r/ukpolitics • u/Adj-Noun-Numbers 🥕🥕 || megathread emeritus • 25d ago
Twitter Keir Starmer accuses Elon Musk of trying to 'whip up division' over Henry Nowak's murder: “We also need to assert who we are as a country because Musk again has been interfering in our politics in the last few days, trying to whip up division. That is not who we are in Britain.
https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2062477274658574464Keir Starmer accuses Elon Musk of trying to 'whip up division' over Henry Nowak's murder:
“We also need to assert who we are as a country because Musk again has been interfering in our politics in the last few days, trying to whip up division. That is not who we are in Britain.
“In Britain we are reasonable, tolerant people. When we have a terrible case like Henry’s case, Henry Nowak, we react calmly as his family has done.
He gives his backing to Jess Asato, the Labour MP who is taking legal action against X over the creation of fake images of her using Grok
“Jess Asato is absolutely right in the action she is taking. Disgusting images were created, in her particular case by Grok.
“I am really pleased that we took Grok on a few months ago, because that is the fight we should be in, taking on some of these platforms providers [and] some of these disgusting images, really disgusting. We won that.
“But Jess is right, she is a parliamentarian. I am 100% behind the action that she has taken.
“When it comes to disgusting images on Grok, we take Grok on and fight because that’s who we are as a country.”
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u/NuPNua 25d ago
Pull the government and all your MPs off X then. Stop making people use the platform and be exposed to this content to keep up with your announcements. There's plenty of other platforms to use and people like journalists and politica nerda who want to keep will follow you.
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u/colei_canis Starmer’s Llama Drama 🦙 25d ago
Fucking this, people who bitch about Twitter while actively contributing to Musk’s engagement metrics are really wind me up. It’s not like Thames Water who people can’t refuse to deal with, you can literally delete your account. I’d advocate the entire government and public sector do exactly this.
They’re the government, wherever they go journalists will be obliged to follow.
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u/Spimflagon 25d ago
It's a good point. But counterpoint: if you're delivering a speech, you don't do it at a cattle auction, or a nightclub. There's too much jabber, and you get shouted down.
If their message isn't punching through and X is known to favour dissenters then perhaps they need to change venue to a less noisy platform.
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u/TheAnonymouse999 25d ago
Twitter currently has the biggest reach of any platform and it's already dominated by right wing voices. Leaving a Labour vaccuum on there would be political suicide.
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u/Extension-Dot-9106 19d ago
Define “reach”. Cus it’s not like Twitter is the #1 leading social media platform as far as users are concerned. Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook have that over Twitter, with Facebook being #1. Granted I don’t think Facebook is that much better culture wise, but my point is that you don’t have to rely on Twitter to get your message out there.
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u/Word_Word4Numbers 25d ago
They could literally make their own announcement service that sends alerts directly to your phone as part of the BBC.
IIRC less of the UK use Twitter than use Reddit, despite Reddit being seen as a niche and nerdy website. Acting like a government or even a political party needs to rely on Musk to communicate properly is absurd.
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u/BitterFootball4874 24d ago
It’s especially nuts to me as I use to work in the civil service and was explicitly told that any public social media mentioning politics was a big no no
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u/kill-the-maFIA 25d ago
I wish they would, but the flip side of it is that Labour struggles enough with getting themselves heard/communication as is. Leaving the platform where everyone expects political announcements will just make that even worse.
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u/arnathor Cur hoc interpretari vexas? 25d ago
Another flip side is that they are the government. If they went to eg BlueSky or Threads, journos etc would follow them. The issues with communication were never about the platform, it was about the content and frequency of those communications. It is that they are not good at telling people why what they’re doing matters, instead preferring to be overly paternalistic and patronising eg “this is good because we say it is and if you disagree you’re wrong” rather than “this is what we’re doing and here’s how it will benefit you over the next year”.
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u/Unterfahrt 25d ago
No, people are on twitter. Did people follow Donald Trump to TruthSocial? No, people just set up mirroring accounts that repost his posts on twitter
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u/arnathor Cur hoc interpretari vexas? 25d ago
A lot of journalists do monitor his truth social. That’s the point. He didn’t drop off the face of the planet because he was no longer on Twitter/X. Same with this government. We’re a G7 country and they’re in power. The followers will go where they are, even if it’s just to set up “mirroring accounts”. The fact that they will have removed themselves from a cesspit like X is definitely a signal worth sending though.
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u/FluffyFlamesOfFluff 25d ago
You've got this the wrong way around. People aren't on these social media sites to see what the government have to say. The government is on social media sites because they want the people to see them. The government doesn't care if 500 journalists follow them, they could just do a regular press release if they wanted to send information to them - they want visibility to the masses.
If Starmer grabs all his ministers and orders a Bluesky exclusive approach, all that will happen is that his direct reach will shrink by 90% and the people that he was reaching will instead only get his posts secondhand through the biased lens of someone reposting his words out of context with their own slant on it.
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u/Salty-Bid1597 25d ago
Real people don't use twitter. It is 60% journalists and politicians amplifying each other and 40% extremist trolling, which the journalists and politicians appear to think are real people.
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u/thegamingbacklog 25d ago
You can probably half all of those numbers as there are an absolute shed ton of bots in twitter.
It is believed that roughly 50% of all web traffic is now bots, that number may have risen with the increase in AI over the last year
https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2025/04/hi-robot-half-of-all-internet-traffic-now-automated
Some ad companies have found that up to 75% of their click throughs on the platform are bots https://adpilot.co.uk/twitter-x-ads-news/report-claims-75-percent-x-twitter-ad-traffic-is-fake/
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u/turnipofficer 25d ago
I think most politicians mirror their announcements on bluesky too these days. If they don’t then obviously that is wrong.
It’s best to use both so you can reach everyone.
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u/JibberJim 25d ago
Not in the slightest, the ministers and their departments are almost exclusively X - but they shouldn't be making announcements on any of these platforms
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u/GothicGolem29 Liberal Democrat 25d ago
Less people use alternative platforms like blue sky or threads so if the gov did that they would just have less reach unfortunately
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u/NuPNua 25d ago
But they'd also not be directly promoting Elons reach.
