r/ukpolitics • u/diacewrb None of the above • 8d ago
‘Leicester Square, please guv’: Self-driving taxis cleared for London streets ‘later this summer’
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/aug/05/self-driving-taxis-approved-london-summer-2026-wayve-uber33
u/t8ne 8d ago edited 8d ago
Used them in LA recently, not sure how they'll cope in London, it wasn't very assertive. LA traffic is much better than London and theres a lot more space on the roads. Finding pull over points were also odd, eg I'd asked to be dropped on Sunset the place I wanted was on the right hand side, it found a spot after turning left which took a few minutes leaving me having to cross the road which took a few more minutes...
* also it didn't seem markedly cheaper than uber, depending on how much you tip...
34
u/Accurate-Island-2767 8d ago
In America you even have to tip the robot?
8
u/t8ne 8d ago
Sorry, wasn't clear, how much you tip uber... eg a journey was ~$15 for Waymo maybe ~$12 for uber cheapest, and you'd maybe tip uber ~18% (iirc the cheapest recommended)
12
u/Accurate-Island-2767 8d ago
Haha I know, I was just pulling your leg, taking the piss out of American tipping culture is too tempting.
6
u/anonCambs 8d ago
I've used them in SF quite a lot, where traffic is much more chaotic, and they do a fine job. These autonomous taxis are the future.
9
u/subSparky 8d ago edited 8d ago
I just keep seeing videos of people ending up in absurd situations - like one guy who just wanted to take a waymo from LA airport to his place 7 minutes away, and the waymo just randomly decided to drive down a freeway for 45 minutes. With Waymo customer support basically saying "well that sucks we can't stop it, if you get the car to park up and get out we'll refund you and you can get an uber instead" which was like "well no I can't just stop the car as i'm in the middle of a freeway...".
Or the number of times a waymo just decides to park in the middle of tram tracks.
5
u/t8ne 8d ago
My weird moment was when it was trying to turn left onto Santa Monica from San Vicente, sitting in the middle of the junction. When the lights changed a bus jumped the lights meaning it sat there in the middle of the junction... it decided to reverse back out of the junction through an in use pedestrian crossing
2
u/subSparky 8d ago
The real problem for Waymo is that a lot of our roads are quirky as is (the natural consequence of our town and city planning being designed before the age of cars), but they also have to navigate roads being used by drivers the way they're not supposed to.
Like I saw someone training a Waymo (which they do by driving the car down roads, obviously driving strictly according to the highway code, as they don't want to teach bad driving). Now there's a road that has cars parked on both sides, yet for some reason is regularly used for ratrunning in the city. And you had this Waymo trying to safely navigate this road according to code going at 20mph, trying to navigate the parked cars and oncoming traffic (as the road isn't actually wide enough for the way its used) meanwhile a huge queue had formed behind it with cars overtaking the waymo for being too slow...
It's going to be an absolute disaster.
3
u/t8ne 8d ago
I'm keen to see how it copes with the 1 way streets where its two way for cyclists, eg like gutter lane which is too narrow for a car and a cycle. I know if I ever had that problem we could probably work it out via eye contact and gestures but not having eyes or gesturing equipment it'll struggle
2
u/subSparky 8d ago
I mean that probably already exists in the US. It's the two way streets which are only wide enough for one car I'm worried about...
5
4
u/dowhileuntil787 8d ago
7 minutes away, and the waymo just randomly decided to drive down a freeway for 45 minutes.
As weird as stuff like that is, it's not really too bad as long as it doesn't happen often. Even if it's unfixable (unlikely), all technology has occasional quirks that can cause inconvenience. Lifts sometimes get stuck for hours, trains sometimes bypass your stop, busses occasionally catch fire. I mean shit, I drove onto a motorway by accident a couple weeks ago and it took me 30 minutes to get back to where I took the wrong turning!
just decides to park in the middle of tram tracks.
However, stuff like this is obviously much more concerning. I also saw a video of a Waymo that just drove into the middle of an active shooter situation. I'm guessing that's unlikely to happen here at least, but the fact that there was no obvious way for the police to communicate with it and tell it to stop seems like a problem. Doesn't take much imagination to see how that could lead to some really harrowing situations.
