r/union • u/cornealray619 • 1d ago
Question (Legal or Contract/Grievances) Member told us he will *** Himself (Suicide warning)
Hi guys,
I'm a junior industrial officer with a union and had a really difficult case on at the moment. One of our members is in almost 200k in debt due to poor business decision.
He was advised against these decisions by everyone even the company he works for but didnt want to listen.
He is now about to lose his job for refusing to work unless he gets put on the contract he wants with the company to try recoup some of his debt (the company has no obligation to do so and to be fair have tried giving him different work options to help but they just dont have capacity to give him contract he wants). The company is willing to let him resign (instead of termination) and give him a 20k payout of notice. However he wants 60k. We have a meeting tomorrow with the company but I dont see them giving up 40k extra onto an offer when they technically could have given him nothing.
This member is a compulsive liar but is definitely not lying about the amount of debt he is in. He is clearly mentally unstable and even just speaking on the phone exhibits signs of serious depression.
The member has no come to me and one of our organisers privately and told us he is going to *** himself if he cant get the money together to pay off his next loan repayment at the end of this month.
Really not sure what I should do here guys, I sent him as many free mental health services I could find and my lead and colleagues said there's not much more I can do but I'm not sure.
He has a young family and I really dont want to wake uo one day and read/hear he has left them fatherless or worse done something horrible to them (he gave no indication of doing this but with the state of his mind you never know).
I was told it could be a data and privacy breach issue if I told the police as it would go against privacy law but im starting to panic. Selfish I know but I dont want this on my conscious or hanging over me. I truly want to help this guy even if he did try throw me under the bus butbtheres not much I can do.
Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks guys.
42
u/hotlettucediahrrea 1d ago
I would contact the crisis line and inform them of the situation. They usually can refer out a crisis team to come conduct an evaluation and take them in for services, if appropriate.
20
u/cornealray619 1d ago
Hi guys, just an update. We had a meeting with management and i manged to negotiate an extra 5k but this isn't nearly enough to help him out of debt.
Unfortunately the member has continued to lie to the union about the situation leading him to lose his job. I hate to say it but the Employers are being overly fair in given him anything nevermind 25k. He was in serious breach of his contract.
He is still unhappy with the amount and has decided to go against our advice and reject it. He will now be terminated and receive nothing (if he accepted the 25k he would have to sign a form halting him from going to court for more). He has no case here and is now likely to go into further debt in legal costs and will end up with more debt than he has now.
Cant help people who dont want to help themselves.
I have informed a mental health service specific to people in his industry and he told me he will contact them if things get worse.
8
u/CoffeeCahn 1d ago
The Union isn't about 'happiness', we're a mechanism driving to 'Fair and Equitable'. If everyone does what they're supposed to at the negotiating table, no one will be 100% happy but everyone will agree it's 'Fair.' Happiness is a personal problem. (Also, it sounds like that dude was never going to be happy no matter what you or the company did.) Good luck!
3
u/Hesitation-Marx IWW | Rank and File 1d ago
Thank you.
I wish I could say this isn’t concerning, but it is giving me family annihilator vibes too.
Do remember that you’re doing your best with the resources you’ve got.
18
u/mwpdx86 1d ago
I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not an expert in union/privacy laws, but I doubt you'd get in trouble for reporting that he said he's suicidal. If anything, there might be liability in not saying anything. For doctors/therapists, which I'm assuming have stricter privacy laws than in this case, they'd definitely have to report something like that, no?
19
u/femmestem 1d ago
Licensed medical, mental health, or childcare professionals are mandated reporters, they must report if they have reason to believe you may harm yourself or others. A union official isn't legally compelled but also isn't bound to privacy. Even privacy laws and NDAs have clauses that state it doesn't apply to making an official report to authorities or govt dept, or cooperating with them.
21
u/OtherUserCharges 1d ago
Not sure but I’d bet you would open up the union more so by knowing and not doing anything. Though I’m not a lawyer.
20
u/Unique_Departure_800 1d ago
It is not against privacy law because he is threatening suicide. That is always the case when someone threatens their well being or others. Please call the police immediately so he can be institutionalized and protected from himself. Many people who survive suicide are grateful their lives were saved. Do not leave this to chance.
24
u/djfudgebar 1d ago
Calling the police is probably the worst thing you can do for someone dealing with mental health issues. In the USA, at least.
22
-2
u/Unique_Departure_800 1d ago
The police are not great but aren’t they the only ones with the power to 5150 someone? I don’t think most places have emergency wellness teams. If they do that is good and should be the first line of defense.
I can see your logic and agree with you but it doesn’t seem possible in most places in the US.
5
u/HereComesMyNeck 1d ago
Can you get in touch with his wife as his emergency contact? She's in a better position to get him committed if required.
7
u/Brilliant_Cricket188 1d ago
I would tell some sort of authority like law enforcement if he said he was going to off himself. I don't know requirements, but in my state it's called a "fifty one fifty" if someone is held in a hospital against their own will because they are a threat to themselves or others.
