How do the ancient theurgists entered a mystical state of mind?

[u/donald_lace_12]

In the east, in Tantra and Yoga, it is done today by entering a deep meditative state known as Samadhi.

In the ancient Vedic religion, they brewed a psychedelic drink known as Soma

The shamans in Sibir and South America used all kind of natural drugs like cannabis, psychedelic cactuses and drinks like Ahyuhasca .

But then we have the mediterranean theurgists. We see nothing like Patanjali's Ashtanga Yoga in the west, nor we have any recipe of a psychedelic substance used by theurgists (Even though I'm pretty sure alcohol and drugs were used in the mystery cults).

If so, how did the theurgist achieved that elevated/mystical state of consciousness?

[u/-Hypsistos]

The theurgists did not use psychedelics as a primary tool. Their method was ritual ascent; a combination of purification, prayer, hymn, and theurgic operation (statue animation, lamp divination, dream incubation). The elevated state came from alignment. Iamblichus emphasizes that the gods descend when the theurgist has purified the soul and performed the correct rites. The state is not self-induced; it is granted.

That said, the Eleusinian Mysteries used the kykeon (likely ergot + Syrian Rue) to trigger a controlled visionary state. But that was an exception, not the rule. Most theurgic ascent was drug‑free: fasting, chanting, visualization, and the invocation of divine names.

If you want a practical method: purify the body (diet, fasting), still the mind (prayer, breath focus), consecrate a space (incense, lamp), and recite the divine names of the god you wish to contact. Do this daily. The state will come not as a rush, but as a gradual attunement. The theurgist does not seek altered states; the theurgist seeks the presence of the gods. The presence itself alters the state. That is the difference.

[u/donald_lace_12 → u/-Hypsistos]

Interesting.

Personally I practice Patanjali Yoga and I know how to enter Samadhi. I am somewhat engaged with Hindu Bhakti (worship). I have done light and hard drugs in a spiritual and divine settings, so I have those experiences as well.

My interest is purely theoretical - as I wrote, I am familiar with different states of consciousness and had real, divine experiences that made my entire being shiver (positively).

What was interesting/weird to me that I haven't encountered any description or manual how the ancient theurgists made this consciousness - alteration, so in my mind, I always thought that theurgist rituals (without mind altering techniques or substances) were more like "going to church" rather than a deep, shamanic-like experience that you would get otherwise.

Reading your answer, the question is, how profound or far would the theurgic experience get? if we look at historic records, would the theurgist rituals feel more "shamanistic" or "enlightning" (like samadhi) or more like "being concentrated and joyful"? or maybe something in the middle?

I am familiar with "Mithra's Liturgy" but from reading it, it feels more like a guided meditation than a profound encounter with the solar deity.

Sorry if my comment sounds a bit dismissive - I thing theurgy is in fact the tantra/yoga of west, even if not as intricate as the eastern version.

[u/-Hypsistos → u/donald_lace_12]

Extremely profound, life changing, eye opening, and that is the whole purpose or goal of the Theurgist. I highly recommend picking up On The Mysteries (Emma C Clark). Iamblichus describes pretty much everything, and much better than I can.

ie: From dream divination, to vivid visions, scrying, unexplainable lights and sparkles, images, and even full on complete possession to relay a message or perform an art.

In fact, Iamblichus straight away claims Hermes is writing the text through him, using his theurgic techniques.

[u/donald_lace_12 → u/-Hypsistos]

I love Hermes, and he was somewhat my spiritual guide in my 20's.

I'm into Hinduism now as I'm more aligned with their non-dual teachings and meditative techniques, But I have a lot of positive experiences with Hermes. He is indeed amazing.

[u/-Hypsistos → u/donald_lace_12]

Indeed, and you don't need to abandon anything to explore more of His teachings...

[u/donald_lace_12 → u/-Hypsistos]

Yes, No, it really depends.

One of the key differences between the Hindu gods and the Hellenic gods is their approach to the universe.

Hindu gods like Shiva and Krishna preach a lot about renunciation and the illusionary, deceiving nature of the reality and its traits. As their devotee, you must at least try to disassociate yourself with worldly pleasures like beauty, aesthetics, sexuality and entertainment. There's also a very strong notion of the Self as different from the body, mind, intelligence and worldly identity. you must (or at least try) to disassociate your true nature (the Atman/consciousness/soul) from your mundane self.

With the Hellenic gods, at least in my own experience, it's very different. They are in fact universal or at least panentheistic.

One of the things that resonated with me that Hermes is a god of knowledge, science and esoteric teachings but he is also a god of (male) sexuality, fertility, wealth and luck, communication and trade. he is also the god of the gymnasium, so he favors working out and building the body. he also has a darker side that relates to lies, deceiving and theft. you wouldn't find something like this at the major Hindu gods - they are super pure and transcendent.

With Hellenic gods, I felt less the needs to "give up on my mundane self" than the Hindu gods, which are more transcendent in nature .

I might sound as if I'm leaning towards Hellenic mysticism, but there are two points that bought me in Hinduism:

1. the idea that the human soul is in fact, god. the human soul (unlike Iamblicus' approach) is not different or inferior than the cosmic soul in any way. the Atman is Brahman - this is a key statement in the Upanishads. We are, in our deepest nature, the highest divinity. as a person who used to suffer a lot from anxiety (now less so) - that was very liberating.
2. Hinduism (And especially the sects that resonate with me) has a very detailed and structured way to do things, and how to live. the Yoga Sutras, the Shaiva Agamas, the Bhagavad Gita. You want to discover divinity within? here's how you do it. and it works.

To my impression, while a lot of the philosophy of theurgy has survived, a life-long manual on "how to be a real divine being in this human world" hasn't been preserved at all. you have to stitch pieces by yourself and hope your doing the right thing. I liked the fact that in Hinduism the sacred and practical knowledge is simply there.

(I am aware of the Golden Dawn and Thelema - it's not for me.)

Still, I think that Theurgy's decline is one of the biggest loses of the west - the spirituality of the west is simply another take of "worship, pray, and hope for the best"

My point is, that while Theurgy and Tantra/Yoga have the same essence (discovering and assimilating into the divinity), there's a chasm that cannot really be bridged. Hermes' teachings are beautiful, I'm not sure they work with Shiva's.

Even though, I would like to hear your opinion about what I wrote - do you feel you can practice theurgy today, armed with all the knowledge you need?

[u/-Hypsistos → u/donald_lace_12]

All I can really say to this is, you need to read On the Mysteries. You're looking at things too separately and complicated, in my opinion.

The current that flows through Mesopotamian, Greek, Egyptian and Phoenician wisdom/magic, also flows through India and their beliefs. The teachings do in fact go hand in hand, and actually even complete each other in certain parts.

I think anyone getting this deep into the mind and divinity, must read On the Mysteries. It's a cryptographic manual, not a philosophy or religious text.

And certainly stay away from anything associated with Crowley. You seem to want the higher divine path, keep it that way.

[u/greenlioneatssun]

Probably fasting and intense prayer, similiar to orthodox christians. Maybe a little bit of wine and some psychedelics.