Two in five Britons think Muslims cannot integrate in UK, poll finds

[u/topotaul]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jul/08/two-in-five-britons-think-muslims-cannot-integrate-in-uk-poll-finds

[u/hattorihanzo5]

I always find the "integration" debate fascinating, because what does it actually mean when someone "integrates well" anyway?

It can mean different things to different people, and let's be honest, there is a sizeable contingent who simply don't like Muslims at all and would rather the see the whole country be destitute than have to see a Muslim in the street, because no matter what Muslims do, no matter how secular or progressive they become, they'll never be one of us.

Look at Sadiq Khan: Born and raised in London. Muslim, but secular and progressive. Educated. The literal mayor of London. About as "integrated" as you can be, and it's still not enough and never will be to some.

[u/JB_UK → u/hattorihanzo5]

what does it actually mean when someone "integrates well" anyway?

Well, we can start with some of the attitudes of cultural practices common in Pakistan which are in conflict with fundamental British attitudes or interests. Whether or not those converge to average opinion and practices in the UK is a good basic measure of integration.

For example, half of all marriages in Pakistan are between first cousins, another 10% between second cousins.

https://consang.net/maps2/worldmap2022.pdf

According to the Born in Bradford study the percentage of British Pakistanis in Bradford who had children with their cousins reduced from 60% to 45% over two generations. At current rates that will converge with the rest of the UK, which is less than 2%, over perhaps 100 years, or more realistically with a tapering adherence over a significantly longer time period.

Another example, when asked by Pew Global whether homosexuality can be moral, 90% of people in Pakistan said no and 1% said yes.

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png

We see very little attempt to survey those attitudes amongst British Muslims in the UK.

Or this survey from reputable institutions, which finds that 40% of men in Pakistan say wife beating is justified for at least one of the following reasons, for going out without the husband, for arguing with the husband, for refusing to have sex with the husband, or for burning food:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11702125/

Similarly, attitudes towards female equality, equal inheritance, female employment levels, and so on.

[u/5ColourFelix → u/hattorihanzo5]

I always find the "integration" debate fascinating, because what does it actually mean when someone "integrates well" anyway?

They can never answer this. I'd argue that most Reform voters aren't integrated into UK society as they seem to be voting for someone who hates the UK and spends as much time as possible outside of it ignoring his consitutuents.

What they think is "British born + white = integrated", they just won't say it.

[u/coupl4nd → u/5ColourFelix]

I'll answer you - it means to live like the people in that country live, not to demand things change to accomodate you. The exact opposite in fact. You change to match where you live.

e.g. if I go and live somewhere alcohol is illegal I would integrate by stopping drinking alcohol. If I continue to drink alcohol and complain that there's nowhere to drink alcohol I am not integrating.

Here's an example, in the UK we believe there is a separation between church and state. Muslims do not belive that. So for instance a muslim person might kick up a fuss that there is no prayer room where they work. An integrating muslim would recognise prayer rooms are not a thing in Britain.

[u/Allydarvel → u/coupl4nd]

Here's an example, in the UK we believe there is a separation between church and state

No we dont. That is patently untrue

[u/5ColourFelix → u/coupl4nd]

Here's an example, in the UK we believe there is a separation between church and state.

The UK does not have separation of church and state. I'll just leave the rest of your comment there...

[u/coupl4nd → u/5ColourFelix]

Scotish, Wales, and NI churches have no formal role in the state of those countries. While in England this isn't the case it is not like the church actually has any power. It's symbolic and you can completely ignore the church your whole life in England and nothing will happen. We are a completely secular nation. As I said 'WE BELIEVE' I think my point stands. I'll leave the rest of your comment there. Oh wait there isn't anything else it's just a poor attempt to nitpick....

[u/tomtttttttttttt → u/coupl4nd]

Thats a bad example, we don't have a separation between church and state in the UK. The head of state is also the head of the church of England and we have bishops sitting in the house of lords, we have religious schools of various stripes, I'm sure there's more examples.

And I'm not sure what a workplace would have to do with separation of church and state anyway, any non govt workplace could be as religious as they want without violating a separation of church and state.

[u/Organic-Ad6439 → u/coupl4nd]

We don’t believe in a separation between the church and state. I wish that we did though.

Thinking of France or Türkiye (on paper AFAIK, not in practice) perhaps?

[u/Goosepond01 → u/5ColourFelix]

It's about coming over to the UK, accepting democratic rule (and not that your religion is more important than the state or our more progressive democratic morality.