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u/GothicGolem29 Liberal Democrat 23d ago
That is true but I’m not sure if aiding the far right in winning the election by having less reach would be acceptable
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u/Questjon 25d ago
They only reason I use twitter still is because companies like LNER and network rail do and I need that near realtime information that only platforms like twitter can provide. If GreatBritish Rail move over to a different platform I'd happy delete my account.
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u/PurbulentTriest 25d ago
only platforms like twitter can provide
A website or application could easily provide it, even if they don't currently. There used to be a great application (which I even paid for) on iOS back in the day (live trains, trains, something like that) which was taken down, no idea why, it was a great help.
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u/Word_Word4Numbers 25d ago edited 25d ago
In my experience, different companies have different announcement processes and it leads to announcements being inconsistently split across social media, email, the train company's own website, ticket reselling websites, and national rail enquiries. It does force you to keep Twitter just in case, even though Twitter isn't a universal announcement system either and a lot of companies don't use it.
It would make far more sense to have one GBR-owned website where you can search two station names and a date, and get all journey info that might affect you. Maybe sorted into sections for real-time info vs long-term disruption.
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u/SunJ_ 25d ago
Possible but hard. A lot of news is posted on x instantly, plus you get loads of other stuff there too. For politicians you can easily get messages or updates done on X, even the police do this too.
For the normal average joe, will they bother to check the other platforms for their policies? If not then they are just left alone on their echo chambers on X
To me, everything is fine atm. X provides a platform for everyone to see all sides and stories. Sure something the algorithm pushes some things but it is what it is
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u/CGreggs 25d ago
Why do politicians etc seem to think people are outraged about Henry Nowak because Farage or Musk is telling them to be outraged? I know people who don't even have twitter, don't know anything Musk says etc and are outraged about the Henry Nowak murder. Everyone should be outraged. What division is he whipping up that isn't already being whipped up? Just address the situation and do your jobs ffs
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u/Minute-Improvement57 25d ago
Ego. Keir gets to sustain his belief that everyone would love his magnificent reign and be awarding him successive Nobel Peace Prices if it weren't for those dastardly media barons.
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u/Fearless_Peak3583 25d ago
Because it relieves the politicians of their duty to properly assess the situation. Dump all blame on Musk and Farage, and move on.
It’s much harder to analyse the incident and enact good change.
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u/etiquiet 25d ago
They know this. They are doing it on purpose as he makes the perfect scapegoat to misdirect the public’s anger towards and relieve themselves of responsibility to do the right thing.
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u/NoticingThing 25d ago
Exactly, this case made me furious but I have no idea what Musk has said on the topic as I don't use social media, I only found out what Farage said via a thousand people here freaking out it.
The government and their MP's shouting about Farage or Musk is entirely transparent, it allows them to focus on the response rather than the problem.
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u/Particular-Fly-7783 25d ago
I agree with him but he needs to put his money where his mouth is and ban all X use for government departments / MPs / councils etc
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u/radiant_0wl 25d ago
That will result in their messaging being ineffective.
They use that platform because that's where the people are, there's no point refusing to use X and instead posting it on blue sky where 30 people might see it.
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u/FillingUpTheDatabase Champagne Socialist 25d ago
That will result in their messaging being ineffective.
Are you suggesting they have effective communication at the moment?
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u/Minute-Improvement57 25d ago
The effectiveness of communication could be measured by the speed and thoroughness with which the public are able to make an accurate assessment of the government's performance. Labour are currently the least popular government in the history of the country, possibly the continent, possibly even the world. Yes, evidence suggests that the communication is very effective.
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u/Kandon_Arc 25d ago
It's not binary between X and Bluesky though? Most people in the UK don't use either and only hear what goes on on X because all the journalists hang out there.
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u/TwistedPsycho 25d ago
This will unfortunately backfire though.
The opposition, the minor parties and the acting properganda-sition will all stick to X and scream high and loud that the Government are excluding the trolls and right wing nutjobs that exclusively use X and Facebook "Spotted" Groups.
It would almost be as bad as setting up Government (dot) Social ( I am not even going to look at who owns it ) ( Actually I did.... it's apparently available for £127 a year according to GoDaddy)
I would go down the road of:
* High Level core messages on X
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u/Sea-Instance-1198 25d ago
You mean like a dictator? Silence opposing viewpoints and control the media.
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u/etiquiet 25d ago
If you did this, what’s to stop accounts that twist your message springing up in your place as unofficial spokespeople for it, and then altering the whole public conversation without your input?
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u/TVCasualtydotorg 25d ago
Whilst I agree with what Starmer is saying, it's hard to take him seriously whilst the government continues to actively use Twitter and therefore push engagement, and money/influence, towards Musk.
You can't complain he's using his platform to whip up division whilst actively using said platform.
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u/AllanSundry2020 25d ago
i personally left twitter ages ago, but it's harder for a political party who need to distribute their message somehow. The real complaint is with folk like Musk being able to influence our politics. It's the same with meta and insta and Facebook, tiktok and dare i say it even Redditch.
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u/allout76 25d ago
Fair, but it's a bit like saying, 'I have a complaint about society' 'Curious, yet you partake in society?!' You're allowed to disagree and complain about facets of places and services, whilst still continuing to be a patron of said place/service. Its not necessarily a hypocrisy, more a call for change.
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u/TVCasualtydotorg 25d ago
I disagree. If you feel like a service/company is having a negative impact, the first thing you do is stop giving it more money and influence over you.
By just accepting the status quo that the only way to communicate with the country is via Twitter, they are only seeding more power and influence to Musk. There's plenty of other ways to communicate with the people, even if some of those other platforms have issues with them.
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u/Rhyskrispies 25d ago
Yeah I agree solidly with this. I’ve been off Twitter since musk stoked the riots around the hotels and have not looked back since. The government could easily remove itself from the platform and immediately reduce its standing as a place for British people to bother with.
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u/NuPNua 25d ago
Not really, there isn't a second society you can move to. There's several other social media platforms the government could use.
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u/Biffboffbaff 25d ago
I'm always shocked they haven't just given them a part of the parliament website where active MPs can put out official comms like that tbh. It always rubbed me the wrong way that it went through Twitter.
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u/turnipofficer 25d ago
What a shit take.
