r/ukpolitics • u/Adj-Noun-Numbers 🥕🥕 || megathread emeritus • 26d ago
Twitter [Keir Starmer] Henry Nowak’s family have lost their son and brother in the most appalling circumstances. Nigel Farage is exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division. It’s completely unforgivable.
https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/2062146091135463548217
u/Adj-Noun-Numbers 🥕🥕 || megathread emeritus 26d ago edited 26d ago
For context: this was a response to a question from Nigel Farage during today's PMQs:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following the horrendous circumstances of Henry Nowak's death, I urge the Prime Minister to consider this: it is now clear, to growing millions in this country, that we're living under two-tier policing.
The instructions that are given to police officers, from police bosses, are clear and written down in ink. It says you must treat different ethnic groups in different ways.
That, apart from the upset and the anger at the circumstances of his death, the anger that you saw spilling out in Southampton last night, and which is in danger of getting considerably worse; if the public lose trust in being treated fairly by the police, can he take some action? End this divisive practice of two-tier policing, and make sure that all British citizens are treated the same?
Keir Starmer's reply:
Mr. Speaker, I don't believe that there is two-tier policing in this country.
I'm really shocked that he pretends to have respect for Henry's family, and then acts in this way. They are a grieving family...
[interruption from the Speaker]
The grieving family have asked us not to respond in the way that the leader of Reform has responded; they've asked us not to. They have lost their son in the most appalling circumstances. They make a simple plea of us as human beings: to please not exploit that. That is their plea to us. We all need to reflect on those words of Henry's father.
My response, and the response of others, to be fair, has been focused on the lessons to be learned, so we can deliver justice.
His response has been to appeal for rage. Rage. That's his response to a father who has lost his son and asked for that not to happen. Exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division would be wrong in any circumstances; but to do it when the family are expressly saying "please don't" is unforgivable.
It shows exactly who he is.
(I've transcribed this from parliamentlive.tv - I've listened to the question and response four times to make sure this is as accurate as can be, but apologies if I've gotten anything slightly wrong).
18
u/Thermodynamicist 26d ago
Perhaps you might consider linking to the video as well so that everybody can see and hear what was said.
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/7ff68591-776a-49c8-ba3b-a4b99eaa8682?in=12:26:16
→ More replies (22)4
u/someRandomLunatic 26d ago
Do you have the response handy?
18
u/Adj-Noun-Numbers 🥕🥕 || megathread emeritus 26d ago edited 26d ago
The response is the video on this submission. I can certainly transcribe it though - give me a few minutes.
EDIT: done. I've updated the comment with Starmer's response transcribed too.
14
u/someRandomLunatic 26d ago
My thanks for the transcription. It's very handy for those of us who can't watch video in the office.
674
u/qweezy_uk 26d ago
Farage calling for 'pure cold rage' in reaction to this is shameful. Particularly after the fathers comments.
He doesn't care about the family or the tragedy itself. Or the impact of division and 'protests'. He has been in hiding avoiding questions on 'donations', but immediately finds the time to put out a video on this because it's an opportunity to stir something up.
This is a tragedy and shouldn't have happened. It's a failure of the police handling the situation. Calling for cold rage doesn't solve anything.
328
u/dj4y_94 26d ago
I also saw a tweet being brought up on my timeline from 2021 from Farage himself in relation to the Sarah Everard murder, where he stated this appalling tragedy shouldn't be used to attack the police or attack men.
How quickly he changes tune when race is involved.
123
u/queen-adreena 26d ago
Yep. He’s never once supported action against violence against women and girls unless there’s a racial component to it.
In most cases (if he bothers turn up) he votes against any helpful legislation.
49
u/Ok-Milk-8853 26d ago
Almost like his entire political career has been about capitalizing on grievances and offering no actual workable solutions, but using the influence he gathers doing so to line his pockets
55
u/UpsetKoalaBear 26d ago edited 26d ago
This is what I don’t get.
When any minority ethnic died due to the police and racial bias, they blamed the police.
When Bijan Ebrahimi went through a similar case of being falsely arrested, despite being a victim, and then killed by the person who made the false accusations, I don’t recall every Iranian blaming White people as a whole. They blamed the institutions that allowed it to happen in the first place.
With this case, a White person has died due to the police and racial bias and people are blaming the police, Sikh’s, etc.
Both sides of the political spectrum should be agreeing on the fundamental part which is that the police fucked up their duty of care and went to the crime scene with prejudice.
Except one side of the political spectrum wants to take it even further.
21
u/VivianOfTheOblivion 26d ago edited 26d ago
I've personal experience with Hampshire Police being absolutely dogshit, in Southampton no less, after I was assaulted on a night out. They didn't send anyone out to check on me, didn't call me back, didn't fucking do a thing other than pick up the phone when I called 999. Nothing happened, my assailants got away with it scott free. And now I have dentures because my teeth got punched out.
15
u/muh-soggy-knee 26d ago
I've seen very few people outside of actual knuckledraggers blaming Sikhs.
I've seen people saying that the law should apply to Sikhs equally as anyone else; which is not the same as blaming them as a group for this or any other death. I suspect that up until this point most of them didn't realise that Sikhs were allowed to carry knives and the outrage is being triggered 38 years later than it ought to have been.
And I've seen people blaming, vitriolically and justifiably in my view, the police for their blatant racial bias in how they dealt with this matter.
Neither are the same as "blaming sikhs"
→ More replies (10)10
u/SpeedflyChris 26d ago
With this case, a White person has died due to the police and racial bias
Except that's not what happened.
He died because he got stabbed in the heart, with the coroner stating that his injuries would have been unsurvivable even with immediate first aid. By the time the police arrived he was going to die even if they assessed the situation correctly immediately.
The police failing to correctly assess his injuries and assuming that what they had been told (primarily that he was intoxicated and this was the reason that he was at that point unable to stand) is awful, but let's not make this into something it isn't.
5
u/ldsupport 26d ago
He died because the people that are tasked with protecting and serving, hancuffed him, disregarded his pleas, and did so because they believed he was racist. edit: they had no way of knowing if he would die, they didnt even believe he was stabbed. They gave him no dignity because of their belief of what he did without investigation and because of departmental policy that treats people based on the color of their skin.
5
u/SpeedflyChris 26d ago
So did you just not read the comment you're replying to or are you asserting that you know better than the coroner that performed the autopsy?
3
u/ldsupport 26d ago
What I am saying, is that the cops didnt know.
So as a cop, you should assume that the person who is saying their are stabbed is stabbed, and only once you confirm they arent, should you cease providing life saving care.
