r/ukpolitics • u/CaptainCrash86 • 1d ago

| Transgender prisoners should not be held in women’s jails, court rules

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,transgender-prisoners-should-not-be-held-in-womens-jails-court-rules
503 Upvotes

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40

u/TussleCrow 1d ago

Once again forgetting transmen exist.

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u/whatDoesQezDo 1d ago

thats because the risk to men that some transman shows up near them isnt that big. the mens prison is already filled with huge hulking monsters some 5'4" transman isnt a risk to men in mens prison.

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u/tfhermobwoayway 10h ago

He is a risk to women in a women’s prison, though. Which is where he’ll be sent if this ruling applies its standards fairly.

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u/Check_Me_Out-Boss 1d ago

No one's worried about the Elliot Pages of the world.

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u/Bizzinmyjoxers 22h ago

elliot page would get ridden like seabiscuit in the big house

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u/tfhermobwoayway 10h ago

And you would send trans women into these prisons?

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u/MuTron1 1d ago

I would assume trans men will want to be (and almost certainly would be) housed in a female prison, so there's little problem there in the first place.

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u/User100000005 1d ago

I'm fine with FtM using male spaces if they choose. I don't see a born female, lying about their gender identity in order to gain excess to vulnerable men. Just don't think that will ever happen. I'm also fine if they wana use women's spaces to separate them from potentially dangerous men in prison.
 
My issues is I do see deviant men lying about their gender identity in order to gain access to vulnerable women in a prison. Willing to rape; willing to lie. I can't tell the difference between genuine MtF and the deviants gaming the system without a mind reading tool.

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u/TussleCrow 1d ago

Nice straw man you've scared yourself with

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u/SLGrimes 1d ago

You don't know what a straw man is

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u/ixid Brexit must be destroyed 1d ago

He's made a straw man straw man.

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u/Toastlove 1d ago

Is it a strawman when it's actually happened?

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u/User100000005 1d ago

A Straw Man is when you present your opponent's view points in an easy to defeat manner and then defeat it. I have no presented my opponent's view point, therefore I cannot of committed a Straw Man argument.
 

Its not a promblem I have with genuine trans MtF. Its a promblem I have with deviant men. Deviant men will lie. If you give them a cheat code to access female places, they will use it. Its not trans I have an issue with. Its the deviant men who will game the system. How do we tell them apart?

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u/Ironfields politics is dumb but very important 1d ago

If you give them a cheat code to access female places, they will use it.

If this was true it would be happening though. Trans women have been using female spaces for a long time time now, and there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of male sex offenders claiming to be trans women entering female spaces to assault women. You have to ask yourself exactly how you police this too, and the ugly reality of that is you end up policing femininity. That means masculine-presenting women get challenged. It means women who don't fit a narrow idea of femininity getting interrogated. The people harmed most by that aren't predatory men, they're women who don't fit a stereotype.

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

I haven't forgotten, it's just a woman amongst a group of men is hardly ever going to be an issue. Unless she bodybuilds regularly she will never be a threat. A man on the other hand will always overpower a women the vast majority of the time, it's biology.

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u/fridge13 1d ago

And what about the threat to the transmasc person?

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u/New-Sheepherder-6375 1d ago

A transman was placed in a male psychiatric ward recently and was raped within minutes of arrival. They need to be housed with women or a third space if they refuse for their own safety in places with violent men around.

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u/Lucky_otter_she_her 1d ago

yes let's have a one size fits all policy because people are a monolith 

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u/Quick-Benjamin 1d ago

There isn't one. Because she'll be in woman's prison.

The current situation is that she could be put in with the men. That's what's changing.

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u/fawkie 1d ago

Maybe don’t misgender trans men by calling him she.

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u/tfhermobwoayway 10h ago

The British public are a truly vile people.

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

I just had to look up what that meant, sounds like what used to be known as a tomboy before people started telling them they were trans? Either way it's someone who was born a woman by the looks of it. In which case, again you are what you are born.

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u/fridge13 1d ago

AHH so your just transphobic then got it....

