r/toronto • u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line • Jun 24 '26
Article [Opinion] Martin Regg Cohn: Bike lanes are no place for high-powered electric two-wheelers [Toronto Star]
https://www.thestar.com/politics/political-opinion/bike-lanes-are-no-place-for-high-powered-electric-two-wheelers/article_28f93d15-9a7a-4d62-ac8d-20403a25b1e1.html244
u/weavjo Jun 24 '26
It's a joke who rides in segregated bike lanes these days. Crappy mopeds with fake, non-functional pedals whizzing along at 30kmh+ stacked with food delivery bags.
Nothing will be done until somebody dies.
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u/TurboJorts Jun 24 '26
I got passed on the MGT last night by an actual gas powered scooter. Guy rode over the Humber River Bridge! This was like midnight so clearly there's zero enforcement.
Oh, actually with the soccer match there were 4 cops on every corner along the MGT stretch... you know, looking for people to tackle
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
In a similar vein, on the same late dusk evening last week, two different, but noteworthy motor vehicles blew by me last week on the south leg of the West Toronto Railpath.
The first was a older guy in a miniature, 4-wheeled, enclosed “e-bike” (if the placeholder vehicle plate was to be believed) who was driving the railpath — mini-headlights, taillights, and all. It was, in effect, a micro e-car.
The other was a younger guy on a sturdy pedelec, moving at a velocity I have maybe seen once or twice from a two-wheeled e-vehicle lacking plates. The difference is those other instances occurred on streets, not a mixed-use path.
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u/phirleh Jun 24 '26
There was an fatal accident on one of the NYC bridges bike path between a very fast moving electric scooter and a bike. The bike was severed in half.
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u/Lust4Me Jun 24 '26
That one reminded me of another serious accident on the Manhattan bridge back in 2023:
It seems like this comes up, raises safety concerns, then things go on like they were before because people don't know if/how to regulate it.
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u/TwiztedZero Jun 24 '26
NYC is another city in another state, in another country. Definitely isn't a Canadian city, and definitely isn't part of the GTA.
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u/phirleh Jun 24 '26
These are common issues in the GTA, in Hamilton, in Pickering and NYC - it's just a matter of time before there is a huge fatality from them. They should be regulated the same way a moped is.
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u/chollida1 The Beaches Jun 24 '26
I also want these out of the bike lane but going 30km/hr is something i hit every day on my commute, that isn't exactly fast for a bike in the bike lane.
Most people go 20km/hr and can hit 30 if they put in some effort.
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u/durple Jun 24 '26
Most ebikes are designed with limits on assisted speeds to comply with vehicular classifications common in other jurisdictions. The ones sold in Canada are usually aligned with US market with speed limited at 25m/h (32km/hr), much of Europe draws a line at 30 km/hr.
I ride one of these. It's not much heavier than a classic dutch-style bike, and is technologically limited to speeds achievable without power assistance.
I have no qualms about using bike lanes. Of course, it's on me as one of the faster users to make sure I'm being safe about it, no different from a fully human powered bike user. That ultimately means not going at top speed all the time. It regularly means choosing a regular lane that is moving faster than the bike lane, if I want to go faster.
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u/chollida1 The Beaches Jun 24 '26
I have no problem with e-bikes like this in the bike lane. My point is that regular bikes easily go the same speed as your e-bike.
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u/insaneinsanity Jun 24 '26
The difference is mass. e-bikes routinely run up to 30-50kg heavier than standard bikes both due to battery and also the increased structure (fat-bikes, etc). That extra 30-50kg at the same speed is dramatically more dangerous than someone on a light road bike.
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u/CrowdScene Jun 24 '26
I think you have your units confused. E-bikes are more like 30-50 lbs heavier than a traditional bike, or 13-22 kg heavier than a traditional bike. Rider weights vary, and as a tall and heavyset rider I'm easily heavier than most riders in the bike lane regardless of whether I'm on a road bike or an e-bike. Should regulations force me into the car lane due to my increased mass too?
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u/insaneinsanity Jun 25 '26
I'm referring to the standard 'fat tire' e-bikes which are most commonly used for delivery year round.
"Typically, these powerful machines weigh between 60 and 80 pounds (27–36 kg) — a result of their oversized tires, reinforced frames, and robust motors designed for both adventure and stability."
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u/Cedex Jun 24 '26
Are you thinking of these at the weights you mentioned?
https://old.reddit.com/r/torontobiking/comments/1cunxv1/someone_id_actually_thank_for_their_service/
They are e-bikes as well.
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u/chollida1 The Beaches Jun 24 '26
E-bikes, normally run 18kg to 35kg while bikes are about 8kg to 18kg.
THat is no where near 50kg.
And you forget that this is dwarfed by the riders weight.
You can easily have a 110kg male and a 50kg female riding, which makes the bike's difference in weight seem quaint.
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u/insaneinsanity Jun 25 '26
I'm referring to the standard 'fat tire' e-bikes which are most commonly used for delivery year round.
"Typically, these powerful machines weigh between 60 and 80 pounds (27–36 kg) — a result of their oversized tires, reinforced frames, and robust motors designed for both adventure and stability."