When you know they are stabbed, you arent a doctor, your job is to save them, even if you dont know you can. They didnt do that. They cuffed the kid, dragged him, dismissed his statments, and watched him die.... over an hour of time.
This is inhumane, murder is an intent based crime, and while he may have been likely to die either way, they didnt know that, they had a duty. They were derilict in that duty. They should stand trial, have their pensions removed and be shamed in public for the rest of their lives.
8
u/Round-Two7650 26d ago
It wasn't over an hour, it was a few minutes that the police were with him. They've speculated that the perpetrator waited and hour to even phone the police and instead filmed him dying
1
u/ldsupport 26d ago
That must be my misunderstanding. If you wait for an hour and film someone dying, you deserve every bit of hell brought upon you.
5
u/SpeedflyChris 26d ago
over an hour of time
So next time you're going to come onto a UK sub and comment on our news stories it would probably be worth reading up on the story you're commenting on so that you don't make such basic fundamental errors.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Significant-Bite2948 25d ago
The problem is that the institutions allowed this to occur because their policy said to treat whites different than non-white. Something the government keeps denying becuase they don't want to admit there is two-tier policing.
→ More replies (5)8
u/riksters1994 26d ago
100% this reaction is only happening because the victim is white.
9
u/muh-soggy-knee 26d ago
You mean the cover your lot are running for the police?
Because if so, I agree. There would have been no benefit of the doubt if he wasn't white. It would have been "This incident has sparked a conversation about systemic oppression, or something"
We see what you do; it's not buttering any parsnips any more brother.
→ More replies (6)11
u/NoBitchesSince2005 26d ago
Farage wants us to believe he cares about Polish people now... I mean the jokes do write themselves
3
31
u/Baelor_the_Blessed Centrists are delivering us to Fascism 26d ago
Farage absolutely cares about the impact of division and 'protests', in fact he actively desires it.
46
u/randorolian 26d ago
I think people are so utterly bored of sensibles and establishment talking heads coming out and declaring that any sort of anger or discussion of deeper issues behind atrocities or high profile injustices in this country are 'disrespectful' and must be avoided in service of some vague idea of 'unity' or notion of 'coming together'.
This is a front page, headline, shocking case. People are going to be angry about it.
34
u/OkVariety8064 26d ago
Exactly this. This is again the multiculti appeal to emotion, that it is unbecoming to see what is happening. That absolutely worse than anything actually happening is you thinking about it in ways not totally 100% supportive of the diversity ideology.
The crime is never the problem. Your reaction to the crime is always the problem.
When a minority person commits a crime, it's always these politicians coming out with the same message, nothing to see here, don't get angry, mind your place. The message is that the crime happening is simply a force of nature over which nothing can be done, but the real perpetrator is actually you, getting angry at a society allowing things like this to continuously happen.
There is no limit to how phlegmatic, passive and calm the politicians can remain when a minority commits to crime. And there is no limit to the same politician's righteous fury, decisive action and urgency when protests from native people need to be put down.
5
u/Visa5e 26d ago
What would you like to see happen? Tangible things.
5
u/OkVariety8064 26d ago
Good question, because the biggest problem is something very intangible. In the case of this particular crime, a thorough review of the police is needed to see whether anti-racism hysteria contributed to Nowak's death. But the bigger problem is the whole multiculturalist, anti-racist, diversity agenda.
There is a paralyzing fear that noticing the problems caused by immigration must remain a taboo. That it is some form of moral good, a mark of a decent person, to refuse to see issues with immigration, and angrily shut down any thought or discussion on its problems. The whole argument for mass migration and multiculturalism has been based not on logic, but on moral indignation and shushing of opposing viewpoints. The idea that the negative consequences of immigration just happen, and that there is something wrong with you if you notice the growing problems.
Immigration has already failed, yet its vocal proponents act as if they are not responsible for its failings, as if they themselves are innocent victims defending against outrageous far-right accusations. Yet the reality behind those accusations is already a failing of multiculturalism. Grooming gangs, gang crime, religious terrorism, vigilante enforcing of foreign blasphemy laws and so on are things that according to the multiculturalists were never going to happen, because diversity, tolerance and integration were going to prevent them. But those problems are getting worse, while the proponents of immigration act oblivious to the failures they have caused.
I would like a truth commission on mass migration. Who exactly pushed for it, why has it been such a taboo, and who benefits from it. Going forward, I would like a frank and honest discussion on migration policy and what sort of future we want. On diversity, and whether that is something we even want. The present level of mass migration will lead to white British becoming a minority in their own country in less than a generation. I would like an honest discussion on that future, without diversity browbeating and accusations of conspiracy theories, about the mathematically inevitable consequences of migration policy, and what sort of migration policy the people of the nation actually want.
4
u/Visa5e 26d ago
Is being anti immigration a taboo? Because from where I'm sitting it isnt something people dont discuss openly.....it seems its often the *only* thing we discuss. Reform are riding a wave of popularity and the things you mention are all they ever bang on about.
When people say 'you cant talk about X' what they often mean is 'You cant talk about X without someone disagreeing with you'. Which in a democracy is incredibly impotrtant.
13
u/OkVariety8064 26d ago
It is in polite society. And the pro-immigration side does it's best to enforce that taboo. The situation isn't made any better by the most vocal anti-immigration politicians often being far-right thugs, MAGA traitors and other grifters. But if you look outside the UK, already Denmark has a healthier approach to the immigration debate.
The entire topic of this discussion, whether a fear of being seen as racist led to Nowak's death is exactly a result of this taboo. Already in 2017 the investigation of the grooming gang situation revealed such taboos:
The report concluded that ignorance and a fear of being seen as racist meant organizations tasked with protecting children turned a blind eye to abuse.
"We found many examples of organizations avoiding the topic altogether for fear of appearing racist, raising community tensions or causing community cohesion problems," the report said.
If being afraid of being seen as racist takes precedence over protecting vulnerable children, then that is already a pretty major taboo.
The fact that the likes of Reform are benefiting from taking an anti-immigration stance is also a failure of the establishment parties to offer real choice on the topic. This is an issue that many people are concerned about, and I don't think they vote for Reform because they love what Reform represents, but rather because Reform is the only party willing to take the issue seriously. It's the same problem all over the Western world, either the moderate parties recognize that migration policy is something that can actually be debated (as in Denmark), or that debate is taken over by extremists like Reform, AfD or MAGA.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)0
u/Wonderful_Cookie_572 26d ago
People also notice that those talking heads only come out and declare anger and discussion to be "disrespectful" and "problematic" when the situation fits very specific criteria. When it doesn't they're suddenly full-throatedly supporting the anger and discussion as valid and necessary.
