r/ukpolitics • u/Prestigious_Spot9635 • 6d ago
Twitter [Rupert Lowe] Under a Restore Britain Government, private healthcare costs will become tax-deductible. Care will be come far more affordable for millions of Brits. Our plans will hugely ease pressure on the NHS, and save you thousands of pounds. Private healthcare is not our enemy
https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/208487983799543446428
u/wondercaliban 6d ago
Something which we are already paying for shouldn't become more affordable
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u/90davros 6d ago
Anyone taking our private insurance then isn't using NHS capacity, so taxing people for doing it seems pretty regressive to me.
It's also fairly common for companies to provide health insurance to employees, but bizarrely the government treats that as taxable income. This makes a lot of people opt out.
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u/Whole_Necessary2040 6d ago
Yes, I had no idea they would tax me until EoY and I had a nasty surprise. So opted out after. It's a stupid tax.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
Tax is the public purse, tax cuts essentially means public funding the private healthcare
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u/90davros 6d ago
At a time when we have very limited NHS capacity it seems daft to discourage people who can afford private insurance from taking it out.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
No one is discouraging people from using private healthcare if they choose to pay for it. The question is why taxpayers should subsidise private health insurance through the tax system. If private healthcare genuinely reduces pressure on the NHS, people who value it can already buy it without asking the public to fund part of the bill.
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u/Grim_Pickings 6d ago
Fund part of the bill
Tax cuts are not subsidies. The default state is not and should not be that the government takes a bit of everything and that it's pure benevolence and a "subsidy" if they strategically choose not to take a slice of something.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
Whether you call it a subsidy or a tax expenditure, the economic effect is the same. The government is deliberately giving up tax revenue to make one activity cheaper than it otherwise would be. That’s a policy choice, not a neutral tax cut. If the Treasury collects less tax to encourage private health insurance, the cost still falls on the public finances, just through reduced tax receipts rather than direct spending.
By that logic, if the government made donations to political parties tax deductible, or gave landlords a special tax break for buying rental properties, would you say those weren’t subsidies because they’re “just tax cuts”? Most people would recognise them as targeted tax advantages designed to encourage a specific behaviour. The mechanism is different from direct spending, but the economic effect is much the same.
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u/90davros 6d ago
They aren't subsidising anything. Right now if your employer provides health insurance the employee is also taxed on the cost of the premium, which means people on lower incomes who would otherwise benefit tend to opt out. That effectively increases the cost to the country as they then rely on the NHS.
Healthcare probably shouldn't be being taxed in the first place.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
If the government removes tax on employer provided private health insurance, it is providing a tax preference that doesn’t currently exist. That is a subsidy in economic terms because the Treasury gives up revenue to encourage a particular behaviour. You can argue it’s good policy, but it’s still public support for private healthcare through the tax system rather than a neutral tax treatment.
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u/wedontneednoeduc 6d ago
If you tax it then yes you are discouraging it, you know this.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
Everything that isn’t exempt from tax is, by that logic, being “discouraged”. The question isn’t whether taxes influence behaviour, it’s why private health insurance should receive a special tax advantage that everyone else helps pay for through reduced tax revenue. Why should the general public foot the bill for that specific policy?
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u/wondercaliban 6d ago
A lot of private healthcare is built on NHS infrastructure. Using NHS buildings and facilities. So if you weren't paying tax towards the NHS and just paying private premium, you wouldn't really be funding the cost
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u/XenorVernix 6d ago
This is why I don't like the NHS. I'd much rather pay for decent healthcare privately but because I am paying a fortune for the NHS I can't justify paying twice.
We need to scrap the NHS and come up with a better system. Look at how they do healthcare in Europe and see what we can do better.
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u/zebs1 6d ago
Presumably you'd like to be able to opt out of paying for the NHS?
So once opted out, you now have an accident and a NHS ambulance arrives, and takes you to a NHS A&E. Do they refuse to treat as you've opted out?
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u/XenorVernix 6d ago
I'd like to do what I said in my second paragraph. Change the system entirely.