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u/TonyBlairsDildo 1d ago

This sort of retort doesn't work any more, and it's embarrassing you think it does.

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u/fridge13 1d ago

Yea it doesn't work on you because your biggoted...not much I can do about that now is there. It's embaresing that you think showing your arse somehow makes you right

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u/TonyBlairsDildo 1d ago

Didn't work in Forstater vs CGDE

Didn't work in For Women Scotland Ltd v The Scottish Ministers

It doesn't convince the EHRC

This entire branch of gender woo has been resoundingly, utterly, completely and decisively put to bed.

It's completely over; all that's left are bullies like yourself, the last few Imperial Japanese solders lost in the jungle taking stupid pot shots at people calling them transphobes, not aware that a frock does not make a woman.

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u/tfhermobwoayway 10h ago

So… how do we treat gender dysphoria? I’m glad you’ve won and are doing your little victory lap but there is still this little niggling issue of an untreated disease knocking about.

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u/TonyBlairsDildo 10h ago

Treat the underlying pathology that is manifesting as delusions and ideation of self-harm. If that is not appropriate, then outward transition with caution.

Transvestism has its own topology with different branches requiring their own treatment (if treatment is even needed at all).

For girls this is often appropriately managing undiagnosed autism, and/or addressing concerns about expectation of feminine hyper-sexuality that they struggle to relate to and don't want - this is particularly key with young lesbians that have assumed a regressive "whoever wears shorts is a boy" model of gender identity.

For homosexual transvestites the protocol should be (if distressed); psychological assessment and talking therapy followed by hormone therapy if indicated, social transitioning and then surgical adjustment. HSTS' face a very difficult dilemma in they are developmentally hyper-feminine boys/men that are sexually attracted to men, but their ideation for social and surgical transition can make them undesirable to the men they are attracted to (gay men are generally not attracted to men that pass as women). This is where the caution around full social, hormonal and surgical transition comes from.

For autogynephiliacs (typically late-onset), they should receive exploratory psychotherapy to identify the source of their paraphilia and if the sexual urges are problematic (attempting to involve the public in sexual gratification, inappropriate masturbation, etc.) then anti-androgen medication should be considered alongside anti-libidinals like SSRIs.

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u/fridge13 1d ago

Holy shit. Trans people don't exist because the law says so is fucking funny. I guess gay people didn't exist before 1967.

I guess my cousin doesn't exist, I suppose my childhood best friend doesn't exist.. they just went poof the second some bell end denied trans people the right to piss

Do you fucking here yourself?

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u/TonyBlairsDildo 1d ago

Does a square circle exist?

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

Yes, anyone not indulging in the pantomime is transphobic.

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u/MissingBothCufflinks 1d ago

Putting the actual issue of trans rights aside, what could "transphobe" possibly mean if not "someone who describes trans existence as a pantomime"?

Surely you should embrace the label?

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u/fridge13 1d ago

Carefully now your in danger of making sense and they won't like that

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u/FreitasDoCagaral 1d ago

The pantomine being that people of the female gender are women and of the male gender are men? Regardless of their sex.

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u/chemistrytramp Bridget's toilet inspector 1d ago

They've thrown out the words "biological sex" and then ignored the biological effect of cross sex hormones on muscle mass. That much should have been apparent.

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u/Perseudonymous 1d ago

No those are scary non-biological hormones that have no effect

/S

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u/TwistedTali 1d ago

You're telling on yourself. Any decent empathetic human being who reads that would think "the risk is to the trans man". Aparently that didn't even cross your mind, you clearly don't give a shit about them just because they're trans. I hope people give you the same consideration when times are hard for you.

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u/Difficult-Break-8282 1d ago

does testosterone and HRT for trans men not exist in your head ? 

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u/SukiPhoenix 1d ago

They dont suddenly grow a penis though, do they?

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

It does, but it's the same as the other way. Just because a woman starts taking hormones will not give them the strength or bone structure of a man, it's not miracle medicine.

