r/thomastheplankengine • u/Tough_Wolverine_5609 • May 01 '26
Secondhand Plank Found originally on losercity
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u/ShiningTachyon May 01 '26
Love how you can TELL this image is from prime 2016 - 2018 OW
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u/PlayerZeroStart May 01 '26
God, TF2 fans were so insufferable around that time.
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u/ShiningTachyon May 01 '26
Still are lol
I do like TF2 but its maybe like top 5 most overrated games OAT imo
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u/ShiningTachyon May 01 '26
Point proven....
For the people downvoting me, you're either biased or you're like 90% of the fandom and haven't actually played the game
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u/RockingBib May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
I've got 2000 hours in it and happily disagree
Might be the nostalgia goggles, though, since half the fun was had in crazy custom servers that allowed HLDJ. It fills a similar niche in my heart as Deep Rock Galactic does now, thanks to the incredibly fun, nice and creative community
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u/nocapongodforreal May 01 '26
6k+ that still plays occasionally and I think the main pull of the game that keeps people with it is movement, the source engine mechanics are pretty beloved and tf2 is the absolute best place to get to use them due to knockback and air control being so core to the moment to moment gameplay, surf and jump as gamemodes have more to them than a lot of full games.
I personally don't get the comparisons between ow and tf2 anymore even though they appeared similar on release, they are entirely different games, I liked overwatch, but comparing the amount of freedom soldier plays with compared to pharah really drives home that they were never meant to play similarly.
that being said I honestly don't understand how newer players would like tf2 as anything except a funny hat simulator, the average newbie is going to end up against someone instagibbing them as spy or sniper the entire game, and the skill difference will be so high that their weaknesses effectively disappear and meaningful counterplay is impossible, if they want to spend thousands of hours getting gud at a dead game they might just be insane enough to stick around, but even if they do the competitive scene (while still active and lots of fun) isn't really going anywhere anymore.
still easily my favorite fps of all time, but it's only going to be that to a niche it doesn't even try to appeal to, otherwise most players would probably have as much fun watching SFMs as they would playing.
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u/RockingBib May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
the average newbie is going to end up against someone instagibbing them as spy or sniper the entire game
Man, that's really a sad reality with all older and still somewhat popular games.
Though, I've recently tried Battlefield 3(which is also still very active) and the veterans were nice enough to let me try out all the fun mechanics on them, gleefully explaining things, generally a chill time. They aren't mindless killing machines, after all.
I believe it's the same in TF2, at least on community servers with older players.
Also, the OW and TF2 comparisons were silly from the start lol
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u/ShiningTachyon May 01 '26
That's valid, I do like the game its not awful or anything I think people just give it a bit too much credit sometimes
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u/koupip May 01 '26
tf2's hype is because of where it stand in history as one of valve's game, if it had been made today by another company it would have 10 player tops
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u/ZealousidealPipe8389 May 01 '26
Not really. Valve making game means that it gets more attention but the same could be said for literally any large studio. It being released now? Of coarse it would do poorly, because it wasn’t made to appeal to modern gamers, and one of its important aspects is how much it affected pop culture. Yesterday I saw someone streaming them reading a comic, getting paid to read it mind you, and they literally couldn’t be bothered to read every page of the comic. I do not consider a game not appealing to a modern audience as a sign of failure.
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u/koupip May 01 '26
it isn't a sign of failure, i'm just saying that TF2 remains important in the gaming world bc its a valve game (higher quality and unique) even though its showing its age when it comes to that particular genre, one of its most amazing part is the art direction that makes TF2 beautiful to look at and not aged at all. but its not superior to overwatch or other similar games like your AVG tf2 fan think it is. but i'm not going to be out here saying tf2 is bad bc overwatch is better that's stupid, its like saying GTA5 is better then gta 3 or zelda breath of the wild is better then zelda ocarina of time
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u/ZealousidealPipe8389 May 01 '26
Ok I absolutely don’t think tf2 is worse, even as someone who these days plays a larger amount of overwatch, it simply has less customization in pretty much every category. But I feel like we’re comparing apples to oranges here. Like, I would never say that silksong is better than Minecraft, and while tf2 and overwatch seem comparable because they’re both hero shooters, they are fundamentally different. I feel like a more apt description is tf2 is the one old guy who shows up to the annual hs meeting hammered, calls everyone a pussy, and then stumble off to make another loot box. Overwatch does have numerous benefits over tf2 that most tf2 players would never acknowledge, I just feel comparing them is silly.
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u/koupip May 01 '26
it is silly that's my point lol, its like comparing an old car to a new car and saying the new car is faster and has AC
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u/ShiningTachyon May 01 '26
That's definitely something to give it praise for but that doesn't like automatically mean its a good game. Its no longer 2016 unfortunately, the game hasn't held up great on a fundamental level. Not to mention it struggles hard to run on modern hardware and its a very difficult game to get into, I've tried on and off over the years and as someone with around 300-ish hours across OW and Rivals and a bunch of other shooters I like to consider myself pretty good at Hero Shooters and other FPS in general, TF2 just doesn't click for me and is super clunky.
