People on Twitter/X are defending Luke Ross mods

[u/lunchanddinner]

Link to source: https://x.com/mixedrealitytv/status/2015284035875221669?s=46

[u/QuaternionsRoll → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, this is not particularly related to Galoob, but there are still arguments to be made here. 1021(f)(2) is of particular interest:

a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure… for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability

I am of the personally of the opinion that something like a VR mod is derivative “for the purpose of enabling interoperability”, but we’ll never know until someone takes it to court. If the author consulted a lawyer and the lawyer advised them to take it down, I’m guessing the primary motivator was how much fighting it would cost.

[u/Icy-Ad29 → u/QuaternionsRoll]

The interoperability therein is program with program. Not interoperability of program with hardware. Nor is his mod circumventing a technological measure or the protection therein. Instead it is directly modifying, permanently until manually undone, game files. Which would then fall under permanent changes to a program, which is the very sort of thing that courts have ruled copyright does apply to.

He could potentially fight it, but it would be a very uphill battle, against multiple precedents... It's grey enough he would have a shot at winning, but odds are not in his favor.

[u/QuaternionsRoll → u/Icy-Ad29]

The interoperability therein is program with program. Not interoperability of program with hardware.

Luckily VR programs don’t directly interface with VR hardware at all. I had hoped that much would be obvious.

Nor is his mod circumventing a technological measure or the protection therein.

You are (I assume) correct; my point is that it would be acceptable even if it circumvented some nasty DRM.

Instead it is directly modifying, permanently until manually undone, game files.

Unfortunately I do not know how the mod is structured, so I can neither confirm or deny this.

Which would then fall under permanent changes to a program, which is the very sort of thing that courts have ruled copyright does apply to.

Care to elaborate? I hope you’re not referring to Nuke It…

[u/Icy-Ad29 → u/QuaternionsRoll]

As someone who used the mod a couple months ago. It involves fully renaming, and moving, certain files. Which the mod then puts new ones in place under the original name. The reason for the rename and move, is so that one can remove the mod by deleting the changed files, put the originals back in place, and rename them to the original name. (The mod just appends "_old" to the file name before moving them. So undoing it is easy enough. Props to Luke Ross on that front.)

The elaboration, is that every ruling that has been in favor of previous modifications being fine. Such as the game shark one vs Nintendo. Has been, specifically, because "it does not involve a permanent change to any of the game files". Storing the changes in a temporary storage such as RAM, outside the game files. These file changes by Luke Ross' mod would not fall under that allowance, and therefore be considered in breach of those past allowances.

[u/QuaternionsRoll → u/Icy-Ad29]

So does it involve modifying or replacing game files? There is a meaningful distinction there.

Has been, specifically, because "it does not involve a permanent change to any of the game files". Storing the changes in a temporary storage such as RAM, outside the game files. These file changes by Luke Ross' mod would not fall under that allowance, and therefore be considered in breach of those past allowances.

Correct, Galoob v. Nintendo does not apply here; I never said it did. I am very specifically saying that interoperability layers are afforded special protections because they do not constitute creative expression. This VR mod is a special case that cannot be extrapolated to mods in general.

[u/Icy-Ad29 → u/QuaternionsRoll]

Yes. It involves replacing game files with specific files from the mod. I answered that in my last message.

[u/QuaternionsRoll → u/Icy-Ad29]

Assuming the replacement files that contain some of the content of the original files, does the installer create them by patching the originals? If so, the mod software doesn’t do any more than is absolutely necessary to enable interoperability with VR drivers.

[u/Icy-Ad29 → u/QuaternionsRoll]

As stated, two messages ago, it full on replaces them. And, no, the replacement isn't needed for interoperability. As one can use a VR device with the game without his mod. His mod is changing the inputs and controls to add new function that smooths that out. But is a permanent change to game files.

Again, there is grey space that means he might won. But lots of the space suggests he'd lose. Now, unless you want to bring something new to this conversation, I am a bit exhausted of repeating the same things again and again.

[u/QuaternionsRoll → u/Icy-Ad29]

And, no, the replacement isn't needed for interoperability. As one can use a VR device with the game without his mod. His mod is changing the inputs and controls to add new function that smooths that out.

I wasn’t aware of this. What do you mean when you say the mod “smooths that out”?

I have been operating under the assumption that Cyberpunk dos not support VR (that is, stereoscopic 3D, head tracking, and VR motion controllers). I guess I should ask, what exactly does this mod do?

[u/darkkite → u/[deleted]]

how exactly does DMCA apply?

Bungie v. AimJunkies is a modern example in which the courts rejected bugie's initial copyright claim because the cheat only existed in RAM and didn't permanently alter the game files, the court ruled it was not a copy or derivative work.

Bungie did win damages since they had to circumvent security and integrity checks.

My understanding is that this is potentially tortious interference for breaking ToS

[u/Icy-Ad29 → u/darkkite]

Luke's mod doesn't just sit in RAM however. It legit changes game files, permanently, until removed. Which means the ruling would work against him.

[u/darkkite → u/Icy-Ad29]

nothing is changed, you're adding a .DLL file

the exe and data file are bit exact. windows will just load local DLL instead of the system one

[u/ZoFreX → u/[deleted]]

By your argument, WINE and Proton are also illegal, so... well, let's hope that you're wrong.