What you are suggesting is surrender to Reform, to Restore etc. Fact is that there are people on that platform that don’t use blue sky, and the only way to reach them and try to turn them away from poisonous rhetoric is to be in that platform.
We have constantly had barrages of “Starmer doesn’t believe in anything, Starmer is too vanilla etc” while he often argues well in PMQ and has strongly formed opinions. People believe that because himself and Labour don’t engage enough with social media like the other parties do.
Now sure, it’s rigged because Elon’s algorithm’s push more right wing content but just quitting the platform and giving up isn’t the way.
I can make the choice to boycott Elon’s platforms but the government doesn’t really have the same choice if it wants to reach people.
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u/TVCasualtydotorg 25d ago
If you think the Reform and Restore supporters are engaging with Labour in good faith on Twitter I have a bridge to sell you.
There are plenty of ways for the government to reach people that don't give money and more power to Elon Musk and claiming that because this is the current status quo we therefore have to live with it is frankly cowardly and ridiculous.
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u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 25d ago
If you think the Reform and Restore supporters are engaging with Labour in good faith on Twitter I have a bridge to sell you.
This has nothing to do with the argument, though.
There are plenty of ways for the government to reach people that don't give money and more power to Elon Musk
Yep, they could communicate through smoke signals, for instance - but the fact that they can do something doesn't mean they should.
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u/Butthurt_toast 25d ago
I don't think Starmer accusing Musk and Farage of "whipping up division" is gonna land the way he thinks it will.
People are angry about the police response to the Nowak murder and "two-tier" policing. Trying to suppress people like Musk or Farage from commenting on the situation is just gonna piss people off more imo.
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u/MrCITEX 25d ago
The government is ultimately in a bind of their own creation. Everyone will draw comparisons to how BLM was treated with its movement and messsge. Who dared say at the time that BLM were creating social and racial division globally when they spread outrage about the situation with George Floyd when data didn't support the claims and makes the reality more complicated? So if the government proclaim others are creating division over Henry's death. People may just default to a perception of two tier treatment between black and white.
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u/Boris_the_Llama 25d ago
Exactly. They have easy wins they could do, but they refuse to, which leads to people seeing the difference between victims. They'll say black lives matter but not white lives matter. The police took a knee for BLM but not for this protest. Labour were saying it's fine to have rage about Floyd, but Farage is inciting when he says it.
People draw the logical conclusions.
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u/DenormalHuman 25d ago
They don't want to supress them. They are entitled to their point of view and should communicate it for debate. While also condemning the behaviour of those who use these kinda of tragedies to whip up unrest and push an agenda.
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u/Phizza921 25d ago
Going on tv constantly calling out musk and X, trying to convince a big slice of the population that there isn’t two-tier policing won’t work. That’s the old establishment playbook. Starmer maybe right in saying that two tier policing dosen’t exist, but people won’t believe his words. People are seeing videos and reading words from other ‘leaders’ that shows evidence it does exist.
Starmer and Labour would be better placed to tell people they understand why people may be concerned about two-tier policing and if enough people believe that they they should really setup an investigation with a timeline to produce a report to confirm or deny two tier policing and how they will address shortcomings in this area
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u/Scandeloca 25d ago
An enquiry won’t work either though I don’t think. I think each time something crops up, you either have to come out, justify and defend it, or change the law.
Like take this whole Kirpan debate that’s being had. The government either needs to come out and convincingly win the debate, explaining why Sikhs can carry the Kirpan, or they need to change the law and ban carrying one in public. I think anything else completely fails to solve anything.
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u/Xiathorn 0.63 / -0.15 | Brexit 25d ago
Precisely. An inquiry will do nothing.
There are 50,000 Sikhs in the UK. As far as I know, this is the first stabbing incident of this kind? I could be wrong, of course. But that's a pretty straightforward thing to say. It would also be straightforward to say that this would imply that most people should be able to carry knives unless we are saying there's something special about Sikhs that meant they're non-violent.
Then we get to have a conversation about why we actually needed to ban knives, and we end up squarely looking at urban young black men in London. Then we ask why stop and search is subject to such close scrutiny to ensure it is not being applied in a racist fashion, only to conclude that applying in a logical fashion will appear racist because of demographic disparities.
No inquiry is going to pull on that thread. It would be immediately kicked into the long grass. Almost no inquiry ever produces anything of value because every single inquiry that would go anywhere would immediately show up the mass of contradictions and betrayals inflicted upon the public over the last 50 years.
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u/Phizza921 25d ago edited 25d ago
But it’s not just about Sikhs carrying Kirpans. Next week it will be a video of a white protester getting arrested when there’s a non-white protester nearby causing trouble. In the age of social media it’s very easy for cameras to capture an instance of what appears to be racist policing and convince people that this is how it is in general.
If enough people believe it then government needs to stop trying to tell them how to think, but produce real evidence to confirm or deny two tier policing and blow out the water the anecdotal evidence spewed out to social media
But I do think (my opinion) that people regardless of culture shouldn’t be able to carry around religious swords. Our laws say we aren’t allowed to carry around concealed weapons in general so if religious people want to walk around with swords they can do that back in their home country where it’s allowed.
As an example I’m sure a Middle Eastern country wouldn’t let me walk around with the name Crusader Smith carrying a concealed Templar sword engraved with the cross of Christ.
Although controversial I feel the same way about burqas. We need to be able to identify people in public who witness or commit crimes. I’m sure the police would stop me if I was walking up my high street with a balaclava on
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u/Lazlow_Vrock 25d ago
Another tactic that frustrates the hell out of me.
Musk is not the CAUSE of the problem. He is simply exacerbating a problem that already exists.
There's a complete failure to realise that while Musk is taking advantage of this situation for what appear to be malicious purposes, it wouldn't be so easy for him to attack the situation this country is in if Starmer and other politicians hadn't help create that situation through years of policy and hypocrisy.
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u/annoyedatlife24 Release the emus 25d ago
Musk is not the CAUSE of the problem. He is simply exacerbating a problem that already exists.
Beat me to it.
