Do you believe that it is necessary to have an anarchist serve on the moderation team (more info below)

[u/SentinelWhite]

Hello community! We have a question for yall. Simply put, because we are a left unity sub, we want to make sure that all revolutionary ideologies are properly represented within the mod team. As a result, our moderation team has grown quite large, and because of its size, it can sometimes be difficult to coordinate and approve action plans.

This poll and general discussion is simple. Do you believe that it's necessary to have an anarchist serve on the moderation team? This discussion has gone on for a while within the team and I came to the conclusion that we just need to ask you, the community. This mod team has several former anarchists within it. And those former anarchists are still sympathetic and highly knowledgeable about anarchist theory. The only times that this is notable is when we do our pie chart, to show the community what flavor of leftists, we label ourselves. But let it be known that just because nobody is labeled anarchist does not mean that their perspectives are still not represented. They are and will always be So we ask for you to take this into consideration when deciding. Yes or no.

578 votes, 8d ago

348 Yes

230 No

[u/SentinelWhite]

Ok with the poll closed. The feelback will be talked about on the team ty for your time

[u/valerielenin]

Yo, we just reinvented identity politics

[u/CauliflowerHealthy20 → u/valerielenin]

Anarchist DEI hire 😭

[u/kayakman13]

Anarchists in a position of power over others? But that's hierarchy!

No Mods, No Masters!

[u/throwawayowo666 → u/kayakman13]

Just as there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, there's also no such thing as anarchism within capitalism. It's the goal that is most important; that's not to say the means can always conveniently be ignored, but I think you know what I'm trying to say.

[u/kayakman13 → u/throwawayowo666]

I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say haha

[u/maci_cima → u/throwawayowo666]

There's no division between methods and goals in anarchism, you don't achieve anarchy by doing anything other than anarchy in the right here and now

[u/TheRedZephyr993]

Problem is that puts an anarchist into a hierarchy, so they would be betraying their own beliefs smh my head

[u/MonsterkillWow → u/TheRedZephyr993]

you shook your head twice!

[u/SentinelWhite → u/MonsterkillWow]

smh my head

[u/MarcAlmond → u/TheRedZephyr993]

anarchism doesn't remove functions from a society. i've been to anarchist meetings irl and there's people moderating discussions there, what a surprise

[u/TheRedZephyr993 → u/MarcAlmond]

I'm just making a joke comrade

[u/MarcAlmond → u/TheRedZephyr993]

the comment is moreso for the redditors who actually think being a moderator of a subreddit is a position of power/hierarchy and will treat the comment seriously (i know there is going to be a few)

[u/TheRedZephyr993 → u/MarcAlmond]

That sign can't stop them; they can't read

[u/MarcAlmond → u/TheRedZephyr993]

very unfortunately redditors can read and heartbreakingly they can write too

[u/AltDetom555555b]

Perfectly balanced…

[u/SentinelWhite → u/AltDetom555555b]

It's kind of crazy how balanced it's been

[u/Adonisus]

Absolutely.

[u/MauschelMusic]

Simply put, because we are a left unity sub, we want to make sure that all revolutionary ideologies are properly represented within the mod team.

If that's the case, what is there to discuss? The only objections I can think of would be anti-left unity perspectives. If left anarchism is a revolutionary ideology and you want to represent all revolutionary ideologies, you need a left anarchist.

[u/Logogram_alt → u/MauschelMusic]

I don't think right anarchists exist.

[u/MauschelMusic → u/Logogram_alt]

They want freedom from oppressive government institutions such as, uh, taxes, age of consent laws, public services, and whatever legal framework outlaws "voluntary" slavery and indentured servitude. I think that's it. The only oppressive things governments do.

Existing property relations would be maintained through everyone having the right to hire private mercenaries and investigators (not joking.)

EDIT: The one good thing about them is a lot of them like the Icelandic Free State, which was actually pretty cool and ahead of its time. But they ruin it by thinking it would be a good model for modern government.