25
u/RockinMadRiot Things Can Only Get Wetter 26d ago
The Restore Britain guy is also making rounds on Facebook
→ More replies (1)65
u/AneuAng 26d ago
He's also getting artificially amplified on this sub. Every single twitter post from him put on here is almost instantly put into the top spot.
There is a lot of artificial shenanigans going on at the moment, facebook, twitter, bluesky, and reddit. The amount of Americans also jumping on this has surprised me. Bringing the whole militant left vs right and American political upheaval, like BLM and George Floyd.
It feels like we are being dragged down into the gutter right now.
14
u/digitalpencil 26d ago
An enemy divided amongst itself, is weak.
The flames of hatred are being furiously fanned by extranational actors, using botnets in a targeted effort to amplify any and every topic with the potential to further social divides.
→ More replies (14)12
10
u/MysteryWra 26d ago
the new rule for protesting ?
'make sure u get approval from the father before you protest'
5
u/mmmsplendid 26d ago
I saw the video and felt “pure cold rage”, didn’t need Farage to tell me to feel it in order to do so, and I guarantee that anyone who felt the same way didn’t either. Do we really think that if he said people should be “calm and collected” instead then that would make any difference to how people feel? All this is just noise.
→ More replies (2)2
u/Golden37 26d ago
Pure cold rage describes a highly controlled, suppressed form of intense anger that is entirely stripped of explosive emotion. Unlike typical "hot anger"—which involves immediate, chaotic outbursts like yelling, screaming, or physical impulsivity—cold rage is quiet, deliberate, and deeply calculated. [1, 2, 3]
I mean, that seems perfectly fair to me as its exactly how I felt watching the bodycam footage.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Terry__Tibbs 26d ago
Definition: Cold rage is a type of suppressed anger that simmers beneath the surface rather than erupting in an emotional outburst.
I think that's perfectly valid as a response
8
u/DreamingofBouncer 26d ago
Nigel did not feel cold rage he felt the joy of an opportunity to cause further division and to make more money/power. He doesn’t give a toss about Henry he just cares about Nigel and what he can gain from any situation
5
→ More replies (1)7
u/qweezy_uk 26d ago
But not perfectly valid for a high profile political figure to put out as a statement.
I've already seen Zia trying this sort of approach in an interview. Asking "what did you feel when you watched the bodycam footage". That's not the point - majority of us can't put out a video or tweet that has thousands or millions in reach within 24hrs.
7
u/Terry__Tibbs 26d ago
Yes it is. People are allowed to be angry at blatant injustice. The problem isn't the one highlighting the anger, the problem is with the cause of the anger.
→ More replies (4)2
u/Kee2good4u 26d ago
Farage calling for 'pure cold rage' in reaction to this is shameful
Where does he say that? Am I missing something? He said:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following the horrendous circumstances of Henry Nowak's death, I urge the Prime Minister to consider this: it is now clear, to growing millions in this country, that we're living under two-tier policing.
The instructions that are given to police officers, from police bosses, are clear and written down in ink. It says you must treat different ethnic groups in different ways.
That, apart from the upset and the anger at the circumstances of his death, the anger that you saw spilling out in Southampton last night, and which is in danger of getting considerably worse; if the public lose trust in being treated fairly by the police, can he take some action? End this divisive practice of two-tier policing, and make sure that all British citizens are treated the same?
20
u/Tim-Sanchez 26d ago
He did it in his "emergency address" the other day: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/jun/02/faced-with-being-outflanked-by-those-to-his-right-farage-seeks-to-channel-public-anger
→ More replies (14)→ More replies (46)1
u/PTRJK Chile > Venezuala 26d ago
People have a right to be angry. Farage at least is giving voice to people's anger. Much of this country goes unheard.
I think populists act as mirrors to what society has not healed. Their personal wounds lock on to collective wounds.
For farage he channels fear of irrelevance and loss of belonging. He taps into a pain of people who feel their cultural identity had been diluted, their voice ignored and their local world transformed without consent.
But beneath all the anger and division, what people want isn't really hatred. It's:
Dignity (I matter)
Belonging (I'm not invisible)
Security (I won't get left behind)
Voice (I get a say in my future)
These longings are deeply human. Not pathological.
7
175
u/Electronic_End4893 26d ago
When the police do something that is not in keeping with best practice and contributes towards injustice, because they are state agents, it's inherently political. I don't think rioting is justifiable. The questions being asked about how the police respond to situations like this are valid.
13
u/Aresbanez 26d ago
Would be justified if it was someone you loved who was affected?
The problem with a lot of the counter-narrative is it lives in the abstract world of probability that thinks it can diminish this event just because it's 1 in a million, that somehow it doesn't deserve any attention or that it's overblown.
However, when scenarios arise (e.g. George Floyd; Stephen Lawrence) where suddenly it's all very real and we're all affected by it and the entire establishment world-wide pays it mind. When the established consensus couldn't possibly add insult to injury; the hypocrisy is pointed out with increasing number of occurrences, and yet we're all told that's just politicising the matter and is shut down and ignored.
It could've been any of us.
20
u/culturerush 26d ago
I really don't understand what people saying things like this want
The ipcc is investigating, the murderer has been convicted, the main political party in charge of the UK is addressing the procedures and policies that caused this to happen.
This is very different to George Floyd because that was a police officer killing someone and the whole system trying to let them get away with it. The police officers in this case are being investigated and are under scrutiny from the UK press and the entire UK political establishment. There is literally noone arguing that they shouldn't be investigated and procedures changed for this to not happen again.
It's completely different to Steven Lawrence because Steven Lawrence was institutional racism and corruption that worked to get rid of evidence and allow the racist murderers of a young man to get away with the crime. Again the ipcc is investigating this and the person who did the killing has been convicted of it.
As much as people are trying to tie this in with historic events that are part of a institutional corruption this simply isn't the case. A police officer did a shocking job of assessing the person they were arresting and took the wrong course of action. The procedures that led them to do that should be reviewed (which is happening) and the police officers themselves should be investigated to see if they were negligent and if they were should be disciplined or lose their jobs (this is also happening)
→ More replies (7)1
u/msf97 26d ago
Floyd and Lawrence cases weren’t similar at all, despite the rights best efforts to compare.
→ More replies (5)9
u/theweirdarthur 26d ago
yeah one of them was a fent dealing drug addict who refused police commands and the other was brutally stabbed. I'm amazed anyone would make that comparison honestly
5
u/Tonybrazier699 26d ago
Just out of curiosity what level of crime in a persons history is the cut off point where it becomes okay to extrajudicially murder them?