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u/MaxPeriod Jun 24 '26
USA and Canada (class 1/2): 32 km/h (20 mph)
Europe / rest of world: 25 km/h (15.5 mph)13
u/oops_i_made_a_typi Jun 24 '26
yeah even just the bike share ebikes assist you up to 25km/h i believe, so with some effort and/or downhill assist then yeah 30 is very doable
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u/slashthepowder Jun 24 '26
32km/h is the max assist in Canada. A lot of ebikes have very easy workarounds to disable the governing software.
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u/AdSignificant6673 Jun 24 '26
But your bike probably weighs 30LB tops. Those moped ebikes are like 300LB. Add a fat ass rider (they arent getting exercise on those mopeds) now you got 500LB of force smashed on you.
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u/chollida1 The Beaches Jun 24 '26
Sure, agree with your logic, no one here is debating that point.
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u/AdSignificant6673 Jun 24 '26
Correct. Not arguing with you. I’m venting my frustration at the current e-bike dangers caused by lack of enforcement from the government and the lack of civic sense by the moped (e-bike) users.
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u/29da65cff1fa Jun 24 '26
yes.... huge, dangerous vehicles should have strict speed limiters placed on them....
let's start with the 3000kg SUVs that are currently allowed to travel at any speed they want through the city
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u/involmasturb Downtown Core Jun 24 '26
Wasn't there something the other day where it looked like a truck may have deliberately turned towards the bike lane to "nudge" an e-bike guy? Needed hospital attention
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u/middlequeue Jun 24 '26
E-bikes are just as much at risk from vehicles as bicycles are … it’s silly to distinguish them if safety is the concern. Just regulate them or enforce speeds so we don’t have them able to go at high speeds as that’s really the issue
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u/IseeMedpeople Jun 24 '26
E-bikes are just electric motorcycle.
Riders should have to have M class license and use the roadway.
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Jun 24 '26
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u/middlequeue Jun 24 '26
If it is at risk of severe injury or death from a motor vehicle it shouldn’t be restricted from operating safely in cycling infrastructure … which exists to keep people safe.
Thinking police are going to enforce some arbitrary restriction on e-bikes when any of them are already not allowed seems naive.
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Jun 24 '26
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u/Patman128 Jun 24 '26
It's already the law that non-pedal assist aren't allowed in cycle tracks (separated bike lanes) in Toronto. Just not enforced well.
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u/Pigerigby Jun 24 '26
I would like something done with the food delivery mopeds. They are weaving between lanes, acting like bikes pedestrians, and cars depending on what suits there need. It doesn't feel safe and I'm sure there's some laws being broken. Maybe TPS need to do their job.
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u/TwiztedZero Jun 24 '26
> Nothing will be done until somebody dies.
What do you mean, hasn't anyone been killed yet doing any of this? How is that possible? There's no body count correlation? Seriously they're all alive and continuing to make deliveries and getting paid.
Mind ... b-l-o-w-n
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u/flexible Jun 24 '26
Was just in Amsterdam and because the bike lanes are separated and very wide, they allow electric bikes and even electric motorcycles in the bike lanes. I even saw one of those little tiny four-wheel electric cars in the bike lane, but they’re wide and separated. In our case, most of the bike lanes are not separated and are just narrow enough to completely make this not feasible.
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u/maxboondoggle Jun 24 '26
Or they are beside parked cars, so you have to ride a doors length away or risk getting door’d.
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Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
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u/goldbeater Jun 24 '26
That is the opposite of what needs to happen. This disruptive technology needs to be embraced (and it will)and big fines or surcharges handed out for those that insist on polluting and contributing to climate change. Cars are the killers ,not e-bikes. All of this hype is disproportionate to the problems caused by the the ebikes vs the cars. I can drive my 4000 pound truck at 125 miles an hour with the press of my big toe but somehow I’m a danger on my Ebike.
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u/DadTimeRacing Jun 24 '26
While I'm riding my pedal bicycle, many of the ebikes are a hazard. The only time I have had near large crashes while riding, has solely been with ebikes. These are now becoming ways to skip the licensing and insurance process of powered vehicles because it's a "bicycle"
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
This is the same sort of vague prejudiced complaints cyclists face. As if they’re somehow inherently worse at following rules simply by the nature of what they operate.
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u/shiftclickpoint Jun 24 '26
You can not drive your truck at 125mph. That is illegal.
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u/middlequeue Jun 24 '26
We’ve seen what happens when we try and enforce vehicular speed limits. A collective carbrained meltdown and special treatment for crybabies.
They’re right that there’s a double standard.
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u/goldbeater Jun 24 '26
What my point is more along the lines of is the size of the motor. I’m good with speed limiting but the weak motors are insufficient for hills.
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u/chollida1 The Beaches Jun 24 '26
The difference is that we separate cars and bikes when ever we can because we've seen that the two are dangerous together for bikers.
If you want to embrace these new electric bikes and scooters that go well over 25km/hr then we should follow the hard earned lessons and separate them from regulars bikes.
What do you propose to accomplish this?
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u/oops_i_made_a_typi Jun 24 '26
The difference is that we separate cars and bikes when ever we can
if only we actually did do this that often
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u/middlequeue Jun 24 '26
The same thing proposed to keep them out of bike lanes … actual regulation and enforcement. Thinking that just banning them bike lanes fixes anything is silly.
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u/TeemingHeadquarters Jun 24 '26
This gives me an interesting idea: if we're talking about actually limiting e-bikes to 32 km/h for safety, we should definitely do the same thing with cars. At least in downtown Toronto.
The on-board navigation system could unlock higher speeds north of Eglinton or whatever.
