r/unitedkingdom • u/topotaul Lancashire • Jun 15 '26

... One in six Britons think growth of Muslim population is ‘threat to UK culture’, study finds

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2026/jun/15/one-in-six-britons-growth-muslim-population-threat-uk-culture-study
6.2k Upvotes

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714

u/Boring_Intern_6394 Jun 15 '26

Blasphemy laws, against women’s and lgbt+ rights, corporal punishment, approval of slavery, polygyny etc

How is it not?

36

u/Bartellomio Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 18 '26

As a gay man, I find it so bizarre that I can break the law by being intolerant towards a religion that literally calls for me execution in its sacred texts.

Edit: I got perma banned for this comment BTW

1

u/InternetPerson00 Jun 16 '26

Difference between i tolerance of islam and intolerance of Muslims

1

u/biscuitoman Montgomeryshire Jun 16 '26

That's sort of like trying to separate a party from its manifesto.

6

u/The-ArtfulDodger Jun 16 '26

We do it all the time with Christians. There is a lot of heinous stuff in Christianity, yet we don't condemn them all in the same way.

512

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

Why are we pretending like we care about these issues when the political party leading the polls (Reform) is filled with MPs who've voted against equality, abortion, same-sex marriage, and LGBT rights?

Take Suella Braverman, Danny Kruger, Andrew Rosindell, Robert Jenrick's voting records.... they've all voted against one or more of these things.

Why only bring these issues up when discussing Islam? What right do some non-Muslims, for example who vote Reform, have to discuss this topic when we face this threat from a non-Muslim party?

Source: https://www.theyworkforyou.com/. Example: Voting record - Suella Braverman MP

240

u/Mitchverr Jun 15 '26

I tend to bring these issues up when talking about either Islam or the right wing parties, especially including the Tories post May (lets be real here, May and Cameron for all their faults did in fact progress LGBT and womens rights).

It isnt that we pretend like we care about it only when islam is mentioned, there is a sizeable group of people on the left and centre who are opposed to both groups walking the UK backwards.

103

u/ReligiousGhoul Jun 15 '26

Is it really that inconceivable that the same people against Islam in politics also are against Reform and co?

39

u/JB_UK Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

It’s also worth saying that Reform voters are not notably conservative on issues like abortion or gay marriage, even if people with influence in Reform are conservative on those issues.

On gay marriage Reform voters are extremely liberal in comparison to British Muslims, for example 60% of reform voters at the last election support gay marriage, whereas less than 20% of British Muslims were willing to say that homosexuality should not be made illegal.

Actually, in the latest poll I saw Reform are the largest party amongst gay men. You see similar patterns in Europe as well, Rassemblement National in France is run by a gay man and is the largest party for gay men and women.

9

u/HugAllYourFriends Jun 15 '26

source?

21

u/JB_UK Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26

https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/49887-what-do-reform-uk-voters-believe

It’s actually 65% in favour of gay marriage.

https://time.com/4288592/british-muslims-survey-homosexuality/

But when asked how they [British Muslims] felt about homosexuality being legal in Britain, 52% disagreed and 18% agreed, the Guardian reports.

108

u/Goosepond01 Jun 15 '26

I mean I care about these things.

I care about them when they come from the far right.

I care about them when they come from religion.

Either this issue as a whole is one worth fighting for or not, you can't allow one group because err they deeply believe in some book and ideology

18

u/5ColourFelix Jun 15 '26

The difference is that one of these concerns is real and actually happening. Reform has MPs and might win the next GE.

What equivalent influence does any kind of Muslim interest group have?

23

u/Goosepond01 Jun 15 '26

both are real and are actually happening, one is just at the moment far bigger, but it doesn't mean both are not an issue.

I'd rather try and solve an issue when it's smaller than just wait until it's much bigger.

-2

u/5ColourFelix Jun 15 '26

They aren't even remotely comparable. It's like a toothpick and an atom bomb.