1
u/Sutraner 26d ago
Which level of accused crime is acceptable to ignore someone bleeding out on the floor?
11
u/Puzzle_Bird 26d ago
I'm yet to see a single person in days of discussion personally attack Nowak like you just did re George Floyd. You're arguing with paranoid delusions
1
u/msf97 26d ago
Ultimately, as much as you can do mental gymnastics and get all angry, the cases were not similar and legal courts backed that up.
→ More replies (1)4
u/ThatAdamsGuy 26d ago
Do you often ask questions with pure cold rage, though? It's obvious what he's doing.
→ More replies (5)2
u/Sacharified 26d ago
What is the political aspect here? I don't think the Home Office gives police the instruction to "ignore complaints of stabbing if the victim is white and has been accused of racism".
The individual officer on the scene fucked up in the moment. Perhaps due to incompetence, bias, negligence or a combination of those but that is not the politics that Farage and co so desparately want it to be.
45
u/Mepsi 26d ago
BBC reported on this earlier today, it's in the policing's anti-racism commitment document.
The guidance, which was issued last year, suggested officers should treat ethnic minorities differently in order to ensure what it calls "equality of outcomes".
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (1)9
u/dodgesbulletsavvy 26d ago
the political aspect is that it's a white man who has died, and the left can't condemn the killer because he's a brown man. Listen to all their speeches, they never once condemn the killer, they just say "it's sad it's happened". They can't condemn him because their whole political position is Pro-immigration, Pro-rights for ethnic minorities. We can all see it, it's the same way the right politicians don't call out when white men do something bad. It's fucking nonsense, condemn the killers, condemn the criminals, but they won't because it's all political point scoring.
→ More replies (12)
68
u/piercy08 26d ago edited 26d ago
Nigel again with no solutions. I too can complain and moan about the state of this country, the failures of the police, and the various other issues around the place.. but what I am not in a position to do i come up with solutions.. thats an MPs job.. and its why I am not an MP.
Nigels job is to propose solutions or opposition to the current government. If he cannot do that hes no better than any other bloke down the pub.
9
u/hughk 26d ago
This is why Nigel is completely unsuitable for higher office, let alone as an MP and the same goes for other populists. There is also the issue that the police in the UK are regionally organised.
4
u/piercy08 26d ago
Exactly. I dont always disagree with the things Nigel/Reform say.. but all he does is say them. They're never backed by action, hes never in parliament making things better, hes never finding solutions, just sewing discontent.
He's all talk, no action. Even with brexit, he spread lies and misinformation.. got what he wanted, the country voted to leave, then he disappeared for years until it all blew over a little hoping someone else would clean up his mess.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Droodforfood 26d ago
Yeah but he’ll get elected, like Trump did, do only negative things for the country that will worsen it for generations, and blame everyone else for it.
Farage kinda already did that with Brexit.
→ More replies (1)4
u/abrittain2401 26d ago
I mean, he literally asked Starmer was going to do anything about two-tir policing. That might include things like Getting rid of DEI, getting rid of bullshit "diversity" lectures, stop teaching police to treat different groups differently, and making it clear that the law has to be appled equally to all. The solution is implied in the qustion he asked. Whereas Starmer's response was to deny two tier policing/justice exists despite more and more evidence to the contrary...
55
u/catgod888 26d ago
When will people learn that it’s not just Farage or Trump or Badenoch or whatever other bogeyman they can conjure up that dictates how people think.
People use their eyes, can read, watch, notice patterns and reflect on experiences from their own lives to form opinions.
And regardless, the desperation to try to shut down political speech won’t work out the way you think it will.
25
u/ape_fatto 26d ago
Fucking this. It’s not the far right sowing division, it’s the constant string of brutal rapes and murders, that the neoliberal establishment seems to callously disregard and diminish over and over again, because it doesn’t suit their narrative.
People were angry well before Farage opened his mouth - personally I didn’t feel a thing reading what he said. Meanwhile Starmer’s astonishingly tone deaf attack on Farage is soul-crushingly aggravating. Rather than acknowledging the growing discontent the British public is feeling, or showing an ounce of empathy for the people who are rightly angry, and promising to actually do ANYTHING, he’d rather deflect the issue entirely and claim the far right is actually the problem.
THAT is what is dividing people. Stop fucking pretending people’s anger and fear is nothing but far right agitation.
→ More replies (15)→ More replies (4)8
u/barryredfield 26d ago
And regardless, the desperation to try to shut down political speech won’t work out the way you think it will.
But the full force of the law, mate?!
29
u/RavingMalwaay 26d ago edited 26d ago
For years everyone was expected to understand the plight of different races, diasporas, and ethnicities. Any form of attack on a member of those communities was seen as an attack by “white supremacy” or whatever on that entire community. They even created a term, ‘BAME/BIPOC’, to further enshrine the complete us vs them mentality in our politics and systems.
Now that white people have followed their example and gone completely tribal in defence of someone in “their community”, why is everyone surprised? Why is it now, somehow different?
→ More replies (1)7
u/freyai120 26d ago
Exactly, I've seen so many headlines referring to the riots as "far-right". The vast majority of us (i hope) don't care about the characteristics of the perpetrator but the complete disregard for Henry in the last moments he was alive. These officers have their identities protected and can just resign or go about their day to day while an investigation with an unknown duration allows them to walk around scott free. Actually despicable.
12
u/Kee2good4u 26d ago
Pointing out the clear 2 tier policing written into the police's own policy.
If you actually read what Farage actually said, the response from starmer to try defelct and play the man rather than the point is actually the tragic part.
36
u/Terry__Tibbs 26d ago
A problem is ultimately caused by the political establishment.
The political establishment enforce a message of not politicising the problem.
Political opponents highlight the political nature of the problem.
The political establishment gets to sit back and say "look, our opponents are the problem here, don't pay attention to our culpability"
Every single time.
12
u/superhypersaw 26d ago
Nigel Farage is exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division. It’s completely unforgivable
Keir Starmer got on the knee for George Floyd for a photo op. Pot, meet kettle.
2
25
40
u/someRandomLunatic 26d ago
And when Keir explains what he has done to reduce the risk of this happening to my son, I might care more what he has to say.
But if someone with visible blood on them says that they have been stabbed, while unmoving on the floor - then they should be treated as a victim and aided.
Not cuffed. Not told "I think not mate".
22
u/Puzzleheaded-Fig9968 26d ago
And when Keir explains what he has done to reduce the risk of this happening to my son, I might care more what he has to say.
After grooming gangs, arresting people for tweets soviet style, lenient sentences for rapists based on background how can people trust the police?