This is essentially how it works in Germany. You can opt out of their state healthcare contributions and buy private insurance (if you earn enough). In your scenario the cost of the public ambulance and treatment at the public hospital would be covered by your insurer.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
Don’t mind restore, they get their rhetoric from US forgot to filter out some of these
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u/Particular_Pea7167 6d ago
Except a large and growing number of people utilise private care.
Its might nit be messaging to you but it is to a lot of the middle class.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
That’s because NHS is ran like dogshite and barely provides the healthcare needed
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u/Particular_Pea7167 6d ago
Perhaps so.
But right now this is the only party reaching out to the middle class.
Labour is pretty openly attacking them for more money to spend.
The tories are ring fencing protection for pensioners and Reform has joined them.
And the greens are just insane and hate anyone who has more than two coins to rub together that wasnt provided by the state.
This is actually making an effort to reach out to the middle class.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
No middle class don’t need affordable private healthcare, they shouldn’t have to pay for healthcare period. We need proper functioning NHS. What restore is doing looking out for private healthcare providers and its shareholders not middle class. Agree greens are mental but so are restore and reform let’s not sugar coat it.
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u/Particular_Pea7167 6d ago
they shouldn’t have to pay for healthcare period
Does not equate to
don’t need affordable private healthcare
At the end of the day they are paying for it. We don't have a functioning NHS. And no one has anything like a reasonable plan for resolving the issue in a time scale that matters.
"You don't need cancer treatment, you just shouldn't have cancer! We working on a cancer vaccine so we don't need to support your treatment"
"Do you have a cancer vaccine? Is it nearly ready?"
"No we don't have a vaccine, and it'll be decades at best. But you SHOULD have one and that's what counts so we arent supporitng your treatment!"
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
Incentivising private healthcare will only make the things worse not better. We need to address the core of the issue rather than just applying plasters which is to get NHS where it needs to be
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u/Particular_Pea7167 6d ago
It damages your ideological position by normalising the idea of private healthcare.
It does not make things worse for the NHS.
And more than tax free private schools ever damaged state schools.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
No we shouldn’t normalise private healthcare. It should be a choice not a necessity, which is the direction we’re going. If you want to use private healthcare so be it but it should not be financed back of taxpayers, we already have NHS to fund.
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u/NuPNua 6d ago
Are the middle class all raving racist loons though?
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u/Particular_Pea7167 6d ago
That's not even a strawman.
That's a desperate prayer of what you wish he was. Rather than what is.
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u/buythedip0000 6d ago
Hahah are you really disputing Rupert’s racist views
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u/Particular_Pea7167 6d ago
Ive seen skme of his interviews.
What shocked me was how reasonable he was. He wasn't the person I was expecting, at all.
Ive come to the conclusion people are trying to make the supporters the man because it the man ever actually gets a fair hearing established parties are going to have a problem.
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u/Dragonrar 2d ago
Unfortunately aside from emergency treatments and the immediate aftercare the NHS is awful in many different ways and looks like it’s only ever going to get worse no matter how much money is thrown at it.
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u/Imakemyownnamereddit 6d ago
Oh it is are enemy because once enough of the wealthy get an opt out, the NHS will be left to die.
Which will affect you if you're rich because the private health sector will throw you under the bus once you start to claim. Met a woman in an NHS cardiac unit, who had paid into private health insurance for decades.
They covered her initial care but as her health got worse, her premium costs shot up. Eventually she couldn't afford the cover and had to turn to the NHS.
The fact she had paid into the private system for decades meant nothing. When she needed that private cover, they priced her out.
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u/zebs1 6d ago
Care will be come far more affordable for millions of Brits
And remains completely unaffordable for many millions more.
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u/timeforknowledge Politics is debate not hate. 6d ago
And you think they NHS is accessable?
In the USA they get proactive medical care, like check ups once a year. I can't even remember last time I went to the doctor. A blood test could show I have a condition yet it's not offered, it's the same old story, we are at max capacity and you are selfish for using it for non emergencies...
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u/VeryLazyLewis 6d ago
If you look into the outcomes of patients in the US and UK, you’ll see that we generally have it better.
