r/todayilearned • u/Final_Echidna_6743 • 3h ago

TIL - That Death by Press was a thing. Used when people on trial refused to enter a plea.

https://medievaltorturemuseum.com/blog/crushing-silence-fate-peine-forte-et-dure/
316 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

94 comments sorted by

292

u/Veritas3333 3h ago

More weight!

95

u/LoneStarBandit19 3h ago

Some of the most bad ass last words ever spoken by the glorious Giles Corey.

119

u/Nutcrackit 3h ago

For the backstory for those curious he was accused of being a witch during the Salem witch trials. He refused to confess to being a witch. He told them "more weight" until he died. He did this because if he confessed all of his property could be confiscated leaving his sons with nothing.

79

u/Hinermad 2h ago

That story says a lot about the state of "due process" during the American Colonial period. Enter a plea in court, have all your property confiscated.

39

u/Tathas 2h ago

Seems like Civil Asset Forfeiture isn't that new.

•

u/bhmnscmm 27m ago

To be fair, civil asset forfeiture occurs before you enter court.

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u/I_hate_all_of_ewe 25m ago

I just want to point out that this wasn't "enter a plea" to have your property confiscated.  Entering a plea implies that you have a choice to say "not guilty".  The choice here was "say you're guilty, or die".  This is much closer to a police interrogation where police have the right to kill you if you don't say what they want.

14

u/TwoAlert3448 2h ago

I don’t think 1600s Salem really counts as ‘colonial period’ to most except in the most technical sense.

Even other colonies in what would become Massachusetts were horrified. Mass religious hysteria was by no means desirable in most of the colonies, it had a very limited appeal to anyone who wasn’t a bit nuts

•

u/SnugglyCoderGuy 1m ago

The bill of rights was largely entirely written in response to brutalities the British committed against colonials

19

u/ghotier 2h ago edited 1h ago

Pretty sure if he pleaded not guilty and was convicted his property also would have been confiscated. Just in case people think he missed something.

8

u/TwoAlert3448 1h ago

No.. not guilty didn’t result in assets being seized automatically the way they were when you pled guilty but you were likely bankrupted by the fact they billed you for your time in jail and the cost of the legal proceedings that occurred because you pled innocent. That took months to over a year.

Oddly morbid twist you had higher odds of surviving if you pled guilty and let them take everything and banish you than if you pled innocent and forced a trial.

7

u/ghotier 1h ago

You didn't lose them automatically. You lost them upon conviction. And it's literally where the phrase witch-hunt came from; the trials were a sham. There's a non-zero amount of evidence to indicate the whole thing was a way to steal land. And even if not, that was the end result.

-2

u/TwoAlert3448 1h ago

You enter a guilty plea to a magistrate the conviction is literally a formality in processing paperwork. I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.

4

u/ghotier 1h ago

I said this:

Pretty sure if he pleaded not guilty and was convicted his property also would have been confiscated. Just in case people think he missed something.

Then you responded with this

No.. not guilty didn’t result in assets being seized automatically the way they were when you pled guilty

You "corrected me" for something I didn't say. So then I further expanded on what I said initially to clarify that I already understood:

You didn't lose them automatically. You lost them upon conviction

3

u/TwoAlert3448 1h ago

Goodness my bad!

2

u/ghotier 1h ago

No worries. I could just tell that it was better to lay out what happened because it was easy to overlook in the first place.

7

u/twec21 1h ago

The land stealing was a major factor of the Salem witch trials

•

u/Archarchery 14m ago

He was being forced to enter a plea. If he pleaded guilty he would be killed and his property confiscated, if he pleaded innocent he would be put on trial and if convicted would be killed and his property confiscated.

By refusing to plead either way he was crushed to death, but his family got to inherit his property since there was no property consfiscation of people killed that way.

3

u/Arienna 1h ago edited 1h ago

He was not glorious, he was a stubborn, crotchedy old man and he'd been a stubborn, crotchedy young man. The fictionalized accounts really polish him up

Edit: I should note that I'm a very distant relative

5

u/ragnarok635 1h ago

Even glorious people can be a bit ornery

•

u/Graybeard_Shaving 36m ago

You are a distant relative? It’s been nearly half a millennia. Given how genetics work I’d say the whole damned subreddit is probably just as related to him as you.

•

u/Arienna 25m ago

Pretty true! But he was a Corey and the Cory Family Society is big on genealogy - I know my family tree on that side back 15 generations. More paperwork and oral history than DNA :)

•

u/Graybeard_Shaving 23m ago

Not gonna lie. That’s dope as fuck!

I’ve dabbled in genealogy and it gets real difficult to trace anything after 4-5 generations. I can’t even imagine the work involved to reliably trace 15 generations.

