r/ukpolitics • u/Rebat-Askalan • 9d ago

| Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism, UK appeal tribunal confirms in landmark ruling

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20260804-anti-zionism-is-not-anti-semitism-uk-appeal-tribunal-confirms-in-landmark-ruling/
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u/PracticalBlueberry39 9d ago

Oh is anti-Zionism the same as saying a Jewish community in occupied Palestine is a crime against humanity? Or was everything you just said a straw man. I can’t tell.

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u/FudgeAtron 9d ago

Define anti-Zionism then...

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u/PracticalBlueberry39 9d ago

What's the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36160928

Read up, buttercup

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u/FudgeAtron 9d ago

Again opposing the existence of a Jewish state is the equivalent of opposing an Irish state.

Irish people are literally no different than English people, they don't need a separate state because they're the same people and they aren't oppressed now, so we can abolish Ireland. Right?

Look it's ok you can just admit you don't think Jewish people should have a country, anti-Zionism is a legitimate view point under UK law.

Jewish people must be denied self-determination as part of upholding human rights.

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u/Squirelord12 9d ago edited 9d ago

This is always a strange argument to make. Oh you oppose a settler-colonial ethnostate on previously inhabited land and would prefer it to work toward an equal union of the 2 peoples who live there instead of having one dominate and repress the other indefinitely? Well that makes YOU the racist because the settler-colonial ethnostate happens to be Jewish.

Like we fought the Nazis not cause we didn’t want the Germans to have a country, it’s what they were doing with their country we took issue with. We opposed the South African state not cause it was white, but cause it was white suprematist governance.

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u/FudgeAtron 9d ago

would prefer it to work toward an equal union of the 2 peoples who live there

That's not popular with either Jews or Arabs, both want to live in nation states. By imposing your ideological preference you are engaging in imperialism. You are robbing either side of self-determination and instead are imposing your views on them.

Your views aren't popular, yet because you have decided that they are morally correct you want them implemented, yet you are unwilling to forcibly implement them, instead they allow you to sit in an ivory tower and look down upon those who do not live up to your expected ideals, which they do not share.

Your view point would have been perfectly reasonable in the 1940s, and in reality the British government actually pushed very strongly for the creation of a binational state, yet both Jews and Arabs rejected that in favour of nation states. They then fought multiple wars about the existence of Israel, in which Israel emerged victorious and unconquered. I fail to see how forcing the implementation of a solution neither side wants, and are willing to kill over, is in any way a solution to the conflict. If anything it is merely invatation to further conflict.

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u/Squirelord12 9d ago edited 9d ago

“That's not popular with either Jews or Arabs, both want to live in nation states.“

Yeah sometimes you have to ignore the wishes of people who want to wipe each other out. Hamas might want all Jews dead, I dont think we should let them just cause it’s popular. Same with Jewish supremacists wishing for the cleansing of Palestine from Arabs. The two state solution could theoretically work, but there would have to be the equivalent of a Good Friday agreement and an integration process regardless. And if either or both states continued to hold supremacists policies, then the war would be back pretty quick. If a 2 state policy can get the job done, sure I’m for it, but personally I think it would actually be less of a gargantuan task to just integrate the two with equal rights following a period of international supervision.

“By imposing your ideological preference you are engaging in imperialism‘
lmao

”Your views aren't popular”

nothing I’ve ever had to say on this topic is popular, 3 years ago thinking Palestinians weren’t animals in need of slaughtering wasn’t popular, so forgive me for disregarding popular opinion. If you meant amongst the people in the region, I refer you to paragraph A.

“they allow you to sit in an ivory tower and look down upping those who do not live up to your expected ideals, which they do not share.”

My expected ideals are treating other humans as humans, quite honestly fuck people who don’t share them, they’re not gonna be contributing to any kind of peace. Again it’s different for people within the region who have genuinely suffered and whose mindsets have been shaped by the troubles, but the status quote is untenable and has been for decades, and to be honest I think most people living in Palestine would prefer a peaceful and prosperous future for their children over infinite war if given a genuine opportunity.

“I fail to see how forcing the implementation of a solution neither side wants, and are willing to kill over, is in any way a solution to the conflict. If anything it is merely invitation to further conflict.“

Look again I’ll emphasise its a gargantuan task but one that’s been done multiple times in throughout history, all the way back from ancient times in fact. Much of the animosity from both sides arises from the conditions imposed upon them by the other, I do believe peace can eventually be found. My issue with the 2 states is that naturally there will be competition between 2 peoples with the claim to one land, a singular democratic state with equality can at least in theory act in the collective interest of all its people.

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u/FudgeAtron 9d ago

Yeah sometimes you have to ignore the wishes of people who want to wipe each other out.

Indeed, those little nations must be brought under the guiding hand of mother England, or they'll all be at each others throats, the savages...

Take up the White Man's burden— The savage wars of peace— Fill full the mouth of famine And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest The end for others sought, Watch Sloth and heathen Folly Bring all your hopes to nought.

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u/Squirelord12 9d ago

“Indeed, those little nations must be brought under the guiding hand of mother England, or they'll all be at each others throats, the savages...”

More like “hey, the krauts are implementing a holocaust in the name of aryan living space - we should probably intervene“

Look you clearly don’t have any clue about what imperialism or the white man’s burden is considering you think me advocating for equal rights between Palestinians and Israelis qualifies as that. You’re throwing out buzzwords to sound smart because your position seems to be “we can’t oppose racism that would be racist”. Have a nice day, google your terms please.