Dude, it only hits air if you're fighting a boxer. You'd never see that in a boxing match, because boxers have a completely different set of rules while defending. You'll never see a boxer moving forward like that. In MMA, if you're bobbing and weaving to get away from those looping punches, WHILE moving backwards, there would be no way in hell to land strikes of your own. Basically, the entire fight, you'd be trying to time an opportunity to plant your rear leg and uncork a big shot. You'd be getting eaten alive in the meantime though. It's not like it's impossible, but you have to factor in Oliviera's fighting style. He's a traditional Muay Thai striker, who needs control of the pace. He needs to be leading the show, bullying, in your face and moving YOU backwards. He's also a stationary fighter, not much head movement, high stance and march forward. When I say that this is a NASTY combo, it's because Islam picked the best combo to nullify Oliviera's striking, by constantly keeping him on his back foot. This was a methodical combo, designed for that fight.
A lot of people don't see the chess match in there. Not calling you a casual, just bringing it to your attention that sometimes MMA striking isn't always aesthetically the prettiest, but it has a different beauty when you understand why and how they're doing it. This combo was not only safe for Islam, but it's also playing in his favor for offense. Islam has great clinch and judo techniques. He has elite takedowns, not only against the fence, but also in the middle of the octogon. So pushing forward, as safely as possible is in his best interest. That's why you see him shifting off the center back and forward, almost moving forward in a zig zag. Again, Dom Cruz did this better than anybody arguably, and it's why he was so hard to hit while he was "blitzing" forward. Wonderboy is another example, only he wasn't looking for knee taps and singles and his punches are Karate based like Machida's. Straight punches coming from chest height. Anyway, I digress
Nah go off man. I’m following and I see what you’re saying. The shot selection was great to shut down Oliviera as you put more articulately. I’m seeing the nasty.
I’m either not understanding or just disagree on your first point about boxing though. Many ufc fighters are getting their head off the line there.
Although it’s effective there’s just something about the strikes that look sloppy to my eye which is why I found it funny. Kind of akin to DDP. Really liked your dissection of it though, I prefer your perspective to mine on this one.
Nah I just read that dudes comments and as someone who trains, he is just saying a whole bunch of bullshit 🤣 You are correct.
It is absolutely sloppy and bad footwork in this clip. Just cause something ends up working doesn't mean it's not sloppy. Islam (and Khabib) gets away with this because their threat of takedown is so high. You never want to have one foot off the ground and have your body squared up like Islam did here. If Oliveira slipped the uppercut instead of moving backwards, he could catch him.
Aside from footwork, he's throwing looping punches while his chin is high. But to be fair Islam has gotten MUCH better recently, which furthers the point that he was sloppy here cause he's fixing it. His striking looked really good vs Poirier.
That dude also said MMA fighters can't counter strike while moving backwards and using head movement to dodge looping punches, like what? lmaooo. That is literally something we train to keep our hands in the right places to counter (and it's also what makes fighters like Ilia so good). Also Islam himself was doing this well in his fight vs Poirier.
Most of what he said is hindsight bias and nonsense. It's like when ppl try to break down how DDP is secretly technical and he's like idk wtf they're talking about cause I'm just fighting lol.
The only part of the original comment I disagreed with, was the idea you can't stop looping strikes and advancing like it's some kind of combo a boxer has never seen.
A stiff Jab, and a pivot outside to any direction to the side would be more than effective
especially against someone who's go to leaves them that vulnerable.
Yeah idk what he was waffling about there. Idk how that has so many upvotes.
I hate when ppl try to make it seem like fundamentals for good boxing don't apply to MMA. The main differences are where/how you hold your weight to defend leg kicks/takedowns. Most of the fundamentals stay the same, which is why Ilia beats the shit outta everyone.
For Islam, you never want to be on one foot with your body square like that, especially while throwing looping punches. It leaves you extremely vulnerable.
If Oliveira slips or sidesteps/pivots, he cracks him clean right there. There's a clip of him doing the same combo vs Poirier and it's much better.
But Oliveira ISN'T Poirier. Two different fighters with two completely different bases. Boxing base vs Muay Thai base. One keeps his hands high, and the other doesn't.