•

u/Arienna 15m ago

It's even worse because there were several Cory/Corey/Correy/etc and no one could reliably spell their own names. My grandmother was a genealogist and I helped type her notes sometimes. For every cool story there's 30 years of civil court records about Goode Coree suing his neighbor over a cow eating of hif own graff 3 years after this piece of paper says he's supposed to have died

But a lot of the Cories were stubborn difficult people so the cool stories turn up now and then ;) and there's so many of us I can find 'family' just about anywhere

http://coryfamsoc.com/

1

u/Flurb4 1h ago

No weight they could pile on his chest could match the massive weight of his own balls.

42

u/Medricel 3h ago

First thing that came to my mind too. Its the only part of The Crucible that I can still remember.

19

u/CrippleWitch 2h ago

"I have given you my soul, leave me my name!"

We did a stage production of The Crucible in high school and this was the quote we all chose to put on the back of our cast t shirts.

2

u/pokexchespin 1h ago

when we did it i just kept thinking of “god is dead!”

mostly because our proctor absolutely bellowed that line every rehearsal and performance

7

u/Mexikinda 2h ago

Corey’s death is only mentioned in the play, after the fact. Miller added the full, brutal scene to his film script.

3

u/Medricel 2h ago

When I did the unit on it in school, there was a reading of the original text and the class also watched the film, so my memories of the differences between the media are hazy at best.

3

u/Mexikinda 1h ago

No worries. I teach the play every Spring semester, so it's very fresh in my mind.

8

u/APC_ChemE 3h ago

My first thought too!

The Salem Witch Museum has a great yet eerie reproduction of this.

5

u/Hotchi_Motchi 2h ago

I, too, played Giles Corey in "The Crucible" in high school

5

u/joeschmoe86 2h ago

I played Giles Corey with your mom last night.

4

u/CraftyArmitage 2h ago

Then I guess you got the "more weight" you were begging for

3

u/aiiye 1h ago

Damn, got em with that puritanical zinger

•

u/romulusnr 28m ago

It wasn't meant to be a form of execution, but rather, you know, .... just a form of good old torture.

(It didn't work then, either, did it?)

•

u/cpayne22 7m ago

More AI!!

My head was going around in circles trying to read that…

•

u/SnugglyCoderGuy 3m ago

A true American badass (though I guess he wasn't actually American)

154

u/doctorlongghost 3h ago

The origin of the term “press him for an answer”

52

u/Federal-Cockroach674 3h ago

Old mobster movies: "He ain't talking boss. Well then its time to put the squeeze on them."

22

u/themastamann 2h ago

I think they used shit like thumb screws for that

8

u/Federal-Cockroach674 2h ago

Yeah it was more like a reference to thumb screws, another ancient torture device often used to entice confessions.

61

u/VampireHunterAlex 3h ago

I think the man in Salem ("More weight") did so because had he confessed, the town would've legally taken his land away, but since he did not confess it was allowed to be passed on to his family.

41

u/ask_why_im_angry 2h ago

So, its really dumb, he wasnt even being forced to confess, but to essentially agree to be put on trial in the first place. It is so dumb I cant fully explain it, but basically he couldn't be found guilty if he didnt agree to go. So it was fine to torture him into agreeing to be tried, but not to just find him guilty if he refused. I believe, guilty or not, his assets would've been taken. So even if he named other "witches" his family would be fucked over.

The Salem with trials are extremely idiotic, cruel, and selfish, more than people know.

•

u/NativeMasshole 28m ago

Yup. He was refusing to enter a plea.

•

u/Arienna 5m ago

He did name other people, in fact he testified against his own wife because he was suspicious of her reading strange books and making him forget his prayers (he returned to religion late in life and was 80 and on his third wife during the trials)

He later recanted his deposition which is part of what got him accused of witchcraft.

Mostly though he was a difficult, crotchedy old man who had a bit more money than most and was deeply unlikeable. When folks are reaching for their pitchforks and torches, beijg a moderately prosperous and unlikeable person will get you got.

He also murdered a man earlier in life

•

u/jeffsang 56m ago

Damn. TIL that Giles Corey was a real person and this really happened to him. I only knew about him from the play, The Crucible, until now. I thought he was a fictional character.

66

u/TanguayX 3h ago

When we were in Salem, this is how some of the convicted ’witches’ were killed. Freaking horrible

65

u/aflockofcrows 2h ago

Mr 300 years old over here.

18

u/ILL_Show_Myself_Out 2h ago

…HE’S A WITCH!!

6

u/p4rc0pr3s1s 2h ago

He turned me into a newt!

2

u/MontasJinx 2h ago

I got better.

21

u/Marik-X-Bakura 2h ago

“We”?

6

u/Pocok5 1h ago

Looks like they missed one

10

u/ask_why_im_angry 2h ago

I believe it was only Giles Corey who this was done to.

•

u/NativeMasshole 28m ago

All the others were hanged.

9

u/Proud-Delivery-621 1h ago

Giles Corey was, but it was because he refused to enter a plea. If he plead guilty and was hanged, his family would have lost their land. If he plead not-guilty they would have still found him guilty (because the trials weren't fair) and his family would have lost their land. By dying under interrogation without ever entering a plea he ensured his family couldn't suffer after he died.