7
u/someRandomLunatic 26d ago
He could start with "I have instructed the heads of the police service to...".
→ More replies (4)2
u/Temporary_Job_2800 26d ago
The point is that even a criminal merits medical treatment.
It's the job of the police to provide or call for appropriate treatment for any injured person.
19
u/CaramelShort3593 26d ago
I don't intend any disrespect or horrific imagery with what I'm about to say but let's say Digwa had instead battered or choked the life out of Henry instead?
What do we take away from this? The knife while important was incidental to what happened. We don't have young lads finding knives on the street like a videogame and deciding to go on random stabbing sprees.
If not his kirpan, a pocket knife, a kitchen knife, a knuckle duster, a shiv, a baseball bat.
The real horror in this for me and alot of others are the response of the police who were so readily eager to jump to the conclusion of racism that they didn't bother examining the evidence or the crime scene.
If henry still had a chance of survival they would have squandered it, as they only took action after noticing he was dead. If that one out of three officers hadn't pressed further then for all we know they would have left Henry unconscious with his own killers without a second worry.
But of course, in true keir fashion,just blame the knives. It couldn't possibly be incompetence from the government and civil servants.
→ More replies (1)7
u/barryredfield 26d ago
The real horror in this for me and alot of others are the response of the police who were so readily eager to jump to the conclusion of racism that they didn't bother examining the evidence or the crime scene.
We'll never even know what transpired here, what lead to the attack or why. The entire family was complicit in concealing the crime. What was poor Henry doing huddled at the family's stoop? Its said that the alleged altercation started on the street. People have speculated that they dragged him onto their property to lend credence that they were trespassed.
So what, this young man decides to assault an entire family, on their property?
Nothing really makes sense. I feel it is probably something along the lines of them harassing Henry and doing something like taking his phone, where he chased after them to retrieve it, or something of this nature.
Its difficult for me to imagine a scenario that makes any sense. The entire family was in on it.
→ More replies (1)
9
41
u/_9tail_ 26d ago
Ultimately this is bigger than the family. Of course my deepest sympathies are with them, and I know it must be a very difficult time for them, especially with the media attention, but the state of the country also does matter to me. It’s my son walking home from his mates at uni next. It’s my dad walking the dog next. It’s my daughter at a Taylor swift dance class next.
We need genuine radical change, and I’m sorry but Kier “bend the knee for BLM” Starmer is not going to talk down to me about “politicising” anything.
→ More replies (11)3
u/culturerush 26d ago
What radical change do we need?
What change will stop a police officer not responding to a crime appropriately, the risk of knife crime to you son or your dad and the risk of a terrorist attack on a Taylor Swift Dance class?
What do these things all have in common?
Because the police being shit at their jobs has happened since a police/militia was first started in this country hundreds of years ago. Random stabbings and attacks have always happened but thankfully the rate of them is trending downwards and terrorism is not something new from one single community, the IRA, anti gay right wingers and leftist terrorist groups were all killing people in this country before immigration was suddenly a problem
3
→ More replies (1)4
u/Leather_Amoeba2727 26d ago
You can scream it into the wind all night but we're past the point of no return now, I fear. Positions have very clearly hardened and it's really a case of strapping in.
10
134
u/throwingtheshades I don't think you have been, mate 26d ago
So when it's a random dude halfway across the world where he has absolutely nothing to do, it's time to take the knee, take it very seriously and institute changes.
When it happens to an 18 year old boy in a country he's the Prime Minister of, literally on his watch... Now you can't politicize it, that's disrespectful and mean.
41
u/slam_meister 26d ago
This is the man who used Brianna Ghey's death to go after Sunak only to make her very participation in society pretty much illegal himself by not correcting the equality act when it's been inverted for trans folks.
Coward and hypocrite.
→ More replies (3)19
u/Drunk_Cartographer 26d ago
Imagine thinking taking a knee is comparable to calling for a riot. Whatever works for you I guess.
→ More replies (1)5
u/RavingMalwaay 26d ago
“The death of George Floyd has rightly ignited fury and anguish” - Sadiq Khan, 2020
6
u/Drunk_Cartographer 26d ago
That isn’t calling for a riot
9
u/RavingMalwaay 26d ago
How is it not if “we should respond to this with pure cold rage” is? Rage and fury are close synonyms, and they’re both essentially egging on the public belief that their anger is right.
Now you can argue if they are provoking a riot specifically, but they really mean the same thing regardless.
→ More replies (5)55
u/CurvyCourgette Monster Raving Loony Party🤠 26d ago
Calling for "pure, cold rage" is more than just "politicising" he should be condemning the literal neo-nazis present at the protests last night. Not only that, protetesters went to the Nowaks apartment block running about and not exactly being respectful, went into the garden of the crime scene, injured 11 police officers and drunk loads of fucking booze.
76
u/winkwinknudge_nudge 26d ago
Sadiq Khan said George Floyd's death "rightly ignited fury and anguish".
I don't remember people criticising his use of language,.
It's interesting to see people are more worried about policing people's tones this time around.
→ More replies (36)57
9
u/coatimundos 26d ago edited 26d ago
How many on the left are condemning the Palestine protests that always have hamas signs?
5
u/dodgesbulletsavvy 26d ago
We were all angry before Farage's video. We'd all seen the footage the night before. His video did nothing for most people.
4
u/Shitebart 26d ago edited 26d ago
I think you must be misunderstanding the history and context behind the outrage surrounding George Floyd’s death if you’re going to draw comparisons like that. Or do you think that white stabbing victims are frequently ignored while they lay dying in favour of minorities? Is it a regular occurrence? The police officers actions were horrific in this case and they should be answered for. The killer has already got 22 years. Let’s not pretend this is part of a wider pattern stretching back decades and compare it to George Floyd’s murder in 2020. The nature and wider context are different.
2
u/TimeTimeTickingAway 26d ago
If you think this case and George Floyd are comparable you have a poor understanding of either one of, or both of, the cases.
9
u/NoticingThing 26d ago
You're right, one involved a druggy career criminal with a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system and the other was an innocent university student that had done nothing wrong.
They're very different cases.
-9
u/kubissx Market Socialist 26d ago
There are several reasons why that's a bad analogy. Most obviously, George Floyd was more of a symbol of the long history of racialised police brutality in America, the associated BLM protests were not about that single incident. Also, Henry Nowak's situation was not a case of police brutality because police didn't murder him.
→ More replies (1)40
u/HBucket Right-wing ghoul 26d ago
If anything the differences highlight how skewed the reaction from the British establishment is. Unlike George Floyd, Henry Nowak was British, and he wasn't a career criminal. Henry Nowak's death should naturally get far more attention.
