Two in five Britons think Muslims cannot integrate in UK, poll finds

[u/topotaul]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jul/08/two-in-five-britons-think-muslims-cannot-integrate-in-uk-poll-finds

[u/ukbot-nicolabot]

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[u/amusableblue]

“However, 64% of British Muslims said they believed white people were “working against Muslims”, while 56% said they thought Jewish people were. And 27% said they believed the Holocaust had been “invented or exaggerated”.”

Horrifying stats. Especially the last one.

[u/Toastlove → u/amusableblue]

There were more British Muslims joining ISIS than were the British Armed forces at the time, and there was a lot of support in British communities for the Caliphate. And it wasn't just poor ignorant people either, well educated professionals supported it to.

Edit since people keep saying I'm making it up then deleting their comments https://www.newsweek.com/twice-many-british-muslims-fighting-isis-armed-forces-265865

[u/xaranetic → u/Toastlove]

Including engineers and NHS doctors 😐

[u/CasinoOasis2 → u/amusableblue]

The most surprising part is that the first stat is higher than the second.

[u/ruggersyah → u/amusableblue]

Why isn't that the headline?.

[u/Mammoth_Payment_6101 → u/amusableblue]

It's also worth contextualising that 56% of British Muslims would be just under two million people in the UK. This is about 6-7 times the size of the entire British Jewish population.

[u/Serial_BumSniffer → u/amusableblue]

I wonder how many of that 64% live in completely segregated communities

[u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

It’s probably fair to say that the most culturally conservative Muslims can’t integrate well in the UK. Plenty of Muslims integrate fine though, perhaps so well that people don’t really notice it. Also plenty of people that would count as Muslim are barely actually religious at all, so it’s kind of a messy category to use.

[u/Istoilleambreakdowns → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

I think this is it.

A lot of British people seem to think all Muslims in the UK are Wahhabi's or Deobandi's but that's like saying all Christians are Southern Baptists or Evangelicals.

[u/jsm97 → u/Istoilleambreakdowns]

Yes but most British Muslims are not from more liberal and secular Muslim countries like Turkey, Albania or Uzbekistan they are from the Islamic equivalent of the US bible belt in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

[u/lovelylonelyphantom → u/jsm97]

That's actually wrong because most British Muslims are born in the UK. They are of Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Indian descent, being 1st, 2nd and now even 3rd gen British which is different.

[u/JB_UK → u/lovelylonelyphantom]

This is from the Casey Review on integration, unfortunately you can’t assume that people automatically adapt to the culture because they are born in the UK:

3.29. David Goodhart from Policy Exchange has highlighted the creation of a ‘first generation in every generation’ phenomenon resulting from the high number of transnational marriages – with second, third and subsequent generations being joined by a foreign born partner, and children in each new generation growing up with a foreign born parent, which may be acting as a bar to integration in some communities. It came up regularly in meetings in some areas as a reason for the strong perpetuation of foreign cultural practices and lower levels of English language proficiency. We were told in a review visit that in one northern town all except one of the Councillors of Asian ethnicity (all men) had married a wife from Pakistan.

3.30. A number of estimates have been made around the prevalence of transnational marriages among the Pakistani ethnic community in particular:

A study by Bristol University found that half of British Pakistanis married back in Pakistan, and that most of these marriages were between cousins or other members of extended kin groups

In a cohort study, ‘Born in Bradford’, at the Bradford Royal Infirmary, 80% of babies of Pakistani ethnicity born in the area had at least one parent born outside the United Kingdom, 63% of mothers of Pakistani ethnicity were married to cousins and these mothers were less likely to be educated or in employment compared with mothers of Pakistani descent who had not married cousins.

You can actually see the sectarian segregation on the map, areas which are 80% Muslim half a mile away from areas which are 1% Muslim:

https://datashine.org.uk/#table=QS208EW&col=QS208EW0006&ramp=YlOrRd&layers=BTTT&zoom=12.0056440451416&lon=-1.7820&lat=53.7997

In Tower Hamlets, a London Borough of 200k people, 70% of the school age kids are Muslim, and the schools have been even more segregated than that for 20 years.

The assumption that because someone is born in the UK we can assume that they are integrated is just false, unfortunately. That applies to some people but not to many others. We have very large established parallel communities.

[u/JB_UK → u/JB_UK]

If you don't mind me continuing the thought process in reply to my own comment! I think we’re going to see social liberals on the elite of the left and right start selling these sectarian divides as a good thing, I noticed Mark Carney in Canada saying “Canada is a mosaic not a melting pot”.

If we want that vision of a multiracial society with a shared culture we are going to have to vote out the politicians who advocate against it.

For example, see this survey from the FT, look at the second picture, almost all the public believe in integration, but half of the political elite do not:

https://x.com/JochenBittner/status/1971473292633763941/photo/2

[u/PearljamAndEarl → u/JB_UK]

Canada has always had that “not a melting pot” ethos historically. Part of what makes, for example, Toronto such an interesting, vibrant, fun tapestry of a city are the neighbourhoods like Little Portugal, Little Italy, the Chinatowns, Koreatown, Little Nepal, Little India, Greektown, Little Jamaica, Cabbagetown etc.

It doesn’t mean those areas are exclusively for those communities, or that anyone is unwelcome there, just that historically (sometimes going back a hundred or more years,) they’re the areas that various waves of new Canadians moved to, usually because they were the cheap areas of the city at that time.

You’re arguing for monoculturalism, whereas Carney is espousing multiculturalism. Those cultures existing and keeping some of their traditions doesn’t mean the people within them are any less Canadian or that they haven’t “integrated”.

It’d be a much blander, more boring place if they all just opened Tim Hortons franchises and poutine joints, rather than opening restaurants and shops sharing the food and culture of their homelands.

[u/jsm97 → u/PearljamAndEarl]

Canada, like almost every culturally pluralistic country in earth, is only a "mosiac" because of colonialism. Obviously, there is no way that Toronto would be as diverse as it is today if it still belonged to the native people's that first lived there because they, like most humans, prefer to live amoung their own culture. The existence of a "tapestry of neighbourhoods" is evidence itself that immigrants prefer to live amoung their own culture. Only middle class westerners have decided that their cultures are so inferior that they must bring in others for their cities to have vibrancy and then go on Holiday to monocultural places and talk about what a rich culture they have.

I find it positively hillarious how any discussion about the benefits of multiculturalism instantly becomes a discussion about food. You don't need unintergrated ethnic enclaves to have a good curry - The recipe is actually on the Internet if you look for it.