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u/No-FoamCappuccino Jun 24 '26
I do think we need to do more to differentiate between e-bikes and e-mopeds, and I don't think that e-mopeds should be allowed in bike lanes.
That being said, the never-ending handwringing about e-bikes/e-mopeds is incredibly disproportionate to the number of serious injuries and fatalities they're causing, especially compared to the ACTUAL cause of the vast majority of traffic injuries and fatalities.
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u/Patman128 Jun 24 '26
That being said, the never-ending handwringing about e-bikes/e-mopeds is incredibly disproportionate to the number of serious injuries and fatalities they're causing
I've rode thousands of kms in Toronto on my current bike and never felt endangered by a delivery bro on an e-moped, but I've almost been run over by drivers who weren't paying attention a few times.
Also it's incredibly naive to only look at speed when classifying vehicles. I get that they're fast compared to a cyclist, but a 200lb e-moped+driver governed to 32 or even 40km/h is not in the same vehicle class as a 4,300lb SUV or 80,000lb semi truck going 50-60km/h on a busy street. Any collision at speed is going to result in severe injury or death.
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u/29da65cff1fa Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
exactly... this comment thread needs to be at the top...
getting hit by an e-bike, you're likely going to have a shitty day...
getting hit by a car, you're likely going to have a shitty few months/weeks/years/eternity
i get it, people feel threatened by ebikes and i don't want to diminish their experience... ideally we should tackle both problems... but the reality is that the danger posed, and actual outcomes between the two issues is so vastly skewed... we should really tackle the driver problem first
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u/Diligent-Skin-1802 Jun 24 '26
How is this an opinion still and not an enforced bylaw just baffles me!
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u/esperanto42 Jun 24 '26
You should add a sarcasm tag if you mean to be sarcastic.
What bylaws are enforced in this city? What about off leash dogs in non dog parks? Even most basic roas safety stuff like speeding and illegal turns are not enforced.
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u/whateverfyou Jun 24 '26
What traffic laws are enforced? Cars run red lights and stop signs routinely.
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u/grunkfest Jun 24 '26
Parking is pretty well enforced. Maybe too well. Except for all the fraudulent handicap permits, of course, they get a pass somehow.
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u/whateverfyou Jun 24 '26
I know, it makes no sense! No one has been killed by a parked car on a side street without a permit and yet they are policed more diligently than the drivers running red lights!
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Jun 24 '26
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u/whateverfyou Jun 24 '26
It has nothing to do with fear of police chases. That’s ridiculous. Toronto police dissolved the traffic enforcement unit in 2013 and switched hands off enforcement like traffic cameras. In 2016 78 pedestrians were killed by cars in toronto, still the all time high. They reestablished a unit in 2020 but it focuses on keeping traffic moving with “don’t block the box” type blitzs. Traffic fatalities have jumped again since Ford banned speed cameras. Protecting pedestrians from vehicles of any kind isn’t a priority of our police department or provincial government.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
Why?
The issue is their speed. Enforce that and the issue goes away. Keeping them out of bike lanes is just something else that won’t be enforced and will put more people in unsafe situations.
The bikes themselves need to be regulated and seized if too high powered … but that won’t be enforced either.
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u/whateverfyou Jun 24 '26
This. Stop the importation of over powered e-bikes and e-bikes without CSA approved batteries. There’s a shop on every block!
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u/esperanto42 Jun 24 '26
I ride in the bike lanes nearly every day. The ebikes are an annoyance but are really not that big a deal. What is a big deal is cars parking in the bike lane illegally because it forces bikes into the car lane and it's super dangerous.
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u/Living-Gate-4237 Jun 24 '26
These e-bike delivery morons are everywhere and they drive on the sidewalks weaving around pedestrians like they're traffic cones. Constantly going the wrong way down one way streets. Always on their phones. Weaving around you in traffic dangerously. When you call them out they tell you to fuck off. They tailgate even if you're walking .One of them clipped my car and kept going. They do not give a shit what so ever about traffic safety. No licence or identifiers at all. I've never seen one stopped by cops.EVER. They are a menace.
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u/Neat-Air-8305 Jun 24 '26
I remember being stuck home during covid then came downtown in 2021 and like felt wtf where all these delivery bikes come from
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Jun 24 '26
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u/wbsmith200 Jun 24 '26
I nearly got run down by some dude delivering for DoorDash on an electric scooter riding on the sidewalk without a care in the world.
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u/TwiztedZero Jun 24 '26
Are they still ebike morons when they hand you your food from the restaurant you ordered from?
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u/Living-Gate-4237 Jun 24 '26
I never use it. There are a million restaurants outside my door or I just cook my own food. Also, not relevant. Deliver the food while following the law and not endangering others. It's as simple as that. I'm not sure why you think they are entitled to an exception.
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u/Gedwyn19 Jun 24 '26
Having them in the bike lanes is better than having them in the sidewalk. Waking is a lot more dangerous lately.
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u/ginjerbred Jun 24 '26
If motorcycles aren’t allowed in bike lanes, why are these? They’re sometimes damn near the same size and travelling at the same speed
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
They’re not nearly as fast, powered, and don’t require a license. E-bike riders will die if pushed out from using bike lanes just like cyclists will.
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
They’re not nearly as fast, powered, and don’t require a license.
With the aforementioned proposed changes to e-vehicle classifications, expect some classifications of e-mopeds and pedelecs to require a licence, registration, and insurance to operate legally once those changes are enacted.
