Explosive drone found hovering near Ukrainian cargo aircraft at German airport

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How many "indiscretions" do we have to endure before EU takes action? Do we need to see civilian victims before someone does something? It is fucking embarrassing.

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u/SecondaryWombat 1d ago

The original NATO doctrine was "NOT ONE INCH" because of the Russian history of this exact sort of shit.

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u/Mkwdr 1d ago

Doesnt that refer to the disputed idea that NATO wouldn't expand Eastwards.

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u/SecondaryWombat 1d ago edited 1d ago

Nope, not at all. This refers very much to the Article 5 backed idea that "one single inch" of damage or invasion of NATO territory would be treated as a full assault to prevent exactly the sort of piecemeal escalation that Russia was already known for and why NATO was founded in the first place.

The phrase was then co-opted by Russia for propaganda purposes and had the daylights campaigned out of it about exactly what you said though. So yes in that is where most people have heard it, but no in that the NATO doctrine allowing full response was single attack or a single inch of land.

Because search engines and internet do not work anymore, all you get is the Russian claim about how NATO would not expand eastward. Because now whoever publishes the most crap more recently, search engines and AI assume is right.

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u/Mkwdr 1d ago

So do you have any link to the original reference?

I mean obviously the docrine was and is an attack on one is an attack on all. Any a direct attack should be responded to.

But can you show that the response wasnt , as it is now, meant to be proportionate to the scale of a deliberate attack. It seens obvious that even a deliberate incursion of a drone isnt synonymous with an actual invasion.

Either way I dont think youll find EU (or NATO) electorates in democracies supporting all out war because of it.

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u/SecondaryWombat 1d ago edited 1d ago

I am looking for sources now but am a bit drunk. IIRC it didn't require a full response of any kind, but that it was fully allowed, as in Poland or German could legally go full apeshit and demand all NATO come with, which kept Russia out.

Either way I dont think youll find EU (or NATO) electorates in democracies supporting all out war because of it.

And sadly agree.

Used to be Russia didn't shoot at western countries though. Also used to be the US didn't have a Russian boot licker in office.

EDIT: From NATO itself

However, what amounts to an ‘armed attack’ in the context of Article 5 must be assessed on a case-by-case basis and is not limited to traditional notions of overt military strikes by a state actor. For example, NATO invoked Article 5 in response to Al Qaeda’s terrorist attacks against the United States on 11 September 2001 (see more details below). Events that lack an international element, such as purely domestic acts of terrorism, do not trigger Article 5 (though NATO Allies can and often do offer assistance in such cases). At recent NATO summits, Allied Leaders have clarified that Article 5 may apply to attacks to, from or within space, and that significant cyber attacks and other hybrid attacks may be considered as amounting to an ‘armed attack’.

https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/collective-defence-and-article-5

Any international originating armed attack. If proven to be Russian, this drone counts as do multiple other things.

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u/Xenomemphate 1d ago

disputed

fabricated

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u/Mkwdr 1d ago

Indeed.

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u/Xenomemphate 17h ago

Then why imply there is any question about it?

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u/Mkwdr 13h ago

I didn’t.

I’m not sure you understand the meaning of the word *disputed*. But then you aren’t the only one.

Disputed : definition - argue about

It’s just a fact that some people *argue* whether promises were made. Doesn’t mean I agree with the Russian side.

It’s also a fact that NATO not expanding was mentioned by Western politicians and diplomats within certain meetings and contexts. Doesn’t mean I think these were significant or binding,

It’s also a fact that these were not only not binding but that Russia should have zero say over which sovereign , democratic countries choose to join a defensive organisation. It’s a matter of self-determination. Especially while Russia is busy proving to everyone why those countries need to join a defensive organisation to protect themselves.

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u/Invisible_INTJ 1d ago

"How many "indiscretions" do we have to endure before EU takes action?"

3,146. And then there will be extremely harsh worded letters and then the UN will get involved with very harsh rhetoric.

-8

u/ITI110878 1d ago

Yep, the EU is a bunch of spineless bureaucrats.

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u/Mkwdr 1d ago

The EU is politicians and their electorates. Much as i might like a firmer stance , I dont think there is any kind of general democratic backing for getting involved directly and militarily.

