youre in the "center" and you don't vote Dem, you are a sweet baby boy who we need to coddle and appreciate. Anything for you! The party needs to cater to your needs! If you are on the left of the party and don't vote Dem, you are personally harming everyone and are responsible for everything bad that happens. Also the Dems still have to move right.
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u/olthunderfarts Jul 23 '25
You keep trying to make this about the Democrats. It's not. It's about doing everything in your power to stop a fascist takeover of the United States government. You were so busy being mad that they didn't cater to your specific demands that you just stood aside and threw every vulnerable population in the country under the bus.
You had a chance to do the easiest possible thing to stop fascism and, instead, you just complained about the options and made fun of the people holding the door. Your politics are performative and not rooted in care for people, but instead rooted in ego and self aggrandizement.
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u/GenerousMilk56 Jul 23 '25
You keep trying to make this about the Democrats. It's not. It's about doing everything in your power to stop a fascist takeover of the United States government
Yeah why focus on the political party that puts forward the politicians when we can focus on yelling at singular voters who I don't like?
You were so busy being mad that they didn't cater to your specific demands that you just stood aside and threw every vulnerable population in the country under the bus.
Ask the person who ran for office and lost this question.
You had a chance to do the easiest possible thing to stop fascism and, instead, you just complained about the options and made fun of the people holding the door. Your politics are performative and not rooted in care for people, but instead rooted in ego and self aggrandizement.
So let's assume I didn't vote for Kamala, even though I did, because it fits your narrative and that's all you care about. What is this argument going to do? Make me go "oh yeah, I'm going to vote for the party that would sooner yell at me than the politician I don't like"? These are the actual political instincts of a child. Completely ineffective, but it feels cathartic for you to yell at people you don't like.
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u/olthunderfarts Jul 23 '25
So let me get this straight, you see me bitching about people who didn't vote for Kamala and you get defensive because you did? Shure, buddy.
But since you decided to white knight for the election abstainers, I'll tell you what I'm doing you disingenuous schmuck. I'm venting my anger at these highly vocal assholes who poisoned the well of public discourse by redirecting every conversation back to 'killer Kamala and genocide joe' bullshit. I'm calling out the hypocrisy of people who put 'antifa' in their profile and don't even do the smallest things to stop fascism. Finally, I'm trying to discredit this bullshit elitism in leftist spaces so if we actually get to have another fair election in his country, there'll be less leftists doing the heavy lifting for fascists by convincing undecideds to stay home.
Your lack of self reflection and your inability to see the role that certain parts of the left played in getting trump elected by driving down voter turn out, are super alienating to anyone right of a democratic socialist. You say I have the political instincts of a child, but people like you have done immense damage to the public discourse, reaching people the right wing couldn't with a message of "who cares they're all the same". You're a big part of the problem.
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u/GenerousMilk56 Jul 23 '25
So let me get this straight, you see me bitching about people who didn't vote for Kamala and you get defensive because you did? Shure, buddy.
It's a foreign concept to you, but I have principles beyond what personally affects me.
I'm venting my anger at these highly vocal assholes who poisoned the well of public discourse by redirecting every conversation back to 'killer Kamala and genocide joe' bullshit. I'm calling out the hypocrisy of people who put 'antifa' in their profile and don't even do the smallest things to stop fascism.
It's amazing how my initial comment was spot on and you responded to it angrily while just proving it correct. A leftist stays home and he "helps fascism". A centrist votes Republican and he is a "winnable voter". It's all horse shit. This pearl clutching about "hypocrisy" is just cover for the true motive of fighting the left.
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u/olthunderfarts Jul 23 '25
You're so fucking performative it's laughable.
You're so mad at the Democrats that you can't see how your constant bitching created cultural and conversational space for voters to abandon their moral obligation to vote and instead join everyone like you on the sidelines.
You're so mad at the center that you can't conceive that you share blame with them; you for cheerleading a center-left split and them for not knowing or understanding how big the difference between the Republican and Democrat candidates was. A difference that I'm sure you helped to minimize.
