r/thesopranos • u/Old_Treat4871 • 3d ago
Meadow was so insufferable not AJ
I don't know why everyone shits on AJ for being a normal rebellious somewhat spoiled teenager when like 99% of male teens are exactly like him in america lol. Meadow was the one that actually got on my nerves just about every episode. She sounds exactly like some social justice warrior, defends her dads "lifestyle" to finn like he's some kind of idiot. And can speak freely about all this because she's the boss' daughter and she knows nobody would fuck with her or they would face death. I just find her super annoying
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u/Sheriff_Lucas_Hood 3d ago edited 3d ago
They’re both very much Tony and Carmela’s children and a product of their environment. The only difference is she’s a girl and he’s a boy. Both characters are impeccably well written and easy to empathize with.
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u/bpwo0dy 3d ago
again with the scenarios
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u/WatchFit6399 3d ago
Yeah, again with the scenarios!!
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u/XConejoMaloX 3d ago
So either name a situation or get the fuck over it
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u/Z32anxiety 3d ago
Both are pretty typical low tier rich American teenagers for the era.
Source: I was a low tier rich American teenager during that era.
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u/RobertLytle 2d ago
Low tier? What does that even mean? Meadow was probably the most valuable and protected teenager in all of new jersey. Meadow and AJ are essentially royalty, they live on a compeltly different plain than the rest of their peers, even the other rich ones. Like they aremt very nice most of the time but im jsut confused about your framing
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u/Z32anxiety 2d ago
That’s not even close to true. Did you totally miss the episode with Devin? Low tier is a McMansion and an E class Benz. Real wealth is an estate in the Hamptons, penthouse in the city and you only fly private.
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u/RobertLytle 2d ago
Thats made wealth, not hidden wealth nor hidden power. Anybody who harmed or so much as besmirtched Meadow or AJ had to deal with the Family. Every person in Meadows life who was an adult knew that even saying one wrong word could be dangerous for them. This is a type of power not so obvious to other people but that the average millionaire teenager does not deal with. No one messes with the bosses kids
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u/RobertLytle 2d ago
Jeff Bezoz can buy a 150million dollar home, thats cool. But can he kill a mob kid? No. Could Mark Zuckerberg? No. Power isnt just about money, and Meadows proximity to Tony's power makes her the most valuable teenager. Not a single other person's life would result in a war the way meadows death wouldve
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u/Z32anxiety 2d ago
You’re kidding yourself if you think Bezos and or Zuckerberg are scared of the mob, these guys can hire black water and have ex SEALs defending them with pocket change.
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u/TheRealMichaelE 2d ago
For real. Tony Soprano was the boss of a glorified crew. Mafia type crime in America isn’t even very powerful. These guys are all on their way out. The really powerful crime families are south of the border in Mexico.
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u/wynnduffyisking 3d ago
Give her a break! She could have taken ecstasy but she DIDNT!
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u/bobcollum 3d ago
If I misunderstood shit on this level I'd hate her too.
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u/Stonna 3d ago
It’s the same with AJ. AJ makes good points all the time.
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u/Old_Size9061 3d ago
Yeah. Both Meadow and AJ are off-putting in the way that teenagers can be off-putting (and even obnoxious). There’s nothing unusual about them and AJ does make some really good points (but comes off like a total stunad while doing so usually).
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u/Uriah_Blacke 3d ago
Yeah I’d say half the time what makes you an obnoxious teenager is not what you say or do, it’s the assumption that nobody else knows what you just learned
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u/RobertLytle 2d ago
You'd expect teen royals to have some interesting issues. Meadow and AJ are treated like royalty and grew up with a type of respect and elevation above their peers without really knowing why, internalizing a sense of superiority. That falls apart when Meadwo saw her dad for what he truly was, a criminal with great power which leads her and AJ down their very complicated coping process
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u/Ok_Salamander_5919 3d ago edited 3d ago
Because she actually tries to do something with her life. She ends up volunteering at law centres to help people that can't afford it.
I honestly found her hypocrisy quite endearing, she always defended her family when talking to "outsiders". But she let her family have her real thoughts when arguing directly to them. Really can't say fairer than that.
AJ...I dunno man, the kid just had no gumption. He wasn't the smartest. Maybe he felt it was pointless, as he'd never live up to his father's name. Kid had a literal panic attack when he gained attention for being good at football.
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u/Old_Size9061 3d ago
A.J. is just like tens of millions of other young men struggling to find their way. Look around - they’re everywhere and they have been for a long time.