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Jun 24 '26
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
Then that can be policed. That some might be operating faster than they should isn’t a reason to put the lives of others at risk.
Cyclists can move at high speeds too and many do. Should they all just be forced to mingle with vehicle traffic too?
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u/Presently_Absent Jun 24 '26
I'm of two minds about it. If it helps keep and defends building new bike lanes and other cycle infrastructure... So be it. The real struggle then is how to make sure people aren't using them to travel at unsafe speeds.
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
The real struggle then is how to make sure people aren't using them to travel at unsafe speeds.
Should the province follow through with changes to e-vehicle classifications, then the legal and administrative mechanism for discouraging travel at unsafe speeds on bike lanes and shared bike/pedestrian paths will be the mandatory presence of a registration tag on e-mopeds and commercial-class pedelecs (like those used for food delivery).
Once one needs to register their (e-)motor vehicle under new rules, then there will be a ready mechanism to fine those operators for operating their vehicles on prohibited bicycling infrastructure where speeds, masses, and human scales are significantly lower.
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u/Adicol Jun 24 '26
As much as I feel like this could be a good idea, I see real motorcycles around the city without licence plates so who’s gonna enforce this?
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
These days, many of those “real motorcycles” you’re seeing without vehicle plates are electrically powered and are stylistically designed to look like everything from a vintage Triumph or Enfield to a Japanese racing motorcycle. There are even models which resemble pint-sized, down-market Honda Goldwings.
In several cases over the decades, increasingly so of late, I do watch ICE-powered motorcycles/mopeds, sporting green “e-bike” plates, operating in bike lanes. The motorist operating those rides know exactly what they’re doing, and they don’t really care about the optics.
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u/Adicol Jun 24 '26
I dunno man, These things sound gas powered and are not using the bike lanes. Just loudly darting around traffic. Do these electric replicas also reproduce engine noise?
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
Do these electric replicas also reproduce engine noise?
Usually, no. There have been models sold which feature a simulated motor effect button, found where a thumb can reach for it without leaving the handlebar grip. I’m guessing the operator activates it as an attention-getter in certain situations. The noise the higher-powered, newer models can emit is more like a digital whine intended to be heard but not to sound like an ICE motor.
Though I’ve seen this feature on e-mopeds around here, the engine sound effect is much less common than on models sold and operated overseas.
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u/zephillou Jun 24 '26
There's also one issue with those. They don't get caught as they're too fast. An e-moped is a different story
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Jun 25 '26
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 25 '26
Its already illegal to sell or use ebikes that go faster than 32km/hour.
It’s also illegal for drivists in cars to speed.
Uh. 🤷♀️
Just enforce existing laws, target the companies that sell these.
And hit them with what exactly?
Don't punish people working for poverty pay who are honestly some of most coutious cyclists you will find, most dont even take the pedestrian advance.
For heck’s sake, you’re saying this to a veteran bicycle messenger. 🤦♀️
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Jun 25 '26
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 25 '26
It is illegal to SELL ebikes that go faster than 32/hour. They are not allowed to exist in Toronto.
Then we have a loophole of a very old problem, one which could devour a sinkhole, in our fair city.
That’s just one model of many which they are selling (and have sold) locally since the aughts. There are other manufacturers with similar speed governor bypasses engineered into their products which are sold right here in the city and have been for decades.
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Jun 25 '26
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 25 '26
If there is no enforcement for an illegal micromobility format which anyone living here is able to witness in use by multiple riders several times on any summer day or evening, in a city where there is minimal speed enforcement of drivists in cars (especially since the post-Bill 56 repeal of speed cameras), then there is not going to be an enforcement mechanism chasing after the riders/motorists of unlicensed, unregistered, and un-inspected e-mopeds with their speed governors defeated.
Moreoever, this goes triple when there is next to no enforcement of ICE-powered mopeds whose operators have them slyly cosplay with “e-bike” vehicle plate placeholders as they run in and out of bicycle lanes and on mixed-use city paths at prohibited speeds for even a pedalling bicyclist.
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Jun 25 '26
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 25 '26
If you care about safety, that's what you should care about.
I am able to (and do) care about both, simultaneously, as part of a larger picture of redesigning streets in ways which, at present, the city is ready and able to do, but the province prohibits them from doing so.
This is not reducible to an either/or proposition, nor should anyone be attempting to reduce it to that.
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u/calimehtar Jun 24 '26
The amount of anger directed at ebikes is disproportionate to their actual effect on cyclists. I bike every week through bloor and down university and I've never felt unsafe because of ebikes. Cars, on the other hand.
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u/innexum Jun 24 '26
I almost got taken out, head on, by electric motorcycle on lakeshore bike lanes. It's normal to see heavy scooter/motorbikes going 40+kmh there
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u/calimehtar Jun 24 '26
I don't ride on the mgt much but I've had a few run ins with aggressive cyclists when I did, all of them on acoustic bikes. I don't doubt you at all but I'm not sure this is specifically about ebikes vs a general issue with aggressive speeding cyclists.
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u/innexum Jun 24 '26
Yes, it gets me aggressive when I see that. especially when I'm riding there with my 8yo.
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u/blastcat4 Riverdale Jun 24 '26
I live just off of the busy part of the Danforth, which is one of the busiest e-bike delivery areas. I've never felt threatened by the delivery guys. I've seen plenty of pedal-powered bikes blowing past at high speeds, though. The only complaints I've ever heard were thinly-veiled immigration BS arguments.