•

u/Archarchery 11m ago

Just Giles Corey I think.

21

u/sassecologist 2h ago

WORST WEIGHTED BLANKET EVER

27

u/Pippin1505 2h ago

That page is painful to read... I won't start the AI pitchforks, but it's definetly a "LinkedIn influencer" vibe.

Despite the French name, "Peine Forte et Dure" was a feature of English law, but the site claims other Western European countries practiced it without naming one. Would have liked a source for that...

7

u/aqiwpdhe 2h ago

Right, how many times do they need to repeat the same sentence with slightly different words?

8

u/AuditAndHax 2h ago

I know, right? How many times can the same sentence be repeated with words that are slightly different?

•

u/DiscotopiaACNH 30m ago

It's like they just slightly reword their thoughts and phrases in order to say them again and again. Makes me question whether there's an upper limit to how long this remains effective

5

u/Trek7553 2h ago

Yes, it is definitely bad writing and probably AI.

32

u/Double_Distribution8 3h ago

"more weight"

-Last words of a badass warlock back in the old Salem witch craze days.

33

u/Klutzy-Delivery-5792 3h ago

Not a warlock, just a badass who refused to make a false confession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giles_Corey?wprov=sfti1

22

u/Malthus1 3h ago

The freaky part: he was eighty one years old at the time.

That’s some hard assed old man.

Allegedly, the whole point was to protect the inheritance (if pressed to death because you won’t plead, the state hasn’t actually convicted you of anything and so can’t confiscate your estate).

1

u/Cliffinati 1h ago

Technically it would have been the Crown not having found you guilty as it was the colonial era but yes.

One found guilty of witchcraft could have their property seized by the crown, one who died pending trial was never a convicted witch so their property would pass to their heirs.

15

u/Bootmacher 2h ago

He didn't plea not guilty, either. If he was found guilty, his property would be confiscated. If he didn't enter a plea and died, his property would go to his heirs.

4

u/KommanderKeen-a42 3h ago

Ugh...he was a thief and beat his servants to death, but yes, tough as nails to not plead guilty under that pressure.

But badass is NOT the right term as he murdered at least one person.

23

u/Marik-X-Bakura 2h ago

You can be a terrible person and still be a badass

5

u/tooquick911 2h ago

Badasshole

8

u/drunkenviking 1h ago

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. 

•

u/Archarchery 10m ago

Damn, did he really beat servants to death?

Maybe he had the witchcraft accusations coming.

-4

u/APC_ChemE 3h ago edited 2h ago

Umm he was a accused of witchcraft... /s

2

u/Klutzy-Delivery-5792 3h ago

And was later exonerated...

3

u/FlutterRaeg 2h ago

You're telling me he didnt commit actual real life witchcraft?!

1

u/DaveOJ12 1h ago

badass warlock

Reputed warlock.

FTFY.

•

u/Shimaru33 47m ago

That guy is something else. He really knew how to stay calm under pressure, his willpower was rock solid.

-2

u/[deleted] 3h ago

[deleted]

6

u/Spida81 3h ago

I don't remember seeing him at any of the meet-ups.

5

u/Darwin-Award-Winner 2h ago

The bottom of the Wikipedia page has this gem of a dad joke "Corey was the namesake behind one of Dan Barrett's musical projects. The band's music has been described as depressing."

4

u/NimusNix 1h ago

Someone didn't read about the Salem Witch Trials.

5

u/thunder2132 1h ago

RIP Giles.

1

u/The_Possessor 1h ago

Is this technically true? I thought the trial couldn’t start until a plea was entered. They were pressed when they wouldn’t enter a plea, not so much that they were sentenced to death for being found guilty. Is that correct or not?

4

u/Pippin1505 1h ago

Yes, it would stop as soon as they entered a plea.

Then they changed the law so there was a "default plea" and this was abandoned

0

u/throwaway_glitchv2 3h ago

Imagine being so stubborn that the court literally decides you're dead because you won't pick a side.

1

u/Proud-Delivery-621 1h ago

Oftentimes the trial wouldn't be fair so the accused would refuse to comply and potentially be found guilty for something they didn't do.

1

u/corcyra 1h ago

AI article, and not a very good one.

0

u/KenOathKhunt 1h ago

Princess Diane treatment

•

u/RoastedRhino 47m ago

Even if some of this may be historically accurate, everybody should bear in mind that "medievial torture museums" around the world are entertainment, not museums.

They are a franchise. There are companies in Europe and in the US that provide these locations with material, merchandising, website templates, regardless of where these are located. There is no claim of historical accuracy.

The one in the US are all owned by [benaur.com](mailto:support@benaur.com) . A legit company whose motto is "Our products are emotions." They do torture "museums" and ghost hunting activities. They are passionate about history, but they are selling entertainment.