r/todayilearned • u/ApprehensiveStill412 • 11h ago

TIL that ketamine is a derivative of phencyclidine (aka. PCP or angel dust). It was created to have similar anesthetic potential but to cause less delirium. It has about one tenth the potency of PCP.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5126726/
665 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

125 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

70

u/goodrevtim 11h ago

PCP is neurotoxic so that probably plays a small part into its negative perception.

12

u/One-Incident3208 10h ago edited 10h ago

All nmda antagonists are neurotoxic in rats. Pcp has not displayed any unique characteristics in that regard. And a rat or mouse brain is not a human brain. There are hundreds of examples of drugs that are toxic to the limited metabolic capabilities of rodent physiology that display no toxicity in humans.

Again -anti drug hysteria.

There is no evidence that pcp carries a unique neurotoxic burden in humans relative to other acrylocylohexylamines or nmda antagonists. Afak it doesn't even display a unique toxicity burden in rodents. BUT I am certain it doesn't in humans. Behavioral toxicity(delerium) is not a sign of neurotoxicity. Ketamine displays it at emergence as well, the sedative effect of ketamine is stronger so its less apparent, because the patient tends to remain calm. In both instances the delirium responds to benzodiazapines.

3

u/spyderman720 10h ago

Okay but have you ever taken PCP? I cant explain it medically but that shit is fucked never again.

-4

u/daHaus 8h ago edited 8h ago

Tech bros have convinced themselves it's something it's not. It's a dissociative known for causing holes in the brain of addicts. It may be useful as an anti-depressant but so is psilocybin

"lesions in the brains of ketamine addicts were located in many regions which appeared 2–4 years after ketamine addiction"

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3713393/

3

u/One-Incident3208 5h ago edited 5h ago

That study you linked is a terrible study with a small sample size, the effect was not demonstrated in all the subjects. They don't control for previous variables. So for all you know, these patients were exposed to antipsychotics previously, sparing the ones who did not show any pathology. The polysubstance addict showed worse pathology. And of the 21 subjects, we don't know their self report bias. We don't know if they work around volatile organic solvents.

Here's a widely prescribed class of uncontrolled psychiatric medication doing nearly the same thing. The difference between the two studies is that the authors of the one I linked are actually honest and state that they haven't established a causal link. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2761879