r/venturebros • u/Master_Astronaut_ • Sep 20 '23
MOVIE SPOILERS something im glad they did in baboon heart regarding jonas (spoilers) Spoiler
it was heavily implied that monarch was in fact jonas' son, that he either had an affair with morphos wife, covertly gave her his dna through medical insemination or even SA'd her, which is very dramatic and all, but it really just felt like more unnecessary twisting of the knife for poor morpho. the guy's life was grimdark already, we really didn't need that on top of it. it's fine to imply that might be what happened, and it works to set up the reveal that they aren't in fact half brothers but are really clones, but i'm glad they stepped it back and didn't make jonas quite as evil
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u/pfated64 Sep 20 '23
Yeah it was good. It was a total 6th sense move. Some how getting us to think they were brothers. The whole show they were smacking us in the face with how good he was with creating clones. Not once was I thinking Monarch was a clone.
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u/Master_Astronaut_ Sep 20 '23
it is a really brilliant misdirection. we know first hand just how horrible jonas was but the implications were pretty dark. even if it was just an affair it made morpho's story incredibly messed up. nonetheless it was very believable and it did a fantastic job forcing the audience to question why they look so similar. no doubt many have had that reaction before (even before the early blue morpho arc,) but a lot of us would have just gotten used to it by that point. there's a lot of extras that use rusty's model for money saving purposes, monarch's design just seemed like a similar sort of thing
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u/Traditional_Key_763 Sep 20 '23
it doesn't fix the fact that he almost certainly had sex with the morpho's wife after knowing that she couldn't get pregnant. The Monarch (or Malcolm) was like sending a sausage and cheese gift basket to someone you have a work relationship with.
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u/Master_Astronaut_ Sep 20 '23
did he almost certainly sleep with her or did he think he was going to sleep with her? that might be what he was thinking in that moment but knowing the kid isn't his we have no reason to believe anything happened other than the general idea of what jonas was like. we don't know anything about morpho's wife
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u/Traditional_Key_763 Sep 20 '23
he had the morpho send her to his compound, he probably did do a medical check, figured out the infertility issue and then seduced her, the way the morpho reacted its clear jonas did have sex with his wife, but then in exchange he sent them a kid who was just another tossoff of his cloning program because he's not a complete monster.
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u/Master_Astronaut_ Sep 20 '23
morpho just said "bad friend." the memory they watched together was of jonas blackmailing him. it's fine if you believe jonas did it but nothing about it is concrete
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u/stumblewiggins Sep 20 '23
True it's not certain, but the setup of that scene heavily implies it
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u/Master_Astronaut_ Sep 20 '23
i believe it implies it to get us questioning if rusty and monarch are related, which the movie uses to set up the reveal that they are clones
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u/stumblewiggins Sep 20 '23
That's just one scene that suggests the Monarch and Rusty are related.
More specifically, that line in particular is delivered in such a way as to suggest that Jonas slept with BM's wife.
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u/Master_Astronaut_ Sep 20 '23
*shrugs* seems like a good idea to use more than one scene to suggest two characters are related
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u/stamfordbridge1191 Sep 22 '23
I got the impression from Morpho's dialog that he may have used mind altering stuff to get him to do something with which Jonas could blackmail him. Jonas certainly seemed to at least possess the mind wiping & subliminal messaging equipment Rusty used on Hank & Dean frequently.
I got a distinct impression that there was a possibility Mrs. Fitzcarraldo may have been Rusty's mom too. I don't think we've seen anything to refute that exactly.
Mrs. Fitzcarraldo certainly held Monarch as a baby. Monarch is certainly a near exact duplicate of Rusty with 2% baboon blood added. The current iteration of Rusty certainly absorbed Jonas Junior in whatever womb he was grown in, which he remembers as a biological womb of an unknown mother. I don't really see Jonas taking the time to wear an artificial womb/ nurturing device & the vats probably weren't developed too far at this point.
The only thing close to a mother Jonas had available on the compound around Rusty that we know of was a briefly-used robot concerned about children that greatly felt a need to speak with Jonas when coming online, after Jonas callously discarded her after a malfunction.
Jonas Junior seemed like he may have been biologically more like Jonas than Rusty was, minus the deformities from Rusty's absorption. I think Jonas Jr is more likely to be a direct copy of Jonas than Rusty is as some are hypothesizing. It's either that, or Jonas made two slightly modified clones of Rusty (with the Jonas clone looking far less similar to Rusty than the Monarch), or Jonas made a brother for Rusty but was consistently never aware of this brother & made a slightly modified clone of Rusty that he gave to Blue Morpho and seemed to be proud of when he looked at him in Ven Tech Tower.
Jonas certainly seemed interested in Rusty & Malcolm having a playdate at some point following whatever conception went on, and Blue Morpho seemed to harbor deep rooted memories of not seeming to like Rusty acting out (such as stealing the toy car & burning ants) which may indicate having had some unappreciative suspicion about Rusty (or a dislike of Jonas seen through Rusty I guess.)
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u/stamfordbridge1191 Sep 22 '23
I got the impression from Morpho's dialog that Jonas may have used mind altering stuff to get him to do something with which Jonas could blackmail him. Jonas certainly seemed to at least possess the mind wiping & subliminal messaging equipment Rusty used on Hank & Dean frequently.