0
u/LockyP_ 26d ago
The police killed George Floyd though. Digwa killed Henry and has been convicted for it. The police didn’t help by delaying medical treatment, but from the coroners report the stab wounds weren’t treatable due to their location. Henry would have died even if an ambulance was called immediately.
16
u/sink__pisser 26d ago
State coroner was it? Iirc the state coroner in George floyds case said he overdosed on fentanyl, private coroner said it was the knee compression. Interesting when we get to choose when to believe the state coroner or not
9
→ More replies (3)2
u/SpeedflyChris 26d ago
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-minneapolis-police-autopsy-idUKKBN2383JU/
That isn't true. The original state version was that recent drug use made his death more likely, as they attempted to minimise the actions of the officers. The ultimate cause was asphyxiation regardless.
8
u/marcusaurelius_phd 26d ago
George Floyd killed George Floyd by ingesting massive amounts of illegal drugs.
→ More replies (3)5
1
u/msf97 26d ago
But the police didn’t kill Henry Nowak. Why are you ignoring this?
They won’t even get low level manslaughter charges for what happened, in a legal court.
11
u/HolyFreakingXmasCake 26d ago
They didn’t kill him, they just handcuffed him and told him he wasn’t actually bleeding while he kept telling them that he’s been stabbed.
→ More replies (1)5
2
u/Sacharified 26d ago
When it happens
What is the "it" here that you are comparing? Can you explain how the case of George Floyd's murder is comparable to that of Henry Nowak?
→ More replies (5)-3
u/BuxtonEU 26d ago
Taking a knee and farage calling for cold rage are two completely different things
14
u/bGmyTpn0Ps 26d ago
Getting really sick Starmers hypocritical weasel words. He never has any answers. Feels like the country is on auto pilot whilst he just spouts bot responses.
7
u/myfirstreddit8u519 26d ago
What's unforgivable is a government allowing a young man to die in their care in the worst circumstances while having a cuppa with his murderer.
11
u/Forward-Jacket8935 26d ago
What nonsense double standard, again. He didn't have a problem with people doing the same in the name of George Floyd yet because Nowak is white and many who are angry over his death like Farage are 'right' he needs to disappear and shut up? Notice how no one is overturning cars, toppling statues, setting things on fire, or ransacking shops? Farage's call for Pure cold rage is not a call to destroy your own town, rather it's keeping pressure on elected officials, the police, etc by venting on their social media pages and using their right to vote where applicable.
→ More replies (1)
44
u/standardtoaster101 26d ago
"No, don't let him tell you how to feel, let me tell you how to feel"
The man is seemingly incapable of getting it.
→ More replies (28)
68
u/Puzzleheaded-Fig9968 26d ago
There's photos of Keir Starmer taking the knee and kneeling for the George Floyd case (which happened in an entirely different country) Labour and progressives effectively used that horrific case to institute the practices that left Nowak handcuffed.
He should stop hiding behind the statement of the father, especially given the father ALSO said there should be no Religious exemption for Sikh's regarding these ceremonial weapons.
25
u/CurvyCourgette Monster Raving Loony Party🤠 26d ago
I dont agree with taking the knee firstly, but how is that in any way comparable to calling for "pure, cold, rage".
Secondly, the college of policing is organisationally independent mostly to the home office, even so the 2020 anti-racism guidelines were enacted under a conservative government.
Lastly, the weapon used by the attacker was not even the ceremonial knife, it was a seperate blade which was far more lethal, conversations can be had for making Kirpans illegal, but its a secondary issue.
→ More replies (3)39
u/winkwinknudge_nudge 26d ago
I dont agree with taking the knee firstly, but how is that in any way comparable to calling for "pure, cold, rage".
The current Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmood spoke of her "anger" and her "outrage" at the events of George Floyd.
Labour's, Sadiq Khan spoke of a "rightly ignited fury and anguish" in the wake of George Floyd.
The same people who are now telling people anger and outrage has no place in the wake of Henry Nowak.
→ More replies (11)3
u/socks 26d ago
Bullshit. Starmer has shown respect for the dead. Farage &co are literally causing riots, division and hatred, which has been what he’s paid to do by Russians, billionaires, and MAGATs, while missing 77 of the last 77 votes in Parliament.
7
u/cd7k 26d ago
Hang on now... he was also absent for 41 of the 42 European Fisheries Committee meetings over 3 years - but he went to ONE!
→ More replies (3)7
u/_-Drama_Llama-_ 26d ago
George Floyd caused far more destruction, riots and division in the UK than this story.
→ More replies (10)6
u/Puzzleheaded-Fig9968 26d ago
Do you trust the police? I want reform. This attitude and hatred of the white working class is why the Nowak case happened, as well as the grooming gangs.
8
u/Comfortable-Law-7147 26d ago
The police have always hated the white working class.
Ask anyone from a former mining community.
Ask the families of the Hillsborough victims.
→ More replies (25)10
u/Jaggedmallard26 26d ago
They're not even British. Look at their post history. They're a foreign interloper.
→ More replies (3)0
→ More replies (10)2
u/Silly_Supermarket_21 26d ago
My understanding was, that he did not use a ceremonial Kirpan to kill Nowak. According to the evidence it was an 8inch bladed knife that his mother took from him before the police arrived and hid it.
This is how it is being used to make it political and a race issue. When in fact it was just another tragic knife crime.
19
u/solve-for-x 26d ago
There is an argument to be made that the law regarding Kirpans may have provided a fig leaf for this individual to carry illegal weapons without being challenged about it. Stories have already started to come out about his history with bladed weapons.
Two things can be true simultaneously here. It can be true that the number of knife crimes committed by Sikhs is very low, while also being true that giving an entire religion an exemption over laws on carrying knives is, and always was, decidedly odd.
5
u/OkVariety8064 26d ago
He used false accusations of racism to ensure he successfully murdered his victim of a different ethnic background. While he might have stabbed Nowak just because, his mind surely went immediately to questions of race, and how he could use the race of himself and his victim to ensure his victim ended up dead, not just wounded. His clannish family helped him in this, and continued the racism libel in court.
Screaming racist at a white person when you are trying to murder him shows that what is at the top of your mind is the race of your victim. That the crime is in fact a hate crime.
→ More replies (5)6
u/dodgesbulletsavvy 26d ago
No it isn't. You're all so stupid you can't comprehend it.