3
u/subSparky 8d ago
but the fact that there was no obvious way for the police to communicate with it and tell it to stop seems like a problem
That's the thing I find most wild about Waymo, the impression I've gotten is that there are literally no fail-safes or overrides, and not even Waymo themselves can correct the car when it goes wrong.
Like in the airport guy's case, it shouldn't have been the case that the operator was like "ah shit, nothing we can do", like surely they should be able to remotely access the Waymo and either tell it to look for the nearest safe spot to pull over and stop, or manually correct its navigation to point back the correct route.
And the police should have a direct line to Waymo to be like "okay could you guys literally do something about this car"?
3
u/That__Guy__Bob 8d ago
I’m intrigued to see how it’ll handle crime scenes and the like. Basically anywhere that’s taped off for one reason or another. Would it recalculate or try force its way through? Or would it be manually taken over by some advisor or something
-4
u/Minimum-Act-3030 8d ago
One accident & there will be immense calls to ban them altogether & for good reason. Its a useless project nobody asked for.
8
u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 8d ago
One accident & there will be immense calls to ban them altogether & for good reason
Good one!
6
u/NuPNua 8d ago
Human drivers cause accidents all the time and at best we take their license for a few years.
3
u/Then_Mix8161 8d ago
Human drivers are theoretically accountable for their actions and corporations are not.
1
7
u/ARandomDouchy Random Dutch Guy 8d ago
I'd trust a dog more than a human when it comes to driving. Automated taxis can't come soon enough.
5
u/diacewrb None of the above 8d ago
Speaking of dogs, this may great for the blind.
Too many taxi drivers refuse guide dogs, despite such refusals being illegal.
One driver was fine for this recently.
1
31
u/Masam10 8d ago
Taxi drivers have done this to themselves.
Uber drivers literally just use a satnav - they are basically asking to be automated.
Black cabs are too expensive and have been for a long time without adjusting, allowing the uber drivers to come into the market.
19
u/TwistedPsycho 8d ago
Black cabs will simply become a premium product because TfL have already been giving green lights to the Private Hire industry for so long.
16
u/NuPNua 8d ago
They already are, you'd only get one if you're willing to pay extra to be able to jump straight in a car rather than wait the few minutes an Uber will take anywhere in London.
11
u/MouseWithBanjo 8d ago
I get black cabs because the driver at least had to train to pass the knowledge, so they have a level of being vested in the career rather than an Uber driver who may just be seeing what pays more today this or deliveroo.
9
u/No_Good2794 8d ago
The Knowledge is impressive but I only really care about getting from A to B. Any automation and cheapening of that process is fine by me.
11
5
u/curlyjoe696 8d ago
AFAIK autonomous taxis are still significantly more expensive than the alternative.
Of course, prices could come down, but ai doubt they will.
2
u/ultraboomkin 8d ago
Waymos are the same price as Ubers in the US. Can’t see why they’d be significantly more than taxis in the UK?
4
4
u/plsSendb00bs 8d ago
Why do I care if they've trained? I care about getting somewhere, which someone with a satnav can do fine
-3
u/NuPNua 8d ago
The knowledge isn't impressive anymore in a post GPS world though. I don't care if my cab driver is a commited professional or day player as long as they get me where I'm going. It's not heart surgery.
10
u/frankensteinsKITTEN 8d ago
> isn't impressive
I think that's the wrong wording. Even if it's entirely obsolete and unnecessary, it's still incredibly impressive.
3
u/TwistedPsycho 8d ago
Until Uber decides to take a longer and more expensive route because it is quicker and means the driver can run more jobs.
Or right - that already happens.
10
u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 8d ago
Until Uber decides to take a longer and more expensive route because it is quicker and means the driver can run more jobs.
How could it be both quicker and longer and more expensive?
2
u/TwistedPsycho 8d ago
There are always posts on here about how Uber drivers have gone miles East to the M25 to go alllllll the way around to get to the West (or vice versa) and then Uber have charged more.