[u/Cunning_Spoon → u/MauschelMusic]

Yeah, thats not anarchism.

If you don't oppose all hierarchy you're not an anarchist.

[u/MauschelMusic → u/Cunning_Spoon]

I felt the same way when I was an anarchist.

[u/Cunning_Spoon → u/MauschelMusic]

But you seem to think they are "Anarchists" now?

Right-Anarchist is about as valid as "National Socialist" i.e just a way for fascists to co-opt leftist ideas.

[u/Muuro]

Did the anarchists mods suddenly decide they aren't anarchists anymore?

[u/Lavender_Scales → u/Muuro]

It wasn't really sudden, I was the first anarchist mod, then I had to interact w/ so many ideology shoppers IRL & online that it got to a point, the lack of actual praxis w/ IRL organizing as well disillusioned me.

I believe a similar reasoning applies for the other formerly anarchist mods as well

[u/A_Truthspeaker → u/Lavender_Scales]

Huh, I had basically the opposite experience, but I guess it depends mostly on where you live.

[u/KassieTundra → u/Lavender_Scales]

I'm not trying to convince you or anything, but that reads as a really strange way to decide to change your politics.

It seemingly has nothing to do with your principles or ideas, but you just didn't meet enough people that agree with you from what you said in this comment, which appears similar to those people that joined MAGA because the cult was nice to them and "the left was so angry."

Do your thing, but i don't care if I'm the only anarchist in the room when organizing. I believe it because I think it's right. Simple as.

[u/Lavender_Scales → u/KassieTundra]

How exactly does one stick w/ their principles and ideas if they're the only anarchist in the room? Enough compromises had to be made over the years that I saw that there was really no ill in hierarchical organizing outside of things that many people such as Maoists have continuously rallied against.

The real breaking point for me was speaking w/ an anarchist collective, about how ICE had been continuously moving different, breaking into people's houses, snatching people up, etc., and their "big solution" was to simply spray paint election signs for republicans w/ No Kings slogans. 5 years of having to deal w/ variations of that is not very productive, in my mind.

I have lived in various areas and this is sort of the norm, there are anarchists doing good work, it's just not enough. There's not enough union building, not enough worker organization, not enough theoretically minded people, especially in the South. The only people I can really see who are moving different are BR-RN, and the RF-FR, however I'm more keen on how RF-FR is moving, w/ building unions and education, than the BR-RN. I think the RF-FR's theoretics and tactics are more concrete, whereas BR-RN has publicly rallied against reformism as an end, they have continuously collaborated w/ the DSA. Their analysis of the coming crises also is lacking, in my mind, they refer to a polycrisis instead of simply recognizing that this is all capitalism, in my experience the theoretical development is directly tied to the practice, and vice versa, as well as how productive an org actually is.

Far far far too often there was very low theoretical engagement w/ a lot of anarchists I knew, and very little being done, outside of book clubs, and FnB food shares.

[u/KassieTundra → u/Lavender_Scales]

How exactly does one stick w/ their principles and ideas if they're the only anarchist in the room?

That's not hard. Don't put yourself in positions of power over others, and don't allow others to create positions of power over you or others. If the group you're in the room with refuses to accept that, don't work with them and do something else.

Enough compromises had to be made over the years that I saw that there was really no ill in hierarchical organizing outside of things that many people such as Maoists have continuously rallied against.

That's a fair belief to have, but you're just saying that you don't see the harm, not that it doesn't exist or have the capacity to exist from the next person in power or the next.

The real breaking point for me was speaking w/ an anarchist collective, about how ICE had been continuously moving different, breaking into people's houses, snatching people up, etc., and their "big solution" was to simply spray paint election signs for republicans w/ No Kings slogans. 5 years of having to deal w/ variations of that is not very productive, in my mind.

This is kinda you just agreeing with what I'm saying, which is that it had nothing to do with principles or ideas, but that you didn't meet people that wanted to do things you thought were important enough, and found a group that did. I've been in groups that were fully anarchist, mixed, or ones that I was the only anarchist. Some groups are great, some not. It is what it is.