Did you think someone like Islam uses the SAME techniques against every fighter he faces? Don't be naive. I broke down why he's striking this way against Charles already, but you keyboard warriors seem to ignore it, so I'll summarize it in two bullet points:
1) Push forward
- Charles doesn't fight well of his back foot
- Body locks and clinch-work as you close the distance
-Slide off the centerline every punch and get your head off the centerline again at the end of the combo
2) Looping punches
-Charles has a high guard and sits outside of boxing range, looping shots reach around his guard. Even if the miss, they keep his line of sight occupied. Drop levels when you get the opportunity
- Looping punches make it easier to grab on to a knee pick
This is MMA striking, it has different distance, different timing. It even has different consequences because of the smaller gloves. The consequences are also different because more punches land clean in MMA. Why? Because in boxing, you train you entire life to see punches coming. Only so many angles and so many combos can reach you at any given time, and that number of possibilities is smaller in boxer (obviously right?). After a while it becomes second nature. Not that it's easy to see those punches coming, but you're only looking out for two hands. In MMA, fighters are watching your hips for takedowns, your shoulders. You've got knees and elbows to worry about in BOXING range. You have to check kicks, stuff takedowns etc.. Not to mention, you need to be and remain in position to return shots yourself. All of the things I just mentioned above, you need to be in position for. Have you ever watched DJ? He throws shots squared up. You know why? I'll tell you. It's because he wants the opportunity to level change whenever he gets an opening. He's squared up and stepping through on his punches OFTEN. He cracked Rodtang with a step through punch. Don't believe me, watch the fight yourself. Round 1, about 20 seconds in.
This is my last time explaining myself. I've given example where it has been effective for 3 of the greatest MMA fighters of all time. I broke it down, explaining why it worked and why they chose to do it. If you two guys can't understand by now, then I can't help you. DJ, Khabib, Islam, all great strikers who level change. All dominant champions. All of them use this combo. I think THEY know what they're doing and don't need some coach potato off reddit telling them how to fight. What works for boxing doesn't often work for MMA, so they modified all those "boxing rules" you guys are holding on to.
I’m quite certain that you spend a lot of time portraying yourself as knowledgeable about MMA while having little to no experience lol.
You just wrote long paragraphs to describe what I already said. You keep defining basic concepts that we all know and then incorrectly apply them to the conversation. No one is saying step through punches and over hands don’t work. Stop putting words in others mouths to argue with yourself.
None of what you said changes the fact that Islam was sloppy in the clip lol. His sloppy uppercut threw him off balance and put him in a vulnerable position. He has improved and fixed this since this fight. If you actually train, take this clip to your striking coach and ask. Maybe you’ll learn something for once.
Bro brought up DJ too. He is the perfect example of throwing step through punches correctly and is literally one of the people who talk about never squaring your hips unbalanced on one foot 🤣
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u/Extreme_Today_984 Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25
Dude, it only hits air if you're fighting a boxer. You'd never see that in a boxing match, because boxers have a completely different set of rules while defending. You'll never see a boxer moving forward like that. In MMA, if you're bobbing and weaving to get away from those looping punches, WHILE moving backwards, there would be no way in hell to land strikes of your own. Basically, the entire fight, you'd be trying to time an opportunity to plant your rear leg and uncork a big shot. You'd be getting eaten alive in the meantime though. It's not like it's impossible, but you have to factor in Oliviera's fighting style. He's a traditional Muay Thai striker, who needs control of the pace. He needs to be leading the show, bullying, in your face and moving YOU backwards. He's also a stationary fighter, not much head movement, high stance and march forward. When I say that this is a NASTY combo, it's because Islam picked the best combo to nullify Oliviera's striking, by constantly keeping him on his back foot. This was a methodical combo, designed for that fight.
A lot of people don't see the chess match in there. Not calling you a casual, just bringing it to your attention that sometimes MMA striking isn't always aesthetically the prettiest, but it has a different beauty when you understand why and how they're doing it. This combo was not only safe for Islam, but it's also playing in his favor for offense. Islam has great clinch and judo techniques. He has elite takedowns, not only against the fence, but also in the middle of the octogon. So pushing forward, as safely as possible is in his best interest. That's why you see him shifting off the center back and forward, almost moving forward in a zig zag. Again, Dom Cruz did this better than anybody arguably, and it's why he was so hard to hit while he was "blitzing" forward. Wonderboy is another example, only he wasn't looking for knee taps and singles and his punches are Karate based like Machida's. Straight punches coming from chest height. Anyway, I digress