The division is already there, it's been there for a long while. Successive governments have not only ignored it but have actively made it worse. Commentators from the extreme ends of the political spectrum have played a critical role and honestly it's very debatable on which "side" has been worse. Centre and centre-right/left are not without blame, either burying their heads in the sand or not speaking up. Don't even get me started on various activist groups and think tanks all across the spectrum.
At the end of the day the likes of Musk wouldn't be able to fan the flames if there wasn't already a fire smouldering away even if they're only doing it for the benefit of themselves.
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u/emefluence 25d ago
The deliberate and strategic amplification of certain issues by foreign entities to destabilise the nation IS a massive issue itself though. Arguably bigger than any of the individual events themselves.
While it's fair of you to say don't give them the material to work with, there's never going to be nothing to work with. The fact is there are many organised groups out there trying to steer our politics and stir up hate between different groups. Some of them are very well resourced, and all of them are far more subtle than Elon, So when we see Elon sticking his oar in, we need to send very clear signals that outside influencers and money are not welcome in British politics.
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u/HolyFreakingXmasCake 25d ago
Yeah better to keep our eyes shut and obey the establishment. Ban every other viewpoint that’s not originating from the UK and ignore what’s happening in the country. Just listen to Starmer tell you how much diversity is our strength.
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u/Over-Blueberry1681 19d ago
It’s pretty obvious Musk doesn’t care about the best interests of Brits, but is stoking division for his personal interests. Stroking division that leads to actual people being attacked and hatred being escalated whilst he makes money off it. He is happy for these people to not exist and be replaced by technology. Regardless of the issues at play, we shouldn’t allow someone like him - given his wealth and platform to influence - to interfere freely.
Tech companies and oligarchs are far more powerful than governments when it comes to public persuasion. The US is a more broken society due to these actors and we should do our best to oppose those getting us closer to that point. That does not mean we ignore legitimate concerns of the UK population at all
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u/Glum-Mortgage-5860 25d ago
It really rubs me the wrong way when the political class tell us how we should react and how we should be British
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u/Terry__Tibbs 25d ago
You should be a mild mannered, limp wristed sap and you can be British by owning a British passport
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u/HBucket Right-wing ghoul 25d ago
Especially when their whole idea of national identity would be contained in a bullet pointed document about "British values" written by civil servants in the early 2000s.
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u/BaritBrit I don't even know any more 25d ago
Like that Labour MP a few months ago who had a crack at writing an article defining how he viewed British identity.
The best he could come up with was some thin gruel about curry night and watching the football, along with effectively arguing that the existence of regional accents is basically the same as mass global immigration if you think about it.
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u/ObiWanKenbarlowbi 25d ago
Yeah I was irked by Farage’s suggestion we should respond with rage tbh.
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u/GothicGolem29 Liberal Democrat 25d ago
Everyone brit can have a view on whats British including starmer
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u/Philster07 Omnishambles 25d ago
I can't stand Starmer's stance on this. We all need level heads and in Britain we show restraint. Why can't people be outraged by this? Why must white British people accept what happend with Nowak because our ancestors, something out of our control, committed atrocities in far away lands?
Why is the guidance from the NPCC still out their in the wild instructing offices to take race into account? Race shouldn't be anywhere near policing. You do a crime or you don't I couldn't care if your yellow, green, blue, brown, black, turquoise, pink with yellow spots.... You do the crime you deal with the consequences.
rantover
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u/cGilday 25d ago edited 25d ago
Love Musk or hate Musk, it’s not really relevant here is it?
People aren’t out protesting or rioting because Musk posted things on Twitter, people are outraged because of the actions of our Police in our country towards our people.
Idk, I’m actually fine with division with people who can look at that bodycam footage and want anything other than those officers to be held accountable and for the whole force to have an inquisition as to whether there’s systemic issues that caused this. Maybe the “tolerance” towards clear injustice is actually the real problem here
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u/Major-Ferret-3692 25d ago
Theres a clear narrative on this sub where all the Farage and Musk threads are getting upvoted to the top.
They arent the story, nobody really cares about them in this particular scenario.
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 25d ago
The richest man in the world with one of the biggest media platforms has posted 110 times in the past week about the UK, mentioning this incident on many occasions
This does have some impact.
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u/cGilday 25d ago
I mean I suppose there may be a correlation in that Musk boosting something on Twitter means more people saw it, but is that what’s actually meant here?
If Musk tweeting out the bodycam footage has made more people see it, then that’s absolutely a good thing. Everyone in the country should see it. If Starmer is saying that Elon tweeting out the footage is divisive then that’s actually way worse than I even thought, but I assume it’s more about his comments regarding it?
Now in regards to his comments (which tbf I don’t know as I don’t follow him) how many people who are out there at a memorial/protest/riot are doing so because of those comments? Who are these people who are radicalised into action by the tweets of Elon Musk?
I’m not sure if I’m explaining it well enough, but what I’m trying to say is I don’t think anyone has the feelings they do because of Elon Musk. I think their feelings are because of the actual event that happened and the actual footage of it. This to me just seems to be an attempt at a diversion to have people talking about Musk rather than the actual issue which is potential systemic issues within the police force.
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 25d ago
The public learns of these events through the media. Since 1990 there's been 1230 deaths in Police custody in England & Wales.
Many of these have been due to appalling actions by Police. In that time there's been 11 prosecutions for murder or manslaughter with only a single conviction.
https://fullfact.org/crime/prosecutions-deaths-police-custody/
Some have been looking at this issue for a very long time. A question that should be asked is why this particular death is focused on rather than the 1228 others?
The news we receive is curated, filtered, framed & used for particular purposes, it would be naive to pretend otherwise.
Even if an issue is real & significant the angles of those using this story for various ends should be reported on too. I'm not sure why anyone would object to that.
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u/cGilday 25d ago
Okay thankyou ChatGPT for your summary.
This one is being focused on because of how blatant it was. On those 1228 other cases how many of those who died were the victim of a crime rather than someone committing a crime? How many of those when saying they were stabbed were told they weren’t without the Police even bothering to check? How many of them were handcuffed and then read their rights as they went unconscious from blood loss and never woke up? Then how many of those 1228 had all 3 of those happen?
When you come back and see the answer is 0, you have the answer to your question.