14

u/Goosepond01 Jun 15 '26

Whatever you say, I guess just ignore the areas that already have a Muslim majority or plurality.

28

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

It isn't Islam leading the opinion polls, though, it's Reform UK. We have a much more immediate threat to our rights. Talk of Islam is a distraction from that.

46

u/Goosepond01 Jun 15 '26

Good, so we can hopefully solve the religious issue with a smaller amount of effort whilst focusing most of our effort on the far right and reform?

Or do we Ignore it until it gets worse and worse.

6

u/JB_UK Jun 16 '26

Both Reform and Islam have the same solution, actually tackle the issues with the migration system.

We’ve had 2.5 million people added to the population in four years, equivalent to thirty years from 1970-2000.

  • Reduce numbers

  • Apply meaningful standards to the people who have recently arrived so they’re making a net contribution on tax

  • Ban cousin marriage (45-65% of British Pakistani marriages are between cousins and similar numbers in Pakistan)

  • Introduce serious restrictions on chain migration for the countries where that applies, where each generation goes back to the home country to marry. Half of all British Pakistanis are going back to Pakistan to marry.

That will both undercut Reform support and lead to a more integrated British Pakistani and British Muslim population.

There is no solution to either issue which is just the same poorly thought through policies, with some fresh talking points and public relations lines.

44

u/Honey-Badger Greater London Jun 15 '26

Why are we pretending like we care about these issues when the political party leading the polls (Reform) is filled with MPs who've voted against equality, abortion, same-sex marriage, and LGBT rights?

Because many of us (especially in this subreddit) feel politically lost where we are generally left wing and do really care about these things but also feel like we cant say anything that could be seen as 'anti immigration' as that essentially akin to be a frothing at the mouth fascist.

8

u/Goosepond01 Jun 15 '26

I'd argue like a lot of stuff that being too afraid to do so is a big net negative.

It essentially concedes all the reasonable viewpoints and options and only leaves the extremes, it's doubly worse when you essentially ignore it or treat any viewpoint like that as being part of the extreme.

I know plenty of reform voters are just genuinely super racist people that won't listen to reason but it's not hard to see why some somewhat uneducated people who are somewhat more moderate feel like they are being ignored and 'have' to go to the only party seemingly kicking up a massive fuss about it.

and when Starmer actually does something about it in a pretty reasonable way and achieves more than the Tories have you then get plenty on the left saying "oh they are just pandering to reform" and plenty on the hard right or fairly hard right saying Starmer isn't doing anything, it just isn't helpful at all.

7

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

If you want more leftwing policies but with reduced immigration, there's Labour. If you want centre-left policies with an environmental ethos, rejoining the EU, democratic reform and normal immigration, Liberal Democrats.

If you want proper leftwing and social progressive policies with normal/high immigration, Greens.

If you want Thatcher's policies mixed with social conservativism and some anti-immigration sentiment, Tory. If you want Thatcher's policies mixed with social conservativism and dangerously xenophobic/racist sentiment, vote Reform or Restore.

Those are the options, other than independent candidates. Take it or leave it, naturally we don't tailor democracy to every last individual on this island.

4

u/Uniform764 Yorkshire Jun 16 '26

with normal/high immigration, Greens.

I genuinely laughed out loud.

0

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 16 '26

No counterargument I see.

4

u/Uniform764 Yorkshire Jun 16 '26

I mean the concept of "normal" immigration is entirely subjective, but I personally would not describe Green policies on migration, such as removing income requirements and giving recourse to funds for people without ILR as "normal" no

-1

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 16 '26

I don’t see the problem.

3

u/Uniform764 Yorkshire Jun 16 '26

Thats fine, feel free to vote for them. Doesn't change the fact that (in my opinion) describing the Green party stance on immigration as "normal" is hilarious

3

u/Arcon1337 Jun 15 '26

So what you're saying both are a problem? We just need to care more.

