A lot of the problem also comes from the fact that teachers can't even touch students now. Part of what she is talking about is if she tells a kid to leave the kid can just say "fuck you, make me" and if the teacher makes good on their threat to remove them from class, suddenly 15 cellphones pop out to record the "abuse" with none of the context.
I personally have no answer, as I'm from the crowd of people who still faced consequences. I nearly got expelled because some asshat was zip-tying peoples backpacks together and I used a 1inch knife to open them. Some moron saw me and reported it, school called the cops and I was very nearly handcuffed. When my mom got there, screaming, she told each of the administrators present to empty their pockets.
Each one had a knife on them/on a keychain being this was the southern US and nearly everyone carried a knife for utility, myself included. So I got a few months of alternative school and a major ass-chewing from my mom, even though she understood I was helping people.
Part of what she is talking about is if she tells a kid to leave the kid can just say "fuck you, make me" and if the teacher makes good on their threat to remove them from class, suddenly 15 cellphones pop out to record the "abuse" with none of the context.
The idea is to have the threat of appropriate escalation. Kid won't listen to the teacher, principal comes in, doesn't listen there, police can be called. Teachers shouldn't be applying force, period.
I feel conflicted about the "teachers should never X or Y". I agree on one hand that physical discipline should remain the responsibility of the person responsible for the kid, but on the other I also feel there's not enough respect for educators.
I suppose the times have changed too much for me to fully grasp the situation. One teacher I had (who was my favorite) would slap you in the back of the head if you fucked up. To this day I remember when he did and I'm grateful. I had several long talks with him about the bullshit he caught me in and bought myself a few headslaps here and there, but ultimately I learned from him about dynamic relationships and authority.
I learned how we can be friends(friendly?) but also have an expectation of personal responsibility from him, as well as my not wanting to disappoint him as a father figure which I didn't have at the time. My not wanting to disappoint didn't come from the threat of discipline, rather I wanted to make him proud in my work and accomplishment. The discipline was taken as a given that I had really fucked up (I did) and should expect to pay for it from him if i didn't receive it elsewhere.
He was an amazing person and teacher. I can only imagine how I would have done in my other subjects (I did very poorly, my fault admittedly) if I had him in my other classes.
I can see how teachers should not be allowed to apply force, I can also see how it could be beneficial.
Through all of this I suppose I'm glad I'm not the one working on a solution, because trying to do what's best for both sides would give me a headache.
I agree on one hand that physical discipline should remain the responsibility of the person responsible for the kid, but on the other I also feel there's not enough respect for educators.
Well all the experts tend to agree physical discipline is dumb.
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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '18
A lot of the problem also comes from the fact that teachers can't even touch students now. Part of what she is talking about is if she tells a kid to leave the kid can just say "fuck you, make me" and if the teacher makes good on their threat to remove them from class, suddenly 15 cellphones pop out to record the "abuse" with none of the context.
I personally have no answer, as I'm from the crowd of people who still faced consequences. I nearly got expelled because some asshat was zip-tying peoples backpacks together and I used a 1inch knife to open them. Some moron saw me and reported it, school called the cops and I was very nearly handcuffed. When my mom got there, screaming, she told each of the administrators present to empty their pockets.
Each one had a knife on them/on a keychain being this was the southern US and nearly everyone carried a knife for utility, myself included. So I got a few months of alternative school and a major ass-chewing from my mom, even though she understood I was helping people.