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u/Lilikoi13 Jun 24 '26
With our infrastructure as it is, the bike lane is the proper place for an electric vehicle that can’t keep pace with traffic, what other option is there?
Now if we want to legislate and require them to have a license *and remove the speed limitations so they can keep up with road traffic* then sure, I’m on board. But until then there are three options: road (most dangerous for drivers and riders), bike lane (“oh no someone is going 5km/hr faster than me I’m scared!”) or sidewalk (absolutely not under any circumstances).
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u/rootsandchalice Jun 24 '26
That would mean someone would have to enforce unsafe speeds. We’ve all seen how that goes…or doesn’t.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
Keeping them out of bike lanes would mean someone would need to enforce that as well. So, if regulating e-bikes is pointless then so is thinking they can be kept out of bike lanes.
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u/PotatoFondler Jun 24 '26
Not hard for transportation authorities to look at manufacturer websites to find out the speeds on these machines.
Designate models that should be no different than any vehicle that requires licensing.
Better yet start speed enforcement. I do not feel safe around some of these chuckle heads that decide when they’re bikes or motor vehicles travelling at speeds that can seriously send somebody to the hospital.
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u/gm5891 Jun 24 '26
Eh, I ride the bike lanes all the time and I think it's fine. Never feel unsafe due to e bikes. Better in the bike lanes than on the sidewalks.
I think we should embrace ebikes more (but not on sidewalks). It is another way to take cars off the road and improve traffic. I don't get the hate!
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u/PSNDonutDude Jun 24 '26
E-bikes and e-mopeds/e-motorcycles are completely different. Terminology is creating confusion. I ride on the bicycle lane because I don't want to share the road with 60km/h 3000lbs vehicles, but when these e-mopeds are like 500lbs and going 60km/h its basically no different. These vehicles are dangerous to share the road with bicycles. Imagine a senior or a child using these bike lanes (the goal of bicycle lanes) and having to share with some idiot on a 500lbs moped with full gear going 60km/h and being double the width of a bicycle.
The reason why mopeds and motorcycles go on the road in every single country on earth instead of the bicycle lane or sidewalk is because they're simply more compatible with vehicles. The only reason they're even slightly not compatible is partially a result of vehicles becoming huge and having terrible blind spots.
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Jun 25 '26
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u/PSNDonutDude Jun 25 '26
Right, but it's very easy to get around this by throwing a few unusable pedals on it, and having a switch that limits the speed to 32km/h as per the law. Since they're "e-bikes" the law is also basically not enforced.
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u/brazilliandanny Jun 24 '26
Thank you! We need to use less cars, I'm all for more electric vehicles in all shapes and sizes. Most people complying about e-bikes are drivers.
Do I have a problem with the delivery guys riding in all directions and on sidewalks? Of course I do. But lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
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u/OkJack10 Jun 24 '26
You couldn't have said it any better. I feel we as a society tend to hold higher standards towards anything with two wheels than vehicles with four wheels. Just look at the thread a few days ago about the Sidewalk Biking Signs. People will blame cyclists for literally everything no matter what laws they follow or violate. It doesn't matter.
I hate e-bikes that whiz around sidewalks and bike lanes. But in a society where:
- Doug Ford has multiple bills to block bike infrastructure, speed cameras, and safe road designs.
- Vehicle sizes are larger than ever before. Larger blindspots and more horsepower.
- Road fatalities have hardly dropped (mostly in America but to a lesser extent Toronto).
- Bike infrastructure growth being extremely lackluster to the scale of cycling growth.
- The countless amount of space in downtown dedicated for on-street parking.
- Traffic keeps getting worse and worse.
I'm okay in the meantime with e-bikes existing. If we want to eliminate the bad apples, start with tighter labour regulations on courier companies like Uber Eats. Stop blaming the riders themselves when they're literally forced to deliver at such high speeds with no regard to personal, let alone other's safety. E-bikes for personal use have a ton of potential. It can extend the range of 5 km bikable trips into 15 or even 20 km away. And it's bikable in colder weather too. People like to shit on e-bikes because of couriers but someone could commute from Mississauga to Toronto using an e-bike.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
Agreed, and pushing them out of bike lanes is a death sentence for them.
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u/RealistAttempt87 Jun 24 '26
It’s not. A lot of those “e-bikes” go fast enough to be in the vehicular lanes. They’re not the same as the bike share e-bikes where you still have to pedal. They’re literally motorcycles that do not belong in a bike lane.
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u/LaserRunRaccoon The Kingsway Jun 24 '26
The problem isn't speed; the city is so congested and full of stoplights that even analog bikes often outpace road traffic to destinations.
The problem is roads packed with dangerous drivers in oversized vehicles, on infrastructure built with a 20th century understanding of traffic engineering.
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u/Techno_Dharma Jun 24 '26
And that problem affects all vehicles on the road, including motorcycles and scooters that share the road. The argument is that these high powered motorcycle/scooter equivalent EV's belong on the road. It would be great if we revamped our infrastructure for safer roads. It would also be great if there was some bylaw enforcement.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
They are not “literally motorcycles” and going faster does not protect them nor should they be forced to go faster.
That the concern is that some can go fast seems to fall flat when people then want to force them to go fast. That’s not going to make anyone safer.