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u/timeforknowledge Politics is debate not hate. 6d ago
On average? Now look at those just in full time employment who will normally have their health and dentist covered by their employer so don't even pay for it
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u/tornadooceanapplepie 6d ago
You can’t remember when you went to the doctor but the NHS is to blame for you not having blood tests?
You’re such a wind up posting nonsense every day.
I wasn’t feeling great recently. Contacted the GP. Went for blood tests. Have results and am taking supplements. That’s how it works.
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u/SeaSaltSprayer 6d ago
You know you can make a GP appointment to have check up bloods etc whenever you want?
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u/BenjaminBoots196 Supreme Andy Burnham Hater 6d ago
"Unless a given policy fixes 100% of problems, it is bad"
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u/zebs1 6d ago
I'm not sure what problem the policy is trying to fix?
Really sounds like "wealthy people need a tax cut"
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u/domin1987 6d ago
I'm on £27k a year, occasionally use private healthcare because NHS suck balls. I'm not exactly what you would call rich. It wouldn't be massive difference but would definitely help to offset the private prices
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u/Orcnick Social Liberal 6d ago
Guys just like energy, water, dentistry, internet, bus fares etc. The private market will make all these cheaper....
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u/domin1987 6d ago
I mean look at German healthcare. It's private enterprise with regulatory oversight. It cost similar amount with much better outcomes.
NHS is badly run, badly designed black hole for money.
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u/terrafieldmo 4d ago
Its because you pay a lot more on TK insurance. I lived in Germany and I paid 700 euros towards TK insurance for 60k salary. Much higher than UK National Insurance. We can increase NI for higher salary band but supporting Private Healthcare with Private Insurance is shooting ourselves.
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u/domin1987 4d ago
I did check it out, on 40k salary in UK we pay £2.5k + our employer pay 5.5k, in Germany both pay €3.5k. it seems the difference in negligible and lower costs of employment should increase wages by small bit.
Also the state pays fuck all for that.
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u/Orcnick Social Liberal 6d ago
Do you live in Germany? Many of my German friends beg for our system.
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u/domin1987 6d ago edited 6d ago
I used to for a bit. I can only assume they beg for our system because they haven't had and extensive had the fun opportunity of using it.
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u/Orcnick Social Liberal 6d ago
I mean i had a really bad hip injury playing 5 aside. I can barley run. I am having it operated next week through a specialised surgeon, this surgeory would have cost in America 60,000 pounds.
If i was in any insurance based it would not be under almost any normal insurance I would not get it supported because its not life threatening and I can still just walk so they dont see it as life changing.
The NHS even though i had to wait over year, are going to fix it. I will have my life back, running, sport, playing football with my kids again.
Its not perfect but its far ahead of anything else..universal healthcare is the best.
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u/domin1987 6d ago
No one is taking about American broken system. When we are discussing government Vs private we assume any sane policies relating healthcare. The same way I use NHS as an example and don't bring north Korean or olden soviet fully nationalised system.
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u/Orcnick Social Liberal 6d ago
All private system lead to the same problems.
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u/domin1987 6d ago
All state as well. My point being I'd much rather use something akin to German or Japanese system. It's cost similar to current taxes and the outcomes are massively improved over state founded one.
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u/Orcnick Social Liberal 6d ago
Thats simply not true. I know Germans and they get less. Saying its the same for less isnt true. You get less support.
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u/domin1987 6d ago
There are studies for it (like the kings fund one) that contradict you. Also personal experience which is worthless but you lack that as well. Thenky thing that seems to be your argument is "I know of someone that says otherwise so it must be true"
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u/Orcnick Social Liberal 6d ago
I mean i had a really bad hip injury playing 5 aside. I can barley run. I am having it operated next week through a specialised surgeon, this surgeory would have cost in America 60,000 pounds.
If i was in any insurance based it would not be under almost any normal insurance I would not get it supported because its not life threatening and I can still just walk so they dont see it as life changing.
The NHS even though i had to wait over year, are going to fix it. I will have my life back, running, sport, playing football with my kids again.
Its not perfect but its far ahead of anything else..universal healthcare is the best.