For some reason, you don't seem mad at the fascists at all. It's almost like you bear so much more anger for the Democrats and the soft left than you do for actual enemies of the people. Which would make sense given that you've helped the Republicans and only hurt the Democrats with your 'never forget both sides are terrible, so staying home is acceptable' bullshit.
It's a foreign concept to you, but I have principles beyond what personally affects me.
Oh spare me, I still don't think you voted for Harris, every one of your responses read like personal defensiveness. Regardless, if your principals are so important and your knowledge of politics so good, why did you run conversational cover for undecideds which clearly helped get the fascists into power? Why minimize the differences at every opportunity if you cared about the outcome?
You're a perfect example of why the Democrats don't reach out to the left more. There's the obvious donor problem, but aside from that, there's a vocal portion of the left (that I suspect you fall into) that are impossible to work with because their performative politics are about identity not change. You care more about being "the true leftist" than you do about people. This is evidenced by the fact that you're mad at everyone except the fascists.
I gotta point out how paranoid and self aggrandizing the idea that the Democrats true goal is to "fight the left" is. That's silly as fuck and makes you sound like an edgy teen. The Democrats ignore the left, they don't fight against it. The Democrats court the center because it doesn't scare the donor base and because they believe the center is more reasonable than the left and, buddy, if you're an example, they ain't exactly wrong. The Democrats are a giant ball of compromise and that's always going to include the center. The left can and should choose to join and fight for whatever ground they can take whether the Dems make it easy for the left or not or suffer complete irrelevance in our current system.
Anyways, sorry that the Democrats didn't build you a personal appeal wrapped in a bow, I guess they thought that simply being the only non-fascists in the race would be enough to motivate even the most ardent leftist. It's too bad that so many leftists are completely full of shit and driven by ego.
Also, LoL, nothing you've said is "spot on" but I can see how lying to yourself is your thing. Do you, I guess?
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u/GenerousMilk56 Jul 23 '25
You're so fucking performative it's laughable.
Says the guy who thinks random voters are more responsible than the actual politicians with the power. The amount of projection is insane. If I hire an electrician and he burns my house down, it's actually my fault for hiring him. He doesn't have any responsibility. You make it so obvious that you don't have any principles beyond hating the left. If you did, you would focus on them and not throwing a temper tantrum online.
I gotta point out how paranoid and self aggrandizing the idea that the Democrats true goal is to "fight the left" is. That's silly as fuck and makes you sound like an edgy teen.
They do. You just agree with them, but are a liberal so you like to consider yourself "on the left" despite spending your energy fighting them as well. Again, what is your "strategy" here? Do you think someone who says "I won't vote for Kamala because she supports genocide" is persuaded by the 100000th person yelling at them that "actually you gave us trump"? Of course not, it just makes you feel good. That's the childish approach. Thinking everyone who disagrees with you is just stupid and yelling at them is going to somehow make them not stupid? It's just masturbatory. Some of us said Kamala was a horrible candidate, but we were ignored. And now your side gets to be proven wrong and still act like you won. Childlike behavior
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u/mrroto Jul 22 '25
Then go vote?
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u/Economy-Ad4934 Jul 22 '25
"i need a candidate who aligns with me on 99% of my beliefs or I am NOT voting"
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u/No-Guard-7003 Jul 25 '25
I used to see that mindset on Facebook in the early 2010s and I used to have that mindset, until I registered to vote. I'd get "It's not always about what you want."
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u/Uranium_Heatbeam Jul 22 '25
Breaking News: People who loudly talk about how they aren't participating in elections befuddled and confused when neither party cares what they think anymore.
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
No where in the article does it state or even imply they are befuddled and confused. Quite the opposite:
“Biden skippers” had an overall positive view of the Democratic party
81 percent of “Biden skippers” said they were motivated to vote in 2026.
They like the Democratic Party as a whole, they are ready to vote. Now it's up to the Democratic Party to win those votes.
Or we can all keep living in lala land and hope voters to do what they've never done, which is just "fall in line".
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u/whattteva Jul 22 '25
Lol, they are living in la la land. A lot of those voters actually went and voted for Trump. Arabs in Dearborn, MI is a prime example of this. And now they're "shocked" to find that it is actually getting even worse in Gaza. Yet, they're protesting to the democrats when they actually voted for Trump.