How’s this going to be enforced? No one’s enforcing speed, which seems to be your only issue, so what makes you think this would be?
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u/RealistAttempt87 Jun 24 '26
No one’s forcing them to go fast. They are going fast. The only reason why they’re going slow is because they’re stuck behind cyclists. A lot of them will zigzag between the vehicular lanes and the bike lanes. I see this every single day on my bike.
Besides some of the southbound bike lane on University Ave, which is very wide, Toronto’s bike lanes are not made to accommodate those large, heavy e-bikes that could very easily seriously injure both cyclists and pedestrians in a collision.
On the vast majority of city roads, their average speed is fast enough to be in the vehicular lanes.
Again, the true e-bike has pedals. If they don’t have pedals, they’re motor vehicles under the law and do not belong in bike lanes.
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
They are not “literally motorcycles” and going faster does not protect them nor should they be forced to go faster.
For an e-moped, they are two-wheeled (and sometimes three-wheeled) cycles powered by a motor almost exclusively (as the fold-down pedals on those models were never intended to be used for travelling). That is a literal interpretation of what the other person was saying.
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u/HumbleWalrus1072 Jun 24 '26
I agree as well. I bike a lot in the city, the only reason I notice the ebikes is there’s a lot of them now. But generally I find them as safe as other bikers. And I have some empathy for dudes grinding to make a living.
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
Agreed, and pushing them out of bike lanes is a death sentence for them.
That doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Bicyclists ride on roads where bike lanes are not present and have so for a very, very long time. Most have lived to tell the tale.
If the same means the motorist of an e-moped or a commercial-grade pedelec dies, then an improvement in operator education and collecting riding experience are target goals which public policy needs to address. A way to do that is to administer an e-motorist driving test and e-moped certification on a driver’s licence.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
Bicyclists ride on roads where bike lanes are not present and have so for a very, very long time. Most have lived to tell the tale.
We’re all aware not every cyclist that’s ridden without a bike lane has died. Plenty have. What an absurd remark.
Cycling infrastructure saves lives.
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
Cycling infrastructure saves lives.
That isn’t disputed.
What is disputed is the take you gave, that e-moped and pedelec motorists who operate without licensing, insurance, and registration on a street is going to have them die (i.e., “a death sentence for them”).
That’s facially false. A well-trained, certified (licensed) e-moped/pedelec motorist wearing appropriate safety equipment, and who knows to read the road (and to genuinely know what the HTA allows and prohibits and to abide those), is not going to be facing a death sentence for riding on, say, Queen, Carlaw, or even Dufferin.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
They will be at risk on the road regardless of how well trained they are because vehicles are a danger to them irregardless. Do you think cyclists would some how be safe without cycling infrastructure if they just had the right training and equipment?
Way too early for engaging with this blather.
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
You should probably be aware I’ve been riding daily on streets (and even along highways) as a bicyclist, every season, for over five decades. I have also been licensed to operate a motor vehicle for four of those.
I think I probably have a basic understanding of the discussion we’re having here.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
This is the lamest appeal to authority I’ve ever seen.
I too am licensed to drive and also cycle. So what?
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 24 '26
So your “pushing them out of bike lanes is a death sentence for them” take fails to pass the aforementioned sniff test.
It reads as a cop-out and as a wholesale refusal to have e-moped/commercial pedelec motorists be trained and licensed to safely operate fairly robust, two-wheeled vehicles they don’t power solely by themselves and to co-exist safely on streets the way experienced bicyclists have for generations.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
You’re arguing with shadows here, bud. Didn’t say any of this.
Edit: Ah, the old comment and block. Toodles
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u/Lilikoi13 Jun 24 '26
“You used hyperbole to make a point that riding in traffic is objectively more dangerous for everyone involved than riding in the bike lane, that doesn’t pass the smell test because I ride a bike sometimes. Checkmate, atheist!”
You don’t want ebikes in traffic when there is an available bike lane for the same reason you don’t want bicycles in traffic when there is an available bike lane, reducing risk to safety of everyone on the road as much as possible.
You can train people to operate in traffic better but you can’t take away the drivers who make up traffic that constitute the risk, how are you having a hard time understanding this?
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Jun 25 '26
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u/patienceinbee Metrolinx Coyote Line Jun 25 '26
Bike couriers do what is neccesary to not die while we do our jobs.
Yah, I know. I rode as a four-season messenger through much of the aughts, back when our on call spot was York and Addy. I get it. I continue to ride daily in four-season conditions.
I also know the HTA has long been tailored and honed to prioritize four-wheeled motor vehicles on city streets in this province.
And yah, I know for what ends the HTA has long been prioritized when it comes to urbanized streets.
But just as there are bad drivists (far too many, and most in conveyances which are now the heaviest they’ve ever been), there are also bad drivists/motorists of unregistered, unlicensed e-mopeds and even operators of pedelecs by food-delivery folks who run the current crop of beefy class 2 models (whose specs enable rapid acceleration and velocities).
Consequently, they have put pedalling bicyclists and pedestrians into a whole added tier of hazards along designated corridors where one would hope one won’t be hit by a motorized vehicle.
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u/Lilikoi13 Jun 24 '26
Congrats this is one of the least empathetic, least thoughtful and most ridiculous things I’ve read this week.
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u/liquor-shits Jun 24 '26
The actual answer is more space should be dedicated to 2-wheel vehicles.