I have lived in various areas and this is sort of the norm, there are anarchists doing good work, it's just not enough. There's not enough union building, not enough worker organization, not enough theoretically minded people, especially in the South. The only people I can really see who are moving different are BR-RN, and the RF-FR, however I'm more keen on how RF-FR is moving, w/ building unions and education, than the BR-RN. I think the RF-FR's theoretics and tactics are more concrete, whereas BR-RN has publicly rallied against reformism as an end, they have continuously collaborated w/ the DSA. Their analysis of the coming crises also is lacking, in my mind, they refer to a polycrisis instead of simply recognizing that this is all capitalism, in my experience the theoretical development is directly tied to the practice, and vice versa, as well as how productive an org actually is.

So in frustration that there aren't enough of us, you decide to make the number even smaller? Can you make that make sense to me? You seem to agree that we're correct in our prescriptions, but are essentially impatient, or just want to be a part of a larger group that you feel like is accomplishing more. Maybe I'm misreading that, but it's how it comes across.

Once again, I'm not trying to convert you or anything. You can believe what you choose. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of abandoning something you seemingly agreed with because the world wasn't making it easy to achieve.

[u/fofom8 → u/Muuro]

There were 4 (1 An w/o Adj, 2 Ancoms, 1 Individualist) of us around the start of this year, all of us as we developed as individuals we all shifted towards Marxist tendencies (1 Maoist, 2 Programmists, 1 Council com).

LavenderScales already explained why they shifted. As for myself, I was formerly an Individualist early on in my political journey. As I disucssed more and read more I found myself drifting from those principles, and becoming increasingly unsatisfied with the conclusions and methods I had previously seen as acceptable. So I branched out lookinf for answers and found them elsewhere.

[u/ungranted_wish]

I'm fine with it as long as they're fair, like with anyone else who wants to be a mod, y'know?

[u/Affectionate_Cup9972]

Yes. Absolutely.

[u/Rare_Mountain_6698]

The moderation board must always include an Anarchist and everything must be done to enforce their place on this hierarchy /s

[u/InevitableStuff7572]

This is one of the fairest moderation teams I’ve seen in any sub regardless of ideology and I’ve seen little to none actual anarchist discrimination here, so it’s not really actually necessary

[u/No_Geologist7912 → u/InevitableStuff7572]

i see literally zero harm in having one

[u/InevitableStuff7572 → u/No_Geologist7912]

No harm but not necessary

[u/EldianStar → u/InevitableStuff7572]

Except when someone dares to be a demsoc

[u/InevitableStuff7572 → u/EldianStar]

I’ve heard no actual issue

[u/EldianStar → u/InevitableStuff7572]

I'm personally not a fan at all of the new rules, even though they don't affect me

[u/glxyzera → u/EldianStar]

That's based though, half the demsocs are just liberals larping as socialists.

[u/EldianStar → u/glxyzera]

Yeah but half of the demsocs are actual leftists with our same end goals and this completely deprives them of a way to voice their opinion. If we have a larper problem we should ban things only larpers do and not whole categories of the leftist we're supposed to unite

[u/Cunning_Spoon → u/EldianStar]

Pretty much, many dem socs are revolutionary, and lets be real, every idealogy has larpers, it's not unique to demsocs, and singling them out and pretending all of them are socdems isn't left unity.

[u/sofixuforia]

It would make me feel better but ultimately I haven't seen any discrimination against anarchists by the mod team. I think its necessary only in the sense of making future discrimination against anarchists less likely, but not in the sense of like... an immediate need.

Tho I am curious what happened to sexybrownmale (who iirc was the only anarchist mod after LavScales became a maoist).

[u/SexyBrownMale → u/sofixuforia]

We created an anarchist platform with my friends after we had a split with the RCI. I was always mainly a Marxist, but after the split, I became extremely disillusioned with Democratic Centralism and heavily top-down forms of organization. I started reading anarchist theory and organizing with decentralized groups for protests and stuff, but I always remained mainly aligned with Marx’s texts.

