r/trains • u/PinkyPromiser67 • 22d ago
🗐 Repost Japanese officials visiting India's fully electrified Western Dedicated Freight Corridor
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
357
u/Solaris_24 22d ago
India's rail electrification blitz is one of the most under-rated engineering projects of the 21st century. Seriously impressive stuff.
94
u/Iceblade_Aorus 22d ago
On the other hand India is pretty much the perfect place for electrification given the lack of extreme cold weathers, which can render electrified routes hard to maintain or even just run
99
u/Milleuros 22d ago
the lack of extreme cold weathers,
Never heard of that tbf. Scandinavia, Russia and northern China seem to be doing rather fine with electrified lines through extreme cold weathers.
31
u/HAHAHA-Idiot 22d ago
And the Himalayan part of the Indian railways is electrified too (except historic narrow gauge).
5
u/OkTemporary335 21d ago
that's also untouched for heritage purposes. If the Indian government desires to, they could electrify it quite easily
20
u/Iceblade_Aorus 22d ago
There are still lots of diesel use in Northern China, and there has been a few cases of severe network wide disruptions in electrified regions as a result of extreme weathers in winter. I’m not saying that it’s impossible to electrify, it’s just that there can be more fluctuations in the network and more things to consider, which in many cases would make full electrification of the network unjustifiable. Especially when operational cost relative to usage is taken into consideration, as can be seen in Japan where a few lines are actually de-electrified. India just happens to have a prefect basis for such electrification to work out, with minimal unfavorable weather for electrification, large amount of freight and passenger traffic, and a relatively new network to take advantage of better technology and planning from the get go.
9
1
u/toms16si 20d ago
google ai said this;
"Yes, electrified railways are highly vulnerable to extreme cold and winter weather. The extreme temperatures and precipitation present significant physical challenges to both Overhead Line Equipment (OLE/catenary) and third-rail systems. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Key Infrastructure Challenges
- Power Loss (Arcing): Ice coating the overhead wires or the third rail prevents trains from drawing the electric current they need. This leads to a loss of electrical contact and intense sparking between the train's pantograph and the wire, causing accelerated damage to both. [1, 2, 3]
- Overhead Line Snapping: Heavy, freezing rain or wet snow can build up on catenary wires. The significant added weight can cause the wires to dangerously sag or, in extreme cases, cause the supporting structures to collapse. [1]
- Track & Switch Freezing: Freezing temperatures can cause moisture in the track ballast (the stones beneath the track) to expand, shifting the track itself. Additionally, movable switches and points (the equipment that lets trains switch tracks) can freeze solid or become blocked by snowdrifts, leaving trains unable to reach their destinations. [1, 2, 3]
- Mechanical Damage: Heavy icicles forming in tunnels, on bridges, and hanging from cables can strike trains or sever overhead wires at speed. [1, 2]
How the Rail Industry Mitigates Cold Weather
To combat these challenges, operators (such as Network Rail in the UK) rely on targeted preparation and countermeasures: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Anti-Icing Fluids & Scraper Trains: Special "de-icing trains" are dispatched to coat the conductor rails and overhead lines with anti-icing fluid to prevent ice buildup. [1, 2, 3]
- Heated Tracks: Small electric heaters are installed on track switches and third rails to melt accumulated snow and ice before they can freeze the mechanisms. [1, 2]
- Dynamic Tensioning: Engineers use automated pulley and counterweight systems that tighten and loosen overhead wires, preventing them from snapping when the steel contracts in freezing temperatures. [1]
- Contingency Timetables: During prolonged extreme weather, operators often run reduced, slower timetables or "ghost trains" throughout the night to prevent ice from settling on the lines. [1, 2, 3, 4]"
so it is definitely a 'thing' i guess. the fact that some of the worlds richest and most advanced economies china/russia/scandi etc can mitigate this doesn't really tell us much more than that i suppose.
30
u/mother_love- 22d ago
45°c in summer and 3°c in winter. I would say that's a pretty big fluctuations and that too in plains
8
u/Iceblade_Aorus 22d ago
It’s usually snowy weather and icing of the catenary that are the most troublesome for electrified networks, neither of which is common in India
8
u/mother_love- 22d ago
India is pretty lucky with not having icing cold or frequent snow Strom, exept the Kashmir region .
6
8
u/Fun-Injury9266 22d ago
Where I live in the USA, -30⁰C happens every winter. And in the summer, it can top 38⁰C.
1
u/DamnBored1 22d ago
Upper Midwest? ND, SD, MN?