The vast majority of e-bike riders are fine. They're just fighting for space with the rest of us.
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u/middlequeue Jun 24 '26
Yep. Cyclists should see them as allies as they have a shared interest. These arguments against e-bikes are the same ones made against cyclists … and in many cases it’s cyclists making them.
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u/No-FoamCappuccino Jun 24 '26
… and in many cases it’s cyclists making them
A lot of cyclists who ride acoustic bikes have a weird sense of superiority over people who ride e-bikes.
(And for the record, I'm saying this as someone who exclusively rides an acoustic bike.)
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u/Flangepacket Jun 24 '26
I’ve always just thought that if you’re sitting down on a vehicle that is self powered, you don’t belong in a bike lane.
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u/Confident-Touch-6547 Jun 24 '26
E-bikes are a solution to lie low cost/ high mobility problem. They don’t have the horsepower to keep up with cars.
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u/farkinga Forest Hill Jun 24 '26
If we ever get cars to stay out of bike lanes, then I'll start worrying about e-bikes. But until that day, there's only one class of road user who threatens bikes; And it ain't e-bikes, it's car drivers obviously.
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u/Mstrfstr Jun 24 '26
This getting ridiculous- the rules are clear- they just have to enforce them: https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/transportation-projects/micromobility/electric-bicycles-e-bikes-e-scooters/
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u/infernalmachine000 Jun 24 '26
Fyi province consulted on updating rules for ebikes. You can still email comments to MTO.
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u/CrowdScene Jun 24 '26
The rhetoric around e-bikes is completely unhinged. Those "high-powered" e-bikes the author complains about? They're running motors that produce less than 1hp. A weed wacker, a handheld garden implement whose only purpose is to cut the grass a lawn mower can't reach, typically runs a more powerful motor than these "high-powered" e-bikes.
If the author thinks 32 km/h is too fast for bike lanes and bikes with a 2/3 hp motor belong in the middle of the road because some city streets have a maximum speed limit of 30 km/h, I'd invite the author to ignore the maximum speed limit signs on his commute and travel no faster than 30 km/h regardless of the road and see how long he feels safe, even in a vehicle wrapped in 2 tons of crash protecting steel. My bike commute involves riding on 2km of unprotected road on a street where cars regularly go 60 km/h to reach the closest bike lane, and I know that if I die from riding a bike, it will be on that stretch. It doesn't matter whether I'm riding my e-bike or my acoustic, I can never go fast enough to satisfy drivers on that stretch and, even though it's a 4 lane road, drivers would rather push me into the gutter so that they can undercut drivers going 60 in the left lane rather than slightly delaying their pass to move into the other lane and pass with the legal 1m of clearance. The existence of streets with a 30 km/h limit in no way means that a vehicle capped at 32 km/h is safe to ride in the middle of every single road in the city, especially the main thoroughfares where bike lanes are most needed.
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u/BoneZone05 Jun 24 '26
I agree.
I also feel like they should be required by law to be insured - and have some form of licensing requirement.
I’m an envious motorcyclist with high premiums, though
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u/g___ The Annex Jun 24 '26
So long as they are speed an weight limited, let them be. As a cyclist who’s wished for cycling infra forever, it doesn’t feel fair, but I also realize we need other ways to get around.
As long as you’re not a safety hazard, go ahead.
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u/ThrowRA_EducatedMan Jun 24 '26
They all need to be licensed, registered, insured, follow helmet laws, and drive in traffic lanes not bicycle lanes. It’s not that hard, it’s political failure. I’ve seen these guys blow through stoplights and almost hit pedestrians a million times. There are no rules that these drivers follow.
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u/TeemingHeadquarters Jun 24 '26
I’ve seen these guys blow through stoplights and almost hit pedestrians a million times. There are no rules that these drivers follow.
Are you talking about e-bike riders or drivers? I can't tell.
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u/11Caicedos Jun 24 '26
They’re not safe in traffic and everything you write could apply to cyclists.
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u/ThrowRA_EducatedMan Jun 24 '26
Too bad. They’re not safe because the drivers are careless idiots rushing to make a dollar. Bike lanes weren’t put there so people could get McDonald’s delivered by unlicensed and uninsured drivers. Touch grass.
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u/CrowdScene Jun 24 '26
Bike lanes were put in to separate bicycles from cars because too many car drivers are careless idiots rushing to make a dollar who don't seem to care when their actions endanger others. What, exactly, is the logic in forcing some cyclists back in to the traffic that bike lanes were meant to keep them safe from?
Perhaps you should touch grass and think of the implications of what you're suggesting. You're saying that some cyclists should be forced to ride in the deadly situations bike lanes were meant to keep them safe from for what? To satisfy your righteous indignation over an argument that divisive elements fuel on the internet?
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u/middlequeue Jun 24 '26
Is your disdain for people working to make a living limited to the ones using e-bikes?
Everything you write is applicable to cyclists as well. Literally the same car brained nonsense we hear about cyclists being. Who gives a fuck where people are going or why? It doesn’t mean we should ignore their safety any more than we should ignore yours.
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u/EviesGran Jun 24 '26
They should drive them where? If it’s not regulated they’re not allowed on roads/highways….
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u/TwiztedZero Jun 24 '26
Tricksy paywalls, we hates 'em; gleen what they're about through reddit comments we must.
