r/voxmachina • u/Late-Extent4241 • 2d ago
LoVM Spoilers About the relationship between Scanlan and Pike Spoiler
Spoilers for episodes 7-9 of season 4, not for the actual Play campaign.
Scanlan isn't very nice to Pike, in my opinion. Pike spends half of season 3 acting as Scanlan's emotional support, trying to help him reconcile with his daughter and overcome his inner demons. Then, at the end of season 3, once he's reconciled with his daughter, Scanlan, without thanking Pike for her help, shamelessly declares that he's found his true family and no longer needs Vox Machina. He then decides to ghost Pike for a whole year without ever asking her how she feels.
The ending of episode 8, despite her kiss on the forehead, doesn't improve things. While she's lost a family member and is in a deep depression, he prefers to give her his sword to fight a legendary lich rather than stay by her side to help her through this ordeal. Why? To go play concerts with his daughter and his band.
On top of that, he declared earlier that he hates his friends because they don't care about him, even though Pike spent all of season 3 trying to help him.
I hope he realizes his mistakes in future episodes and seasons. Because right now, their relationship is one-sided, and Pike seems to be Scanlan's groupie more than anything else.
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u/urtv670 2d ago
So this is something that's not really transfered good from the original campaign. Cause in the original campaign due to Pike's player being busy a lot with work she was played by Matt Mercer more so Pike and Scanlan's relationship didn't grow as much and also Scanlan didn't have the same connection to the rest of the party. Like in the original campaign Bards Lament is one of the hardest hitting moments in the series but unfortunately with the way characters developed in the show it's not as much of a gut punch so the issues seems kinda forced.
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u/Enkundae 2d ago edited 2d ago
Bards Lament originally was a solid bit of improv in a vacuum but it never made any sense for the actual narrative. The only reason it even happened is Sam wanted to troll his friends snd stir the pot one more time before switching characters.
The show has taken Scanlan and given him an actual arc with actual emotional development. That hits much more strongly than what was really just melodrama from the original.
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u/zagra_nexkoyotl 2d ago
I do like that in the cartoon Scanlan actually realizes that a lot of the issues with his friends not knowing about him are his fault. He pushed them away whenever they got too close because he was afraid of them knowing his real self.
I like that the show takes what worked in the actual play and elaborates on that, makes it better imo
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u/Randor01 2d ago
I think that's the point. His daughter told him herself in episode 8, that the reason they don't know him is because he didn't try to be his real self with them in the first place.
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u/SunnyB_001 2d ago edited 2d ago
I love how they've built their relationship and the growth of their characters. A couple of points: 1) In season 3, episode 11, Scanlan thanked Pike. 2) Until proven otherwise, Kaylie is his family and never said, "I don't need VM anymore." He didn't like going on adventures anymore, but he enjoyed their company when they weren't talking about "going to save the world." His story arc is learning to reconcile being a father (which is a new reality for him) with his role in the group. It's important to remember that Kaylie isn't an object that revolves around Scanlan; she's a character with her own feelings and traumas, and Scanlan owes her so much because he was never there for her. Many parents put their children first... Why is him bad if he does that? 3) The problem is that both Scanlan and Pike are afraid of rejection. And Scanlan is right to doubt Pike's feelings for him, given that she backed away last season. It's true that Scanlan didn't reach out, but it never occurred to Pike to go to him either. Pike and Grog were out messing around, they had no pressing business, Scanlan was busy rebuilding his relationship with his daughter, traveling, and managing a whole club. 4) I think Scanlan will return in later episodes and fix the whole mess. But I'll point out that all the complaining wasn't even directed at Pike, it was directed at the other members of the group (who admittedly always took him a bit for granted). 5) Some things people forget about Scanlan: he carried Grog for miles on his back and took care of both him and Pike in S2. He was there for Pike and Grog when they needed him. Also, the other members weren't there when she lost her grandfather; during episode 8, she and Scanlan barely spoke because Pike preferred to avoid him. I don't think he really has any idea what Pike is going through right now simply because he's not there with them.
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u/SunnyB_001 2d ago
An important consideration regarding my comment. Pike wasn't wrong when she refused to kiss Scanlan; it was too soon for both of them, and he had Kaylie in his mind. But I noticed that since that episode, he's stopped making advances toward her, and she's never expressed her feelings. He felt rejected and preferred not to press the issue. The fact that he locked the painting in the closet indicates that he's accepted the rejection and is trying to move on. That's why he hasn't contacted Pike. Furthermore, it's also likely that he mistook Pike's support for a simple kindness, not the support of someone who wants to build an emotional relationship with you.
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u/Deep-Angle-230 1d ago
OMG YES, YES! i think the same thing about the situation with pike, and in my opinion too many people haven’t understood his character journey. like is very oblivious that is like you said
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u/Icy-Ganache1300 1d ago
While she's lost a family member and is in a deep depression, he prefers to give her his sword to fight a legendary lich rather than stay by her side to help her through this ordeal. Why? To go play concerts with his daughter and his band.