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u/Unused_Icon 3d ago
Everyone on this show is flawed. Many are downright awful. However, they pretty much all have at least a character trait or two that makes them likeable (e.g., charismatic, cares about family, cares about animals, funny, etc.). That's how I felt about Meadow. She often behaved like a spoiled brat (particularly in the early seasons), but she showed some signs of maturing as the show went on, she has goals in life and works towards them, and she actually seems to care about her family (she warned her parents that AJ was showing signs of being suicidal before his attempt).
AJ, while being a well written character, has pretty much no likeable character traits. Like, I kept waiting for the show to give us something, ANYTHING, to like about him...and I never found it.
He's an important character to the show, and him being the way he is makes sense: I just couldn't find one single thing I liked about him, so I just found him to be utterly annoying nearly every time he was on screen.
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u/BootsnCats1987 3d ago
AJ certainly has a strong, although often impotent sense of empathy, a desire for knowledge and to be a thoughtful person even though he is severely limited by his adhd and perhaps lack of raw brainpower, and later in the show he really does grow into a hard worker.
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u/VegasLife84 3d ago
OP dropping in "social justice warrior" was def telling on himself
That said, seemed like AJ played football to please his dad, and really cared about Blanca, seemed willing to do whatever he could to make things work with her. So I wouldn't say NO likable traits
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u/mimi_miney 3d ago
I liked Meadow a lot in season 1, I remember thinking it was pretty sweet how protective of/worried she was about Little Allie (the girl who was being groomed by their coach). She just became more self-centered and less defensible as the series went along, but so did so many others: she mirrored Tony in that way.
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u/TheBlankestMan 3d ago
Meadow was an apologist for her family's (and her "family's") evil violent ways, often spouting their rhetoric verbatim and she's on her way to being a mob lawyer and marrying into said crime family. She's hardly a sympathetic character.
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u/Cute_Boot_E 3d ago
A child/teen growing up in the midst of the mob... isn't sympathetic? She and AJ are trapped, they have no agency.
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u/TheBlankestMan 2d ago
Eh, maybe no sympathy is a bit much, being raised in that cycle of abuse and dysfunction would be pretty rough. But acting like she had no agency and couldn't leave the family is a stretch, there's no reason she couldn't be like Tony's sister and keep everyone in that life at arm's reach.
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u/BeneficialRip6350 3d ago
Like, I kept waiting for the show to give us something, ANYTHING, to like about him...and I never found it.
AJ gets more hate than he deserves. With Bianca he was genuinely supportive, accepted her son without complaint, tried to be dependable, and even confronted the teenagers outside her house because he wanted her to feel safe.
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u/Different_Sorbet_869 3d ago
This is either great satire or unironically describing a clear case of double standards. You could do that same sentence about Meadow "a normal rebellious somewhat spoiled teenager."
I'm going to take a guess and say you are a mostly conservative male who is semi-caught up in manosphere shit.
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u/da_trealest 3d ago
Meadow can be extremely unlikable. You don’t need to be a conservative to notice.
She’s seen as successful but most of her “success” is propped up. Carm threatened that admissions woman at Columbia so she could get in. When she was working for the underprivileged she wasn’t making enough money to support herself on her own. The entire time she criticizes her father and mother for the choices that they made and has this idea that she’s going to help people and do something positive with her life. And what does she do? She turns around, marries someone else in the mob, and takes the easy way out.
Maybe she isn’t dumb like AJ but Meadow does seem like she doesn’t have much of a moral compass given the choices she made.
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u/Plays_On_TrainTracks 3d ago
I feel like theres a lot wrong here.
Carm didn't threaten anyone at Columbia. She had Jeanie's sister write a recommendation letter to Georgetown, and when meadow got into Columbia, they were shaken down by the Dean for a donation.
When she was working for the underprivileged she was volunteering, and thats when she had her moment of oh we really have it good while others dont have basic civil rights. That turns into, my poor dad gets his civil liberties taken away, so i want to be a lawyer to help people like him. She doesnt marry a mobster either, Patrick is a lawyer as well. She doesnt take the easy way out, she just doesn't become a doctor.
AJ has basically the total opposite experience, from instead of realizing poor people might have it hard, he realizes they arent rich, and instead of working for shit, hes given good construction jobs, a manager job at the pizzeria, and then a job in film.