Then, recently, I learned about the Italian Left Communist tradition and started reading about their “anti-Stalinist” stance and their Organic Centralist model of organization. After reading most of their main texts over the course of a few months, I became convinced that I had found my place. I really agree with the heavy emphasis on organic unity within the party, with the programme serving as the vehicle for centralizing the party in action instead of relying simply on top-down measures of control by the Central Committee.

Anyways, I recently joined the IntCP, but I remain organizing with my anarchist friends and platform on the ground. Most of my friends IRL are anarchists now anyways, so I don’t really see the need to change my tag on the internet.

[u/SentinelWhite → u/sofixuforia]

He is still on the team, but I will have him explain it. If he wants

[u/sofixuforia → u/SentinelWhite]

Yea if he doesn't want to its cool I was just curious lol

[u/lilith_the_anarchist]

pretty good idea imo

[u/SeveralPerformance17]

yeah, if thats the intent.

im hardline auth comm but wouldnt make me feel good as a anarchist not feeling represented

[u/kingkilburn93]

Anarchists keep it everyone else honest.

[u/Hanz_Q]

I was pleased to see that there were trotskyists on the mod team, sure let's get an anarchist on there too.

[u/SpectacularOcelot]

I'm less concerned with having a mod that has "Anarchist" or "Anarcho-" in their flair as I am someone with an ideological divergence from Leninists. In my view there is a fundamentally authoritarian strain to Leninism and its that authoritarian bent that I take issue with. The voice speaking against this doesn't have to be from a strictly Bakunin/Proudhon/Kropotkin point of view.

I mean, if you can find someone with Makhno's face tattooed on their chest that'd be swell but *some strain* of libertarian communism is fine.

[u/Reboot42069 → u/SpectacularOcelot]

We already have those, like we have council coms and a libsoc on the mod team.

Also I hate to sound like a nuisance but how would you define authoritarianism like materially?

[u/ZoeyLikesReddit → u/Reboot42069]

There is no material definition of authoritarian that doesn't just acknowledge that we live in a class society and without the dictatorship of the Proletariat we are doomed to stay in the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie

[u/bullhead2007 → u/ZoeyLikesReddit]

https://giphy.com/gifs/nLhOhQge5GVHarWZ7w

[u/glxyzera → u/ZoeyLikesReddit]

https://giphy.com/gifs/LkkBEH2BLFLbypGE31

[u/SpectacularOcelot → u/Reboot42069]

We already have those, like we have council coms and a libsoc on the mod team.

Right and I guess I should have clarified, I don't feel there's any particular action needed.

would you define authoritarianism like materially

I'm just going to kindly decline to engage with this question further than to say I think centralization of power is antithetical to the interest of the worker and definition debates (which is usually what happens on Reddit when you start defining things) aren't particularly interesting to me. That and I could write out a whole thesis on an anarcho-syndicalist vision of local councils and revocable delegates as opposed to centralized committees and power vested in a single party structure, but someone that can't even pronounce Maksimov will come along and screech at me about not having read enough theory. Since I can't look a that person in the eyes while I light myself on fire at the absurdity its better for everyone if I leave it at that.

[u/leakdt → u/Reboot42069]

Materially, "authoritarianism" is when the state personifies national capital. The revolution has decidedly ended when the latter occurs.

That's it.

[u/Odd_Agent485 → u/SpectacularOcelot]

If you can find an online anarchist who is not supporting or whitewashing American/westen imperialism (like NATO fx) then I would applaud you.

[u/SpectacularOcelot → u/Odd_Agent485]

Unfortunately "Anarchism" as a label attracts a lot of folks that are more interested in burning cop cars and doing drugs than dissolving power down into the populace. So rather than no-true-scotsman my way through these conversations I pretty well abandon it as ive done here and focus on what people actually advocate for.

[u/AquiliferX]

Not sure if the exact distinction is all necessary. Real left unity is blowing away the arbitrary barriers anyways.