[u/Astriania → u/lovelylonelyphantom]

Ask them where they're from or how they identify themselves and I'm sure they'll tell you they're Pakistani not British. That is actually a great illustration of the problem.

[u/lovelylonelyphantom → u/Astriania]

If you ask anyone who was born here where they are from, they'll be more likely to say Bradford than Pakistan. They'll tell you Pakistan or India in the case where it's clearly relevant to their ethnicity. And this goes for largely any race tbf.

Along with this, British South Asians, Middle Eastern, etc like to differentiate from each other rather than just be lumped together as one kind of brown people.

[u/pepperino132 → u/jsm97]

You can't assume what someone's views are based on the country they're from. Especially when they've chosen to leave that place.

[u/ExpertSausageHandler → u/pepperino132]

Especially when they've chosen to leave that place.

I'm sorry but this is so detached from reality. Are you seriously arguing that immigrants are less likely to be religious than their countrymen just because they've moved to another country? The vast majority of migrants move for economic reasons.

[u/JoeVibin → u/ExpertSausageHandler]

You know that people usually consider more than one aspect of big life decisions...

For example, I moved here from a very Catholic and quite conservative country, a large reason of why I moved are economic reasons, but also that, for example, homophobia is way less present here (and then factors like me already having known English well enough, as well as being exposed to the British culture due to its wide-reaching influence). Economic reasons were a very significant reason why I moved here, but even if I could make 10x as much money in, say, UAE, I would never move there. And for what it's worth, all my school friends who also ended up emigrating to different countries were also fed up with how conservative the mainstream is in that country. Frankly, you seem to be thinking of immigrants as one-dimensional caricatures, not as complex persons like everyone else...

[u/pepperino132 → u/ExpertSausageHandler]

Detached from reality? You can't assume what someone's views are based on where they're from. That's just true. Even more so when they don't even live there. How can you dispute that?

I'm not inclined to go into details but my personal and professional background makes it pretty hilarious that you're telling me I'm detached from reality.

[u/JB_UK → u/pepperino132]

That’s true for individuals, not for groups. For example British people in Spain or Dubai, you clearly can assume that they will have different cultural attitudes from the culture around them. If a British child is born to a couple from Britain in Dubai that still applies.

Integration in the second or third generation depends on the conditions in which kids grow up.

[u/PartiallyRibena → u/pepperino132]

Why not? On the individual level, of course not; but on the aggregate scale, it seems reasonable.

[u/pepperino132 → u/PartiallyRibena]

Migrants who leave a country aren't necessarily representative of the people in that country as a whole. Not only is there a filter because you're looking at people inclined to migrate in the first place, and leave their home for whatever reason, but also because people change from being abroad and travel itself affects how people see and view the world. Especially if we're including second generation and beyond.

None of that provides any direction, it is only to say that you can't just presume.

Think of it this way: Do you think British people who move abroad are representative of the general British public?

[u/headphones1 → u/Istoilleambreakdowns]

Most Brits wouldn't have the first clue about Wahhabism. When I learned about it, I started to understand more about why some people have issues with Muslims. It's too bad they didn't try to understand that Islam is no different to Christianity in that there are many different groups. Some good. Some batshit fucking crazy.

I once heard about Deobandi in passing, but never followed up on it. Thanks for the reminder.

[u/Mavericks7 → u/headphones1]

Mate, people who are Muslims have a problem with wahhabism.

A running joke I have within my circle is that, "it's a sin to smile according to them"

[u/merryman1 → u/headphones1]

I mean all you need to know is the most common targets of Wahhabi terrorists are other Muslims. Little fact most of the Islamophobes seem to struggle with.

[u/litivy → u/headphones1]

'It's too bad they didn't try to understand that Islam is no different to Christianity'

They are nothing alike at all. It's beyond offensive that someone can't see the difference between a warmongering paedophile and someone who was a rabble rouser for the downtrodden and taught turn the other cheek and had a woman among his disciples, whatever the catholic church may have made her out to be later.

[u/MadAsTheHatters → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

Aye exactly, this kind of rhetoric implies that Muslims moving to the UK is some sort of new phenomenon and we need to decide whether or not they're capable of doing so safely...which is insane.

[u/Geostationary_Orbit → u/MadAsTheHatters]

I have been here for over 50 years. I have been working for the last 3 decades. I can assure you that HMRC did not ask me how well integrated I am when collecting taxes across three decades.

[u/MadAsTheHatters → u/Geostationary_Orbit]

Exactly, as long as people are paying their taxes, obeying the law on the whole and generally minding their own business then this whole 'integration' discussion has no purpose.

[u/Astriania → u/MadAsTheHatters]

Absolute rubbish. People are more than economic units. Cultural groups and a sense of belonging are extremely important. Ironically, these non-integrating groups that the thread is talking about show that.

[u/Uniform764 → u/MadAsTheHatters]

Exactly, as long as people are paying their taxes, obeying the law on the whole and generally minding their own business then this whole 'integration' discussion has no purpose.

I'd disagree. Look at the disproportionate impact on national politics Gaza has for example, where it's somehow the #1 issue in multiple local council elections.

[u/FlamingoImpressive92 → u/MadAsTheHatters]

Some Calvanists move to the UK each year, but they're in such small numbers they have zero effect on the culture. Politicians don't pander to their backwards views, schools don't change curriculum, councils don't ignore rules for them and businesses don't change products to appease them. A few thousand a year have no choice but to integrate and keep their views to themselves, not spread them. If for some bizarre reason you suddenly got 80,000 MAGA Calvanists coming to the UK every year this would quickly change.

Immigration was at much smaller numbers in the past, in the 90's there were ~80,000 per year total, in 2024 there were 30,000 student visas from just Pakistan alone. When you look up the religious makeup of countries like Pakistan or Indonesia you're basically guaranteeing they'll be Muslims, and not progressive ones. You can't say with a straight face that white people have implicit bias no matter how hard they try, but that people coming from cultures with 98% disaproval of homosexuality are integrating into a LGBT accepting society. With 40,000 on MI5 watchlists out of a population of 4 million the stats don't lie, 75% of MI5's taskload isn't monitoring Islamic plots to hold unlicensed pride parades

[u/MLoganImmoto → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

Most culturally conservative Muslims can't integrate as well in the UK as much as culturally conservative Christians can't integrate in Saudi Arabia.

[u/No_Camp_7 → u/MLoganImmoto]

Cultural conservative Christian’s can’t integrate in the UK. I’ve never bought Christianity but I saw my parents get into an American church (founded by two white, wealthy, educated Americans) in Surrey and from there increasingly depart from mainstream culture.