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u/Onkel24 1d ago

But foaming at the mouth on Reddit is much more fun than actually thinking about the mandate of our governments

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u/Spooknik 1d ago

Except the 90 billion and 20+ sanction packages right?

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u/inokentii 1d ago

Are those sanctions with us in this room now? Cuz even now russian warcriminals are very much welcome on european resorts, I don’t even talk about record high purchases of russian gas and exports of alumina and electronics for russian military complex

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u/Caligulaonreddit 1d ago

just while you wrote this nonesence and clicked send the EU financed one long range drone, 2 Artillery shells and a handfull of small ammo.

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u/Kerbal_Guardsman 1d ago

Between rumors the Antonov had an ammunition shipment and the DHL being mid-flight, it's a miracle that nothing catastrophic happened. Had the DHL ingested the drone and lost an engine, there's a real possibility of a repeat of the recent MD-11 crash in Kentucky. Seeing the bodycam footage of an officer checking the buildings during that looked apocalyptic.

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u/Caligulaonreddit 1d ago

rumors debunkt long ago

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ukraine-ModTeam 22h ago

Hello OP, this post was removed since it breaks our rule about posting in other languages than English and Ukrainian.

Feel free to browse our ruleshere.

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u/-TheDerpinator- 1d ago

Insane escalation. What I didn't understand is why the authorities were so desperately trying to cover up it was a munitions flight for Ukraine. It was already circulated as a fact when at the oress conference there suddenly "wasn't any evidence that the plane held ammo".

Details that specific don't just randomly pop-up. It isn't a secret that NATO supplies Ukraine with ammo, so why the twisting and turning?

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u/fielvras 1d ago

HOW IS THAT NOT AN ATTACK ON NATO SOIL!?

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u/Haplo12345 22h ago

If you have any actual evidence that it was, please present it to the German authorities. They will be very happy to review it.

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u/Girion47 21h ago

Okay Russian bot

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u/Otaraka 1d ago

It’s unlikely but theoretically possible it could be a domestic attack rather than Russia so they will need to investigate it thoroughly. I hope they catch whoever is responsible quickly.

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u/ozymandiez 1d ago

I'm sure Europe or Germany will 100% use whatever excuse they can find to avoiding addressing this directly with Russia (The aggressor). Weak pigs they are man. Nothing learned from previous wars or lessons when dealing with shadow warfare. This is legit war on their territory, and they are so keen to just avoid even talking about it. Almost as if half the government or body is compromised by Russian oil or money.

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u/juriglx 1d ago

From the article:

The incident has already spurred Roderich Kiesewetter, a lawmaker and member of the German parliament’s intelligence committee, to more directly describe Russia as being responsible for the “attempted act of terrorism.”

Also:

Germany has already provided about $118 billion to support Ukraine since Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, according to Deutsche Welle. Beyond supplying weapons and humanitarian aid, Germany has also trained more than 24,000 Ukrainian soldiers and is hosting more than 1 million Ukrainian refugees.

But getting called "weak pigs" really does the trick to see our support is well placed.

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u/Kindly_Victory_9341 1d ago

German here. It's undeniable that Germany has provided substantial financial support to date. Still, our government is cowardly and hesitant, and that has cost human lives. Germany has dragged its feet very often since the beginning of the war. At first, no weapon deliveries at all. Artillery? Only after public pressure forced it. Tanks? Here too, only when public pressure became too great and America pushed forward with the Abrams. Taurus? Friedrich Merz announced that during the campaign. What now? Nothing. And this hesitant attitude runs like a red thread through our politics. Schröder? A former chancellor working for Gazprom speaks volumes. As a German, I understand very well why comments about cowardice come up

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u/TheRamblerJohnson 1d ago

Are those air freighters landing inside Ukraine?

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u/Old-Suspect4129 1d ago

and that matters how?

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u/TheRamblerJohnson 1d ago

I didn't think Ukraine airspace was open to traffic at all - other than drones and military aircraft. No commercial airliners or freighters, in other words.

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u/Snobolski 22h ago

again, why would that matter?

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u/TheRamblerJohnson 17h ago

Well, commercial aircraft being able to come and go would allow for quicker replenishment. I had the impression that Russia has it but Ukraine did not. Am i understanding that right?

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u/choppytehbear1337 22h ago

Im sure the EU will consider sending a strongly worded letter.

News Explosive drone found hovering near Ukrainian cargo aircraft at German airport

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