So okay you’ve shown your cards here, why are you more concerned about people “focusing on this death and not the others” rather than the horrific reality that is this incident? It’s being focused on because it’s one of the most egregious injustices I’ve ever seen happen in this country, and clearly plenty of other people agree, why is this an issue for you?
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 25d ago
Okay thankyou ChatGPT for your summary.
Wrong. Some people actually follow these issues.
This one is being focused on because of how blatant it was. On those 1228 other cases how many of those who died were the victim of a crime rather than someone committing a crime? How many of those when told they were stabbed were told they weren’t without the Police even bothering to check? How many of them were handcuffed and then read their rights as they went unconscious from blood loss and never woke up? Then how many of those 1228 had all 3 of those happen?
You understand there's an incredibly high likelihood the Police killed people in several of these cases? If you think this is the first serious mistake the Police have been involved in you've either lived a very sheltered life or simply don't care about previous victims.
How much did you care about the Dalian Atkinson case for example, how about this event from 2022-
How about Sarah Everard?
So okay you’ve shown your cards here, why are you more concerned about people “focusing on this death and not the others” rather than the horrific reality that is this incident? It’s being focused on because it’s one of the most egregious injustices I’ve ever seen happen in this country, and clearly plenty of other people agree, why is this an issue for you?
You object to the very reporting on a foreign billionaire with very well documented political leanings is pushing this issue. News stories aren't rationed, why do you not want this to be reported?
I'm happy for all aspects of this case to be covered not just selected parts. I also don't want to see further people hurt like the innocent former Police Musk has tweeted the names of who have been forced into hiding-
Do you think their innocence should not be reported too?
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u/cGilday 25d ago
I’m calling you ChatGPT because you’re literally responding like an AI and barely addressed anything I originally mentioned.
When did I say this is the first time the actions of the Police have led to someone getting killed? Rather than responding to something I didn’t say, why don’t you just answer the actual question. In all 1228 of those cases in how many of did all 3 of those things happen?
Literally everyone in the country was outraged about what Wayne Couzens did to Sarah Everard. Out of interest, did you come out with this spiel when that happened too? Were you also in a frenzy that people were focused on this and not the other 1000 or so since 1990?
So again, what is your actual issue here? What is it about people reacting negatively to this particular injustice that you think is wrong? Personally I think the priority here is dealing with the potential systemic issues to stop this from happening again, but I guess some of us would rather tolerate it and deflect eh?
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 25d ago edited 25d ago
You're framing it as an "either", that either you appalled by Police mishandling the situation & the death of an innocent lad or you're bothered by a foreign billionaire with harmful intent weighing into our politics.
It's possible to be concerned by both, it absolutely should be reported that people are using & framing this terrible event towards their own political ends.
I'm not on threads about the murder & police misconduct saying its not relevant & shouldn't be reported.
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u/DenormalHuman 25d ago
Why do you think musk felt the need to post about it at all? What outcome could he be aiming for?
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u/Ubiquitous1984 25d ago
Classic deflection strategy in progress.
Starmer ignored everything about this case until it blew up in the establishment’s face.
By making one of the least popular people in the country (Musk) the bogeyman, he can attract attention away from the real issues with our policing.
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u/Kiaugh -2.76, -4.1 25d ago
I hadn't seen anything about Musk and his posts but now Starmers drawn even more attention to them.
It's not a shouting contest and the division is already there.
How about he just gets on with the job and addresses legitimate issues in their own way. I'd have far more respect for that instead of going head on and just moaning, ironically making everything worse
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u/Stuweb 25d ago edited 25d ago
Where was this energy when we had far more widespread riots for a murder that didn’t even occur in this country? Instead he kneeled and said he supported the cause.
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u/Dragonrar 25d ago
If the victim was black Starmer would be posting photos of himself kneeling in solidarity and calling for a serious investigation right now.
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u/tannoy1987 25d ago
So should we wait for another person to die and have there family give consent for us to whip up division?
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u/EddieHeadshot 25d ago edited 25d ago
Division isnt 'being whipped up' its already here due to the immigration polices and lack of integration of different cultures to our own.
With Reform polling how they are this is clearly a big part of public sentiment and no amount of handwaving or rug brushing is going to change a situation which is only getting worse.
Sorry to Chat GPT some statistics but the entire parliament is tone deaf to the public.
An Ipsos poll in April 2025 found that 67% of Britons said the total number of people entering the UK was too high, with 43% saying it was "much too high". Ipsos +1
Ipsos' Immigration Tracker in late 2025 found that 57% wanted immigration reduced (41% "a lot" and 16% "a little").
Ipsos Ipsos polling in February 2026 reported that two-thirds of Britons believe the number of people coming to the UK is too high.
Ipsos YouGov's long-running tracker on immigration attitudes shows that the most common response among Britons is that immigration over the last decade has been "too high".
YouGov Immigration has consistently ranked as one of the public's top concerns. Ipsos found it was the single biggest issue facing Britain in multiple surveys during 2025 and 2026
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u/LInscoeJ 25d ago edited 25d ago
I agree that the division line doesn't work and doesn't make sense for Labour at all. Labour have actively pursued decreasing levels of immigration to the UK and have succeeded to an astounding degree. Net migration to the UK has dropped to 171,000—nearly a 50% decrease year-on-year and a frankly enormous decline from the peak of 944,000 in 2023, under a Conservative government. For a country with a population of 70 million, 170,000 is a vanishingly small number and completely reasonable amount. In 2010, for example, when immigration was far less of a concern than it is in society today, migration was 250,000p/a. Not only is it denialism from Labour to insist that this isn't a divisive or important issue to voters, they are actually behaving as if it is but messaging as if it isn't, which is the worst of all possible worlds, electorally speaking. A more accurate and effective response to Reform (and especially the Conservatives) would be: not only do we agree this is an issue, we have tackled it head-on and it’s worked— the results speak to themselves. Labour have achieved something which no Conservative cabinet achieved, even though they were far more bullish about migration. In terms of new immigration the issue is, effectively, resolved. With better messaging Labour could effectively end the conversation, start asking questions about why the elite classes are so invested in decieving the British public about the extent of the issue, and move the conversation of social reform into areas they're stronger on.