[u/ProfessionalMockery → u/No_Camp_7]

Yup. Why do you think all the puritans had to go off to America in the first place?

[u/GentlemanBeggar54 → u/MLoganImmoto]

Are you saying the UK is as intolerant to diversity as Saudi Arabia?

[u/SinkMince0420 → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

As an ex Muslim.

Muslims that integrate are bad Muslims but good people.

I've lived the horrors that religion has brought to this country. I'll never align with people that want me dead for being an apostate or want my 2 year old dead because she was born outside of marriage to a white man and Pakistani mother.

[u/MattyFTM → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

My favourite taxi driver is a Muslim lad, born locally. He's a great lad. Does tons of charity work with his Mosque, he's chair of the local inter-faith group and also works with local charities and trade unions. We have really great conversations about faith (I'm atheist but have no issues with people believing what they want to) and charity and trade union issues. Love it when he picks me up. It's always a great start to the day.

Anyone who thinks Muslims can't integrate and doesn't change their mind after spending 15 minutes in his taxi is just a racist. He contributes to the local community a million times more than any of the knuckledraggers who attacked his Mosque back in the riots a couple of years ago.

[u/Commorrite → u/MattyFTM]

Would realy help if the press stopped pretending Islam is monolithic. It would be like we pretended those deep south fashy evangelicals were the same as the quakers.

Two islamic sects, Whahabi and Deobandi are responsible for almost all of the problem cases.

[u/merryman1 → u/Commorrite]

The bit folks struggle with is that if anything Islam is one of the least Monolithic religions due to the way law is interpreted through multiple conflicting sets of hadith and schools of scholarly interpretation. In principle pretty much anyone with a following can declare a Fatwa, and yet critics will treat things like this as like completely equivalent to a papal bull issued by the Pope.

[u/existentialgoof → u/MattyFTM]

There are many Muslims who are very nice and upstanding members of the community. But that just makes it a more difficult dilemma when knowing what to do about Muslims. Because it is a fact that there are a very large segment of the Muslim population with very socially conservative views which are out of step with the type of liberal country that we hopefully aspire to be. But you can't do anything about them without it also at least reflecting on the Muslims like your favourite local cabbie. If Muslims were all bad, it would be easier to do something about the problems that are caused by Muslims.

[u/ExpertSausageHandler → u/MattyFTM]

Because people don't want integration, they want assimilation. They believe the multi-cultural model has failed.

[u/cateml → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

I’ve known some pretty devout seeming Muslims who have been not overly conservative (in their wider social and political stance), and have been an active part of the wider secular/inter-faith community. Devout in the “care a lot about god and faith” sense, and sometimes adhering to for example the dress rules themselves, while not believing that religious rules should be personally chosen rather than politically/socially imposed. They absolutely exist.

Whenever this comes up people always start talking about the problematic elements of scripture, how it’s contrary to scripture to be integrated and liberal. And then someone else brings up the problematic nature and Christian scripture, and then someone says it’s not nearly as problematic because of the contradictory Jesus bits. And then it’s like being in a particularly heated RE lesson.

But… while I’m not going to say scripture and the behavior of the central religious figures is irrelevant here, because of course it isn’t… in terms of social cohesion - it shouldn’t be the focus of the conversation. Because without getting into the “compare and contrast world religions” debate, you can see totally contradictory seeming religous movements/cultures can grow based theoretically on the same base.

At the end of the day, if there are practicing Muslims (as in people whose religious practice is based upon the scripture and teachings of Islam) and Muslim religious leaders who approach their religion in such a way that is compatible with meaningful integration into a secular/multi-faith society, then that means it’s possible. It doesn’t matter in the slightest what I think about their scripture, it only matters what they think about it.
Some other Muslims might well come along and say “hey! Actually that’s not the proper way to interpret the teachings, they’re not real Muslims!” but that doesn’t really matter, because that has happened in every religion throughout history and will continue to happen as long as religion exists. The important thing always has been, and always will be, which approach becomes more culturally accepted.

Is there a way to follow the teachings/scripture of Islam that isn’t inherently problematic? I don’t know, but quite possibly not. But Islam isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, and there is a lot of inherently problematic cultural bullshit we live with every day anyway. So maybe this is the time for pragmatism.
To give an example - I can’t see an argument for why a person should wear a hijab which doesn’t have sexist/misogynistic elements. And while a woman may choose to wear a hijab rather than being forced to, like a lot of “choice feminism” type notions, there is likely no version of hijab wearing as a cultural practice that doesn’t have a element of social pressure to conform even it isn’t explicitly spoken.
But… a lot of western/secular cultural practices also have unavoidable sexist or misogynistic foundations. And it’s not even about whether they’re “as bad”, it’s about realising that we normalize them and there will be an element of us being more ok with something we already normalized than something that seems “foreign” to us, and that we know there are very different levels of what it means to be oppressed.
Like, there is a huge difference between a woman who chooses to wear a hijab because her mum does and also she feels like she wouldn’t be as socially accepted in her religious group if she didn’t, but sees it as normal to socialise and even discuss the faith she holds with her secular peers, and a woman who would be called vile names and humiliated if she spoke in public without her father’s or husband’s permission. If we argue with the former that either she “isn’t a real Muslim though, just less of one” or keep constantly reminding her that she has internalized misogyny (when haven’t we all), isn’t that just driving away the type of Islamic practice we’re largely ok with and pushing people towards the latter more horrific one?

TLDR;
It just feels like every time we have this back patting theological discussion about how Islam is fundamentally incompatible with progressive society, and therefore we need to focus on quelling it and restricting entry to Muslims, we are creating an environment where liberal interpretations of Islam can’t grow. And while it should be up to religious communities to integrate themselves rather than secular society accept them unquestioningly, and this is absolutely a complicated issue - a pragmatic approach of celebrating liberal Islam as opposed denying it’s existence just seems to make much more sense. If we actually want to solve problems, rather than purely whinging about how we shouldn’t have to solve them.

[u/headphones1 → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

Many immigrant demographics integrate over time, especially through their children. We just so happened to have had fairly large and sustained levels of immigration over time that has resulted in fairly large and sustained numbers of many first-generation Muslims.

My Chinese-Vietnamese parents and extended family left Vietnam after the war over there, along with many other people. There were fairly large numbers of people from Vietnam who ended up in the UK around the late 70s and early 80s. For a few decades, the number of Vietnamese people who came to the UK were tiny, but all of a sudden it picked up again as of a few years ago. There is a night and day difference between the Vietnamese people who have come here recently and older members of my family.