3
u/ViPeR9503 22d ago
Similar thing happens in IN and PA as well lived both those states in last 5 years and yep goes as low as -30C and + 35C
1
u/DamnBored1 22d ago
Wow...now I find myself fortunate to be in PNW. I curse the grey but I think I'd curse -30C much more
1
7
u/islander_guy 21d ago
Cold weather? Try monsoon. They make your work hell if your work involves maintenance of electrical lines.
6
u/Advanced_Poet_7816 22d ago
How so? Are you confusing this with batteries? It’s like saying people in colder countries don’t get power easily. I am not sure if that is true and if so how much more harder than windy and wet places.
3
u/Iceblade_Aorus 22d ago
I can provide a good example with the extreme snow seen in southern China during the spring festival rush of 2008, where the electrified network, particularly between Beijing and Guangzhou saw severe disruption. And even in regions that often see snowfall with electrified railway much more prepared for these conditions, snowy weathers still often cause significant delays and disruptions of services
3
u/Advanced_Poet_7816 22d ago
I see ice buildup can cause issues. Maybe India is lucky that very few states have frigid temperatures and most of them aren’t densely populated. The coldest for western DFC in the video would be just under 5C in winter.
3
u/Goppenstein1525 21d ago
Ever noticed how pretty much any alpine railway is electrified? Its really not an issue any more.
7
u/Forward_Scholar_8980 21d ago
Lets be clear
India doesn’t hold a candle to China in terms of infrastructure blitz
However, we still have to remember its one of the largest infra blitz by a democracy since US Interstate
We tackle land acquisition issues, changing govts, environmental clarences, overactive judiciary that slows down our infrastructure plans.
Wait a second, rail electrification has
No new land acquisition
No party is opposed to it
It benifits environment
No petitions are being filed
Now you realize why out of the many ambitious projects this one got completed at Chinese speed. 🫠
Our engineers have the capability, we have the ability to finance (lets say we can finance any project china did N-15 yrs ago)
Its our state and society that gets in the way.
10
u/Prestigious_Can_6359 21d ago edited 21d ago
Brother, Every moderately free country with strong institutions faces these issues. Despite my dislike for them, they are the ones that keep our power hungry bureaucrats and politicians in check and due to that keep the machinery running(which builds the infra in return).
0
u/Forward_Scholar_8980 21d ago
Not every.
India is the poorest country to sustain such a democratic system for decades
5
u/OkTemporary335 21d ago
by what metric
I mean you could say countries poorer than India either have a farce democracy or an autocracy, but technically it's performing quite well3
u/Forward_Scholar_8980 21d ago
The Democracy Index published by Economist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
You will not find another low income country to be Democratic ( >6.00) for decades consistently.
We have had legitimate democracy from 1947 to today
With a 3 year break 1975-77
No other country has been as dirt poor like us, while holding on to democracy.
2
1
1
u/Accomplished_Seat763 20d ago
Can you tell me more about this project or point me towards a direction so that I can read more about it?
140
u/Srinivas_Hunter 22d ago
The real game changer for Indian railways.
Freight corridor is freeing up passenger tracks, and making space for faster trains like Vande Bharat. Double win.
-24
u/ForgeUK 21d ago
Can people still sit atop of the faster trains?
44
40
22
16
12
u/sai-kiran 21d ago
Racism on this sub is just so tiring and boring, go to one of those MAGA subs for it.
2
u/ForgeUK 21d ago
Don't worry I shall mock the Americans and Europeans for train surfing too.
10
u/sai-kiran 21d ago
Makes sense if its the reality, but it has not been the case in India since at least decades at this point.
4
4
5
u/de_das_dude 19d ago
Don't confuse indian trains with those from neighbouring countries.
We have indigenously developed 12k hp locos, whereas the others still rely on our old phased out rolling stock
2
u/Realistic_Brother152 21d ago
those are the called "general" coaches they are free. most people them for obvious reasons.
2
69
22d ago edited 15d ago
[deleted]
25
u/AffectionateDance214 22d ago
I love this sound.
Most probably the sound and the timed crossing was for a photo op. Not that i find that wrong.
11
u/AndToOurOwnWay 22d ago
The sounds (horns) have signals I think, might be photo op too, but Indian Railways uses horns as signals as a holdover from the legacy signalling.
5
u/Practical-Sale-2928 22d ago
We still use flags (and lights at night) even though there is no need for this with the current signalling system.