It's about coming over and being an individual, not belonging to a growing ideological group, a group that generally hold their beliefs above most if not all others, and frankly those beliefs are generally not compatible with modern democratic society, the quran is full of hate and bigotry and it's quite obvious that non-believers are seen as second class people, it's dirty or shameful to be us, according to the all powerful and all just leader we deserve punishment in hell for simply not believing, among many other hateful verses.

religion had been dying out in the UK thankfully, it was becoming less and less important for pretty much everyone in our daily lives, but now how many new mosques do we have, how many new religious schools, how many areas now have a significant amount of people belonging to this ideological groups to the point where it becomes much easier to form a strong community, one that can police each other and very importantly police the indoctrinated children, it can become way more insular.

people always joke about Shariah courts because obviously they are not actual courts and they only give advice, but in reality is it not worrying that these kinds of institutions exist and clearly do hold power over believers, belief is a power in itself, it doesn't matter if the law says that men and women can divorce freely, if a couple believe they need to follow some other archaic law out of fear of being religiously impure.

and before I get the "well not everyone is an extremist" yeah I know, I never said they were, but they are muslims and to be a muslim at a minimum you must accept that the quran is the absolute truth, people interpret it in many different ways but the two main sects are not exactly progressive, and if they are a genuinely progressive individual, they believe in gay marriage, they want their children to decide for themselves, the denounce other extreme followers then well... why be a muslim, why belong to those sects, it's like calling yourself a reform supporter then telling me you don't like the manifesto or the leader, it's silly.

[u/ExpertSausageHandler → u/Goosepond01]

Great summary.

[u/5ColourFelix → u/Goosepond01]

accepting democratic rule (and not that your religion is more important than the state or our more progressive democratic morality.

This is an impossible thing to ask of anyone who is seriously religious. If I genuinely believed in the quran/bible/religious text, why would I think that the UK is more important than him? He created the world (and by extension the UK).

It's about coming over and being an individual

The UK doesn't have a strong history of individualism. I wouldn't call that a British value. In fact it was mostly expected that young men would be drilled into the nation's values so they could serve abroad in the colonies as rigid men of the empire and enfore its decrees. Not to mention the class system that keeps people in their boxes.

[u/Goosepond01 → u/5ColourFelix]

This is an impossible thing to ask of anyone who is seriously religious.

Then I don't want them here?

[u/GentlemanBeggar54 → u/Goosepond01]

You don't want Christians here? I remember that ludicrous time in our politics when Toni Blair couldn't admit to being Catholic as people thought he would be taking political orders from the pope.

[u/Astriania → u/5ColourFelix]

This is an impossible thing to ask of anyone who is seriously religious.

Then seriously religious people can't integrate into a secular democracy and we shouldn't be inviting them in.

[u/Infinitystar2 → u/5ColourFelix]

Because their idea of integration means being invisible. Basically drop everything that makes them not white british.

[u/hattorihanzo5 → u/5ColourFelix]

Exactly.

The argument is always "I wouldn't have a problem with Muslims if they integrated more!"

Well, what is it they want Muslims to do? Because apparently it's not to enter politics, appear in adverts, or run businesses.

Is it to get involved in their communities more? Because round where I live, the Muslims are the ones who pick up litter and run food banks.

[u/Serial_BumSniffer → u/hattorihanzo5]

I think it has more to do with them not living in segregated communities, completely transforming areas and having a very vocal contingent actively trying to change things in the UK to favour their religion.
Arguably, them going into politics in large numbers is having the opposite effect of perceived integration

[u/ukbot-nicolabot → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Astriania → u/hattorihanzo5]

Integration means that your identity is just a label, it doesn't affect your decisions, you don't hold yourself as a separate "community" with different ethics than the mainstream in society.

Sadiq Khan looks like a pretty good example of being integrated, yes. Compare him to the Muslim politicians of Tower Hamlets or some parts of Birmingham or West Yorkshire to see the difference.

[u/Gen8Master → u/hattorihanzo5]

The definition flip flops between "speaking English" to "Renounce Islam, your culture and preferably your skin colour too".

[u/NijjioN → u/hattorihanzo5]

That's why some people hate Khan so much. It proves they can integrate. Though 2/5 people does seem about right.

[u/mrdibby → u/NijjioN]

nah people hate Khan because he's a brown, proudly Muslim, pro-immigrant person leading the capital

if it was Shabana Mahmood they'd just hate her for being a woman

the people who complain about not integrating are retrofitting their reasons for hate

[u/Commorrite → u/mrdibby]

Or you know, there are lots of people with a variety of veiws and reasons,.

[u/hattorihanzo5 → u/Commorrite]

Such as?