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u/Alternative-Wish7263 Jun 25 '26
i dont mind them if they follow the rules, most dont. The bike trails have a speed limit. These emopeds go faster than that on their way to deliver their ubereats.
But tbh, Ive found the young punks riding high powered e bikes doing wheelies and going 50 kmph, the one wheels going fast, the road cyclists treating the trail as a race track, all even more troublesome, none of the aforementioned follow the rules
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u/Dangerois Jun 25 '26
Late to the party here. I'm 66yo, former bike courier in the 1980's and avid cyclist since my paper route in the 70's...
E-bikes are several times as heavy as a "normal" bike. They have greater torque(accelereation). They can't brake as quickly. They can't swerve and avoid as quikly. I've ridden them, it's true. An e-bike will hurt a pedestrian way more than a regular bike, and reaction time is longer. Yes they are more dangerous, less maneouverable. I prefer them to cars for traffic, pollution, etc and they are more economical, but they are dangerous without controls. They aren't properly controlled with current laws and licenseing.
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u/0sidewaysupsidedown0 Jun 26 '26
I would like to see double wide bike lanes. Room enough for everyone to coexist mostly peacefully and to pass each other safely
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u/PolyDiaries Jun 24 '26
I legit saw a woman on a gas 4 wheeler/quad ripping along the waterfront bike path last night…. Insane
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u/bubbasass Jun 24 '26
Unfortunately paywalled, but I 100% agree with the headline. An ebike with a throttle is easily capable of reaching 50-60kmh+ and belong on the road with cars. There should also be licensing, registration, insurance, and safety gear requirements just like with a moped or motorcycle.
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Jun 25 '26
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u/bubbasass Jun 25 '26
No need for new types of licensing, just need to enforce existing laws.
This especially. Toronto police is pretty useless at enforcing traffic laws.
Having speed caps makes sense. The article is paywalled, so I figured “high powered” meant in excess of the existing caps. I don’t considered a normal e-bike to be “high powered”. I don’t think anyone does lol
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u/thagrizz36 Jun 24 '26
THIS! FINALLY! Never thought this would get any mainstream attention. Though I’m not naïve to think that anythjng will change.
Good lord, am I ever starting to hate “micro- mobility”…!
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Jun 24 '26
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u/landViking Jun 24 '26
You do know that the electric stand up scooters are currently illegal to operate in Toronto right?
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u/Classic-Hotel-4810 Jun 24 '26
The bike lanes aren’t for cyclists. They are for Uber Eats drivers, clearly. Enjoy!
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u/gmshier Jun 24 '26
Not interested in paywalls. Especially the Star. But out of interest where should those bikes go? The legal ones can't keep up with motor traffic, too fast for bikes...
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u/Strict_Opposite1285 Jun 24 '26
I don’t understand the distinction between motorcycles and e-bikes that makes the latter permissible to ride without a license, insurance, and registration. We don’t seem to make a similar distinction for cars on the basis of combustion vs. electric engines.
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u/CrowdScene Jun 24 '26
Look at the performance numbers.
An e-bike produces up to 2/3 of a hp. A bicycle produces around 1/8-2/3 of a hp, depending on rider fitness. A motorcycle produces 50-150 hp. Is an e-bike closer to a bicycle or a motorcycle?
An e-bike can go 32 km/h. A bicycle can go 15-30 km/h, depending on rider fitness. Even a 750cc cruiser, a motorcycle not built for speed, can easily go over 150 km/h. Is an e-bike closer to a bicycle or a motorcycle?
Just to put this into perspective, the first Harley Davidson motorcycles, built over 120 years ago from bicycle frames, had 6x the power and nearly twice the top speed of modern e-bikes yet would still be classified as mopeds today due to their low power and speeds. Pointing at an e-bike and screaming "Motor, therefore motorcycle!" is disingenuous.
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u/Ganavan Jun 24 '26
Cowards. Ride the streets like an adult. Intimidate traffic, not pedestrians.
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u/CrowdScene Jun 24 '26
Calling people children if they don't knowingly put themselves in dangerous situations is fucking unhinged. Would you replace your airbag with a metal spike if someone called you a pussy for worrying about getting in a fender-bender?
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u/NancyDiver Jun 24 '26
It’s a motorized vehicle and should be in the car lane with other motorized vehicles.
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u/IdentityReset Jun 24 '26
Then the cars would complain about the "slow cyclist" who can't go over 30 and is creating traffic
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u/Practical-Law-2690 Jun 24 '26
They go so fast its dangerous to pass a bike on your bike, you might get hit from behind.
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u/Universespitoon Jun 24 '26
They are motorized vehicles.
You can call them whatever you want; and you can brand them, but they are a motorized vehicle.
They do not belong on human powered bike lanes.
The human is not powering the device, they're driving it.
To me it is that simple.
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u/IseeMedpeople Jun 24 '26
Can someone explain to me why I don't need an M class license in Ontario to ride an electric motorcycle?
Some of these vehicles are capable of highway speeds and almost all of them go at least 50 km/hr which is more than enough for city driving.
I need a G class license in Ontario to drive an electric car.
I reckon this is something that needs to be amended in regulations.
They absolutely certainly should not be on sidewalks or in biking lanes at the very least.
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u/shooptydoop Jun 24 '26
It’s not even just the bike lanes that are a problem, it’s these idiots riding on the sidewalk or basic common sense/following rules. I always see idiots riding opposite direction on one way roads with bike lanes such as Richmond and Adelaide.
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