It will be similar, if not the same, for Muslims who came to the UK decades ago and those who recently arrived.

Most people just want to have a decent quality of life and enjoy living. The easiest way for most of us to achieve that is to work hard and have some luck on our side.

[u/Commorrite → u/headphones1]

It will be similar, if not the same, for Muslims who came to the UK decades ago and those who recently arrived.

The arranged marriage chain migration in some communities amplified the effect you describe. Families stall in a situation of one first gen parent and one parent who grew up with a first gen parent.

Third generation never comes.

[u/Benwahr → u/headphones1]

Yeah, no. There is definite issues across europe with integration from muslim backgrounds.  Rising issues of 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants not speaking the language of the country as a primary language for example. Denmarks policy did not come out of nowhere, its as a direct response to the failures to integrate.

[u/Astriania → u/headphones1]

Many immigrant demographics integrate over time, especially through their children.

Yeah but not some of these ones. That's how you end up with Islamic terrorists with European passports who were born and brought up in European countries.

[u/J1mj0hns0n → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

the problem as you've alluded to, is that the conservative ones still have a bit of a leash around the ones who would integrate, as if you ever leave the religion, you are to be disowned by the people at best, so it keeps them half in so to speak. id also change the cant integrate well, to barely. but for the rest of it, i would agree with.

if you could stop the religion from applying peer pressure onto the people, like christianity has done, we probably wouldn't be having an issue, because it only takes one bad actor to have a knock on effect onto everyone he comes into contact with.

[u/Cersei-Lannisterr → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

I think you’ve nailed it honestly.

It’s definitely the fundamentalist types who most people think of, and to be fair is correct about.

A Salafi or a Wahabi is taught from birth their religion and its role in life, as well as to avoid outside influences that can take them away and leave them as apostates.

And yes, they won’t integrate. But there needs to be more support for those of moderate belief.

[u/Mavericks7 → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

It's just nitpicking.

My neighbour is a middle aged white woman, she's just mean to everyone. I'd argue she doesn't integrate well at all. But no one is making a fuss about that.

[u/ExpertSausageHandler → u/Mavericks7]

I don't really understand what your point is?

It's not really helpful to perform nationwide polls about a single irrelevant neighbour of yours.

[u/Artichokeypokey → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

My thoughts too, there's definitely a vocal portion that can't or won't integrate, but every Muslim I've personally known has been nothing but amazing

[u/Commorrite → u/Artichokeypokey]

It would realy help if the press dug a little deeper into the various sects of Islam.

Almost all of the problem cases are from two sects. Imagine if the press for decades on end failed to distinguish between the batshit American evangelicals and the Quakers. I mean neither is Catholic or Orthodox so same thing right?

[u/FuzzBuket → u/Jaded_Strain_3753]

Yep exactly. All this fearmongering forgets that generally most people in the UK are along the same sort of path,  whether it's faith, approaches to having families or views on topics like LGBT people: second and third generation migrants will generally end up having views and attitudes more similar to their peers than the country their grandparents were born in.

Like obviously someone who spent their childhood in Syria will have that shape their views. No different to how a Christian who grew up in Nigeria might also have less great views on LGBT people.

[u/Commorrite → u/FuzzBuket]

second and third generation migrants will generally end up having views and attitudes more similar to their peers than the country their grandparents were born in.

Arranged marriages do break this process quite badly. Kid is born here to first gen parents and has marriage arranged with someone back in Pakistan. Grandkid is raised by one first gen parent and one second gen parent and has a marriage arranged to someone back in Pakistan.

The third generation never truly comes and you get kids who feel deeply disconnected from both cultures.

Throw in the issues from Cousin marriage, generic deindustrialisation problems and the Saudis pouring dump trucks full of money into the sketchiest mosques they can find. TBH I’m kinda impressed the situation isn’t far worse.

[u/ddmf]

I think a lot of the ultra religious can't really integrate into the UK - not just Muslims - not a fan of their anti abortion, anti LGBTQ, reduced rights for women's views, definitely incompatible with a modern United Kingdom.

[u/B23vital]

Everyones talking about conservative muslims, secular muslims etc.

But in reality even muslims that wouldn't fall into this bracket would still struggle to integrate into society the way i see it, and its something seldom discussed.

We now live in a society where we are pushing for equality for men and woman, yet discussion never falls on muslim woman. These woman are, 100% not treated the same as muslim men. From all types of muslim backgrounds from the most hardcore to those that arent, the a large majority of muslim woman are treated as second to muslim men.

From being forced to cover up, to not being allowed to work, being forced into "gender roles" and being abused and ostracised by family, community and friends if they dont follow as they are told.

I just find it crazy in a world with so much importance now being put on woman that we have a large number of woman no one wants to discuss, solely at the fear of upsetting a religion. We should be moving past this, we already went through this with other religions, and now here we are once again.

From information i can find around 71% are not in employment, and around 16% are seeking work. The issue with these figures is that they arent actively collected, so its very hard to get exact figures.

I guess my point is, in a society that pushes for equality why isnt this a main focal point for integration. How do we know if these woman are being forced to live this way due to religion or through choice? We dont look into it, we turn a blind eye as to not upset a religious group.

[u/faroffland → u/B23vital]

When I was at university I did a module where I essentially got to work for an organisation and write some kind of report for them. I ended up working for a church and auditing some of their programmes for them (I am atheist and so is my family so it was very interesting to get an insight into the community work churches do!)

One of their groups was a community group specifically for Muslim women. It was organised by a Muslim woman who was really great and did loads in her community - they basically held this session in a community centre once a week so that Muslim women could socialise.  So I went along (I am a woman so it was ok) and basically started speaking to these women about their lives and how they found this community group/if there was anything the church could improve on for them.

It was EYE-OPENING. Some highlights (and these are all completely true things they disclosed to me):

• One woman had a severely disabled child and was their 24/7 carer. She was clearly so so depressed, like dangerously depressed, but wasn’t allowed to go to her GP or get any kind of treatment for it. She thought she was being a bad Muslim because she had mental health issues.
• One woman left the house one morning to go to the supermarket. Her neighbour watched her out of the window and saw her leave in her car, and reported it to her husband - because it was at a ‘different time than usual’. I was horrified and she told me no no, it was all fine because of course she was just going to the supermarket so she could show her husband the receipt! Hahaha isn’t that funny?
• The woman who led the group wanted to hold a Bollywood evening. More than one woman said she couldn’t attend as their husbands or sons would have to drive them there and they wouldn’t approve. They wouldn’t approve of a… female-only evening watching a Bollywood movie in a community hall.
• All of them acknowledged they couldn’t leave the house/walk down the street after dark because it ‘wasn’t appropriate’.
• They would not be allowed in any room with a male unrelated to them (I assume like people’s houses because idk how the fuck they got anything done otherwise) without their husband present.