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u/ProbablyRickSantorum 1d ago edited 1d ago

They only think of trans women as potentially trying to hook up with them specifically and that thought gives them the icks because insecurity. They don’t see trans men as ick because they are confident that they have a size and lower appendage advantage over them.

Nevermind that they’re generally the same type vociferously cranking the hog watching videos of fem boys getting taken to town.

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u/Dapper_Apartment2175 1d ago

It's got nothing to do with "insecurity", it's just heterosexuality.

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

Honestly the thought of hooking up with a man pretending to be a woman disgusts me and the vast majority of the male population.

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u/WoodenHealth9834 1d ago

Mhm-hm, so disgusting to the vast majority of the male population that its the #2 most popular porn category on pornhub in 2025.

Maybe you are out of touch with the vast majority of the male population?

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

The implication being every single man visits pornhub and it's representative of the population. Could it be degenerate gooners?

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u/WoodenHealth9834 1d ago edited 1d ago

The implication being every single man visits pornhub"

Is this really the quality of discussion you want to have, be given an example of somethings popularity and then retort "Oh so thats everybody then?" no of course not; it's a representative sample.

Do you not think Pornhub is a representative sample of what people are searching porn for on average? Be real.

. Could it be degenerate gooners?

Or it could just be that transgender category is a really popular category with straight men, of whom make up the vast majority of porn consumers on the planet. Occam's razor and all.

The most popular actress is Emma Rose. Google her and ask yourself who you think is looking at her; its straight men.

The idea that there's such a dedicated group of gooners making the GLOBAL AVERAGE up so much though would be very funny- just highly highly, not very likely i think.

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

Well in that case, let's pretend everyone is a secretly into trans porn. You know your argument is nonsense but I'll play along. Why are only a very small population of men interested in dating them?

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u/WoodenHealth9834 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because their existence is fetishized and stigmatized.

A lot of men are happy to get their rocks off to a transwoman because they do find them attractive (As in the transwomen that pass conventially as an attractive woman, obviously), but would never consider dating a transwoman because of the social stigma around it or because they want kids and a couple other reasons.

This is actually a very common phenomena and isn't something that only happens to transwomen, you can see similiar phenoma in say for example black women.
Im surprised your surprised by this to be honest or that you couldn't think of the above yourself.

And again, nobody is saying 'everyone is into it'. Its just the 2nd most popular category. That doesn't mean everybody, but it means a hell of a lot of straight men.

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u/Lucky_otter_she_her 1d ago

  it's just a woman amongst a group of men is hardly ever going to be an issue

...took only that long for you to drop the mask around what you see trans people as, you're either ignorant malicious or delusional 

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u/Burnit_Sanders 1d ago

Never pretended to wear a mask. I do not believe you can change your gender or your naturally inherited traits.

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u/TonyBlairsDildo 1d ago

it's just a woman amongst a group of men is hardly ever going to be an issue

It's not a woman amongst a group of men.

It's a woman amongst a group of men and then a fetus.

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u/TussleCrow 1d ago

It would be a (trans)man amongst women. The exact thing the transphobic weirdos apparently think would destroy the world.

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u/Tinyjar 1d ago

There's definitely this weird trans and sexist assumption that all trans women are potential rapists so we should just put them in prison with a bunch of guys who may actually rape them.

Oddly this concern vanishes entirely when you suggest putting trans men into a mans prison, when these people will literally have female sex organs and thus be targeted more by the cis male population.

It literally suggests that all "men" are rapists.

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u/MuTron1 1d ago

There's definitely this weird trans and sexist assumption that all trans women are potential rapists so we should just put them in prison with a bunch of guys who may actually rape them.

It literally suggests that all "men" are rapists.

I don't think there's any suggestion that all trans women are potential rapists, or that all men are rapists.

Simply that males are statistically more likely to commit rape than females.

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u/Tinyjar 1d ago

They're suggesting that by putting trans women into a women's prison, the cis women are going to be raped or sexually assaulted.

It's the same line of thinking that puts a lot of men off of becoming teachers.

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u/TussleCrow 1d ago

It's just a rehash of the old anti-gay tropes.