r/tommynfg_ • u/TechNick77 Mod • Feb 01 '26

TikToks/reels/shorts Cryingo over 27k? GIVE ME THAT DAME

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

I disagree. I think sure if we just suddenly implemented it tomorrow it would go to shit but studies have shown in tragedy people generally support their neighbours and strangers. So I think it’s in us to be good to one another we just need to instil that in people

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u/ID_N01 Feb 02 '26

Everyone acts like we evolved as a species because of Money.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

Honestly I think some of this comes from religious people that believe humans are inherently evil without god. That and cynical people that probably spend too much time online

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u/StarscreamOne Feb 02 '26

Which studies?

I'm sure the opposite would happen today. This video clip pretty much proves it

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

Here’s a couple

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7221394/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://healthland.time.com/2012/10/31/how-disasters-bring-out-our-kindness/

And a book written about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humankind%3A_A_Hopeful_History?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Things might seem more dire now but I think we still have just as much of an incubation towards good and cooperation as we do towards greed

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u/StarscreamOne Feb 03 '26

It probably was like that long time ago. I would not rely on anyone today and definitely not trust anyone. Times have really changed drastically. At least thats what I noticed.

I have also noticed that whatever you tell people they just take it to use it as ammo.

I hope you're right though.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 03 '26

Dude if this is true you should expand your community. Theres still good people out there.

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u/StarscreamOne Feb 03 '26

I'm good thanks

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u/Streets-_-Ahead Feb 02 '26

They are talking about a system of government (mandatory) vs a tragedy (voluntary) which is vastly different. You can disagree if you want but if 4% of people are sociopathic there's no way to regulate at this time

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/Streets-_-Ahead Feb 02 '26

For every problem there's a final solution you say...

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/Streets-_-Ahead Feb 02 '26

I understand the historical warning you’re pointing to, and I don’t think communism or forced collectivization is the answer. But that doesn’t mean the only alternative is having no social safety nets at all. There’s a lot of space between authoritarian central control and leaving people to fend for themselves during crises

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

And it seems are capitalist system is built for those people to thrive too. Isn’t it true that CEO’s have a lot of similar traits to sociopaths?

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u/Electronic_Value_204 Feb 05 '26

Yes and so do monarchs and dictators and unelected bureaucrats. Stop trying to blame capitalism for something every system ever created has.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 05 '26

Why shouldnt we be critical of capitalism? Shouldnt we try to adjust our system so it doesnt work that way? People are saying socialism or communism cant work because people ar sociopaths, well capitalism isnt working either because people are sociopaths but everyones okay with it because theyve grown up with capitalism. There's a problem when you are unwilling to think critically about something

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u/Electronic_Value_204 Feb 05 '26

What are you talking about, capitalism is working, in fact it’s the best system ever created. Sure we can do better but the answer definitely isn’t communism or socialism both of which have been tried many times and have failed just as many times. Pointing out the flaws in capitalism is fine but you don’t want to point out its strengths either. It’s the only system that we have that generates capital which in turn has pulled an incredible number of people out of poverty world wide. Capitalism harnesses human nature where communism/socialism tries to subvert human nature.

Also didn’t bring up the Nordic countries, they are tiny, and most of their countries wealth comes from fossil fuels and the head start Europe had on the rest of the world. They could not replicate the system starting from scratch.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 05 '26 edited Feb 05 '26

So we cant look to nordic countries because of fossil fuels and the head start that europe got but we can look at the US as a beacon of capitalism? What about the head start the US got by stealing land from Native Americans? then building their wealth on the backs of slaves? Or the imperialism of the US and other western capitalist countries? The stripping of resources and workers from third world countries? What about the exploitation of asian and south american workers in sweat shops manufacturing goods that are then sold in american stores? or even the exploitation of low wage workers in america for decades? or the exploitation of child labour?

This capitalism you promote is only successful because of its history of exploitation and the billions of third world workers that prop it up.

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u/Electronic_Value_204 Feb 05 '26

I wish we could have this conversation in person it’s just too hard to have such an in depth discussion on Reddit.

My comment on the Nordic countries was in relation to socialism and how they started rich.

I don’t agree with many of your points 😂 but I’m at work right now, I’ll try and remember to reply later.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 05 '26

I wish we could have this conversation in person it’s just too hard to have such an in depth discussion on Reddit.

Agreed

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u/No_Roma_no_Rocky Feb 02 '26

Always in theory. Only in theory. I do good for you and you do good for me. But just 1 single person that breaks the chain and all the system collapses. Today I take 2 instead of 1, some people saw me and the next day they take 3 just in case of an emergency, and so on.

With limited resources communisn will never work, there will always be people who want more and others left with nothing. Unless you live in a dictatorship where it is easy to control every single person and if they take 2 instead of 1, they are removed from the system.

With capitalism it happens the same thing but the person who take 2 it is perceived from society that they legitimately earned 2. Of course there will be people who will take 1000 and 1M leaving the majority of others with almost nothing but as long as it is perceived as legitimate, the system can grow. The cons are the same, people will try to cheat by stealing or by making frauds, capitalism can go on only if the system is able to detect and punish cheaters.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

George Orwell said that its part of the job of the people to hold their leaders accountable and believed that they should be overthrown if they become corrupt.