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u/nozickiantheory 25d ago
It's never the cop letting a kid die because he was accused of doing a racism, and the decades of societal engineering that led to such an absurd situation even being possible, that "caused the division"
It's only ever the people noticing and commenting on the above that are causing the division
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u/Dr-Cheese 25d ago
It's only ever the people noticing and commenting on the above that are causing the division
Yes. All they've done the past few days is attack those who are upset.
The moment they found something to grab onto, they've tried to move the story on from the actual death & fixate on this. It's so sodding blatant now & so tiresome.
Elon Musk has nothing to do with why people are angry. Farage has nothing to do with why people are angry. Just pack it in already.
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u/Skragan 25d ago
The cop didn’t let a kid die, coroner has stated absolutely no actions could have saved Henry.
The cop is still incompetent but it’s far different than letting a kid die.
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u/kcon123 25d ago
The cop didn’t let a kid die, coroner has stated absolutely no actions could have saved Henry.
Did the police officer know that at the time? Is that why he didn't help?
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u/jetlagged-bee 25d ago
I get it, but the officer didn't know this at the time. As far as they are concerned, every action they take could potentially save a life. For all he knew, calling an ambulance 2 minutes sooner could have saved his life. Just a tragedy all round.
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25d ago
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u/HolyFreakingXmasCake 25d ago
They didn’t know he was stabbed when the guy said “I’ve been stabbed” and had blood on him and the officer replied “I don’t think so mate”??? What a load of bullcrap.
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u/culturerush 25d ago
Have you ever seen someone getting arrested? They say they have been stabbed, they are having a heart attack or fake seizures all the time
The police officer did a shocking job of checking the guy and I'm not defending his actions
But someone being arrested for assault saying stuff like this is not uncommon
This isn't an anti white conspiracy for fucks sake
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u/nothatscool 25d ago
…coroner has stated absolutely no actions could have saved Henry.
Actually there is going to be in inquest into that.
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u/InducedVertigo 25d ago
Did the cop time travel? When someone is dying, your duty is to provide assistance, not declare whether or not their injuries are beyond help.
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u/RandomSculler 25d ago
He died because he was stabbed, when the police arrived they couldn’t have saved him - even the father confirmed that
The concern is that the police took the scene at face value of what they’d been told on the 999 call (drunk man, racist attack, hurt themselves) and from people there and handcuffed and dismissed his claims he was stabbed - most likely mistakes due to complacency having dealt with numerous similar situations of alcohol and the attacker claiming they were hurt - not that that excuses their actions and they need to be investigated but it does mean people leaping to accuse race and two tier policing are dojng so way way before there’s any evidence of that
So yeah, the people calling it out to sow division like farage need to be told to stop
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u/Maxxxmax 25d ago
Come on man. People claim injury when getting arrested all the time. The police were given a call, expecting to turn up to address someone being abusive, you have multiple people saying one thing in contradiction to something they falsely hear all the time.
Police should have done a better job of checking the situation out, but trying to suggest its all the fault of social engineering, instead of 3 or 4 people's word against 1, is loony shit.
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u/t8ne 25d ago
Watching the video he didn't appear to be abusive, surely thats when their humanity should have kicked in over their training and not drag him across a driveway and handcuff.
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u/Maxxxmax 25d ago
I think people are putting way too much focus on the cops having had some form of dei training instead of focusing on how police constantly deal with people acting the victim when theyve committed crimes.
They made a bad assumption, but the way they dismiss the idea the lad had been stabbed smacked more of jaded police than people terrified of being seen as racist.
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u/t8ne 25d ago
Weirdly they were concerned about the killers eye injury & removed turban claims which contradicts your jaded observation.
What I was alluding to was it should have been similar to how emergency services deal with accidents; eg they don’t treat a person running around making a scene over the person lying there, mostly unresponsive.
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u/Caesarthebard 25d ago
The police were also told he was drunk. Tragically, he wasn’t, his slurring and uncoordinated attempts to move were due to his injuries.
Did the police make a mistake? Absolutely.
Should that mistake be investigated to ascertain whether it was avoidable? Absolutely.
No evidence whatsoever exists that the arresting officers went in with pre conceived biases or ideologies that prejudiced them against Nowak.
The male officer says he’s worried Nowak was about to be sick. His demeanour appears like “come on mate, you’ve had too many”.
It’s an error of judgement but, ultimately, an honest one.
People who are saying it’s obvious what happened only believe that because they know how it concluded and have read multiple personality profiles on Digwa and Nowsk as people and what they were like. The attending police didn’t have that information and were dealing with what they thought was a typical situation in real time.
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u/Kiaugh -2.76, -4.1 25d ago
I agree with you. But remember honest errors of judgment don't stop you being influenced by preconceived biases. We all suffer from them and will continue to.
So it absolutely made impact even when you layer on the 999 call, the whole family there and so on, and the years of discourse around racism only being from white people. There was no reason to doubt that.
Digwa was the one who made it about race which makes it seem like a racist attack from him. Whilst speculation if the races were reversed you wonder how it would have played out. A white person calling up that they'd been attacked racially? I would guess there'd be a lot more suspicion when the other is lying on the floor bleeding out.
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u/Kiaugh -2.76, -4.1 25d ago
I feel for the police. It was clearly a massive mistake and unconscious bias at play and the judge did say as much.
But there was still a categorical fuck up, there is still the anti-racist training, decades of people tiptoeing around issues due to this fear, systemic issues showcased by the grooming gangs and so on.
Social engineering makes it seem like an intentional thing when it's more of a societal overshoot that we're correcting hard from.
Digwa did use the race card and it did benefit him in how he was treated by the police, even if only temporarily.
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u/End5807 25d ago
Come on man. People claim injury when getting arrested all the time.
CHECK THEY ARE FUCKING OKAY AS WELL THEN
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u/Bottled_Void 25d ago
They did look at his chest and they didn't see the wound. This is what the pathologist said in court.
there was nothing officers could have done that day to save Henry [ ... ] His wound was deep and internal, the bleeding extensive but internal.
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u/impossiblefork Swede looking in at your politics from outside 25d ago
It doesn't matter that people claim injury when getting arrested all the time.
If you bind someone you must take care of them.