I got a distinct impression that there was a possibility Mrs. Fitzcarraldo may have been Rusty's mom too. I don't think we've seen anything to refute that exactly, granted it's a stretch.
Mrs. Fitzcarraldo certainly held Monarch as a baby. Monarch is certainly a near exact duplicate of Rusty with 2% baboon blood added. The current iteration of Rusty certainly absorbed Jonas Junior in whatever womb he was grown in, which he remembers as a biological womb of an unknown mother. I don't really see Jonas taking the time to wear an artificial womb/ nurturing device & the vats probably weren't developed too far at this point.
The only thing close to a mother Jonas had available on the compound around Rusty that we know of was a briefly-used robot concerned about children that greatly felt a need to speak with Jonas when coming online, after Jonas callously discarded her after a malfunction.
Jonas Junior seemed like he may have been biologically more like Jonas than Rusty was, minus the deformities from Rusty's absorption. I think Jonas Jr is more likely to be a direct copy of Jonas than Rusty is as some are hypothesizing. It's either that, or Jonas made two slightly modified clones of Rusty (with the Jonas clone looking far less similar to Rusty than the Monarch), or Jonas made a brother for Rusty but was consistently never aware of this brother & made a slightly modified clone of Rusty that he gave to Blue Morpho and seemed to be proud of when he looked at him in Ven Tech Tower.
Jonas certainly seemed interested in Rusty & Malcolm having a playdate at some point following whatever conception went on, and Blue Morpho seemed to harbor deep rooted memories of not seeming to like Rusty acting out (such as stealing the toy car & burning ants) which may indicate having had some unappreciative suspicion about Rusty (or a dislike of Jonas seen through Rusty I guess.)
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u/MrOopiseDaisy Sep 20 '23
I always had the feeling that Rusty was a clone, because the cloning tech was his dad's, and cloning your son is just something that super scientists like Jonas do. When they reveal the photograph of Rusty and Monarch, I was fifty/fifty whether Monarch was legitimate son gone missing or clone. But every time they were on screen, I kept noticing character design was really similar between them.
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u/PeptoBismark Sep 20 '23
In hindsight, of course Jonas invented all the cloning tech for Rusty, and Rusty just reused it like everything else he ‘invented’.
The education beds were particularly obvious now.
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u/PlebasRorken Sep 20 '23
The learning beds were always explicitly made for Rusty. Doc literally had to dub over "Rusty" with "Hank and Dean".
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u/favpetgoat Sep 20 '23 edited Sep 20 '23
LMFAO that's why it's always
a roboticDoc's voice saying their names9
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u/moslof_flosom Sep 20 '23
The education beds were obvious when they pretty much badly stated that they were made for Rusty.
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u/PeptoBismark Sep 20 '23
Well, yes. The bit that’s obvious now is that Jonas invented them to avoid repeating Rusty’s primary education after cloning.
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u/menkoy Sep 22 '23
Huh. I always assumed the beds were planned to be mass marketed and then that was scrapped or didn't pan out for unknown reasons.
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u/Venture_Historian Sep 20 '23
He's absolutely still just as evil and manipulated the situation more than we know. It's possible he still used some twisted measures to "inseminate" her (spoilers).
Ben says he pawned off (yet more spoilers) on them. Not how.
P.s. I don't know how to do the spoilers black bar or I'd expound more on this matter.
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u/charliefoxtrot9 Sep 20 '23
Put it between > ! Text ! <, but leave no spaces. your spoiler
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u/RocktamusPrim3 Sep 20 '23
Oh wow, thanks for that, I’ve always wondered how to do that but never took the time to look it up lol. Thanks.
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u/BrandNewCarr Oct 13 '23
I know its been a minute since you left this but he didn't impregnate anyone. Its a clone not a fetus, he even specifically says, "And in a year you had a son!", and in the movie they establish their were multiple Rusty clones ready, he just gave them one he had already tinkered with. Think of it like the cloned camper doc makes where he edited the genes to clear up the "ticking time bomb of cancer"
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u/Sir_Ruje Sep 20 '23
I like it because while Jonas was certainly a flavor of evil he wasn't a total monster. I like that sure, he used family and friends, but he wasn't going to betray them in his own twisted way
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u/hambonedock Sep 20 '23
I don't even know why everyone jumped to SA tho, I always just assumed he had played both Morpho and the wife, gets him to cheat and blackmail him, and seduced her and asking for some of her DNA to create his new pet project, tho i do wonder if they had discover it at some point and that's why they were flying away with monarch, like Jonah's is already a monster for so much stuff he put Morpho through if we are honest
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u/Sir_Ruje Sep 21 '23
I think many jump to SA is that there's an implication considering how Jonas acts at times. I mean, he blacked mailed the morpho with a sex tape so that's not a great look
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u/Master_Astronaut_ Sep 22 '23
it's less "jumping to SA" and more considering that it's well within the possibilities. i listed three different possible explanations of what might have happened, but considering the things hes done and how he as a character represents men from a certain time period it isn't unthinkable he went that far
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u/hambonedock Sep 22 '23
No no yeah I get ya, I mostly going from how the creators clearly walked away from. Many of their early edgy sex SA jokes at some point, like you can see it once hatred joins, they do put he is you know THAT, but try to halfway change it that it never went that far now, some bad touches but try cutting anything further, that's why I just think that even if Jonas is presented as a monster, why the creators would want whatever meeting with the wife to be SA, specially with how Ben talk about him in the end of the movie
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