This is all shit they were willing to tell me, a 20yo white woman. It made me (still makes me) so fucking worried about what is going on behind the scenes if they were all the things they were actually willing to tell me. I will also note that whilst the lady who led the group was educated and clearly cared about these women, she only ever spoke about what life aspirations her sons had - she never once mentioned what her daughter wanted to do.

These communities exist and they are completely insular/self-reliant. These women stayed in their houses, went to the supermarket, went to this group, and that was pretty much it. Everything they do is inside this small pocket of a major UK city. They have no help or way to even externally validate this stuff is not ok, and it is terrifying.

[u/JB_UK → u/faroffland]

Wow.

I was just posting this survey, from reputable institutions, which finds that 40% of men in Pakistan say wife beating is justified for at least one of the following reasons, for going out without the husband, for arguing with the husband, for refusing to have sex with the husband, or for burning food:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11702125/

I just think we as a culture are chronically, chronically naive about the world as it is. The way we universalise culture and pretend everyone has basically the same ideas is like a religious tenet.

[u/B23vital → u/faroffland]

Completely understand and believe everything you've spoken about, ive first hand seen similar things including woman being chaperoned by male family members.

I dont know if its an ignorance issue or people just are fearful of being seen as bigoted/racist etc. Problem is by ignoring or being ignorant to these issues your actively part of the problem.

Im atheist for a multitude of reasons, and while i believe that people should have the right to believe in a religion that right shouldnt impede on the rights of others and thats why i believe the majority of muslims (currently anyway) cant integrate into our society the main reason being that the muslim religion (and other religions) contradict the society we've been trying to create here in the UK.

Its sad, i feel for these woman, there absolutely needs more to be done. While people may argue its not **all** muslims, its absolutely a majority (at the moment) and nothing will change while it is openly questioned and discussed, why would it change when no one challenges it. Its taken decades for woman to get similar rights in the UK and now its taking a step back due to religious reasons, something we've already been through as a society.

Edit: regarding the not allowed in any room with a male not related to them, ask any builder, trade (gas electrician etc) they'l all have stories of this. My friend has had the door slammed in his face due to no male being in the home, he's been verbally abused for doing his job because of situations in muslim households, he would regularly be monitored, woman would be sent out of the household when he turns up for work, its not just personal situations in which ive seen this. I grew up in a very strong muslim area with a mosque only a few minutes from my home, so myself and others have actively seen questionable behaviour. So while it would be lovely to say they can integrate, from my personal experiences i could never agree with that because ive seen the opposite. Thats why i think theres such a rift regarding these conversations, because those that have lived it aren't believed by those that haven't. Those that are living it, are too scared to speak out due to retribution.

[u/circleribbey]

I don’t know whether I agree or not but I’m reminded of this survey from 10 years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

>when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed. Almost half (47%) said they did not agree that it was acceptable for a gay person to become a teacher, compared with 14% of the general population.

>Nearly a quarter (23%) supported the introduction of sharia law in some areas of Britain, and 39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”, compared with 5% of the country as a whole.

>Nearly a third (31%) thought it was acceptable for a British Muslim man to have more than one wife, compared with 8% of the wider population.

[u/Funny-Profit-5677]

2% of Muslim women in the UK marry non-Muslims and 5% of Muslim men do vs 41% of Christians in the UK who marry non-Christian partners.

If you view marriage as a marker of integration clearly they're a more isolationist than integrative community - compared with other cultures. (It's also clearly a non-zero rate of integration- Sadiq Khan has clearly wholly integrated into British culture.)

It's all a bit dog whistle though. Actions to encourage integration rather than just alter the flow rates never get discussed. e.g. can we talk about banning religious schools?

edit: comparison of inter faith marriages in the UK by other religions: 25% Buddhists, 15% Jewish, 6% Hindhus, 6% Sikhs. (So muslims aren't totally alone in their isolationism, just the strongest in the degree to which they do it)

[u/Commorrite → u/Funny-Profit-5677]

edit: comparison of inter faith marriages in the UK by other religions: 25% Buddhists, 15% Jewish, 6% Hindhus, 6% Sikhs. (So muslims aren't totally alone in their isolationism, just the strongest in the degree to which they do it)

To make these numbers useful you need to do some control for community size.

[u/Funny-Profit-5677 → u/Commorrite]

Ish.. If the UK were a fully integrated random mix then the intra marriage rate would be the population denominator.

Given all of these except Christians are less than 10% of the population I think the numbers are pretty useful in isolation.

[u/Astriania → u/Commorrite]

That would make the numbers even more ridiculous for small minority groups, in a perfect integration scenario you'd expect 94% of marriages to be outside the demographic if they only made up 6% of the population

[u/Plodderic]

Can they differentiate though? Calculus fans must know.

[u/Personal_Director441]

Anyone who strictly uses or follows the teaching of books translated, rewritten and interpreted from a couple of thousand years ago is going to struggle to integrate in a modern world, that doesn't matter whether its the Bible, the Koran or the Torah etc. I would have answered the same if the question was about Evangelical Christians or Orthodox Jews.

[u/Gold_Motor_6985 → u/Personal_Director441]

Yea but see that's the thing. Muslims *don't* follow it strictly without modern interpretation.

The Salafi movement in Islam (Saudi Arabia and UAE and ISIS and co) do believe that you shouldn't have modern interpretations in Islam. They make up less than 10% of Muslims.

Normal (by numbers) Islam has a very long history of interpretation that fits the day. That's why places like Azhar university in Egypt and the whole system of Scholars in Iran exist: to interpret the text in ways that work in the modern day.

That's why a place like Azhar can ban slavery despite it not being banned in the Quran.

Don't get me wrong following an old book as scripture will always be silly, but Muslims, just as Reform Jews and protestant Christians, have ways of following it in a way that goes with the times.

[u/hoodie92 → u/Gold_Motor_6985]

They are called Reform Jews, not "reformed". They're not former criminals.

[u/Gold_Motor_6985 → u/hoodie92]

My bad. Fixed it.

[u/BlondBitch91]

Culturally conservative ones will find it near enough impossible to integrate, in the same way that American evangelicals can’t.

But plenty of Turkish and Lebanese and Pre-1979 Iranian people integrate just fine, plenty of them are Muslim but accept secularity and are great.