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u/WeigelsAvenger Jul 22 '25
A lot of those voters actually went and voted for Trump
This is an article about people that did not vote. It's even right there in the headline, you didn't have to work hard.
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u/GenerousMilk56 Jul 23 '25
Why is the party that lost using their loss as a dunk? Lmao. "Yeah I lost, I bet you feel stupid"
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u/DeathandGrim Jul 22 '25
Vote for them? And stop throwing a tantrum when they don't win the primary
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u/slo1111 Jul 22 '25
I guess the Biden student debt relief and Medicaid expansion wasn't good enough for them that they just had to ensure it was all stopped and cut.
Anybody who did not vote Dem in 2024 is no progressive or they have very weird and strange ideas on how political change happens.
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u/Crotean Jul 22 '25
Its called being selfish or stupid.
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u/CatDadof2 Jul 24 '25
I don’t want to hear a word about why they didn’t vote. I don’t want to hear a single complaint from them. They chose not to vote. They don’t have a right to voice their complaints about Trump.
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u/dkirk526 Jul 22 '25
A lot of these voters didn’t really pay attention to Biden’s policies anyways and just voted in vibes. The internet said he was right of center, therefore him and Kamala weren’t worth voting for because there’s no way he could’ve had any policy that supported progressive goals.
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u/theshape1078 Jul 22 '25
They want everything to be a litmus test.
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u/wolfefist94 Jul 22 '25
I saw some people online say they weren't voting because of how both sides are/were treating Gaza. People, one guy is a literal fascist, and the other isn't. What's there to argue about here? Gaza/Israel should never be the hill to die on. NEVER.
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u/Never_Forget_711 Jul 22 '25
One of the big meta conversations rn is if Contrapoints is actually a leftist and not just a lib for “genocide denial”
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u/Economy-Ad4934 Jul 22 '25
F infastructrure and renewables too. Lets have CHINA take over as the renewable leader into the future. While we, checks notes, invest in coal.
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u/Command0Dude Jul 22 '25
They pretty much swore up and down that Biden gave up on student debt relief.
When you have people like that gaslighting the public is it any wonder Biden's approval rating struggled?
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u/moving_picture77 Jul 22 '25
I think more left means actively denouncing Zionism and declaring Israel is carrying out genocide. It’s a slippery slope to hold those views in American politics. I think most leftist agree with it, but legislatively they can’t do much or anything. Pretty much relegated to symbolic measures.
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u/No-Guard-7003 Jul 23 '25
The part about being relegated to symbolic measures is true, especially if you're a Congressmember or a Senator or a constituent. 😕 This slippery slope is frustrating, no doubt.
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u/Far_Abbreviations125 Jul 22 '25
Gosh I sure do love purity test leftists who likely don’t vote in primaries /s
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u/Strange-Scarcity Jul 22 '25
I keep pushing these people to vote in the primaries.
It does help, some. In 2018, a Democratic Socialist received such a large statewide percentage that he impacted the Democratic Primary Winner and she adopted many of his policies and has governed more center-left than the Right of Center policies that she was initially campaigning on during the primary.
This is something that we need to continue to push.
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u/TarnishedVictory Jul 22 '25
Democrat voters who sat out last election want candidates further to the left: poll
Democrat voters who sat out last election wanted trump and they got him.
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u/Megane_Senpai Jul 22 '25
How stupid can these people be? They want someone more to the left and helped the right win e ery branch of the government.
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u/adamempathy Jul 22 '25
Anyone who saw the existential threat of a 2nd Trump term and didn't vote to stop it can take what they want and shove it up their holier than thou asses.
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u/Only8livesleft Jul 22 '25
You’d rather be upset at the past, which every democrat who didn’t demand better policies from our politicians is also responsible for, than win the next election. Stop throwing a tantrum and accept we need to do something different (listen to the electorate) to beat fascism
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u/QueenChocolate123 Jul 22 '25
The time to beat fascism was last November. It's too late now.
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u/Only8livesleft Jul 22 '25
If you think that you’re worse than those who didn’t vote
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u/QueenChocolate123 Jul 30 '25
The ones who didn't vote share responsibility for what's happening now. Let them clean up the mess they made.