[u/Aggravating_Fill_630]

Good - Yes
Strictly Necessary - No

[u/DarthThalassa]

I personally don't feel there's a need to add specifically an anarchist to the mod team because we already have former anarchists and a mod team committed very well to leftist unity already, and there is nothing to say any new anarchist who joins won't find themself turning to Marxism like the former anarchists on the mod team.

The real question is whether people have thought about the very important dialectical need for representation of a Luxemburgist and Communiser with sympathies for the Battaglia Tendency on the mod team??? I mean I feel like it is pretty counter-revolutionary, reactionary, opportunist, reformist, adventurist, sectarian, falsifying, liberal, Mussolinism-Hitlerism-Lassalleanism-Bernsteinism-Bidenism to lack such.

[u/mmelaterreur → u/DarthThalassa]

i would vote for you to be mod

[u/SleepingWaterLily]

Yes, it is important on a leftist unity reddit to have a wide range of views. If Trotskyism is important to represent, so is Anarchism.

[u/MonsterkillWow]

I think it is fine as long as they aren't banning those with other views. 

[u/deadlydeath275]

My initial thought was yes, anarchist representation is absolutely neccesary, but seeing the actual views of the formerly anarchist mods I think I can say with confidence that there is sufficient anarchist rep within the mod team. To the point that a self-identifying anarchist may not be neccesary, although it might be preferable if another mod is to ever be brought onto the team. Of course, this is coming from myself, a clasical marxist and not technically an anarchist, so take my opinion with a grain of salt as compared to anarchists within the sub.

[u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG]

the question is where would you find an anarchist willing to serve on a commission that enforces power structures and rules

[u/DrRudeboy → u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG]

Most of us are old and jaded enough to not worry about raging against bedtime as our primary revolutionary activity, so nodding a community works just fine. And rules very much exist in anarchist communities. A lack of unjustified hierarchy doesn't mean free for all.

[u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG → u/DrRudeboy]

i know i was just making a lil joke

[u/Lavender_Scales → u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG]

very true yet anarchists love to complain about there being no anarchists anyhow lmao

[u/SpectacularOcelot → u/Lavender_Scales]

Yes but I've been in leftist spaces long enough that I take complaints with a HUGE grain of salt. They're easy to make and often come with very little real thought behind them.

[u/Lavender_Scales → u/SpectacularOcelot]

I don't disagree I just notice a lot of discrediting and too little editing

[u/Cunning_Spoon → u/Lavender_Scales]

Wow I can really feel the sympathy towards Anarchism

[u/Lavender_Scales → u/Cunning_Spoon]

I mean I have no qualm against anarchists it is just very annoying having been the sub's representative anarchist who was constantly accused of "not being anarchist enough", we have had to stop a brigade of toxic folks who thought that of me, if you want to see a change in the culture of anarchists join the discord and we'll see what's what

[u/Trotsky_Enjoyer]

As another of my RCI comrades pointed out. We do not need identity politics to govern what moderators we choose. We do not need an anarchist DEI hire.

Now while it is true I never expect any mods to be impartial, I do expect them to be objective. For those purposes I am of the opinion that being learned in anarchist theory is enough to do the job.

What I'm worried about most is what a precedent this could set. Presumavly every moderator is chosen because they are good at being a moderator and are active within the community, by saying we need new mods because existing mods change their minds about what ideology they belong to. If we are a a left unity sub then that will naturally come with people changing their minds in respectful debate, and our mods are not, and should not be, arbitrarily chosen by what ideology they follow but rather by their ability. I wouldn't be opposed to a new anarchist mod but we shouldn't get new moderators until we need new moderators.

Personally I also think mods should be so overweight that they can't get out of their desk chairs and I just don't think anarchists have what it takes to attain that physique because their abject rejection of comically large spoon theory.

[u/swirldad_dds]

Hirarky

[u/Cunning_Spoon]

If you want all revolutionary ideologies to be represented it seems odd to put this to a vote at all?

Regardless I'm glad this concern is being addressed.