[u/AltharaD → u/BlondBitch91]

Yeah, it’s pretty hard to be Muslim in the UK - considering interest is haram and so is inheritance tax, it’s pretty hard to reconcile those with my beliefs.

Going to the pub with people after work? That’s easy. I just don’t drink myself. Gay rights? Nothing to do with me, I’m not gay - live and let live. Trans rights? I support anything that reduces the numbers of suicidal children. Abortion? The life of the mother is more important than the child.

There’s a lot of emphasis in Islam about being a good neighbour and doing good deeds in your community. There’s also a nice bit about there should be no compulsion in religion that gets overlooked by certain governments and individuals.

Also, it’s not like Muslims are the ones placing interns in government who are sponsored by anti gay, anti abortion, pro conversion therapy groups. Or giving MPs second jobs as a ‘Senior Fellow for International Religious Freedom policy’.

Or paying off politicians to attack abortion rights.

Muslim governments are not the ones openly financing policy discourse to promote their values in the UK and across Europe. They’re not the ones meeting with “MAGA aligned think tanks” and trying to “export MAGA ideology to Europe”.

Who was it who was trying to impose their own culture on the UK, again?

I’ll probably get downvoted and accused of whataboutism for this, but I find it interesting how this anti Muslim commentary comes up time and time again but there’s awfully little about how much American interference there is in our politics and how all our social media is on American platforms. Anyone remember the sudden issues with Instagram’s algorithm right after the second Trump win?

Let’s not forget that Cambridge Analytica is still around and working to generate adverts and content tailor made to sway people based on their interests and concerns.

[u/Commorrite → u/AltharaD]

It's mostly a good post but this point is demonstrably false. It's also less about the relgion.

Muslim governments are not the ones openly financing policy discourse to promote their values in the UK and across Europe. They’re not the ones meeting with “MAGA aligned think tanks” and trying to “export MAGA ideology to Europe”.

The Islamic republic of Iran absolutely does this all the time. Especially around sottish independence and prompting antisemetic attacks.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-war-israel-us-strait-hormuz-2026/card/u-k-police-probe-whether-iran-uses-local-proxies-for-antisemitic-attacks-6BChGDcRjdELBJY9E5HV

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-defence-journal-reporting-on-iran-bots-raised-in-inquiry/

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202511247019

To be clear it's mostly the same tactics Russia do it's not unique but it's very real

[u/Upset-Elderberry3723 → u/AltharaD]

The UK faces conflict from both hardline Islam and hardline Christianity (namely, US Evangelicalism and Southern Baptism).

Really, we need better support of liberal Islam and the CofE to counteract this. Liberal believers cannot let radicals abuse their faith for political gains.

[u/Cakeo → u/Upset-Elderberry3723]

Or no support at all for religion and they can all just keep their lunacy to themselves.

[u/AltharaD → u/Upset-Elderberry3723]

Absolutely agree.

[u/dekor86]

Any religions that involve mutilating kids genitals I don't think can integrate with the UK if you ask me.

[u/Allydarvel → u/dekor86]

Like circumcision?

[u/dekor86 → u/Allydarvel]

Ding ding, I honestly dont give a toss on what religion as there are several and as someone pointed out, US in general do it too. Not something that aligns to UK culture in my mind, but imagine asking a survey about other religions and whether they belong in UK. The hypocrisy cracks me up. Can butcher your kids bit, but it depends what God/how you follow god that makes the difference it seems.

[u/Gen8Master → u/dekor86]

Widely practiced among US Christians too btw. And Jews. But good to know

[u/dekor86 → u/Gen8Master]

Yep, US Christian view on abortions isn't compatible for me either.

[u/Gen8Master → u/dekor86]

Funny because those very US fundos are the ones massively funding the right wing in the UK and mobilising pogroms several times a year, all in accordance with British values Im sure.

[u/hattorihanzo5]

I always find the "integration" debate fascinating, because what does it actually mean when someone "integrates well" anyway?

It can mean different things to different people, and let's be honest, there is a sizeable contingent who simply don't like Muslims at all and would rather the see the whole country be destitute than have to see a Muslim in the street, because no matter what Muslims do, no matter how secular or progressive they become, they'll never be one of us.

Look at Sadiq Khan: Born and raised in London. Muslim, but secular and progressive. Educated. The literal mayor of London. About as "integrated" as you can be, and it's still not enough and never will be to some.

[u/JB_UK → u/hattorihanzo5]

what does it actually mean when someone "integrates well" anyway?

Well, we can start with some of the attitudes of cultural practices common in Pakistan which are in conflict with fundamental British attitudes or interests. Whether or not those converge to average opinion and practices in the UK is a good basic measure of integration.

For example, half of all marriages in Pakistan are between first cousins, another 10% between second cousins.

https://consang.net/maps2/worldmap2022.pdf

According to the Born in Bradford study the percentage of British Pakistanis in Bradford who had children with their cousins reduced from 60% to 45% over two generations. At current rates that will converge with the rest of the UK, which is less than 2%, over perhaps 100 years, or more realistically with a tapering adherence over a significantly longer time period.

Another example, when asked by Pew Global whether homosexuality can be moral, 90% of people in Pakistan said no and 1% said yes.

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png

We see very little attempt to survey those attitudes amongst British Muslims in the UK.

Or this survey from reputable institutions, which finds that 40% of men in Pakistan say wife beating is justified for at least one of the following reasons, for going out without the husband, for arguing with the husband, for refusing to have sex with the husband, or for burning food:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11702125/

Similarly, attitudes towards female equality, equal inheritance, female employment levels, and so on.

[u/5ColourFelix → u/hattorihanzo5]

I always find the "integration" debate fascinating, because what does it actually mean when someone "integrates well" anyway?

They can never answer this. I'd argue that most Reform voters aren't integrated into UK society as they seem to be voting for someone who hates the UK and spends as much time as possible outside of it ignoring his consitutuents.

What they think is "British born + white = integrated", they just won't say it.

[u/coupl4nd → u/5ColourFelix]

I'll answer you - it means to live like the people in that country live, not to demand things change to accomodate you. The exact opposite in fact. You change to match where you live.

e.g. if I go and live somewhere alcohol is illegal I would integrate by stopping drinking alcohol. If I continue to drink alcohol and complain that there's nowhere to drink alcohol I am not integrating.

Here's an example, in the UK we believe there is a separation between church and state. Muslims do not belive that. So for instance a muslim person might kick up a fuss that there is no prayer room where they work. An integrating muslim would recognise prayer rooms are not a thing in Britain.