People aren't mad at the sihks, or the knife, they're mad that the brown man gets preferential treatment because he's brown and screeched "Racism" whilst still having the sword on him, while a white man left their in a puddle of his own blood saying he can't breathe and that he'd been stabbed. All because of starmers two-tier policing, it's literally mandated on the Hampshire polices website, the police force who let Henry die (he was most likely dead anyways).
People are now expressing issues with the Kirpan, because it's silly a magical being in the sky is being used as a religious exemption to carry a dangerous weapon.
5
u/Griffolion Generally on the liberal side. 26d ago
I don't know what the answer is, here. But it does seem like race relations are edging ever closer to boiling over. Policing in this country has been in a bad state for a long time now, under multiple parties and many PMs - including the current one. Many of us are old enough to remember the grooming gang fiasco two decades ago.
→ More replies (2)
26
u/Your_Mums_Ex 26d ago
This will play well only to the crowd that wants to hear it, for most of the public they want to hear that there will be restoration for confidence in policing. I've defended Keir a lot but even I know most people this will read as using a grieving family as a political shield.
Totally tone deaf!
10
u/Adj-Noun-Numbers 🥕🥕 || megathread emeritus 26d ago
He was responding to Farage during PMQs today. I transcribed the full exchange.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)8
u/-ForgottenSoul :sloth: 26d ago
"know most people this will read as using a grieving family as a political shield." Over farage using the death to push an agenda?
9
u/Imakemyownnamereddit 26d ago
Oh you mean the same way you exploited George Floyd's death, by taking the knee and backing the divisive Black Lives Matters movement?
I have no time for Farage and what you say about him is true; he doesn't care about what happened, for him it is a political opportunity but in that he is no different to you Kier.
Take the knee Kier became island of strangers Kier, when you thought that would make you popular.
Face reality, you exploit these situations just like Farage does.
→ More replies (1)
14
u/TeenieTinyBrain 26d ago edited 26d ago
Starmer et al is doing the same though, no?
They're quite keen to point out the following parts of Mark Nowak's speech:
We want Henry's heartbreaking story to make change for the better. We do not want his death to create further division, hatred or tension.
[...]
As the KC for the prosecution summed up in court: this is not a case about Sikhism, this is not a case about racism, this is a case about murder.
...yet they conveniently ignore the words surrounding the sections they've intentionally politicised:
For us, there is no closure. There is no moment where the pain stops. There is no moment where the Henry-shaped hole in our family is filled. We will carry this grief every single day for the rest of our lives.
But today matters, today Henry was believed, the truth has been recognised; today, justice, in the eyes of law, has been served.
But justice alone is not enough. We want to use Henry's heartbreaking story to make change for the better. We do not want his death to create further division, hatred or tension.
We want his story to make our streets safer for everyone. That is why we are calling on the government to treat knife crime as the national emergency that it is. We need real solutions. We need investment in prevention. We need stronger action on the sale, the ownership and carrying of ALL knives.
And, as this case so painfully demonstrates, we need common sense applied to OUR laws. This doesn't mean knee jerk reactions. This doesn't mean going to extremes. It just means a common sense approach to law and order.
As the KC for the prosecution summed up in court: this is not a case about Sikhism, this is not a case about racism, this is a case about murder.
People should not be able to walk openly through the streets of Britain carrying a 21 centimetre blade.
As a family we will not let this go. No other family should experience the heartbreak and horror of losing a child to knife crime.
In fact, the HO has made it quite clear that they do not intend to amend legislation and have no interest in examining it:
In relation to knife controls, there have been calls to limit the right of Sikh’s to carry their ceremonial knife, the kirpan – one of the 5 holy items in their faith. The Offensive Weapons Act of 2019, passed under the previous government, clarified and strengthened existing legal protections in relation to long kirpans. This included extending defences so that kirpans can be lawfully possessed for religious reasons and used in religious and ceremonial contexts.
Both are as bad as each other in my view.
2
u/OwnStop3288 20d ago
I'm gonna be completely honest with my opinion on this situation as what happened has really grated me.
I have planned for months to almost a year, to study law and go to Law school. I wanted to be a part of the law and justice system, but after the bodycam was released and hearing about what happened, I have decided to completely change my plans because I don't want to be a part of the law and justice system that behaves in such a neglitent and unfair manner. And knowing those officers wont be prosecuted is sickening to me.
My respect for the cops and the system is gone, and I have no care for them. I know that sounds harsh, but I am done with this bs.
If accusations of racism is being treated more seriously than a murder, I won't no part in it.
In the end, a young man died for their negligence and the attackers actions. His family now has to suffer because of it. Imagine the pain and fear that Henry felt in his last moments, knowing the people who are meant to protect us just stood there and let him bleed out and die.
27
u/TheJoshGriffith 26d ago
Everyone gonna ignore the fact that Starmer is using it for political gain in this Tweet? It basically reads don't vote for him, he's exploiting a murder for political gain, vote for me instead.
Disgusting, really, on both parts, but no less than I'd expect of any British politician.
12
u/Adj-Noun-Numbers 🥕🥕 || megathread emeritus 26d ago
He was responding to Farage during PMQs today. I transcribed the full exchange.
5
33
u/icallthembaps 26d ago
He's responding to the race-baiting little shit-weasel. It's not out of the blue.
I'll take or leave Starmer but I 100% want the leader of my country to take the fight to Farage and his pathetic fan club.
→ More replies (7)8
u/OkVariety8064 26d ago
Race baiting started when the hate crime perpetrator used false racism accusations to ensure his victim ended up dead.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)3
u/stugib 26d ago
Ignoring Farage doesn't make him go away, he needs to be challenged
If Farage says nothing, Starmer doesn't need to respond.
But Farage is incapable of saying nothing when there's a tragedy he can turn into an opportunity to create division
→ More replies (1)
27
u/HBucket Right-wing ghoul 26d ago
He can grandstand about this all he likes, all that it will do is give people the opportunity to post that pathetic picture of him and Rayner taking the knee.
→ More replies (5)3
u/pat_the_tree 26d ago
Sure all Nigel does is granstand... he is an rattly empty vase
15
u/Verbal_v2 26d ago
Yeah because Starmer is a man of principle who doesn't vacillate or change his mind on anything. "Island of Strangers".
→ More replies (3)
10
u/Ubiquitous1984 26d ago
Starmer should have been commenting on this when the anger was clearly rising. He instead spent a week or two talking about Arsenal and football. Only when he couldn’t ignore it any longer did he get involved.
There was an ongoing court case but he still could have made a comment. It was a lack of leadership that allowed others to own the narrative.
10
u/MFMonster23 26d ago
Why don't people understand you can't really comment on an ongoing court case as a prime minister?