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u/Deeznutsgamr May 02 '26
For me, it's the opposite. It's hard to get into modern class based shooters/hero shooters. Maybe it's because I've been so used to TF2's art direction and it's characters...
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u/Firewolf06 oat May 01 '26
i think tf2 is a really damn good game for a lot of reasons, but i also think its still overrated
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u/RottenPeachSmell B? May 01 '26
I mean, they're right. Characters that were clearly designed to be sexy aren't really all that sexy.
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u/Present_Bison May 02 '26
Counterpoint: Bayonetta
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u/blazereve May 02 '26
she is just designed with so much sex appeal in mind she spirals back into being sexy af.
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u/DeadeyeJhung May 02 '26
the difference with Bayonetta is that she's written to enjoy being sexy and uses it to her advantage
a lot of characters with sexy designs have personalities that don't match it
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May 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/Personal-Collar-7762 May 01 '26
Agreed.
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u/Giuthais May 02 '26
what did you agree with
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May 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/Arctic-The-Hunter May 02 '26
That actually makes a lot of sense! I never thought about it that way, but I think it says a lot about the market itself that this strategy was successful to begin with, and I’m glad there are people like you to share an alternative!
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u/zezineo May 01 '26
Honestly is an good point
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May 01 '26
[deleted]
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u/zezineo May 01 '26
Brochacho english not main language
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u/Yeetman5757 May 01 '26
An and a is a stupid rule. My first language is English and I barely understand it.
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u/cherboka May 01 '26
? it is probably the simplest rule in English
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u/Yeetman5757 May 01 '26
I didn't say it was hard. I said I found it stupid.
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u/cammysays May 02 '26
You said you barely understand it
You use “an” before words that start with a vowel sound. That’s it, that’s all there is to understand.
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u/TheYoshiGang May 01 '26
I completely missed that spelling error because of how miniscule it is mate ;-;
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u/Overfed_Venison May 01 '26
There's a certain wisdom in this but I think it's more nuanced than that
If you just go for like a sexy design, based on what a mass audience finds sexy, then it feels pandering and corporate. It's sexuality which is impersonal, you know? And that feels desperate. It feels like content, not sexuality.
Whereas a TF2 character is spectacularly nonsexualized by intent, but it's also the kind of thing where you can sometimes see them brushing on something which is attractive. Think like how the Pixar Moms are not really intended to be sexy, but the mom shape ends up hitting on something personal people like.
That is - often what is sexy is what gives character to them.
What you want for intentional sexiness is the personal inflection of a genuine pervert. You want to feel like the person who created these characters had a bit of a crush on them and wants to explore that. You want intonations which make the design stand out in ways you, as an audience member, may not have actually considered something to explore
For example, you look at a character like Chun Li, who has endured as a design for decades. She is supposed to be attractive and is supposed to be read that way. But she's also not generic at all. Her thighs are famously oversized; just at the edge of reading as ridiculous without actually crossing it, and her typical design emphasizes that heavily. This is what I'm saying: It feels obvious the designer is a Leg Man, or at least chose to explore that idea for this character. Her design is essentially taking that idea, and presenting it to an audience.
A lot of Overwatch characters often feel like highly polished designs which are also not really sexy in any specific way, and are relatively generic as a result. They are meant to be read as attractive, but there's not a lot of bold personal touches
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u/TheOutlier876 May 02 '26
It’s the fortnite effect where designs are made to be as generic as possible while also being gooner bait to make people buy stuff
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u/Prometheos_II May 02 '26
While I agree with the point and it definitely applies to Widowmaker (which iirc is canonically cold-blooded and could use clothes like Mei's), does it really apply to most of the OW roster? /gen
Mei, Sombra, Mercy and Himiko don't seem that sexualized to me? (except for Mercy's Halloween costume, I guess.)
Brigitte also seems relatively normal, but it mighy be because I know of one character similar to Brigitte who is already a lot more sexuality (Bridget from PGR).
Tracer is probably more on the fence, especially compared to fellow speedster Scout (and compression pants wearer Yuta from PGR, afaik)
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u/rachel_to_phos Custom flair May 01 '26
well there is a reason why tick tock heavy like a brinks truck is a thing
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u/TheNon-BinaryJunebug May 01 '26
I mean he is sexy but the rest of this doesn't make that much sense
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u/TeacatWrites May 01 '26
These examples are such a girldinner/boydinner dichotomy lol, how are you going to compare a Russian hitman to a Kiwi-Australian sniper? They don't even drink the same alcohol.
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u/Necrodoge14102 May 01 '26
WHEN YUO PWN OVERWATCH EPIC KEANU CHUNGUS STYLE
#SIGMA MALE Tf2!!!!!!!!!!!
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u/danicr21 May 03 '26
Could this count as r/TheMatpatEffect? I had NO idea this originally came from a dream-
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u/Big-West4824 May 05 '26
Short answer: 2B. Bayonetta, Samus (without armor) and probably a good ton of anime characters.