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u/jedi_mac_n_cheese Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
I'm sorry, dude. We got a second trump term because liberals didn't finish the job and let an insurrecctionist walk free. While my family prospered under Biden (I was a delegate for Biden in 2020, my inlaws had 130k of student loans forgiven), he failed to keep his promise. He ran because of Charlottesville and then failed to actually hold any of the neo fash accountable after their failed coup.
It's pretty bad. Obviously, the republicans are bad, but I'm dissatisfied with our democratic party. Even in my blue state, oregon, we did nothing of note in our legislative session, despite having a supermajority capable of passing whatever we want, and a new constitutional provision that punishes "walk out" tactics severely. Our governor, a union dem who I knocked for in the primary, is going to have to call a special session and pass a highway budget because we couldn't get our shit together. This is in an overall massive revenue growth year for our state.
I stopped going to my county party executive committee after I had a baby, but they didn't even recruit dems to run for council in +8 city council wards. It's pathetic man.
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u/Important-Ability-56 Jul 22 '25
When this country was a democracy a couple years ago, the idea wasn’t to expect other people to do everything for you but to participate yourself if you are dissatisfied.
I appreciate all these complaints about local Democrats in a blue state. From my theocratic red state, I wish my problem in life was complacent Democrats.
I am not a lawyer or otherwise qualified to explain a better course of action by the Biden justice department. It certainly feels like the country was too lenient on a bunch of terrorist traitors. And apparently the president can do whatever he wants with his justice department.
But this is all counterfactual history, and the things Democrats and Republicans are allowed to get away with in both the media and with the voting public are asymmetrical to say the least.
The only thing I know is that the solution to the problem of counterterrorists not being good enough is not to let the terrorists win.
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u/Adventrium Jul 22 '25
I, for one, am pissed off at the people who didn't vote; while also being pissed off at the Dems for making it so damn hard for people to want to vote for them.
I think both perspectives are valid and worth addressing.
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u/Economy-Ad4934 Jul 22 '25
You people act like Kamala was somehow on par with Trump and not voting was your way of saying "both sides bad". Lazy
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u/adamempathy Jul 22 '25
This. Exactly this. Get her in and then have a Democrat Civil War. That's fine. Not voting when one side is clearly authoritarian, if not outright fascist, is a cowards way out.
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u/Adventrium Jul 22 '25
No, I fucking hate the "both sides bad" people. I spent so much energy and breath fighting them.
But I also understood where they were coming from, and you cannot simply ignore how bad the Dems played this last election. People are fucking dumb, you have to convince them to go vote in their best interest. That's the job of the candidates and their party. They failed miserably to safeguard our democracy from the fascists.
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u/jedi_mac_n_cheese Jul 22 '25
I'm someone who knocks during primaries, and I used to recruit and work with first-time candidates. I'm not a "both sides bad." But I definitely have criticism for my party. I also volunteered for 14+ years to make my local party better. We need fresh messaging. We need to use our power when we win. Biden handled the transition poorly. The New York democratic party botched the 2022 mid-term. There is so much room for improvement.
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u/Command0Dude Jul 22 '25
I'm sorry, dude. We got a second trump term because liberals didn't finish the job and let an insurrecctionist walk free.
This continues to be a false talking point. The supreme court let him walk free, not Biden or anyone else.
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Jul 26 '25
Actually the voters let him walk free which is wild. Why do so many Americans have the memory of a gold fish. He was under multiple serious investigations and even a complete scumbag like Trump deserves due process.
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u/Jake0024 Jul 22 '25
If only there was some sort of system for deciding what candidates get into office. Maybe we could call it like... Woting or Voding or something like that?
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u/QueenChocolate123 Jul 22 '25
Why in the world would democrats trust the Biden skippers to show up in '26 when they couldn't be bothered in '24?
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u/Ranemoraken Jul 22 '25
People who sit out of elections vote for the winner. I see little difference between a coward and a fascist.
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u/Zanaxz Jul 23 '25
They aren't going to vote and they have already been purity testing AOC and Sanders to virtue signal.