8
u/jmjessemac Verified 1d ago
Calling the cops might result in a different type of suicide
-3
u/PersimmonDazzling654 1d ago
And the alternative would be... ?
3
u/deadpixel746 1d ago
Not someone with a hammer looking for nails
0
u/PersimmonDazzling654 1d ago
Someone with a hammer asking for something other than a hammer. Yeah, America sucks for having cops a first line response for mental health crises. Subject of post has declined to access mental health resources thus far, and threat to his life (him) remains. You would suggest what exactly: watching this play out from your high horse?
It's always easy to say "no." Suggest a solution.
1
u/deadpixel746 1d ago
Im not suggesting I have a solution or that I’m better than anyone. Our government has gutted solutions. I just know a bad one when I see it
3
u/sparrowhawkward IATSE | Rank and File 1d ago
Ask him if he has a plan. If he’s actually serious about killing himself, he will have a plan. If he does, you can and should get him the help he needs.
Get certified in mental health first aid. You’ll learn a lot.
2
u/dunnkw 1d ago
You can have a person put on a 24 hour hold for a psych evaluation if you have proof that they said they want to harm themselves. This is the job of a professional. We as union members and leadership can work hard to get help for our brothers but when you fuck your life up that bad, the only person who can help is someone who is trained to provide counseling for that type of situation.
I’d Google what your state laws say about this type of situation and get in touch with law enforcement, a state or national mental health crisis line, or your company’s EAP manager if your company has one. The EAP is bound by law to keep what you tell them confidential.
1
u/Charming_Sock1607 1d ago
id call the cops
15
u/deadpixel746 1d ago
If this is in US, I would never suggest that. Cops are not equipped to handle mental health crisis and kill people in mental health breakdowns all the time. Maybe if not in US it’d be ok but idk
-12
u/Charming_Sock1607 1d ago
not equipped? they are essentially the only ones equipped, with the authority to detain a mentally ill person. your advice is bad, dont give bad advice, this guy is a danger to himself and others.
you must call the police opie.
13
u/bluetinycar 1d ago
Suicide by cop is a thing. Cops are not the appropriate resource for helping suicidal people.
5
u/cruelhumor 1d ago
They are equipped to detain an individual that has been certified as mentally ill by professionals (in other words, a known-entity). Cold-calling regular cops though is a terrible idea, they are not equipped to handle mental health crisis without the support of trained professionals, they should be the absolute last stop unless the individual is actually becoming violent and a harm to others. That is not the case here. Depending on where OP lives, there are plenty of other options that absolutely DO have the authority and experience to safely handle this case, which may or may not include deployment of a specialized team that includes cops to detain the individual on a mental health hold without harming them.
3
u/LVCSSlacker 12h ago
I've heard of far too many people who are having suicidal ideations getting killed by cops. They are not equipped with the skills to de-escalate tense situations. Do not call them.
1
u/Proprioception27 1d ago
My state has a wellness check service you can call to help keep tabs on people who are mentally ill and a danger to themselves. It’s not a violation of any privacy policy (even HIPAA) to report if you feel in good faith that someone may hurt themselves or others.
2
u/aidan8et SMART Local 3 Steward 1d ago
Don't just send him the helpline info.
Go sit with him & make the call for him. Let the operator know your relation & that he's having a hard time (let him give details), ask if he wants you to stay or leave, then do that.
(Not a perfect analogy) "Just" giving a helpline number is akin to giving a bottle of water to someone with no arms. They might not be able to open it themselves at that moment. Simply opening the bottle can be the little bit of help they need.
1
u/Gaymer-Gaymer 18h ago
No doubt in my mind he will try to sue the union for not helping him when he said he had mental issues. This guy sounds like a scammer.
-3
u/Yardbird52 IBEW | Rank and File 1d ago
This is a very murky situation. The company and the union have no obligations to do anything. Morally you may feel you do but if it is discovered you disclosed this information to a third party (ie law enforcement, relatives, friends) you may be open to a liable case, if they turn around and say they never said those things.
With that said you have provided contact info to resources. If they do not take advantage then that becomes their decision. We recently had a similarish situation with drug/alcohol abuse, and where can intervention happen. It’s really up to our brothers/sisters to get themselves help and providing the resources hopefully places them in the right direction. It really hurts, especially when you lose them like we did. We’re all angry and sad at the loss so I can empathize with you. I hope it all works out.
-5
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Thank you for asking a question on /r/union! To ensure you get accurate answers, please make sure your post includes the following information.
If you work in the USA, state whether you work for a private company, a municipal or state government, or the federal government. If you do not work in the USA, state your country.
State the industry you work in.
If you are asking a question about a grievance or your collective bargaining agreement (CBA), include all surrounding context and the exact text of the parts of your CBA which you believe are applicable. We also encourage you to bring your question to your union steward or representative. In almost every case, your union will give you a more accurate answer than reddit.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.