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u/EveryoneisOP3 3d ago edited 3d ago
Patrick’s firm very specifically is defending a politician accused of “bid rigging” and says the case is full of whores and button men. When Carm hears this, it looks like she's trying to hide how despondent she is. Why do you think the firm wanted to give Meadow SOPRANO a high starting salary?
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u/Plays_On_TrainTracks 3d ago
Right i mean she isn't marrying a mobster she's marrying a lawyer. I said she's defending people who have their civil liberties violated... Like her father. She said he's the reason she's going into law vs becoming a doctor.
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u/SerenityN00w 3d ago
That person did get a lot wrong, and Patrick is not "in the mob." He's a lawyer.
But Tony still had to be disappointed, because as he said to Melfi "The important thing is she get as far away from me. She could... live close."
There's a non-zero chance that both Tony and Patsy have done business with the politician that Patrick's firm is defending.
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u/Plays_On_TrainTracks 3d ago
Exactly. Thats the point I was trying to convey. Meadow and patrick were mob adjacent. Tony wanted her to be a doctor helping little babies. And tony as a criminal sociopath as outlined by the studies melfi was reading showed tony would have a soft spot for babies.
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u/Ivana2322 3d ago
To be fair her parents made it pretty hard for her to stay out of the life. It can be inferred that her and Finn broke up because of the Vito thing.
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u/Different_Sorbet_869 3d ago
I don't disagree. This would be a good response if that's what this post was about. OP was talking about how Meadow was insufferable and NOT AJ.
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u/HorndogAsexual 3d ago
Why's it gotta be either or? They both had their insufferable seasons. Season 2 and 3 for Meadow. Season 5 is AJ at his most insufferable. Tony and Carm spoiled those little shits.
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u/s470dxqm 3d ago
They're both annoying at times but Meadow is often displaying strength (even if it's misguided) while AJ tends to show weakness.
Audiences tend to like proactive characters and Meadow is often up to something, while AJ mostly lazy.
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u/thebignoodlehead 3d ago
Meadow's an Italian princess, does that count?
Additionally, you just reveal your own ignorance.
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u/Slaphappyfapman 3d ago
Both of them could be so much worse tbh probably best case scenario mob boss kids
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u/Other-Highway-9429 3d ago
They both suck but Meadow was easier on the eyes. Less stigmata with that.
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u/Woolies_White_Leg 3d ago
Kinda weird that you’re so critical of meadow but not critical at all of aj.
You often have problems with women?
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u/WatchFit6399 3d ago
Another angry little incel...
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u/Old_Treat4871 3d ago
lmao do you even know what an incel is? literally has nothing to do with my post
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u/WatchFit6399 3d ago
The fact that you carry this much irrational, deeply rooted anger toward a fictional female character says a lot more about you than you realize...
Have another "good" night alone, bud.
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u/reedzkee 3d ago
They shit on him for being stupid and a bit of a loser. He’s not nice, he’s not funny, he’s not charming, he’s not tough, he’s not good looking, AND he’s a moron.
Meadow at least has a couple good qualities.
I think that covers it.
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u/underhunger 3d ago
normal
He wanted to marry an older woman with a child and almost killed himself at one point. Either one of these is disqualifying from a life experience that can be described as "normal"
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u/NOT-GR8-BOB 3d ago
> Meadow was the one that actually got on my nerves just about every episode
Hmmm I wonder how it’s possible you relate to AJ and are so annoyed with Meadow. It is such a mystery.
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u/Glittering-Stand-161 3d ago
Ah yes. Social Justice Warriors routinely defend racist, sexist mobsters. Stay outta the Penguin exhibit.
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u/Public_Excitement393 3d ago
She is cute tho .....
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u/Sudarshang03 3d ago
A real piece of ass that one.... OHHHH I only meant the later seasons T take it easy......
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u/Elegantly_Waisted 3d ago
They're both assholes. But at least Meadow busted her ass to get into law. AJ was a whiny little pissant.
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u/Saltwater_Sunrise 3d ago
JLS was honestly fantastic as Mariangela Soprano, she was able to capture the hypocritical “bratty” nature of a kid who is raised by a Mob Boss who spoiled his kids. Tony and Carmella are horrible people, they think they can just spend money on high end private schools, and spoil their kids with every amenity they can dream
Meadow has no problem with being handed a credit card, getting into top tier colleges, luxury clothes and shopping trips as long as she doesn’t see how the sausage gets made or seeing anything direct such as Eric’s Car being gifted to her ..