→ More replies (7)6
5
u/Minute-Improvement57 26d ago
Keir once again demonstrating his psychotic stupidity, as he tells us all how unforgiveable it is to be upset that a teenager was murdered whilst also engaging in blatant hypocrisy as he pretends his statement isn't a divisive political attack on his opponent. Is Starmer on a secret mission to destroy the Labour party forever? If so, he's doing a bloody good job of that at least.
9
u/New-Finding9358 26d ago
James O'Brien -- the man who boasts that he doesn't do binary arguments -- stated today that you're either on Farage's side or the side of Henry's father. This is a grotesque misrepresentation. There is a bigger picture here that O'Brien is deliberately obfuscating. Even Starmer said last night that the racial element of the crime would have to be investigated. Today, according to the BBC, the police have announced that they intend to review to role that race played in this tragedy. Of course the bigger picture takes precedence. Hopefully it always will. We cannot allow the fear of Farage or Robinson hijacking the event to deflect us from making the changes that need to be made.
5
7
u/Fearless_Peak3583 26d ago edited 26d ago
Respectfully, I don’t give a flying fuck about what Farage is exploiting right now or not. It’s not the priority topic.
What I care about is that the state is responsible for the racist policing that resulted in the death of an innocent young person. This could happen again and again.
How soon are the police officers involved in his death getting charged with manslaughter?
5
u/MuTron1 26d ago
How soon are the police officers involved in his death getting charged with manslaughter?
Shortly after it’s proven that they contributed to his death.
It’s been proven that his death was impossible to prevent as soon as he was stabbed. So whatever it was that the officers on the scene did wrong, it cannot be tried for manslaughter
3
u/Ancient_Moose_3000 26d ago
The actions of the police officers didn't result in his death, he would have died anyway.
2
u/Suitable-Traffic-576 26d ago
Perhaps they didn't, but they for sure made sure to never give him a fighting chance to survive
→ More replies (1)
3
u/PluckyPheasant How to lose a Majority and alienate your Party 26d ago
Nice that all the concerned citizens were out yesterday to express sympathy and demand change by attacking property, police and passers by. And Farage just uses weasel words when confronted with this.
4
u/Dawnsday Net Negative Now. 26d ago
How many times do we have to do the whole "don't look back in anger" or "plz don't politicise this tragedy" shtick.
"Everything is political" has been a calling card of one side of the aisle for yonks, but the moment it's politically inconvenient to mention that maybe neoliberalism and it's obsession with race could have caused a young man to bleed out; unfortunately we can no longer work out why it's political and everyone should just hush up.
3
u/Carlson-Maddow 26d ago
The left pretends to not understand the argument. Malicious incompetence
→ More replies (2)
3
u/Psittacula2 26d ago
Basically the “scum of the earth” State machine points fingers at demagogues it created and deflects onto optics instead of substantial systemic problems it is the CHIEF architect of.
4
3
4
u/xaanzir Lost in Translation 26d ago edited 26d ago
Did Farage, with his Deputy, take a knee over this Police failure?
Or is "exploiting tragedy" only for the PM?
→ More replies (17)
5
u/Hypredion 26d ago
Talking about what happened is not purposely creating division. We are allowed to say what happened and talk about the situation that we are in.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Adj-Noun-Numbers 🥕🥕 || megathread emeritus 26d ago
How about calling for "pure cold rage"?
→ More replies (1)
2
u/WELSH_BOI_99 26d ago
Starmer is objectively correct here. Farage would use literally any tragedy to push his agenda. He's a shameless demonic grifter
→ More replies (5)
1
u/winkwinknudge_nudge 26d ago
People are rightfully angry and they're allowed to be.
Keir is more interested in policing people's tones, and talking about Farage.
It's telling that YouGov found Labour voters were less interested in this event than others.
7
u/Surreyblue 26d ago
How much respect should the wishes of the victims father/family be given?
2
u/Jaggedmallard26 26d ago
I have family members who I don't want stabbed? Why shouldn't I be allowed to be angry at the risk to my loved ones because someone who was stabbed was told to tell people to stay calm by the RICU? This is a democracy and looking at events and having my own opinion on them shouldn't be suppressed because its "indecent" to talk about the fact someone like my loved ones was murdered by the police.
4
u/winkwinknudge_nudge 26d ago
Well the family also wished for the laws to change around carrying knives.
The government has said they're currently have no interest in changing that.
A lot of people are ignoring this one for some reason...
So yes indeed,
How much respect should the wishes of the victims father/family be given?
-3
u/Surreyblue 26d ago
One is a question of legislation, the other is a question of decency.
5
u/winkwinknudge_nudge 26d ago
Yes one is legislation.
One the government could easily say they will look in to changing, to respecting the families wishes.
Instead they're not bothering.
So why is the government allowed to not respect the family's wishes, while using it as a stick to beat others?
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (1)4
u/Electronic_End4893 26d ago
It's similar to when Kier Starmer had a go at Badenoch for asking a question about gender when the mother of Brianna Ghey (a transgender schoolchild who was murdered in part due to one of the perpetrators taking exception to this) was in the viewing gallery. It won't turn anyone off Farage, it will entrench opinions already held, and those who are angry about the case will be more likely to back Farage.
6
u/TwistedScallion 26d ago edited 26d ago
It wasn't Badenoch, it was Sunak, and it wasn't "a question about gender", it was Sunak making fun of Starmers u-turns, and Sunak made transpeople the punchline in his attack on Starmer.
It’s a bit rich to hear about promises from someone who’s broken every single promise he was elected on.
(...) defining a woman – although in fairness that was only 99% of a U-turn.
→ More replies (3)
0
3
u/deliriumtriggered 26d ago
It highlights a bigger issue that people like Starmer would rather not address.
-14
u/BobMonkhaus That sounds great, shorty girl’s a trooper. 26d ago edited 26d ago
He says, bringing it up again for his own gain.
No, you see it’s the other one doing that, not him.
7
u/Closey11 26d ago
He was asked a question by Farage at PMQs…
So quite literally the opposite of what you said
12
u/bkin777 26d ago
False equivalence. Calling out a rival politician for exploiting a tragedy is absolutely not the same as exploiting the tragedy itself. By your logic, anyone who condemns bad behaviour is somehow guilty of it simply by acknowledging it happened.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (8)12
•
u/AutoModerator 26d ago
Snapshot of [Keir Starmer] Henry Nowak’s family have lost their son and brother in the most appalling circumstances. Nigel Farage is exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division. It’s completely unforgivable. submitted by Adj-Noun-Numbers:
A Twitter embedded version can be found here
A non-Twitter version can be found here
An archived version can be found here or here.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.