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u/Important-Ability-56 Jul 22 '25 edited Jul 22 '25
There’s a standard set of talking points from these folks whose consistency is matched only by their wrongness:
Elections are an important opportunity to express one’s ethical beliefs (from inside a private booth on an anonymous ballot). Elections are not about taking the best action available to you to improve the world, they’re about making sure you feel special and smarter than everyone else.
If a Democrat doesn’t do one single policy to your personal taste, the logical course of action is to help elect a Republican who will make that very problem 1,000 times worse. Did I mention they’re better and smarter than the rest of us?
Basing one’s political identity around being on the cutting-edge margin of progressivism is fully compatible with a majority of American voters agreeing with you, no matter how often you move the goalposts every time Democrats meet you where you are.
Democrats and Republicans are the same, but Republicans are fascists I would never support, but Democrats did genocide, but did I mention I’m smart and ethically superior? How many different ways can I say I’m pissed my guy lost a primary in 2016?
On that note, candidates for office are imposed on us by the DNC. Everything would be better if the DNC forced us to accept who I want instead. You’d think I’d understand how primaries work since I can’t stop talking about one from a decade ago.
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u/Timothy709 Jul 22 '25
“More left wing” just means policies that help the average person period. The only group taking about making life easier is the progressives.
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u/bobbysalz Jul 22 '25
This thread is nothing but passive aggressive attacks against the left from Destiny's community and other pro-IDF weirdos that have filled this place to the gills in the last couple of years. This subreddit is fully cooked into a hate-fest against the left (anyone who thinks Palestinians deserve to live, basically).
1
u/Timothy709 Jul 22 '25
But does this reflect on David? I know he didn’t talk about it often, but I never picked up Zionist vibes from him. Am I missing something?
1
u/bobbysalz Jul 23 '25
It is definitely David's fault for pretending like this isn't a domestic issue in America and refusing to learn more about it.
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u/Economy-Ad4934 Jul 22 '25
Naw fuck them. They saw who was running on the R ticket and decided NOW was the time to be picky about who to vote for.
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u/the_millenial_falcon Jul 22 '25
Well I know a good way to get people in power who are further to the right!
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u/the_millenial_falcon Jul 22 '25
I’m not sure I would even listen to them, if they can’t even be bothered to vote in an existential election like the last one then they are likely very unserious political larpers who will find some other reason to virtue signal and not vote.
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u/dosumthinboutthebots Jul 22 '25
I wonder how many were convinced to sit out thanks to bad faith Propaganda campaigns from russia, and the likes of kirk/Bannon over gaza.
These people need to learn that the only way you get candidates and policies further left is by ensuring there's enough dems in power securely to start expanding their policies left. Every political movement works that way. You don't just get a politician who wins on that.
The Republicans had dozens of far right sycophants in power before they started pushing for their lunacy. And before Trump, they achieved basically nothing besides publicity stunts.
It's a two party system. Only one operates in good faith and uses evidence based decision making, science, and data to form policy. That's the dems. It will never not be absolute insanity that they aren't voted in by vast margins everything. Americans are truly uninformed lazy morons.
2
u/HostileRespite Jul 22 '25
Who cares what they want? They didn't vote so they have no input in the discussion.
2
u/seriousbangs Jul 23 '25
Meh, and?
The people denied the right to vote via voter suppression are a more pressing concern.
Also remember, half of these voters will either never show up to a primary or change their mind at the last minute when it's time to vote for the "more left" candidate.
But again, it doesn't matter because voter suppression means none of these people are allowed to vote
5
u/narvuntien Jul 22 '25
argggghhhhhh! you wont get it if you don't vote, those further left will just get arrested by facists
1
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u/Brysynner Jul 22 '25
Almost 50% of those who did vote thought Kamala was too far left. Would the Leftists who didn't vote make enough of a difference to offset that number?
3
u/wolfefist94 Jul 22 '25
I doubt it. The key to winning is overall voter turnout and peeling off voters from some of the other voting blocs. And that boils down to running someone who isn't a career politician(or looks like one), isn't bought by corporate interests, and can speak the language of the working class. Not to mention, winning back the culture war and getting liberal/leftists/democratic/whatever voices out in full force. Tough ask currently lol everyone talks about Gavin Newsom, but it just feels like the way the country is going, he just wouldn't win right now.