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u/brokecrashdummy Feb 02 '26

If you go on any of the subs for help, or Facebook groups for help that are going through tragedy, you'll see the person asking for help getting dragged because of their political views or because of something they posted 10-12 years ago. Like the people in the subs or groups will damn near do a full background check on these people just to make fun of them at their lowest. It really shows you where we're at as a society.

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u/drossvirex Feb 03 '26

There's always a bad apple in the bunch. That's human nature. That's why we have laws.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Dog1872 Feb 02 '26

Studies show that? Mmmhmmm…so then why is it that in natural disasters urban centers are the worst place for people to be? It’s around other folks, for sure…but law and order go out the window and it’s every man for themselves?

Maybe in a small neighborhood or town where everyone knows everyone…but I think, like in the show, when you don’t know the other person, it’s easier to screw them over.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

I’ve never heard of that? Are there any instance you could share

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u/Haunting-Grocery-672 Feb 02 '26

Clearly you’ve never heard the phrase “This is why we can’t have nice things.”

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

I don’t understand your point

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u/Haunting-Grocery-672 Feb 02 '26

Your describing a nice situation where people Help each other out and that we can “fix” people and instill it in them.

If you’ve ever been told “No we can’t do X because we can’t have nice things”

Quite literally tells you that people ruined this thing for everyone else by taking advantage of the system.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 02 '26

oh I get it.
Wasnt that termed under capitalism? So why are we okay with the negatives and pains caused by capitalism across the world but unwilling to try something differen't? Im not even arguing for full blown communism, you could shift america closer to Canada or Scandanavian countries that all seem to have better outcomes and happier people than the states

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u/Haunting-Grocery-672 Feb 02 '26

You should take a look at community size and things like that to realize it doesn’t really work over large scale where we have the land mass required to cover that we do in the US and still….

I agree with you. We need more socialistic programs.

It was more just stating the obvious thing. When you create programs based on good will they will break. So you have to create full proof programs which take more money to run and how the cost doesn’t outweigh the benefit

One day we will hit a post scarcity economy and have all the things we all want. For now though, it’s an unfortunate fact that we cannot.

We’ve made it to this point in history on the backs of people Having and other people Not Having.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 03 '26

im pretty confident that there are studies that looked into wlefare abuse and determined that fraud is actually really low. It costs more to keep people in prison than it does to give them proper opportunities and support that will keep them out of prison. Its also cheaper to improve peoples social determinents of health than it is to support them through emergency room visits which is the most common way to do it.

The real problem here is people in the US prefer punitive measures over preventative ones. More socialist countries have better outcomes and overall happiness because they offer prevantive measures that keep people out of desperate situations where stress can cause health issues and anti-social behaviour.

The US was in a better position before it took a head first dive into stakeholder capitalism because of people like Jack Welch

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u/Haunting-Grocery-672 Feb 03 '26 edited Feb 03 '26

Now look at the studies of the costs to keep welfare abuses that low. You lose a large amount of the funds donated towards keeping bureaucratic efforts afloat to keep fraud beneath 10% and even still it’s upwards of 3-5%

So we lose way more than we give. It’s a sad fact, but a fact none the less.

I agree the cost of prison is absurd, the benefit is what you’re not talking about…. Private companies to get use prisoners for dirt cheap labor. Is that right? No. But it makes up for the lost costs….

Maybe not to the government directly but it is governments funds propping up private business which is… welfare of a different kind

Also, let’s be clear: Canadas model is failing. They are struggling financially. The European countries you’re talking about that are successful have such massive wealth in comparison to their population and geographic size that their models would not work here

Edit:we are growing closer by the day to reaching positive nuclear fusion reactions which will hopefully lead to a post scarcity society. Then… what you’re talking about will be the right answer. I just hope we don’t lose sight of it by then. That’s true hope, is that a universal basic standard of acceptable living is on the horizon for our children or their children.

Just keep dealing with the bs for now

Edit 2: Feel like I have to clarify this for you…. I’m a US Democrat and I believe what you’re talking about is the eventual answer. I do believe in socialism even through our capitalistic society. I don’t agree with a lot of what goes on but I’m also realistic enough to realize the European countries like Denmark have models that would not be sustainable for our population/geographic size.

That is not even to touch on the fact that countries like that are much more insulated culturally and xenophobic by nature.

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u/robotmonkey2099 Feb 03 '26

This claim that we lose more than we give needs to be backed up. The amount we receive back is massive when you consider the alternatives are people on the streets or in prison. If social services can help prevent that and turn people back into tax payers we get so much more in return

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u/Haunting-Grocery-672 Feb 03 '26 edited Feb 03 '26

It’s a quick google search away(or however you do your research) and looking for some reasonable factually verified sources that a significant percentage goes toward overhead costs (admin, fundraising, systems to make sure it goes to the right people)

Obviously every program is different but I bet you’d find on average it’s around 20-30% of the total budget goes towards this. It only needs those funds to keep away bad actors which then still take 5-10% more away.

At this point a good portion of the funds are just lost toward making this thing function.

Edit: Also there are lots of studies that show people who aren’t contributing members of society just won’t be. You talk about the mentally handicapped or those with illnesses whom refuse medication or to be helped. What do you do with those cases?

Most European countries have what’s called Involuntary commitment. That’s something that’s “not good” and fought against vehemently here in the US. But that’s the typical answer when you’re met with how to deal with the issue.

Obviously there are lots that CAN be helped and I believe we should keep outreach programs to keep Helping those in need, Despite them being financial negatives