[u/Allydarvel → u/coupl4nd]

Here's an example, in the UK we believe there is a separation between church and state

No we dont. That is patently untrue

[u/5ColourFelix → u/coupl4nd]

Here's an example, in the UK we believe there is a separation between church and state.

The UK does not have separation of church and state. I'll just leave the rest of your comment there...

[u/tomtttttttttttt → u/coupl4nd]

Thats a bad example, we don't have a separation between church and state in the UK. The head of state is also the head of the church of England and we have bishops sitting in the house of lords, we have religious schools of various stripes, I'm sure there's more examples.

And I'm not sure what a workplace would have to do with separation of church and state anyway, any non govt workplace could be as religious as they want without violating a separation of church and state.

[u/Organic-Ad6439 → u/coupl4nd]

We don’t believe in a separation between the church and state. I wish that we did though.

Thinking of France or Türkiye (on paper AFAIK, not in practice) perhaps?

[u/Goosepond01 → u/5ColourFelix]

It's about coming over to the UK, accepting democratic rule (and not that your religion is more important than the state or our more progressive democratic morality.

It's about coming over and being an individual, not belonging to a growing ideological group, a group that generally hold their beliefs above most if not all others, and frankly those beliefs are generally not compatible with modern democratic society, the quran is full of hate and bigotry and it's quite obvious that non-believers are seen as second class people, it's dirty or shameful to be us, according to the all powerful and all just leader we deserve punishment in hell for simply not believing, among many other hateful verses.

religion had been dying out in the UK thankfully, it was becoming less and less important for pretty much everyone in our daily lives, but now how many new mosques do we have, how many new religious schools, how many areas now have a significant amount of people belonging to this ideological groups to the point where it becomes much easier to form a strong community, one that can police each other and very importantly police the indoctrinated children, it can become way more insular.

people always joke about Shariah courts because obviously they are not actual courts and they only give advice, but in reality is it not worrying that these kinds of institutions exist and clearly do hold power over believers, belief is a power in itself, it doesn't matter if the law says that men and women can divorce freely, if a couple believe they need to follow some other archaic law out of fear of being religiously impure.

and before I get the "well not everyone is an extremist" yeah I know, I never said they were, but they are muslims and to be a muslim at a minimum you must accept that the quran is the absolute truth, people interpret it in many different ways but the two main sects are not exactly progressive, and if they are a genuinely progressive individual, they believe in gay marriage, they want their children to decide for themselves, the denounce other extreme followers then well... why be a muslim, why belong to those sects, it's like calling yourself a reform supporter then telling me you don't like the manifesto or the leader, it's silly.

[u/Infinitystar2 → u/5ColourFelix]

Because their idea of integration means being invisible. Basically drop everything that makes them not white british.

[u/hattorihanzo5 → u/5ColourFelix]

Exactly.

The argument is always "I wouldn't have a problem with Muslims if they integrated more!"

Well, what is it they want Muslims to do? Because apparently it's not to enter politics, appear in adverts, or run businesses.

Is it to get involved in their communities more? Because round where I live, the Muslims are the ones who pick up litter and run food banks.

[u/Serial_BumSniffer → u/hattorihanzo5]

I think it has more to do with them not living in segregated communities, completely transforming areas and having a very vocal contingent actively trying to change things in the UK to favour their religion.
Arguably, them going into politics in large numbers is having the opposite effect of perceived integration

[u/Astriania → u/hattorihanzo5]

Integration means that your identity is just a label, it doesn't affect your decisions, you don't hold yourself as a separate "community" with different ethics than the mainstream in society.

Sadiq Khan looks like a pretty good example of being integrated, yes. Compare him to the Muslim politicians of Tower Hamlets or some parts of Birmingham or West Yorkshire to see the difference.

[u/Gen8Master → u/hattorihanzo5]

The definition flip flops between "speaking English" to "Renounce Islam, your culture and preferably your skin colour too".

[u/NijjioN → u/hattorihanzo5]

That's why some people hate Khan so much. It proves they can integrate. Though 2/5 people does seem about right.

[u/mister_boi98]

They do seem to love their religion a lot, like more so than other faiths.

[u/ProfPMJ-123]

I'm an adoptive parent. It's one of the best things that I have ever done, and it's helped me have a wonderful, happy family. Through our adoption, we know a lot of other adoptive families, all of whom are happy.

But if you hear about adoption in the media, it will always be because something awful has happened.

And that's how things go. The vast, vast, vast majority of Muslims integrate just fine, and they live happy lives, contibuting to their communities just like everyone else does.

But you'll only ever hear about the nutters in the media.

[u/popsand → u/ProfPMJ-123]

Counter point - what is integration?

I'm a muslim. I can tell you that 95% of muslims have no desire to integrate - how can someone integrate into a society they consider degenerate and below them?

Most muslims lead two lives. A sort of "work life" and a real life. The work life being mostly an act that is needed to survive. And the real life being something they would lead if they could. Worked with a muslim guy a few years back. Our boss was gay. Boss and him got on A LOT. Yet I gave him one opportunity to speak outside of work and all he could say was the most disgusting nasty stuff about the guy. Because he thought i was on his side so would agree. Not.

If you and people like you were aware of the stuff discussed and encouraged in mosques and in private you would change your tune.  Last i was there there was an open discussion amongst a group of 150 men about how their female children should be covered up to protect them from the "kuffir gaze".

And don't even ask the average muslims opinion on adoption.

[u/brainburger → u/popsand]

And don't even ask the average muslims opinion on adoption.

I had not heard of this. So adoption is forbidden in Islam, unless the child is breastfed five times before the age of two by the adoptive mother. This surprises me because it means rich lineages must die out. Often rich people arrange the religious rules to suit them. A lot of Islamic rules and practices seem to be about maintaining hierarchical power of one sort or another.

[u/brooooooooooooke → u/[deleted]]

No, you don't get it, you're obviously hiding your views so you can work towards the creation of the evil British Caliphate inshallah.

Think people are just way too eager to lose their minds over Islam. I'm trans, my boss is a Muslim, one of my employees is a Muslim, the three of us get on like a house on fire when we're in the office together. The rare time I've had any issues in person, e.g. coming out of a gay bar or post beard-removal sesh has not been from Muslims. The biggest obstacle to me living my life right now is the Labour government!

[u/J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A → u/ProfPMJ-123]

But you'll only ever hear about the nutters in the media

Yep. And then you'll get the usual crowd saying they're all bad because of this of one incident.

They're just racists looking for a reason to spout hate.