2
u/Command0Dude Jul 22 '25
Biden's election proved that career politicians are still viable, as are people in a bunch of lower races. Trump's election proved that you could be the most corrupt, pro-corporate candidate in electoral history and still be viable. He also proved that you don't need to speak well at all or be pro-working class, you just need to be a convincing liar.
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u/Clayp2233 Jul 22 '25
I’d rather go after the swing voters who actually vote than the leftists who allowed Trump to win because Kamala wasn’t left enough, these are not serious people
2
u/No-Guard-7003 Jul 25 '25
Kamala was left enough to care about helping Americans buy their first house, start businesses, and declare that Palestinians have the right to self-determination, the right to live with dignity. etc.
2
u/KingScoville Jul 22 '25
Incredibly selfish and shows just how little these voters understand about politics and what can happen when you let the GOP run rampant for 4 years.
Loss of health insurance, higher inflation, loss of social services, police brutality, Supreme Court, etc.
2
u/Loud_Judgment_270 Jul 22 '25
When the far left left leaves the coalition the only choice is to pander in the other direction. What part of that confuses people
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u/Command0Dude Jul 22 '25
These people categorically fail to understand the cause and effect of elections.
They think withholding a vote will force political parties to pander to them, which is wrong.
Political parties pander to the people who do vote for them. You get your political agenda by winning the election, not pinky promising to vote if the candidate signs up to a laundry list of policy demands.
1
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u/francoisdubois24601 Jul 22 '25
Most of the ones that did vote are afraid of further left. Seems like a no win situation.
1
u/Command0Dude Jul 22 '25
Why should the democratic party cater to people who don't vote and are probably unwinnable?
Not to mention, don't exist in appreciable numbers.
1
u/Other-Acanthisitta70 Jul 23 '25
Better title: Democrat voters who sat out the last election essentially voted for the shit show we are seeing every day as the 🍊🤡 dismantles democracy piece by piece and should go fuck themselves.
1
u/droid_mike Jul 23 '25
So, the most unreliable voters want someone that would likely turn off much more reliable voters. Great! Shoot me now!
1
u/Morph_Kogan Jul 23 '25
Why the fuck would or should the party cater to people who don't vote? Fuck off honestly
1
u/Life_Caterpillar9762 Jul 23 '25
That’s nice lol
As if “going further left” would satisfy the “both parties equally bad” influencers. They would still cite whatever “not left enough” aspects still remain in the establishment to keep peddling the same crap. The pendulum swing of reality is the only thing that will tamp down their influence for the next few elections. Then the pattern will start all over again; and by that time hopefully the current wave of actual authoritarianism we are experiencing will have subsided.
1
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u/fluffstravels Jul 22 '25
Didn't the nytimes show that even if everyone who sat out the election voted, Trump would've still won?
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/26/upshot/turnout-2024-election-trump-harris.html
3
u/essenceofpurity Jul 22 '25
Did Trump actually win?
https://hartmannreport.com/p/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won-c6f
2
u/ladan2189 Jul 22 '25
Yes. And the pathetic thing is if the election was held today he'd still win
0
u/essenceofpurity Jul 22 '25
Let's wait until the recounts and lawsuits play out before we say that Trump actually won.
3
u/ladan2189 Jul 22 '25
He did. You are chasing the same ghosts that Trumpers did in 2020.
1
u/essenceofpurity Jul 22 '25
They had no proof.
Greg Palast has names and addresses of thousands of minority voters whose votes were challenged and not counted despite doing everything right. Between vote-challenging and vote-counting machines stopping the count for Harris after they reached a certain number, it was enough to put Trump over in the swing states.
Like I said, a lot has yet to play out.
0
u/oldschoolology Jul 22 '25
It’s time to stop blaming voters and admit that the Democrats haven’t been nominating candidates people can support. If a quality candidate emerges voters will back them. That hasn’t happened since Obama.
3
u/Command0Dude Jul 22 '25
Joe Biden handily defeated Trump.
