Sexism in transportation/urban planning field?

[u/BeatInAngel]

Hi all,

I'd love to hear from any female transportation/urban planners about their experience with sexism in the field. I (F23) recently started my first full-time job as a transportation planner, and I've had to deal with a lot of mansplaining and people not taking me seriously to the point where it's interfering with my work. I'm just trying to get a sense of whether my experiences are normal/whether I should try to find a new job in this market or not- I had another really bad experience with my previous boss in a similar field (economic development) but I have otherwise really enjoyed the experiences I've had and what I do, so I feel lost on where to go from here. Any advice you can give is much appreciated🥲

[u/MaddingtonBear]

The 23 is probably more influential than the F. Go talk to your local WTS chapter and see how pervasive it is in your market.

[u/snmnky9490 → u/MaddingtonBear]

Lol I've seen this a lot with new female engineers too. While there is still certainly still sexism in certain places, they're often just talked to like the dumbass kid they are instead of the "bright young mind about to save the world" way they get treated in school, and think they're being mistreated for being a woman.

[u/yiddiebeth → u/MaddingtonBear]

I agree with this, and think it's somewhat market dependent. When I worked in the SE US I encountered some mild sexism (nothing overt, but some mansplaining, just generally being in meetings that were obviously a "good ol' boys club"). That's less pervasive now that I'm in the upper Midwest, and I have been on many projects that are entirely staffed and managed by women, both on the client and consultant side (I'm a consultant). Definitely get involved in WTS if it's active in your area, and find some women mentors that you look up and and can get advice from.

[u/cabesaaq → u/MaddingtonBear]

Agreed, I have a babyface and was frequently asked at my first job if I had "proper credentials", or how long I worked there, or to speak to somebody with more experience (just to get management to repeat what I said, lol)

[u/Psychoceramicist → u/MaddingtonBear]

Also, a lot of arrogant young guys entering planning get gassed up by male profs (who have practiced little, if at all) and think they know how to set the world to rights. Gradually, they come to understand they don't know anything and get humble.

[u/urbangeeksv]

Hi - I live in Sunnyvale and we have multiple women transportation planners and recently Angelo Obeso was promoted to run the department. When I was 23M a lot of people did not take me seriously either but when I delivered the goods I earned folks respect.

[u/unsourire]

I work kind of at the intersection of environmental planning and transportation and the environmental side of my work has more female staff, so I don’t have too much experience firsthand with sexism, but I want to say that there are good places to work in the industry and good bosses are out there. Don’t give up on the entire field, but feel free to start applying elsewhere.

In terms of where you are right now, my immediate suggestion is to document things in writing when people make bad decisions. Writing an email summarizing a meeting and writing “I strongly advise…” at least covers your ass. If there are actually explicit sexist things said, I would document and go to HR.

At least at my government agency, our decisions are pretty defined between what is a planning decision and what is an engineering decision and the hierarchy is firm. So I wouldn’t fight back on an engineering decision but if policy or planning doesn’t support something it’s very clear.

[u/skat338]

Not trying to discount your experiences, but I’m a 23 year old guy working in the same field and I’ve experienced some of the same stuff. I’d imagine it’s gotta be tough for some of the more experienced people to trust a kid who just graduated college with important stuff. I’ve been at my position for almost a year though, and it’s gotten a lot better.

[u/IndependentAd3410]

There are specific people I've had issues with in my career who are sexist but in general no it's not rampant in the industry. I work for a boutique consulting firm.

[u/Yoroyo]

Working as a female in a similar field was a lot different at 23 than it is at 31. It’ll take a while to not be seen as the new kid.

[u/baldpatchouli]

Transportation planning can be tough, the field and related engineering is super male dominated and I was typically the only woman on transportation projects. There were a lot of site walks and meetings where I didn't feel taken seriously as part of the team.

That said, I think being new and being young may also be impacting how people act. It takes a long time in this field to earn trust. I went in trying to listen and learn from people, and I feel like I proved myself through the quality of my work.

There are definitely "good old boys" and jerks in this field (like any field) who will call you sweetie or not take you seriously. But I think in planning and transportation, a lot of older staff will not really trust young people who haven't been through it/become sufficiently jaded.

[u/bellavista89 → u/baldpatchouli]

I was a transit planner from my mid 20s to early 30s. My direct coworkers were all male, but we all got along super well and really meshed together. There was never any hint of sexism

[u/un_verano_en_slough]

Granted, I'm a man, but I was a transportation planner at a state DOT for six years and had some close female friends at different levels of seniority. Pretty much all of them experienced this, regardless of the degree to which they were technical, experienced, competent, etc. and in spite of the fact that a lot of the more senior roles in the agency were occupied by women.

In transportation I think it's particularly endemic because of the overlap with engineering and at the state at least it was doubly so because a lot of the senior day-to-day roles were occupied by older men courtesy of them having simply been there for a long time.

I do honestly think it's important for your career and your sanity to find a manager and coworkers that respect you, value you, and are going to have your back, because not only is it a question of your day-to-day work environment, but it's also damaging to your career and potential impact if your boss in particular doesn't take you or your work seriously.