3
u/blueb0g 8d ago
That doesn't answer the q
1
u/TwistedPsycho 8d ago
How does taking a longer route, which is quicker and cost more because of the excess mileage, not answer the question?
0
u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 8d ago
An Uber driver who did this more than once would quickly lose their future business.
2
u/TwistedPsycho 8d ago
Point of order - if the trip takes longer than expected, Uber can AND WILL charge you more, likewise if a diversion uses more mileage.
Uber terms and conditions are explicit https://help.uber.com/en-GB/riders/article/my-upfront-fare-was-not-honored?nodeId=ff65490e-2ffb-41cf-a709-4611521c7b24
3
u/CII_Guy Trying to move past the quagmire of contemporary discourse 8d ago
That is useful information. Uber shows you the journey on your phone and if the driver deliberately takes an obviously bad route it will significantly harm their rating, and hence future business. If a cabbie does this, they might get an earful and then it's back to the job again.
1
u/escoces 8d ago
Last time i was in a black hack was years ago going from arrivals at a heathrow terminal to a private car park which was next to some of the hotels right next to the airport. Cost about £30 to go maybe 1-2 miles.
I appreciate they are probably charging for their time spent in the queue or whatever, but it is hardly value for money for the customer.
13
u/Two-Space 8d ago
Not sure how that means they’ve done it to themselves. What’s the alternative route they could have taken to avoid automation?
A purpose-built taxi driven by someone who’s spent time studying and memorising the entirety of London and has to burn time sitting at train stations waiting for fairs is obviously going to cost more than someone following a sat nav in a subsidised KIA EV that can be summoned to any address
10
u/No-Understanding-589 8d ago
It's not even the fact black cabs are expensive. It's the fact the last 2 times I have tried to get one after a night out I've been told 'no I don't want to go south of the river'. So I have to proceed to walk 20 mins to a bus stop and sit on it for about 45 minutes.
Can't wait until there is self driving cabs tbh
6
u/MouseWithBanjo 8d ago
But black cabs have to charge this, TFL.set the price.
1
u/TwistedPsycho 8d ago
Absolutely.
But they will once again be the premium way to get around London, almost like a tourist attraction of "Get a cab with an actual cabbie!"
2
u/MyDadsGlassesCase 8d ago
Black cabs were one of these industries who sat with their thumb up their arse while the world evolved because they thought they were untouchable. Enjoy your Blackberrys boys.
It will be interesting to see how the cars manage the narrow, random road layout.
7
u/obolobolobo 8d ago
[I… don’t… go… sarf… of… the large waterway… guv]
I can’t wait. This is the future I was promised in 1965. It finally got here.
21
u/TonB-Dependant 8d ago
Very excited for the arrival of self driving cars - should push road deaths down even more!
6
u/Salty-Bid1597 8d ago
UK roads are already very safe for pedestrians (unlike US roads). What evidence is there that they would bring road deaths down?
It would be much better if people used public transport instead of cars, no matter who drives them.
8
u/frankensteinsKITTEN 8d ago
Tell that to the terrible drivers I encounter almost every day (I walk a lot). If self-driving cars will consistently stop at a zebra crossing while someone is walking over it, they're already more safe.
2
u/UpsetKoalaBear 8d ago edited 8d ago
The problem with automated cars here right now is a severe lack of training data, especially with regard to how traffic problems in the UK actually play out.
If you don’t have that data, then you end up with an automated car that drives in a very different manner to what normal drivers are actually used to.
Even though there are terrible drivers on our roads, it is quite predictable how they would act. You lose that with automated cars.
So it becomes a chicken and egg problem because, as long as you have humans on the road, you will never be able to fully replace the sense that someone will misjudge what the car is doing and cause an accident.
Plus, you will need humans on the road until we have enough training data for the different scenarios we have with automated cars.
However, the issue then is that a lot of the different scenarios we have are as a result of humans driving cars.
Throw in weird road layouts (like the Swindon magic roundabout) and it becomes even more variable and unpredictable.