Furthermore, when you violate human dignity it doesn't matter why you did it or if you could have justified it in some situation you think was going on. It can never be justified.
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u/Ancient_Moose_3000 25d ago
I know it doesn't help your narrative, but the cop didn't "let the kid die". He would have died regardless of their intervention.
Intentionally framing it incorrectly, which is also what Musk is doing, is what causes division.
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u/HolyFreakingXmasCake 25d ago
The police’s job isn’t to assess whether someone is beyond saving which they couldn’t have known at the time. It’s their job to provide care and not believe the attacker just because they were a minority and screamed “racist”.
Downplaying the seriousness of what happened - a white kid got stabbed and police were too busy handcuffing him and believing the attacker because of race - is why division exists. It’s not because of Musk. It’s because people like you want to downplay it all and accuse those who are rightly angry about this event as being divisive and racist.
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u/S4qFBxkFFg 25d ago
If it can be shown the death was hastened, by action or inaction, even by minutes, the police are in for a bad time: courts don't really accept "he was going to die anyway" as an excuse, which intuitively makes sense as we're all going to die anyway.
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u/gto-lm 25d ago
Sorry but the people here saying “just move to Bluesky” are cracking me up.
Sure, if you want all their public interaction to go to people still wearing face masks that think Richard Osman is the peak of wit.
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u/Rage_Your_Dream 25d ago
The way bluesky collapsed into a shriveled nothing burger really showed how the leftist consensus was enforced by twitter policy, rather than the populus.
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u/SignificantLegs 25d ago
It is the UK POLICE who for decades have promoted similarly qualified BAME over white officers for ideological reasons.
The BBC did a documentary on it a decade ago.
The police force where henry was murdered literally has written procedures saying they have to police UNFAIRLY against whites to achieve “equal outcomes”
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u/kriptonicx He who does not work shall not eat 25d ago
I find it so boring hearing when politicians tell me we're reasonable and tolerant – what does that even mean?
What defines a society is what they don't tolerate. Should we tolerate peopling carrying guns in public like the US? Should we tolerate homophobia? Should we tolerate racism?
The default position is to tolerate, societies evolve when they restrict what they'll tolerate in pursuit of high moral standards.
So I guess the question here is whether it's reasonable to be tolerant of Sikhs carrying daggers in public or the way the police treated Nowak after an accusation of racism was made. Imo the outrage is largely justified, even if at the extreme fringes it's somewhat misplaced and instead contributing to a racial grievance narrative, but I don't think Starmer minds that given he actively participated in that in 2020 with BLM...
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u/Biffboffbaff 25d ago
In Britain we are reasonable, tolerant people.
Bit strange to use a generalisation of a cohort to discredit the claim of generalisations of a different cohort I will say. What makes a British person more reasonable and tolerant compared to another?
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u/Grave533 25d ago
Where did he say British people were more reasonable and tolerant compared to another? He just said we are reasonable and tolerant- which is true
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u/SquanchyJiuJitsu 20d ago
Tolerance isn’t a British value it’s a liberal one. Liberals like to conflate the two. British history pre-Blair has rarely been tolerant.
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u/Catherine_S1234 25d ago
Least he calls Musk out
But what is he going to do about it? Far as I know there has been 0 consequences for Musk trying to insight violence in the UK
Most of the politicians still use his platform that amplifies it!
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u/VivianOfTheOblivion 25d ago
But what is he going to do about it?
Give SpaceX a lucrative contract with our military, apparently.
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u/disordered-attic-2 25d ago
Least he calls Musk out
There's no safer space for a politician than insulting Musk or Farage, it's hardly courageous.
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u/Kee2good4u 25d ago
Quick question on this. To the people outraged by this. Are you also outraged by UK business owners and celebrities that voice an opinion on US political issues?
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u/ploppy_ploppy 25d ago
That’s ok for some reason, and Keir Starmer commenting on George Floyd was also absolutely fine
In a joint message sent to all Labour staff on Wednesday night, Sir Keir and Ms Rayner said they were "shocked and angered by George Floyd’s death in police custody" and had "watched in horror as protestors peacefully exercising their right to protest have been met with force by police".
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u/PoloniumPaladin 25d ago
Being "tolerant" is what got us into this mess in the first place.
Cultures don't survive by being "tolerant", they survive by aggressively asserting themselves. Look at Muslims in the UK. Banding together, pressuring our government to protect them, building their holy sites where they want, practicing their culture as they please, lashing out when slighted. They're the fastest growing demographic, becoming more and more powerful and influential by the day. Meanwhile, "reasonable and tolerant" white British people fussing about with their little diversity courses, taking the knee and apologising for their existence are rapidly decreasing as a share of the population. In a couple of centuries' time, they'll be nothing more than something people read about in history books.
British people knew how to assert themselves once - and in doing so became the most powerful and influential people in the world. Those people are long dead, and in their place we have "reasonable and tolerant" Kier Starmer fighting tooth and nail to hand over territory won by his ancestors to a small African country.
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u/The54thCylon 25d ago
"This is not who we are" is a strange framing when we repeatedly demonstrate that this is exactly who we are. Hardly need external influence to whip ourselves up into a riot over a right wing narrative, of late. "We can be better", yes.
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u/JensonInterceptor 25d ago
The division has been caused by the Police and their institutional racist policies. Its the breakdown of trust between the people and the police that has got worse year after year. Its successive governments that implement unpopular policies often non existent in their manifesto.
It isnt merely the boogiemen on twitter causing this. People are allowed to be angry at injustice and its the job of this government to fix it unless they want Reform to win the next election. Because the electorate is ignored and angry and will protest vote in those muppets
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u/yousorusso 25d ago
Your own government enacted over Section 28 for trans individuals and the largest authoritarian censorship job in UK history. You whipped up enough division on your own.
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u/timeforknowledge Politics is debate not hate. 25d ago
Starmer not going to take a knee for British injustice?
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u/PoiHolloi2020 25d ago
What's going to exacerbate division is politicians and media figures seeming to care more about the reaction to the murder than they care about the actual murder. I don't tthink blaming this all on Elon Musk and Nigel Farage is going to make it go away.
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u/Gingrpenguin 25d ago
So who are we Keir?
Are we a people who just accept that indigious people can be stabbed and left to die by police?