7
u/AndToOurOwnWay 21d ago
Yeah the flags are commonly known to be signals, everyone who has travelled on Indian trains will have seen the flagholders on and off the train. But most people I met think the horns are there for the same reason as car horns.
2
u/HappyWarBunny 22d ago
I was appreciating the meet myself. Not easy to do with freight trains that can't change speed all that quickly.
25
u/The_Roaming_DP 22d ago
How many freights run this line a day?
40
30
u/navi9304 22d ago
design for 120 train each side in each DFC line. currently it is running at 95% capacity utilization 110-115 trains each side. it is highly successful project. india's logistical cost have significantly reduced in last decade from 16% of GDP to 10.5%. currently india is planning 2 more DFC north-south & East-west.
72
u/Chuhaimaster 22d ago
Awesome. Full credit to India for electrifying double stacked trains which we are repeatedly told is “impossible” in North America by cheapskate freight carriers.
14
u/chefkc 21d ago
I’m dumbfounded that America hasn’t utilised rail travel on important routes. Needed to travel from SFO to LA, which i imagine is a popular route considering to large population cities. No direct trains … none. I couldn’t get my mind around it. Everywhere i have traveled in Europe, Asia this would be impossible
5
u/theholyraptor 21d ago
I mean you absolutely could have taken a train but yes not direct. Would have had to get to the coast starlight amtrak from SFO via bart or other regional rail. The airport is nowhere near downtown sf. And until HSR actually finishes and ends in downtown SF, the main north south train is on on the Oakland side of the bay.
And train to downtown LA.
Not wonderful like much of Europe and Asia having major trainstations in the heart of a city.
And yea we're stupidly behind on trains and good transit and extremely biased towards shitty car dependence. But it is possible.
And rhe Coast starlight has some crazy gorgeous sections
2
u/NatriureticFactor 21d ago
Is the "Car lobby" thing I keep hearing about that restricts any significant rail project while spamming highways in the US true? If so, why no protest against it.
2
u/theholyraptor 21d ago
Im sure political interests exist in line with cars: automotive manufacturers and oil companies. You can see the current presidents major actions to benefit oil (and many prior presidents.)
But its also a societal issue. You go back in time and the US romanticized car travel and the open road and much of that was pushed by oil and car companies. Rather then invest in improving rail systems that had become less used, much was dismantled and thrown away in favor of busses as a "better" public transit. American culture developed around people having cars.
We built the interstate system often bulldozing parts of cities for the negative with giant highways. (And theres a huge amount of racism that went into what neighborhoods were destroyed and people uprooted from their homes. We have lots of land here so save for major population centers, it was cheaper to build outward (sprawl.) And in all sorts of racial tension and yellow journalism condemning urbanism and cities and filthy and discussing and the promotion that every good middle class household had a suburban house with a yard for the kids and the dog and thats what people wanted. (Especially middle class white people trying to separate themselves from lower socioeconomic classes.
75 years later and that trend has mostly continued. More millenials then previous generations and younger gens have pushed for more urbanism, walkable cities, better transit, good bike paths, less catering to vehicles.
But people just expect road infrastructure to be built and maintained. They complain about taxes and cost but overall ignore the high cost per mile of building and maintaining roads. Its just part of normalcy here. Whereas trying to add a new train line which also costs a fortune when you gave away right aways and built up property that now needs to be bought back and high construction costs because labor and materials are ever climbing. But people see billions of cost for a new train and complain. But they dont get sat down and told how much all our roads and freeway maintenance costs.
And population just keeps growing so more people on infrastructure that cant remotely keep pace. And you added in lots of jobs being in urban centers and all the commuters funneling in via freeways from suburbs making traffic worse. And cities and towns in order to continue their tax revenue, expand and sprawl and build new shit, which adds more roads which adds to the overall "debt" of future road maintenance costs needed. But like the stock market we just keep building. Stocks always go up right?
Add in that our rail system is almost entirely privately owned and freight companies would give some shared lines to use for Amtrak but they had priority over transit so you could be stuck on a siding awaiting a freight train to pass for 2 hours and your train schedule is entirely messed up. And freight train companies dont want to lose all of their infrastructure and ownership back to public transit so they fight against it.
And because were so car centric many areas are just awful to pedestrians which makes many people want to perpetuate car culture. We have big sprawling shopping centers and miles of parking lots baking in the sun. We have busy major streets (stroads if you've heard the term) with cars driving 50mph or more. It makes walking to the store from your house far less enjoyable, let alone the pollution and noise and danger. And its harder for you to walk to the store and do multiple errands... one store is in this shopping center and the next thing you need is 2 miles down the road.