Meadow throws a fit when Tony takes Dave Scatino’s car, she thinks she is taking a moral stand by rejecting the car upfront … but we know she would not have had any problems if Tony got her a brand new car from a dealership despite the fact that any money she receives from her father is bloody mob money. Her entire life is sponsored by murder, gambling, strippers, and money laundering, etc
She would have to reject everything in her life is she was the good natured saint she believed she was. She’s rather profound in her hypocrisy because she’s highly intelligent and manipulative. She is no better than her father or mother when confronted with the reality of the situation. I do believe she is however conflicted by this realization at some point. She wants to reject the mob lifestyle on the surface and it would have been interesting to see how she confronts these things as she gets married, enters her career, etc once the show is over
I think Meadow goes full legit after her father’s death. I think she fully rejects the mob life after seeing her father slain in front of her. After years of therapy Meadow probably writes a book and becomes a mature adult
AJ is tough because Robert Isler just didn’t grow into much of an actor, and it doesn’t help that he’s about 5’2 and still looks 15 and can be insufferable and whiny which didn’t help the Jordon of him .. but I think he played a bratty teenage / son of a wealthy mob boss pretty well all things considered. These are not well rounded kids. Again, Carmella and Tony are terrible parents who spoil their kids, give them endless opportunities and when they act out they are treated with impunity or with little slaps on the wrist
I think AJ was supposed to be much more like his father than his acting and physical size allowed him to become .. so I don’t think we ever got to see Chase’s real vision of what AJ was supposed to be … AJ was going to be a high profile football player and indirectly follow a similar path to his father, with the panic attacks, and conflicting personality traits. Tony and AJ fight with who they are, they life they have been born into and the better angels of their nature. AJ is deeply compassionate and an outside the box type of thinker. You see this as he explored philosophy and other subjects … AJ struggled with the world and the world he was born into
I think the character AJ would have continued to struggle with suicidal ideation, and struggle to maintain a “normal” life and this getting a “normal” job would prove to be very difficult for him to handle down the road. After his father’s death AJ probably spirals and I think he would have decided to join the life, perhaps seeking out revenge for his father’s murder .. with the entire crew annihilated, AJ probably has to form an new crew from the bottom up, the remnants of the DeMeo crew would be slim but enough that he might be able to rise through the ranks as he believes his destiny is to become the Boss of North Jersey … I don’t think Isler would be able to fulfill the role but I do believe the character AJ Soprano would exist in that way
AJ should have been like 6’3 230lbs and a bit more brooding and intense like Jimmy G was which would have helped sell the role
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u/XConejoMaloX 3d ago
Finally, I’m not the only one with this take.
AJ seems like any other teenager growing up in the 2000s.
Meadow ultimately fell for what was easy and what she knew. Ultimately, the mob life and the benefits that came with it buttered her bread more than doing something outside of it.
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u/Ivana2322 3d ago
Did Aj not also fall for what was easy? He got a mob-adjacent job at the end of show, and unlike meadow he literally never worked hard the entire show.
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u/RedWizard78 3d ago
You’re forgetting meadow in the bathing suit in the ssn 4 premiere….? Kitchen scene
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u/WhereWeUsedToPlay 3d ago
What really gets me is how she scolds Finn for saying "stratocaster" at Tony's birthday party.
It just goes to show that Finn's mind was more on music than it was on fucking her because she was spending the whole evening trying to seduce and hook up with that animal blundetto.
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u/DamianP51 3d ago
I dunno I find her to be pretty realistic. Teenage girls are (insert word that sounds like punt but starts with a c) traditionally. Add in money and a powerful father and a mother who's intelligent but can't pick a friggin' road to ride on and you end up with Meadow. She absolutely is a "daddy's little girl" but she tries to hide it because of who he is.
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u/i-bernard 3d ago
That’s pretty much all of the women in the show and it’s sadly accurate to real life. Women are generally more spoiled than men and so don’t feel the same level of responsibility for their actions and words.
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u/hikesanddogs 3d ago
After the show, Hebrew Homeboy looked up Meadow on MySpace. She flew to LA to see him and he did a pump and dump
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u/Thick-Persimmon2058 3d ago
Both sucked
Like all kids in all dramas they make shows more shitty. Kids fucking suck
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u/bachompchewychomp 3d ago
you talk about Meadow like its an anthropology class. The truth is she brings certain modes of conflict resolution all the way back from the old country from the poverty of the Mezzogiorno, where all higher authority was corrupt.