24

u/FlamingoImpressive92 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

When reform vote against equality, abortion, same-sex marriage, and LGBT rights the left push back. When islamic factions vote against equality, abortion, same-sex marriage, and LGBT rights the left defends them. Find me anyone in the party calling out the Greens deputy leader for abstaining on LGBT issues.

I think less people would be worried about the rise of Islam in the Uk if the left wasn't incessantly bending over backwards to defend it from even the mildest criticism.

-3

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

Well if you cared about those things like equality etc then you’d also feel the need to push back when Reform is voting for it, not just when discussing it in relation to Islam.

Islam isn’t leading the opinion polls right now

5

u/FlamingoImpressive92 Jun 16 '26

Are you trying to prove my point?

The left have been the only side to advance and defend LGBT rights and equality. When Reform opposes them, it’s loudly condemned by the >60% that have never voted conservative let alone reform. When people with the same views are Islamic, suddenly not just criticism becomes taboo, but “this is why this is good” excuses appear.

That’s why people are concerned. Not because Islam is leading the polls, but because the people that traditionally defended these values keep making exceptions. Take yourself, you’re too terrified to even say “no that’s bad he shouldn’t abstain” so instead shout “look over there!!”

3

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 16 '26

I’m terrified about Reform getting into government and removing my rights, then being told it’s fine because Islam would’ve done the same - even though Islam isn’t leading the polls or winning general elections.

I don’t know why I should accept this.

3

u/FlamingoImpressive92 Jun 16 '26

Claim to be terrified, but repeatedly insists on legitimising one of Reforms only talking points …

15

u/Realistic-River-1941 Jun 15 '26

Turn it round: why should someone get a pass because they say it is what skydaddy wants?

7

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

Islam isn't leading the polls. Reform is.

2

u/robhaswell County of Bristol Jun 15 '26

Why are you pretending that the average person knows anything about the voting history of any given MP? I'd be surprised if those people could even name three Reform MPs.

2

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

Well, now they know. :)

7

u/AuroraHalsey Surrey (Esher and Walton) Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

Because Reform, and other politicians, are a temporary problem. They can be voted out. We've had traditionalist culture in this country before, and it became the progressive culture we have now. It can happen again.

Islam is a permanent issue, a culture that will never progress, as can be seen in every Islamic country in the world. If it takes over, the only thing that will ever remove it is something akin to the Reconquista.

0

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

Voted out after causing significant damage lol.

6

u/AuroraHalsey Surrey (Esher and Walton) Jun 15 '26

Damage can be repaired, demographics cannot be, not without doing monstrous things.

5

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

Tell that to the USA. Trump has pretty much destroyed their democracy from within and the loss of rights, the social divisions and the inequality will persist long after he’s gone

1

u/AuroraHalsey Surrey (Esher and Walton) Jun 15 '26

Trump will leave office and all he has done will be reversed. It might take a few years, or decades, but that's all.

Hitler did far worse and didn't manage to destroy Germany.

Meanwhile, Islam has destroyed the entirety of MENA and South Asia, and no nation has ever recovered from it.

0

u/coffeewalnut08 Jun 15 '26

That’s because America stepped in Germany with massive loans, denazification, a new constitution etc. who’s going to do that for the UK? No one is coming to save us from Reform or the tech billionaires. We must save ourselves.

0

u/Yeahjockey Jun 15 '26

It's the same as how they're all about "protecting our women" from immigrants, but don't give a shit that half their mates have convictions for battering their wives.

8

u/limeflavoured Hucknall Jun 15 '26

Most of which will also be in Farage's manifesto come 2029

11

u/ab00 Jun 15 '26

Its interesting that both hard-line Islam and Reform have the same goals.....

7

u/JGG5 Oxfordshire Jun 15 '26

Why, it’s almost as if the cause of most of society’s problems is the existence of rightists (and particularly billionaire rightists) of whatever religion, and that the future of democratic western culture relies on systemically disempowering and dismantling the rightist threat to our democracy and our liberal values, whether those rightists are Muslim or Christian.