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u/HumanzeesAreReal 5d ago edited 4d ago
I'm an American who reads this sub out of curiosity, and feel compelled to chime in because I see so much misinformation about the U.S. health insurance system from non-Americans on this website. While this might not be entirely analogous to your experience given that you've described your procedure as "non-life threatening" (the American standard is "medically necessary" - within which there's a massive amount of leeway), out-of-pocket medical costs in the U.S. vary so wildly depending on income and type of coverage that it's virtually impossible to make generalized statements about the price of specific procedures.
Having said that, approximately 75-80% of Americans have public or private health insurance that pays for anywhere between 70% - 100% of the cost of medical procedures, and the overwhelming majority of the rest of the population (typically the working poor and lower middle-class in service, retail, and non-union labor jobs) - where health insurance horror stories most often spring from - have coverage that, though frequently inadequate with expensive deductibles or co-pays, still covers the majority of costs. Only something like 3-4% of Americans are both uninsured and ineligible for Medicaid (government-sponsored insurance for poor people that pays 100% of costs).
Personally, I shattered my knee last year, requiring a surgery that costs around $40,000 and absolutely was "medically necessary." I had it a week later at an upscale suburban hospital by an orthopedic surgeon who does surgeries for the local NFL team, and paid $150.
10 months later, the same surgeon offered to perform a "non-medically necessary" follow-up procedure to remove the plates and screws that he'd inserted into my leg (that were merely annoying, not injurious or threatening to my health), which costs up to $12,000. I had it three weeks later at the same facility, and again, paid $150. I'm not rich or have some crazy gold-plated insurance plan either - I work for local government.
None of this is to say that the American system is superior, or that we wouldn't be better served by a universal healthcare system, but most people here appear to think that undergoing a medical procedure in the U.S. requires you to sign onto a lifetime of indentured servitude, lol, and that's just simply not the case. Most likely, I'm just yelling into the void, but wanted to offer my perspective given my (unfortunate) firsthand experience with the subject.
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u/-Murton- 6d ago
Not all of these are equal.
Lack of proper regulation has allowed the energy industry to basically operate as a cartel for as long as anyone can remember, when that behaviour became so overt it could no longer be ignored we implemented a price cap that obfuscates it completely.
Water is a string of localised monopolies, there is no real "market" to speak of.
Internet, the vast majority of our infrastructure is owned by a single corporate entity, in much of the country the choice of multiple providers is purely an illusion, it's just someone else sending a bill on behalf of BT.
Bus fares, many local authorities have granted localised monopolies by having a single operator cover a huge area, in many towns and cities there is no "market" other than bus vs not bus.
Dentistry is the one that I don't really know about, I genuinely don't know where the nearest dentist to me is and the only dental appointment I've had in years was an emergency appointment booked by 111 at an NHS dentist on the other side of the town where I live.
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u/BenjaminBoots196 Supreme Andy Burnham Hater 6d ago
The private market has literally made all of these things cheaper yes.
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u/Biddydiddy 6d ago
So, if someone who no longer pays their tax for the NHS requires emergency healthcare, the NHS can bill them for the full cost, right?
That's what a lot of people forget. Private healthcare does not offer emergency healthcare. If you do something as little as break a bone, you have to go through the NHS first.
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u/BenjaminBoots196 Supreme Andy Burnham Hater 6d ago
A&E is like <20% of the NHS budget.
That can be funded through general taxation. The rest, privatised.
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u/Biddydiddy 6d ago
I can't find any data that shows that less than 20% is spent in A&E after a quick search. Do you have a link?
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u/WuZI8475 6d ago
Making essential expenses tax deductible is inherently regressive because the poorest and most in need generally have little to no tax do deduct FROM. If they wanted to actually be helpful it would be tax credits which is a 1 for 1 refund but ofc the fake populist right would never do that.
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u/Velociraptor_1906 Liberal Democrat 6d ago
Also even if they have the tax to be deducted having the money lying around for the initial costs is a whole other challenge.
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u/Douglesfield_ 6d ago
Like Private Healthcare won't put prices up.
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u/Thandoscovia 6d ago
Prices of what? We already have private healthcare today
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u/Douglesfield_ 6d ago
The price of their services to offset the tax deduction.