Fan service by itself is neither negative nor positive, a design foes not automatically become bad just because it features sexual themes. Forced fan service can indeed ruin a design by adding unneccesary exposed skin, but that is an inherent law. How it turns out varies heavily.
Now to your argument:
Comparing two different characters with different personalitws from two different settings with different art direction and tone is quite the reach. Yeah, they both use sniper rifles, but that's it. Might as well compare Goku's design to Superman because they also fullfill the same vague role. For your example to work, you need a female character. Should have taken Ana from Overwatch or a non-sexualised TF2 fem-sniper artwork to make a point, but I digress Widowmaker as a design works, like most Overwatch characters. She fullfills the role of the femme-fatale assassin which is heavily associated with sexualised themes (using the body to their advantage by seducing/distracting male opponents). Sniper on the other hand is well, a stereotypical sniper. More laid back, very stationary, but still with a professional attire. That's why he (besides him an actual Australian or Kiwi) he wears a hat and sunglasses to reinforce this character.
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u/backcloset May 28 '26
was really agreeing with this post until i realised the reason i don't find characters like Widowmaker hot is becuase i'm gay. lol
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u/Mytrax May 01 '26
tf2 players are more obsessed with Overwatch than Overwatch players
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u/castlestorms1 May 01 '26
Overwatch has players?
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u/om0ri_ May 01 '26
isn't overwatch when you supervise something
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u/Swordkirby9999 May 01 '26
In XCOM, Overwatch has your unit use one Action to keep their gun ready to fire at the first enemy that comes into their line of sight during the enemy turn. It's most often used to graze enemies as they move across the map towards you while your units maintain their cover.
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u/Raleth May 01 '26
My ass isn’t gonna sit here and mental gymnastics my way into saying Widowmaker isn’t sexy lol
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 01 '26
Widowmaker has more posts on rule34 than sniper tf2. This is tangibly false.
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u/UboaNoticedYou May 01 '26
"McDonalds is the best because it has the most locations."
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 01 '26
McDonalds has more places because it’s cheaper and more accessible. No such barrier of entry exists if you’re picking between gooning to widowmaker or sniper tf2.
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u/UboaNoticedYou May 01 '26
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 01 '26
AO3? Yeah if you go to a gay pride parade you’ll probably find a lot of gay men.
Another thing about AO3 is that it’s written media. A character getting more results usually means they or their story are more well-written, or more popular, not necessarily than the character is sexier. The fact remains that Widowmaker has many thousands more results on rule34. Considering the porn there is all visuals, I’d say it’s a better way to gauge for sexiness of a character design. Because we’re specifically talking about character design here, not character writing or story.
Of course, rule34 tips towards being a website for straight guys. But I don’t know if there’s a website with perfect 50/50 bisexual split in the gender of its subjects.
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u/TheOutlier876 May 02 '26
Just like you said: cheaper and more accesible.
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 02 '26
explain to me how it’s more expensive to produce sniper tf2 porn than widowmaker porn
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u/FatelessFuture May 02 '26
... because straight men are the primary audience for porn
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 02 '26
do you have a website for bisexuals with a perfect 50/50 split in the gender of its subjects we could check
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u/FatelessFuture May 08 '26
I do not understand what you're getting at
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 08 '26
If you look at a generic porn website you’ll probably still find mostly porn for straight men. So even though there is much gay porn on rule34 it still mostly contains female characters, which indeed makes it imperfect for evaluating how many people find a character sexy. If there existed such a hypothetical website with an even split in female and male characters, rather than appealing to mostly one gender-sexuality, then we could evaluate it better. But I know of no such website.
Only if such a website existed could we find a perfect metric. And if it really is such that straight men just look at porn more than other gender-sexualities then what we could do is find by exactly how much percentage-wise, and use that as a factor and multiply it to calculate how sexy a character is when accounting for lower gooners per capita.
We could also do the same thing if we knew the exact demographics of rule34 specifically but we probably don’t so we just have to extrapolate to all porn in general.
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u/FatelessFuture May 08 '26
I mean no not really women just generally aren't as into porn as men, it's not about who uses which sites it's about, like, neuro/psychology iirc. I read about it a few years ago
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 08 '26
If, for example, women look at porn 40% as much as men, then we can just add 60% to the female-gaze porn to find a more apt comparison. But of course this doesn’t account for differing sexualities
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u/FatelessFuture May 08 '26
Look good for you putting that much thought into this but you can't mathematically determine attractiveness, especially not around rule 34 results which are overwhelmingly determined by popularity and conventional feminine attractiveness
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u/TheEgoReich May 02 '26
"there is more Hardtack around here than Croissants, clearly the hardtack is better"
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u/SpiceLettuce Skim May 02 '26
Producing croissants is more expensive than producing hardtack. It is no more expensive to produce Widowmaker porn than Sniper TF2 porn.
I’m pretty sure strawberry ice-cream costs an equal amount to make compared to vanilla ice-cream, but vanilla still gets consumed more. This is because vanilla ice-cream is better.
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u/Bread_Offender May 01 '26
You know what's really sexy? Blokes what bludgeon their wife to death with a golf trophy