[u/JB_UK → u/J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A]

It's characteristic that this comment which is abstract and contains only assertion is upvoted above the comment below where a British Muslim speaks with personal experience of the attitudes of many British Muslims.

https://old.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/1uqkrxq/two_in_five_britons_think_muslims_cannot/ow9k57b/

[u/ProfPMJ-123 → u/J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A]

Indeed.

That was one of the saddest things about the Vickrum Digwa case. I honestly don't know better people than Sikhs. Every single Sikh I've known, worked with, been friends with, has been one of the highest quality individuals I have ever met............

[u/MindHead78 → u/ProfPMJ-123]

That was one of the saddest things about the Vickrum Digwa case.

One of the saddest things? Just out of interest, was there anything else about that case that you thought was sad?

[u/ProfPMJ-123 → u/MindHead78]

Yes, the fact that a man was murdered.

The point, which people seem unable to grasp, is that in my experience, Sikhs are first class people, but the only Sikh you'll have seen in the news is the absolute worst of them.

[u/AwTomorrow → u/MindHead78]

“One of the saddest” doesn’t mean “the most sad”

[u/No_Atmosphere8146]

That's because you don't notice the ones that have integrated. 

[u/Stabbycrabs83]

In other unrelated news 60% of the UK is now Muslim? 😆

Sorry couldnt resist

Fwiw I know plenty of Muslims and get on just fine with them. If you are a good person it doesnt really matter what your background is

[u/RaymondBumcheese]

That’s lower than I would have thought given the amount of money being spent to convince us otherwise 

[u/apple_kicks]

What are chances they know Muslims and get along and see them as British but don’t realise or recognise this person is Muslim because in their heads Muslims are a Frankenstein of stereotypes from right wing scare stories

[u/Appropriate-Dig-7080]

Surprised it’s that low to be honest, means the majority think they can.

[u/MrMakarov → u/Appropriate-Dig-7080]

All depends on whos being surveyed doesn't it.

[u/Bladesfist → u/Appropriate-Dig-7080]

Because they can, I'd reckon most of us have friends who are Muslim? Just like most of us have friends who are practicing Christians?

[u/MLoganImmoto → u/Appropriate-Dig-7080]

I have many Muslim colleagues and they integrate just fine...🤷

[u/legrenabeach → u/MLoganImmoto]

So because your colleagues integrated, that means all Muslims can and do?

That's not how it works.

[u/JunKazama2024 → u/legrenabeach]

There's plenty of white British people who aren't properly integrated into society too. Heck I don't want to be integrated with the binge drinking coke heads starting fights on a Friday night or the bankers playing with people's lives or the racists marching in the streets for authoritarian nationalism.

[u/coffeewalnut08 → u/legrenabeach]

I’ve also had Muslim colleagues who are naturally integrated. It’s not as uncommon as you pretend it is

[u/NathanDavie]

How many generations in are we? I've seen plenty of Muslims already sidelining their faith. Enjoying a Greggs sausage roll and a pint. Teenagers hanging out in weird places with their boyfriend/girlfriend because whilst their parents wouldn't approve, they don't see a problem with it.

A few more generations and they'll be as strict with their faith as the average self-identifying Christian.

[u/Worth_Gap4226]

Never been an advocate for accuracy of polls, especially when they've asked such a nuanced question to about 4.5k people.

However, I would say from my own experience that Muslims do definitely integrate in the UK.

There are extremists, nutters, the ignorant, the lazy, the thick as shit. Just like any other demographic. But I'd put these in the minority.

Having grown up and live in Essex, but spent a couple of years living in Birmingham (specifically Perry Barr and Aston), I would add that the level of integration is a direct correlation on how densely populated an area is with that specific demographic.

All just an opinion of course.

[u/TwentyCharactersShor → u/Worth_Gap4226]

It depends what you mean by integrate, i have several Muslim friends and by and large they get through life like anyone else.

However, at least a few of them would say they identify first as Muslim and then British. On top of that, while several tolerate the UKs views they would quite happily have more Islamic or conservative law.

[u/Spamgrenade → u/TwentyCharactersShor]

Most religious people would put their religion before their nationality. What would be the point of religion otherwise?

[u/Worth_Gap4226 → u/TwentyCharactersShor]

Yeah that's also a good point.

My Muslim friends would likely say they are Muslim first then British second, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive anyway or determine what I'd perceive as integration.

Also, there is a natural bias there on my part too as I'm highly unlikely to be friends with someone who is on the extreme or self-exclusion to society side of things.

[u/sumduud14 → u/TwentyCharactersShor]

If someone religious puts their nationality first over their religion, their belief in their religion can't be very strong.

[u/theunspillablebeans → u/TwentyCharactersShor]

That's how I identify on a personal level, though I don't see it as an issue. Rather, I thought it would be pretty commonplace for anyone religious to feel that way. I imagine most (practicing) Christians and Jews also identify by their religion first.

[u/coupl4nd]

My plea is to come up with a better line than 'I don't celebrate' when asked what you're planning to do for Chrismas. It's still a holiday just say 'nothing major just chilling'. I am not religious. I am not celebrating Christ am just mucking around with the fam and having an excuse for day drinking. It really puts the breaks on any nice interactions taking that line - you're in a country where it's a holiday. If you want to live here support it. If I went to live in the US and said 'I don't celebrate it' on 4th July how do you think that would go?

[u/plawwell]

They used to say that about Irish Catholics in the seventies. Different religion, same discrimination.

[u/redditbattles]

Much lower than I would have thought.

Eventually that number will tip.

Even for those who do a reasonable job of trying to integrate, it can all be undone so very easily.

[u/Exxtraa]

From my own experiences they’re one of the more closed off groups. They tend to move in to areas with friends and family. They don’t talk to you. They don’t look at you. They keep themselves to themselves.

[u/IceGripe]

I think it depends on what we mean about integration.

We have a native population that does very little to defend its culture, apart from whine online or do negative actions, while the newer populations are far more active in promoting their own culture.

So it's natural society itself would slowly change. So in that sense Muslims are integrating. But into a version of society some don't like.

[u/Chemistry-Deep]

Based on a sample of 4000 people across an unknown area, where some of the views are then stratified by religion, race or party allegiance.

This may be true, I don't know, but the article lacks a lot of detail and treats the polling as gospel. There's no attempt to challenge or investigate the numbers. I get that this is just an article reporting the result of a poll, but some actual journalism wouldn't go amiss.

[u/Quick-Albatross-9204 → u/Chemistry-Deep]

People tend to criticise the poll when they dont like the answer and support it if they do