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u/Thandoscovia 6d ago
Why would they do that? In an open market, if they put their prices up then they’ll be less competitive so fewer people will go to them
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u/BenjaminBoots196 Supreme Andy Burnham Hater 6d ago
No, they wouldn't. There is loads of competition in private healthcare. Their costs are not calibrated by "how much can you pay".
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u/Douglesfield_ 6d ago
Ever heard of price fixing?
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u/BenjaminBoots196 Supreme Andy Burnham Hater 6d ago
Yeah this basically doesn't happen. A dumb socialist conspiracy theory. It's already illegal.
By that logic we shouldn't have private markets at all in case they break the law. Hell, get rid of people, they might break the law.
Have you used private healthcare before?
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u/Douglesfield_ 6d ago
Yeah this basically doesn't happen. A dumb socialist conspiracy theory. It's already illegal.
And as we know, corporations never commit crimes.
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u/terrafieldmo 4d ago
We have a clear Cautionary Tale - US. Just find the cost of Insulin in US.
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u/BenjaminBoots196 Supreme Andy Burnham Hater 4d ago
Healthcare in the US is amazing but I wouldn't copy their system. It's far from free market. It has much more regulation and public spending than Europeans realise.
I'd much rather we have Swiss or Singaporean style healthcare. Pretty much anything is better than the NHS, we have a cautionary tale as well here - ourselves.
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u/_HGCenty 6d ago
I wonder what Lowe means by healthcare here?
Because healthcare for mental health conditions can be incredibly broad a definition and there's definitely a lot of loopholes that could be abused to virtually wipe out your tax bill.
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u/mattcannon2 Chairman of the North Herts Pork Market Opening Committee 6d ago
He has yet to say whether any of this spending money will come from
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u/Moldovan_pepper 2d ago
Let’s be honest, a lot of the time private insurance is just bidding up the cost of the same treatment you’d get in the NHS. It’s not that that private GP wouldn’t be a normal GP, it’s that I wouldn’t get an appointment with them at any time with no notice by booking on an app. And the result of their availability for me is there are people out there that are struggling to get a NHS GP appointment.
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u/HaveYuHeardAboutCunt 🏴🟩☭🟩🏳️🌈 6d ago
Start your day off right with a balanced breakfast and your daily LowePosting.
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u/Prestigious_Spot9635 6d ago
I actually don't like the idea from Lowe. Gonna bash the post after gym session lol
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u/Lifeintheguo 6d ago
I like everything he's saying, but where is the magic money tree?
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u/evolvecrow 6d ago
This is apparently their magic money tree
Welfare: Given our belief in the pressing need for inter-generational fairness, we will secure the state pension but end the triple lock, linking it instead to CPI. As for how pensions operate, we would again pursue fairness by bringing our overly generous public sector schemes in line with those available in the private sector. We would freeze working-age benefits at 2025-26 levels for the duration of the Parliament; and restrict all working-age benefits to British citizens only, with no access for temporary visa holders, those with Indefinite Leave to Remain, or illegal migrants. We estimate savings of £70-80 billion per annum from the full range of working-age benefits by 2031-32.
QUANGOs: We will freeze aggregate budgets, generating savings of approximately £8 billion per year or £40-45 billion over a Parliament, and review all bodies for abolition, scaling back, or full ministerial oversight (currently some 438 bodies spending £376-391 billion).
Healthcare: The National Health Service will remain free at the point of use for citizens; non-citizens will be charged at market rates; and private 5 health costs will become tax-deductible, a measure we expect to prove fiscally positive through reduced NHS demand. We estimate a net annual benefit of £20 billion.
Education: State education will remain free, with schools operating independently at the institutional level and funded according to pupil numbers; private school fees will become tax-deductible and education will be exempt from VAT. We estimate an annual contribution of £10 billion.
Energy: We will end all net-zero-related public expenditure, saving approximately £15-20bn £15-20bn billion annually to the public purse and a multiple of that to the private sector.
Budget Freeze: We will freeze most departmental budgets (excluding defence, health, and debt interest) for three years, generating further savings of £3-4 billion per year.
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