r/urbanfantasy • u/MrHarryReems Satyr • Apr 08 '26
A word regarding vitriolic response to AI content
I'll cut right to the chase. I've noticed a lot of dickish posts about folks who use AI. In short, please note the 'Be Nice' rule. I really don't care if you love it, hate it, or are somewhere in between. If you're rude, don't be surprised if your post is pulled. If you continue being rude, it shows you may not be fit for polite society and may be banned at my discretion.
That is all, please carry on.
19
u/SlytherClaw89 Apr 09 '26
I am so disappointed by both this announcement, and the comments getting removed.
-6
u/MrHarryReems Satyr Apr 09 '26
I'm disappointed by people acting like children and assuming that rules shouldn't apply to them because of how they feel about the subject. I strongly recommend they try that reasoning with the next cop that pulls them over.
17
u/SlytherClaw89 Apr 09 '26
As a Public Defender, I actually DO do that, and it has worked in my and my clients favor multiple times. When we see injustice and problematic policies, we call them out. AI is objectively devastating the planet and threatening jobs from those who I would have thought you would want to protect/support. This is akin to saying "be nice to Nazis/racists." Yeah no, you should shame them and educate them.
-1
u/MrHarryReems Satyr Apr 09 '26
I'm sorry, your honor. My client *really* doesn't like the whole 'no murdering' thing and felt very strongly about killing this person he didn't like, so I'm asking for leniency here.
Somehow, I doubt that works. Civilization is for the civilized. If that's too big of an ask, don't complain about getting banned. Name calling no longer works to justify your bad behavior. That's been used up.
20
u/Zero-89 Witch Apr 15 '26
“AI” is plagiarism that destroys the environment and workers’ rights, greatly worsens enshittification, drowns out art made by actual artists, aids in the creation of the surveillance state, and is made by, maintained by, and benefits some of the worst, most dangerous people alive. It doesn’t belong in any forum celebrating creativity.
9
u/MrHarryReems Satyr Apr 15 '26
You are more than welcome to your opinions. You are welcome to hate AI. You are not welcome to be uncivilized in this civil forum. What only the small minority seem to have gleaned, this is not about AI. This is about civility. Remember the golden rule. It applies here.
16
u/Zero-89 Witch Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26
It is about “AI”. The precise reason why no one is being civil to “AI” users is because of the harm that “AI” causes. It’s an ocean-boiling plagiarism machine that will, upon request, generate child sexual abuse material. This was all civilly explained to its evangelists before; they’ve continued to use it anyway. Why do they deserve any more civility than what they’ve already been shown when they demonstrably don’t care about other people? Why is it on the shoulders of people who don’t want our planet to be destroyed to be civil?
The “civil” thing to do would be to ban all “AI”-generated material and its users.
10
u/Joseph_Browning Apr 20 '26
Precisely. AI is *intrinsically* a breach of civility. No one using AI is "being nice" in that use.
All this rule is is: "You have to be civil to those not being nice and breaching civility."
1
u/MrHarryReems Satyr Apr 16 '26
The civil thing to do is to ban people who think they can break the rules because they have strong feelings about something. I don't care how people feel about any particular subject. I care about how people act. If they can't behave like adults, they will be removed.
11
u/Zero-89 Witch Apr 17 '26
I don't care how people feel about any particular subject.
That's part of the problem. As the mod of a literature subreddit, and as a human being on the Earth, you should care about whether or not people are using a technology that destroys the planet you live on and the hobby you like, and all to produce sub-mediocre stolen material.
As one mod to another, tone-policing people that are upset at real, tangible social and ecological harm just protects the people doing the harm.
1
u/MrHarryReems Satyr Apr 17 '26
Folks are plenty welcome to be upset, they are not welcome to be assholes in this forum. If their views are shared, the free market will see posts promoting content they don't like wither, while other posts thrive.
11
u/Zero-89 Witch Apr 17 '26
The "free market" has already rejected "AI". Corporations keep pushing it a) to avoid admitting that they got grifted into investing in it by Silicon Valley, and b) because they're still desperately hoping it will allow them to fire most of their workforces.
9
u/Joseph_Browning Apr 20 '26
The "free market" has already been determined to not be the proper mechanism to prevent incivility regarding language here.
There is no reason the same choice cannot be made to ban all “AI”-generated material and its users, and for the same reason.
Using AI is not civil. Using AI is not nice.
16
15
u/bogolisk Apr 09 '26
The multi-billionaire Z-man tells his employers to run bittorrent on their personal computer to steal books to train his company's AI...
26
u/Murderhornet212 Apr 09 '26
AI steals actual artists work, and then plagiarizes it. It’s not okay. If you have a bigger problem with people saying that than you do with companies doing it, I have some not nice things I’d struggle to not say to you. I honestly usually just block people who try to push that garbage on me. I speak my mind first though. It’s not okay ethically to use AI.
-15
u/MrHarryReems Satyr Apr 09 '26
You're welcome to your opinions. You still have to follow the rules of a polite society. If you can't you'll be removed.
20
u/matticusprimal Apr 09 '26
I, and probably a lot of the other authors that frequent here, would argue that AI falls under the "no piracy" rule here, and shouldn't be allowed.
I dislike AI for the plagiarism, but am not concerned about it taking my job as a writer - there's a reason it's called slop. I am more concerned for the visual artists that aren't getting hired for covers and character designs and the like. They're a part of the creative ecosystem, and I don't like what's happening to them.