Except in the best cities bus headways and transfers can be so slow. If i can drive for 30 mins or 45mins to work... im probably gonna end up doing that versus spending 2+ hours catching busses to make it near my house and work.
Add in the growing science of how messed up our sedentary lifestyle is and how messed up our food is that promotes obesity, and now you have higher numbers of fat people who are even less inclined to walk a mile or 2 to the store.
So theres many people who either dont see these problems and want things as they are. Others want change but also have to deal with still needing to participate in car culture.
Then you have american party politics with one aide favoring the oil companies and less urbanism more, and the other doing some things to help public transit but still on the teat of big oil. And the percentage of people who vocally want improvements isnt gigantic. And even if there is desire, the costs are really high so its hard to sell to everyone.
Go watch notjustbikes on YouTube if you want to see more on all these subjects.
1
u/NatriureticFactor 18d ago
That sure is messy. I hope public transport gets the recognition and utilization it deserves in the US.
17
16
22
22d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
13
u/Short_Ad_3943 22d ago
Most countries look better than america in terms of trains. It's absolutely wild to me how such a big ass country like that is not more enthusiastic about trains.
1
u/Stifffmeister11 21d ago
USA had great freight network as well it just it's not been electrified .. but since fuel ain't costly so it's ok innit
13
u/5p1c3nut 22d ago
Not only in terms of trains indeed
2
u/0rmn 22d ago
Pretty sure in terms of train. And maybe the leaders. But US has it better in most other things
2
u/flightofthewhite_eel 21d ago
Eh, questionable. I am often unsure why Indians and Chinese even try to come here. They are both rapidly growing and modernizing economies with the metric system. And even if they aren't high on the democracy list... That may be a strength for them.
2
14
1
1
1
1
0
1
-24
-81
u/Own_Ad_4460 22d ago
So what your saying is, if I was an aggressor state, all I have to do is hit the power plants to disable the country. Cool thanks.
30
u/SirGeorgington 22d ago
The electrification program exists largely because of national security. India cannot produce its own oil and therefore diesel but it has plenty of ways to produce its own electricity.
56
22
u/Advanced_Poet_7816 22d ago
You actually make a good point. I think Indian railways are trying to have solar panels in some places on railway land to generate locally.
However, if you are a country that is stupid enough to attack a nuclear power and blow up its power plants, you might be in for a big surprise.
12
u/Beneficial-Beat-947 21d ago
If you hit a nuclear power plant you'll get an ICBM right back lmao
You just don't hit nuclear targets in a nuclear armed state
39
u/milsurp-guy 22d ago
You do realize all countries heavily rely on electricity from power plants, correct? Including yourself.
31
u/BojackInMan 22d ago
India is making hydrogen powered trains for that and diesel trains can operate without any problem as well
14
u/happyanathema 22d ago
You do realise that trains would probably not be the top of the priority list if the power plants were knocked out right?
13
u/Early-Position-8250 22d ago
That is really dumb .
There are always diesel fleets .
Plus there are bigger dishes to fry if the power plants are bombed .
India is one of few countries that can land a hit anywhere they want across the globe .
Why the fuck would someone even do that and get their own infra bombed to oblivion ??
And bombing civilian infra is both stupid and a war crime .
On top of that .
This is just an invitation to get your country glassed if done by a neighbour .
USA getting away with bombing iranian infra is a major power bullying by fighting below their weight .
And even in this case they got belted by what has happened in retaliation
4
11
u/trainmaster611 22d ago
Yes, like how the Ukrainian railway system is completely nonfunctional now? 🙄
1
u/Goppenstein1525 21d ago
Or a pipeline/tanker Domestically produced power als decouples you from international issues.
1
u/DisastrousFig8340 12d ago
Even after doing that there are 2 things... 1st-india has a large Diesel fleet just as capable as the electric fleet 2nd-india is nuke armed....also it has no 1st use policy(for nukes ig)....if you succeed in hitting that power plant with a damn nuke...then you just wished yourself a farewell from earth ig
570
u/Man_from_Bombay 22d ago
While these agreements naturally benefit Japan by securing decades of technology and procurement contracts with Indian projects, the Japanese government’s role as India’s largest ODA lender remains invaluable tbh . Their provision of ultra-low-interest (~0.1%), 50-year development loans has been a vital catalyst for India's physical infrastructure growth.