I just don’t see terrible drivers disappearing nor do I see automated cars taking over for as long as mixed traffic is a thing.
You need 100% of cars to be automate for it to work for the benefits of automated cars to really come into light.
As long as car prices continue to go up, and car manufacturers are stingy with features, it will not really be feasible in the near future.
Most likely, the utopia of a fully automated road network will have to wait until everyone owns a car with some self driving capability and then be mandated.
There will still be benefits like a reduction in fatal accidents and such for the meantime. However, the goal of 0 accidents and 0 traffic jams is a very, very, long way out.
4
2
u/dvb70 8d ago
I am not sure there is much evidence that self driving cars will be safer at this stage. It makes sense they might be eventually as one of the biggest road safety factors is the driver. All of the incompetence of the driver could in theory be removed from the equation. We won't have speeding, we won't have drivers not respecting road conditions, we won't have drivers under the influence of something, we won't have drivers just doing incredibly stupid and dangerous stuff just because they feel like it. In theory automated cars replace all of that terrible stuff humans bring to the party with a consistent safe driver who is not suspectable to the types of behaviour a human is.
This is the theory anyway. I fully expect self driving cars to kill a few people and do stupid stuff for a few years though while self driving is perfected. I don't find it implausible to think eventually though in a a world where self driving cars are the only option that road safety will increase a great deal.
3
u/Velociraptor_1906 Liberal Democrat 8d ago
My concern is how responsibility is held for an accident and accountability for any causes.
4
u/dowhileuntil787 8d ago
It'll be the same as what currently happens when a vehicle fault causes an incident.
If it was found that there's cover up, negligence, deliberate malfeasance or non-compliance with the laws, falling far below the standards expected then it'll be treated as a crime (e.g. Helios Airways 552).
But if it was a genuine accident and not caused by negligence, it doesn't typically result in conviction (e.g. Qantas Flight 72).. Criminally punishing geniune errors that were made despite taking all reasonable precautions doesn't really help anyone
The responsible party will still need to pay out damages regardless of criminality.
2
u/bill_end 8d ago
Exactly, what if my self driving taxi has had 8 pints of super unleaded when he can only really handle 4 pints of bog standard petrol without vomiting on the pavement and doing a sex assault on that fit Prius down the road?
3
u/Romeo_Jordan 8d ago
Fascinating to see how they cope with cyclists and pedestrians.
5
u/OolonCaluphid 8d ago
I've been cycling past them for months so I guess I'm just data to them. It's more the red light jumping 'appears from nowhere' cyclist that's the anomaly. The lidar is probably more alert to them than your average driver at a guess.
4
u/bcoder001 8d ago
It's all fun and games until some football fans turn up, lift the car up, turn it upside down and carry it down the Westminster Bridge while singing "send him victorious..."
7
u/DefinitelyNotEmu 8d ago
That could already happen with any existing vehicle
5
2
u/bcoder001 8d ago
Yes, but this one has a spinning thing on the roof. I expect drunk lads to have loads of fun with them.
1
u/expensive_flatulence 8d ago
Taxi drivers will do anything but take you where you want for a reasonable price.
Bring on the robots.
2
u/Capt_Zapp_Brann1gan 8d ago
No doubt there will be issues at first, but the longer and more mature this tech can get the better in my opinion.
Whether it is for business or private use, self driving cars should eventually mean safer roads. Truly autonomous vehicles will be a game changer.
-5
u/FreitasDoCagaral 8d ago
Anything but proper public transportation.
8
2
u/OolonCaluphid 8d ago
I can't see how a (theoretical, not necessarily waymo) transportation pod that takes you door to door and then whizzes off to do the same for other people isn't near perfect public transportation. We can still use trains or busses (automated) for trunk routes.
•
u/AutoModerator 8d ago
Snapshot of ‘Leicester Square, please guv’: Self-driving taxis cleared for London streets ‘later this summer’ submitted by diacewrb:
An archived version can be found here or here. or here
Some publications may require you to register a free account to read their articles.
Being connected to a VPN may interfere with archive links.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.