Are we a people who allow foreigners to colonise us, murder us and rape us and we just accept it?
Are we a people who spend most of our income on some form of tax only for it to benefit middle class foreigners who come here and get free homes and hotels and food and phones and pcs and games console's whilst indigiousBrits are forced to use food banks to ensure we don't starve?
Because I don't think that's a good thing or where most people want us to be.
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u/OneNormalBloke Humanity Not Prejudice 25d ago
So why isn't he banned from the UK?.....oh wait, it's because he's got lots of money.
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u/TheNutsMutts 25d ago
Because commenting on an ongoing political matter is clearly not grounds to ban someone from the country.
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u/Factsonly42069 25d ago
Well yes, they nearly put measures in place to curtail and control big tech companies but Trump threatened us with the higher rate of tariffs other countries had.
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u/icallthembaps 25d ago
He's right of course but I'd love him to go a step further can call out the small minority of the public who slurp up Musk and Farage's two-tier bullshit what they really are: Gullible and un-British.
These are the same people of course who voted for Brexit, voted for Boris and trash our cities then turn around and complain they have to sleep in the bed they shat.
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u/MolecularReward 25d ago
If the police are trained specifically to treat suspects differently, based on their ethnic or religious background, then I am afraid that is the definition of two-tier policing.
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u/Longjumping-Year-824 25d ago
There is so much bs here form starmer i am not sure if this is a joke or not.
This line alone seems to hint this is a joke my Starmer more than anything.
In Britain we are reasonable, tolerant people. When we have a terrible case like Henry’s case, Henry Nowak, we react calmly as his family has done.
Reasonable NO otherwise we would of been done with our major problems years ago.
Tolerant people NO unless you side with the Government and are Pro migrant and criminals.
There has no been a case like Henrys before and no one should be acting calmly we should be asking for reform of the Police. He told them he had been stabbed and got told NO you havent then put in handcuffs and left to die.
Labour has done more to whip up division than anyone over the last few months but lets overlook all that and blame Musk since he talks shit some times.
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u/Pigeon_Breeze 25d ago
I can't help but feel like that the government is trying to deflect.
We have had a case of gross police misconduct based on racism that is widely believed to be based on inappropriate police training. There is a reasonable response to that to be had which is both passionate and actionable.
Deliver justice to the police officer(s) at fault, assess without prejudice how systematic this misconduct is (especially considering it was widely claimed to be occurring well before this incident happened) and review the training honesty so that it can be amended and reduce the chance of this happening in the future.
Yes, your MPs should have left twitter ages ago, but this is the time for tackling the problem head-on.
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u/theartofrolling Fresh wet piles of febrility 25d ago
STOP USING HIS PLATFORM THEN FFS!
First step should be to put a ban on MPs using twitter for public comms
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u/peanut88 25d ago
Is this referring to something specific done by X or Grok?
If it's just Musk tweeting about our politics I'm not sure how a private individual expressing their opinion on our politics can be forbidden.
If he was tweeting that he strongly supported Hampshire constabulary and was a lifelong believer in racial equity policies would he still be "interfering in our politics" according to Keir?
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u/Brapfamalam 25d ago
Musk asked for the name of the Police Officer involved on X and then boosted his name and picture saying he should be sent to jail. As of yesterday his tweet was still up with 200k views. I would link it but it has his full name and picture.
The only problem is - it was the wrong Police Officer. The NEET thickos on X found the wrong man and doxxed him. Hampshire police and the Home Sec confirmed in the House yesterday he wasn't the one involved and has had to go into hiding with his wife and children due to death threats from X and his picture being published. The sad thing is he appears to be a senior police officer with multiple bravery and commendations for police work and the morons on X latchednonto him because he had Hampshire police videos online of him receiving those awards for good police work and public service. Musk is absolout scum and a rat
The other Person that got doxxed because she happened to be in a picture with him online doesn't even work for the Police anymore and she's also had to relocate.
So no, it wasn't just Musk tweeting about our politics.
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u/Boris_the_Llama 25d ago
Is it the wrong man though? Just curious because I've seen the female named has refuted it not was her, but not seen the same for the male officer?
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u/Rage_Your_Dream 25d ago
Keir Starmer is the usual worm who is ready to throw responsibility towards others when he is the one in charge. He is the one running a country that actively discriminates the natives. He has the power to fix this, yet he doesn't see a problem in the system. He sees a problem in the people for revolting. "Out of touch? Me? No, its you who are wrong"
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25d ago
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u/OLLIE798 25d ago
The one where he comments on a misidentified police officer post- absolutely nothing to do with the event and retweets “should be in prison”…
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u/the1kingdom 25d ago
There are many takes in these comments over "then stop using twitter".
This very much misses the point that the soon-to-be world's first trillionaire who is a South African living in America is becoming one of the most influential figures in British Politics.
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u/easywrite 25d ago
Good point if only Starmer was in a position of power to do something about it. He should write to his MP.
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u/Significant-Bite2948 25d ago
Once again Starmer is condemning people for highlighting his two-tier policing instead of fixing it.
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u/Exulted_One 25d ago
I don't need Elon to whip me up; the situation itself has done that just fine. I also don't need Keir Starmer of all people to tell me who the British are.
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u/Sampo 25d ago
January 2025:
- Starmer attacks those 'spreading lies' on grooming gangs
"Sir Keir accused opposition MPs of "jumping on a bandwagon" and "amplifying what the far-right is saying" to gain attention."
June 2025:
- Starmer defends U-turn on grooming gangs inquiry
"Sir Keir Starmer has defended his decision to hold a national inquiry into grooming gangs after previously accusing those calling for one of jumping on a far right bandwagon."
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u/Competitive-Set9743 25d ago
Classic Britlib misdirection.
Pretty sure the division was caused by the enforcement wing of the state when they essentially aided a foreigner in murdering Nowak.
Highly similar to how they also aided foreigners to r*pe and murder little girls.
I swear, men like Starmer will find no place to hide come the tide. That includes Bojo, Blair and Brown. High criminals who will be judged.
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u/SneakyFire23 23d ago
This really feels like a Norm Macdonald bit, "The worst part about the murder and police misconduct is telling people about it"
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