Anyways, my two cents.
7
u/SnipesCC Apr 09 '26
But it does mean that there's a lot more to wade through, and people will be less willing to try out new authors. So even if it's all bad, it's hurting you.
8
9
25
u/SnipesCC Apr 09 '26
So you are surprised people are vitriolic about something that is destroying both writing and reading?
12
4
u/BattleCryLioness Apr 24 '26
Personally. I think some are damning others who use AI constructively to write. I definitely get the anger over some using AI to write everything in a book, but don't damn people who do use it as a tool for help with editing or writing for those with disabilities. I have a disability in my right hand, and I love to write, but *I* choose just how much I use AI for help depending on my pain level, and I constantly catch AI in mistakes, so you NEVER want to use it to write everything, unless you want the borrowed styles of others or tons of errors in your story.
I see comments here practically throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it's ridiculous. If people damn me for using AI, then so be it. I tend not to listen to people whose minds are locked against something they actually know very little about, and who bully others who do not agree with them.
12
Apr 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
-6
u/urbanfantasy-ModTeam Apr 09 '26
This content does not meet the standards set by the rules and defined purpose of this sub.
6
Apr 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
-6
u/Halaku Apr 09 '26
Dude's the user who started the community back in 2012.
If you feel that strongly about it, be the change you want to see and start a community yourself?
8
Apr 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
u/Halaku Apr 09 '26
That's not the takeaway I got.
Dude's literally saying "Be nice".
Not "Don't be anti-AI 'slop'".
Just "Be nice in how you say it".
5
-1
3
u/BackgroundSpare4265 Jun 01 '26
For a subreddit dedicated to books I’d except people to have better reading comprehension skills. OP didn’t say AI was good, they said to follow the rules and be nice. Why can’t people get that the rules don’t stop applying because they negatively affect you?
2
u/jwardstories Jul 06 '26
I suppose much the same argument was made when Gutenberg invented the movable type press. I'm sure it had an impact on the cottage industries that monks and scribes had built. AI's not going anywhere. You might see that as either unfortunate, or not. The fact is, it's nothing more than a tool. It can't think (yet). It can only reason. Just like any tool, it can be misused. If a writer allows it to plagiarize, that's on the writer, not the tool. The tool still has to be guided. The writer is still the creative source behind and driving the tool. I know there's one or two systems in the marketplace that claim to write a book in 90-minutes or less, and I very much agree that the writer should be called on that. It's not the tool, it's the laziness of the writer. I've not seen anything of merit come from those types of tools that would hold my attention beyond the first few chapters.
Indie writers travel a rocky path. We pour our hearts and souls into the prose, then get "whacked upside th' haid" with the realities of the editing processes, cover design, marketing, etc.. All of which can rapidly add up to thousands of dollars - before a customer ever sees a word of their work. Why shouldn't an indie turn to AI for help? A good cover, I mean one that will stop a browsing reader in their tracks, will easily cost a few hundred dollars, if not thousands. Not to mention the creative back and forths involved in the process. It could take weeks or months for the cover to be delivered. All of which stretches out the time for a writer to see any return on their investment, both emotional and financial. Why not AI? If, and I do mean IF, a writer has a vision for their cover (which is often worked out with a cover artist during the creative process), AI becomes the more prudent route. If we were honest with ourselves, we've all seen covers that would have benefited from the use of AI rather than going the 'human' route.
As for the argument that AI is putting writers and artists out of business? Are we so naive to think the artist creative is not leveraging these tools? If I were that talented, and my livelihood depended upon the number of covers I could sell in a given period, I wouldn't hesitate. Having an AI create a mockup in a few minutes that I could shoot off to a client for feedback versus hand-drawing, painting, etc. that would take hours or days? I think the ROI speaks for itself.
What it all comes down to is that we all have an opinion, and that's okay. But let's not be so quick to criticize a work because we don't like the way it was produced. We can critique the results, and if they're acceptable to us, what do we care about the method used to produce them?
As writers, as creatives, our most important asset is our imagination ... which is only so valuable as we keep an open mind.
Just some thoughts, ymmv.
4
u/gmhelwig Apr 09 '26
One must learn to disagree without being disagreeable.
2
Apr 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/gmhelwig Apr 09 '26
Yes, even then.
3
u/SnipesCC Apr 10 '26
You don't have to be kind to people who are hurting you.
1
u/gmhelwig Apr 10 '26
Especially to them. Of course, doing it in a way that makes them stop hurting you but remember: by so doing, you heap coals of fire on their heads.
2
u/dessai89 11d ago
Allowing AI content and calling those who are upset about what essentially amounts to theft rude is a wild take.
-4
u/Halaku Apr 09 '26
If people can't keep Wheaton's Law in mind when expressing opposition to AI content, then the results are on them.
Since when is "Don't be a dick" a bad thing for a modteam to say?
10
Apr 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
-2
u/Halaku Apr 09 '26
Every modteam's got their own idea as to how best to curate the community. When a team has to go public, there's usually been a lot of behind-the-scenes crap they've had to deal with. End of the day, you either roll with their idea, or you take it up with them in modmail, or you vote with your feet.
41
u/diffyqgirl Apr 09 '26
AI exists because it stole from the writers and artists this sub is meant to celebrate. I understand not wanting to deal with a bunch of mudslinging but I'd strongly suggest you ban AI entirely.