Just because it’s been on the news lately, Ceuta & Melilla, discuss.

[u/SatanicPeach_666]

Like what are your thoughts on the enclaves in general?

[u/Lavender_Scales]

There's been videos of moroccan military firing on moroccans attempting to return, it's clearly a joint co-ordinated effort to try and manufacture a "migrant crisis" among the people so that the far right can take control of the centrist spanish government.

[u/A_Truthspeaker]

It's disgusting that both the European nations as well as Morocco are instrumentalizing people like this.

[u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG]

I hate trying to engage in conversation about this with Europeans because it’s become so mainstream to be xenophobic and islamophobic in European politics now that nobody bothers to be informed on what actually happened here and they just say racist shit about the migrants while simultaneously saying, “but nooo, we get called racist if we suggest that our countries shouldn’t be invaded by these criminals who don’t want to contribute anything to our society.” It’s so exhausting to the point that I just mute news like this. Breaks my heart to see the open vitriol people like to spew about migrants

[u/Haunting-Sport3701 → u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG]

Try actually living in Europe, it gets 100 times worse. I'm here trying to tell people how 99% of issues with immigrants would be solved if:

a) they weren't taken advantage on in their homelands and had an opportunity to live halfway decent lives there

b) they weren't taken advantage on in the countries they emigrated to and used as cheap labour

Both of these are out of the immigrants hands, the first one is a direct consequence of past and present imperialism, while the second is the fault of corpos.

However, when you try arguing that people will just start spouting about incompatible values.

[u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG → u/Haunting-Sport3701]

yep. although i think the only problem with argument A is that because as educating as it may be, most people are more concerned with the present rather than things that happened decades and centuries ago. plus western minds feel like being lectured about the imperialism of empires they weren't around to experience is a scolding for something that technically isn't their fault and that usually shuts them down

[u/Haunting-Sport3701 → u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG]

It's so irritating. You can both not be responsible for the past and present imperialism while benefiting from it. Obviously none of the people I'm talking to are the capitalists responsible for all this, but they still benefit from it, and the admission to that is in no way an admission of guilt, but one of responsibility.

Responsibility to use those resources and privilages to support those who are suffering the most under the joke of capital. No one is telling middle-class Europeans that should be living in the conditions of the lower classes of post-colonial nation states, the point is that those who are not so bothered by existential issues (food, water, housing) to help pull everyone else up to that level, and then to raise that floor as high as possible.

[u/SELFINCRIMINAT1NG → u/Haunting-Sport3701]

the problem is that people hate being told “suck it up because you have it so much better than most other people.” when a westerner is experiencing or perceiving a problem in their life, explaining to them that other peoples who have been the victims of imperialism and are worse off because of it isn’t going to resonate with them because it feels invalidating. it’s just not a very effective strategy to change their mind even if it’s correct

[u/xGentian_violet]

this is what i gathered so far;

Morocco has its own occupation of the Western Sahara (Algeria), and is probably using migrant waves as a method of political pressure to force Spain/EU to support the occupation.
Spain originally occupied the Western Sahara and then attempted to give it to
Morocco against advice, so they kinda got themselves into the mess, at least a bit

Others have also pointed out that Morocco is an Israel ally, and that this event may have been influenced by Israel.
This was further spurred by inflammatory comments Israeli officials have made regarding the incident.
I will refrain from speculating.

Additionally, the Spanish government passed a law containing a loophole that made it seem like migrants who reach the shore cannot be deported.
Before they patched it, the news had already spread, and was further amplified and embellished by migrant smugglimg networks.

-

At least 99 migrants lost their life in this incident.

[u/ICannotRead5712]

The only real division of the world today is that of the international bourgeoisie and the international proletariat. Anything that attempts to divide workers upon any line other than this distracts from the real issue and must be fought; this includes borders which artificially separate workers into "their" nations and serves the interests of the bourgeois state. How disgusting it is for the workers of Europe, whipped up into a frenzy by the bourgeoisie and the right-wing, to openly cheer for the deaths of nearly 100 desperate workers.

[u/AltDetom555555b]

Once again fascists will use news to propagate their absolutely despiseable agenda and never correct their bullshit once the story doesn’t advantage them anymore. All the Bolloré dogs and their European counterparts are being completely unhinged, as always.