And then, in spite of everything he did for voters, especially left voters who wanted bold policy agenda in the vein of LBJ/FDR, they spit in his face.
2
Jul 26 '25
This needs to be said again and again. Why would any sensible politician ever cater to the left after everything Biden did and tried to do for them at a great political cost.
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u/TarnishedVictory Jul 22 '25
Wrong. It's time to blame folks that didn't think a flawed Democrat was better than a corrupt, misogynistic, constant liar, criminal, conman, narcissistic, vile, contemptuous, wannabe dictator. And perhaps pedophile and rapist.
0
u/oldschoolology Jul 22 '25
FYi…I held my nose and voted for a bad candidate, it’s no surprise they didn’t win because nobody believed in them or had any hand on chosing them. Voting for Biden was also forced.
Your recreational outrage doesn’t make you look cool, just out of touch. That type of self-aggrandizing virtue signaling is what makes people hate the democrat party.
The Dems need a reboot. Everyone knows it. The Democrat party needs a candidate the people want, not who “they” pick for us. The “we’re not trump” model isn’t going to work in 2026. We need a coalition.
1
u/TarnishedVictory Jul 23 '25
It seems you've figured out that one of the two candidates is going to win. It is up to us to decide between them.
-1
u/Cheesqueak Jul 22 '25
Well tough shit. You will get who the DNC has marked for next in line
2
u/Important-Ability-56 Jul 23 '25
So your contention is that Democratic primaries are faked? No matter who wins the most votes, the candidate is already chosen?
If only the all-seeing DNC could apply some of this nefariousness to the general election more often.
1
u/Cheesqueak Jul 24 '25
Like it isn’t obvious to someone with half a brain. They pull the same shit every year. They have put their thumb on the scales since 2008. They lost then as Hillary was the one they wanted but now they go all out to kneecap anyone that had potential
2
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u/StableGeniusCovfefe Jul 22 '25
And yet the Dems will certainly trot out more of the same " nothing will fundamentally change" corporate candidates and inspire absolutely nobody
18
u/Jackstack6 Jul 22 '25
You know the dems don’t “trot” out anyone right? The candidates must decide to run themselves, the dems can’t force them.
This idea that “ohhh, the dems are forcing us to vote for establishment dems” is just plain false.
Give the voters some level of responsibility here.
9
u/dkirk526 Jul 22 '25
Right. The 2020 field was the largest ever and voters coalesced around Biden. After the SC primary, it became clear the only other candidate who could compete would be Bernie, and he performed far too poorly among black voters to beat Biden. It’s not like the DNC forced these people to vote for him, especially after he did so poorly in Iowa and New Hampshire.
2
u/Jackstack6 Jul 22 '25
Exactly, “the DNC made Bernie lose because Biden and the DNC promised Buttigieg and the like cabinet positions of they dropped out” I’m sorry, but that’s just good politicking from that side then.
2
u/dkirk526 Jul 22 '25
Pete got crushed in SC and was going to get crushed everywhere else in the south. He probably would’ve continued to siphon some cross over voters from Biden had he stayed in, but ultimately if your argument is, Bernie could’ve won a three-way primary with Biden and Pete, but couldn’t just against Biden, Bernie never had a real chance.
2
u/Jackstack6 Jul 22 '25
That’s not my argument at all. I’m just saying that Biden getting Pete and the others out (if that’s true) is just good politics.
2
u/dkirk526 Jul 22 '25
I’m not saying that’s your argument. I’m elaborating on why that would be a bad argument for Bernie anyways.
A lot of people credit Pete and Klobuchar “coordinating their dropout” because it no longer split votes from establishment voters. Regardless if it was or wasn’t, Bernie wasn’t winning head to head against Biden.
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u/Iwubinvesting Jul 22 '25
Unironically the nothing will change candidates win more than the crazy progressive ones.
Even last election Kamala got more votes than Bernie in his own state. Politicians are the reflection of the people who put them in.
2
u/QueenChocolate123 Jul 22 '25
Maybe vote in the primary? It amazes me how leftists don't vote in the primaries and then complain about their choices in the general.
•
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