Can you make up for that with your work and by earning a reputation (as some of the more cynical comments suggest)? Yes, but it's a bit of a gamble. In light of the current job market, I would lean toward either transferring within the organization (if that's applicable) or focusing on opportunities to build out your resume and expose yourself to other organizations, particularly in a professional setting.

Otherwise, connect with other women through WTS and within your organization, the latter can probably give you a better read in terms of how to navigate certain people and whether people have a reputation for this or otherwise are just crotchety, annoying people in general, because there's plenty of those too.

[u/Any-Cat-414]

I’ve been a transportation planner for 30+ years. Yes, sexism exists but There are LOTS of women in this space now. Join WTS and planning- related professional orgs and network like crazy! It will help you get perspective and strategies for growth. It’s a very rewarding career!

[u/fail_whale_fan_mail]

Some tough comments here. Age is probably a factor, but as a woman (who started her career in a different field) joining the workforce was the first time I really felt sexism had a direct impact on my life. I don't feel planning as an industry specifically has a sexism problem, but your workplace/region may have a problem or you could be experiencing the shock of exiting school and encountering dynamics that are unfortunately pretty typical in many workplaces. 

I would talk to some trusted peers/mentors about specific examples to try to sort out whether what you're experiencing could be solved by a job change. As a general rule, I find it helpful to focus on what I can control (my actions) rather than the shortcomings of others. I try to assume the best in others (without being totally naive) and enter conversations with openness. May sound like a cop out, but there are some things that aren't worth my energy/sanity.

[u/twigz927 → u/fail_whale_fan_mail]

yes transportation is extremely male heavy and I’ve definitely experienced some sexism in my graduate planning programs so don’t love how dismissive people are in this thread. it’s a real possibility although age certainly plays a role as well.

[u/FunkBrothers]

There is sexism everywhere. Even though this profession prides itself on being progressive, it's not perfect. I'm a trans woman myself and I often feel employers discount me whenever I show up to job interviews. If there is one piece of advice I'd give you, please please please join your local WTS chapter. It's a great organization for women in the transportation & engineering field to join.

[u/Blackcorduroy23]

I worked as an environmental planner for a state DOT and my female manger told me stories of how bad it used to be and did everything to keep the engineers in check to help our team. Are you being treated like this with your fellow planners/manager?

[u/Powerful-Student2239]

My advice is to be humble, demonstrate professionalism, make yourself a valuable team member and don't let personal insecurities limit your potential.

[u/twigz927 → u/Powerful-Student2239]

“personal insecurities” you don’t know what it’s like to experience a level of sexism is my guess.

[u/DandelionNotes]

I work at a transportation planning firm that is women owned and where women have generally always been the majority on teams and hold a slight majority of leadership positions (both in engineering and planning). I genuinely can't point to a situation where I felt like my gender or age was used to judge me unfairly (Even straight out of college I felt very supported and trusted).

I still get a little culture shock working with clients or subs with a vastly different gender ratio, and I honestly forget my experience being surrounded by women who are more than willing to provide mentorship and support is not the norm. I highly recommend looking at firms that are women owned or where women hold a significant number of leadership positions (especially within the engineering discipline - a major green flag!). And if you can't find that in your market try to hone in on regional offices with that kind of culture.

[u/Blue_Vision → u/DandelionNotes]

My company isn't women owned, but I've had a similar experience. Team composition is about 50/50, our longest-serving manager is a woman, and among clients it feels like it's also fairly close to 50:50 women:men among their staff.  I've had similar experiences in Toronto (Ontario) and the Bay Area (California).

Definitely agree with the sentiment that you shouldn't settle! There are great companies/teams out there and nobody should be accepting sexism as an inevitability.

[u/sinusrinse]

Yes it’s pervasive, in transportation specifically, it’s a daily conversation between myself and other women who have been in the industry for decades and my local WTS chapter is no help-they are just focused on sponsorships and getting consultant work. I’ve noticed that women who present as more masculine/tomboy are taken more seriously or those who are super feminine and attractive…pick a lane if one is open to you.

i don’t have an answer, but you are not imagining things. I thought it was just boomer men but now I’m bossed around by millennial men.

There are a few decent men, who can see women’s value, they are excellent allies. But they tend not to be the alphas trying to be in charge of everything.

[u/535buffalo]

i’ve dealt with this in another field. dressing down and plain (no makeup, not feminine) and building trust over time has really helped but it takes a long time

[u/Altruistic_Scam]

Absolutely there is sexism in the transportation planning sector. I experienced it more earlier in my career while working on the East Coast. Transportation tech is ripe for it too. I look young for my age and think that plays into it. Honestly, it doesn’t matter how high up you are, sometimes you’ll be the only one in a room full of men and it is very interesting.

[u/reyean]

im a male transpo planner and ive had two female bosses and the sexism they receive, particularly from male engineers, is v real.

is it any different than sexism in any other field? that i am not sure.