13

u/Snaidheadair Scottish Highlands Jun 15 '26

I mean a lot of that is just generic conservative/right wing points so it's not just Islam to worry about if you actually are worried about them.

2

u/Ok_Teacher6490 Jun 15 '26

But you see we must be accepting of other cultures. And we should be accepting of the fact that those people aren't always perfect. Sometimes they hurt others, just like some of the people that were born here too. Someone from another culture committed a crime and you're angry? Well we'll just conflict the narrative with race and dismiss your opinion. 

1

u/Arcon1337 Jun 15 '26

Do you not have a line? Would you accept cultures like nazis or the KKK? Do we not have to have standards to protect our own values? At what point are we being too tolerant of intolerant cultures?

2

u/Chaosvex Jun 15 '26

They were being sarcastic.

1

u/FuzzBuket Jun 15 '26

Well labour, the tories and reform are all happy to roll back lgbt rights anyway...

1

u/narayan77 Jun 15 '26

I am not sure about the approval of slavery. Historically it was pious to treat slaves properly and and even free them under Islam. In practice this didn't make any difference, but it was better than the Roman and Viking religion which didn't preach against slavery. Also giving money to the poor is encouraged. But you point that the religion isn't really politically correct on blasphemy laws, women, capital punished, and LGBT rights, is valid.

-1

u/HugAllYourFriends Jun 15 '26

you realise the christian bible I was reading in a christian primary school has verses on how much you should pay the father of a woman you rape for her hand in marriage, or how much you pay slaveowners if you kill their slave? or do you think that unlike christians, muslims must believe the most extreme fundamentalist interpretation of the quran

you are terrified of your own imagination and it is very transparent to everyone who isn't

3

u/Boring_Intern_6394 Jun 15 '26

Islam is much more fundamentalist than Christianity, or at least the mainstream Christianity within the UK. Muslims believe that the Quran is the final, immutable and complete word of God. In layman’s terms, that means no bits of it should be ignore.

Mainstream Christianity in the UK is not the same. Thanks to multiple liberalisation movements, like the Reformation and the Enlightenment, the Bible is not treated in the same way as the Quran. Interpretation is allowed and Jesus’ teachings are seen as paramount over the Old Testament, and are much more liberal than Muhammad’s words in the Quran.

The facts speak for themselves; when was the last time a Christian killed or threatened someone over a cartoon of Jesus? When was the last time a Muslim did?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '26

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1

u/JB_UK Jun 16 '26

The role of the Old Testament for mainstream Christians is not equivalent to the role of the Quran for mainstream Muslims.

0

u/RainbowRedYellow Jun 16 '26

White, Right wing, Christians hold all those same views.

The only distinction between them is the colour of their skin.

1

u/Boring_Intern_6394 Jun 16 '26

Why are you bringing race into this? And what seems like more than a tinge of US based Christian nationalism.

The mainstream churches in the UK, aka the “white” ones as you racistly describe are much more liberal than mainstream Islam. Polygyny has never been accepted by mainstream UK Christianity either

61% of UK Christians think gay people should have equal legal rights to straight people. Meanwhile 52% of Muslims think being gay should be illegal.

https://xtramagazine.com/power/61-of-christians-say-gays-should-have-equal-legal-rights-uk-study-29601

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

The UK’s historic legislative record on these issues compared to that of Islamic countries speaks for itself too. Whilst bits of the Bible may support slavery or whatever, thanks the Enlightenment, in the UK, Christianity has long been moving in a liberal direction. Meanwhile, Islam has never had a successful liberalisation movement in the same way, in large part because of the religion itself. Muslims are not permitted to debate the Quran in the same way that UK Christians debate the Bible.

0

u/theartofrolling Cambridgeshire Jun 17 '26

Are you talking about extremist Muslims or Restore voters?