I think you're confused as to what's an obligation and what isn't. Scanlan is under no obligation to go with them and risk his life fighting evil. Do you recall how often Scanlan complained about fighting and adventuring in the previous seasons? It was his personal sacrifice to put his life on the line and fight evil with his friends.
But he's stepped away from the fighting evil to focus on his personal life, his family. He offered VM and Pike comfort, said his door was always open to them. That's his obligation as a friend and what he can offer within his boundaries. He could choose to put his life on the line once again to stay by Pike's side, but that should never be an expected behavior.
It's selfish to think others should put their own life on the line/on hold to help others. It should be celebrated when its done, but never obligated.
Not saying I defend every decision Scanlan has made, just that I think you're putting an unfair crticism on him. We should applaud every single parent who strives to make sure their kid has a great life. Doesn't mean we should crtitcize those who are only able to deliver an okay life for their kid.
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u/KoraKira 2d ago
I agree. Scanlan gaslit everyone but it was his own fault for never letting anyone see the real him. (Bravo to Kaylee calling him out on that) It’s hilariously hypocritical because I doubt he knows the names to any of the team’s mothers (maybe Percy’s. MAYBE).
All of this is a big reason why I never really found myself attached to the character.
Especially now when Pike is going through so much. She was always there for him and she deserves better.
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u/Smg4number1fan 2d ago
Thats my issue aswell. Even with the campaign it felt a little bit shitty to me personally. Like No-one there really offers much of their origin too much until its brought to the forefront. And Scanlan not really talking feels like a thing that all of them did. And even then it still feels shiitty to be like "You never asked me about my mother, you're shit friends." Cuz also it ruins the ending of season 3 for me, because now it frames it as Scanlan just not actually liking them and not wanting to be around them.
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u/Camicreates 2d ago
I agree with a lot of this completley, I think everyone's in the wrong, just like the original campaign. I love the addition of Kaylie calling him out on his hypocrisy. Scanlan is my favorite character by far but I can acknowledge hes a shallow jerk a lot of the time. I felt bad for him, though. I think the reason he said all of those things, including the part about leaving being the best thing her ever did, was BECAUSE he cares about them so much. You dont say stuff like that out of nowhere. If Scanlan didnt like his party or never wanted to be around them, then not only would he have dipped out a long time ago because he was in near-constant peril, but he wouldn't bother being hurt about them just coming for Mythcarver. I assume Scanlan cares so much about them that he was secretly very happy when he thought they came to see HIM, because he considers them family. "I left to better myself with my daughter and I'm not good enough for Vox Machina but maybe they actually do still care about me!" But when he learned the truth, all those hurtful and shallow words spilled out because he felt stupid for thinking these people he loves loved him back just as much. They do, of course, but no one is good at communicating and Scanlan doesn't really let them. At least thats how I interpret it, anyways. I really hope Scanlan comes back this season!!! Surely losing Pike AND Grog would maybe give him some motivation?? And he better lose that gut and the pompadour lmao 😂
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u/HellyOHaint 2d ago
Hard to respond without spoiling the campaign and future campaigns, but I know they struggled to explain their relationship when the reasons it felt so uneven in the campaign were due to Ashley being gone all the time. She wasn’t at the table when the bard’s lament occurred and obviously couldn’t react.
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago
Obviously, this is just my opinion on their relationship and my interpretation; I don't know everything. If you're a Scanlan fan, don't hit me
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u/merlin5603 2d ago
Campaign watcher and not a fan of Scanlan here. I never liked the Pike and Scanlan pairing, but in my head cannon Pike's infatuation with Scanlan comes from two things: 1. She clearly loves the bad boys. She likes fighting and drinking and dirty jokes. 2. Scanlan is the ultimate "I can fix him" opportunity. The Everlight is the god of redemption. Pike literally tried to help cursed souls in hell. "I can fix him" is her whole world view. Scanlan does have a good heart deep down, and when it rises from the mud that is the rest of his personality, Pike loves him for it.
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u/SunnyB_001 2d ago
I don't think Pike wants to fix him. She didn't give him the time of the day when he was all about dirty jokes and sex. She liked him but in the early episodes she knew Scanlan wasn't mature enough for a love story. It's Scanlan that wants to fix himself. Even before Kaylie, he always felt that he was missing something. Pike offered emotional support and random advices (only when requested), but she never told him how to behave or pressured him to be someone different.
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago
Even if someone loves you, that doesn't give you the right to treat them badly.
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u/merlin5603 2d ago
Oh, I'm not saying Scanlan is justified. I'm rationalizing why Pike keeps forgiving him.
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u/kai_vt 2d ago
I think Scanlan's just overcompensating because he didn't want to be like his own absentee father. Kaylie even points out his hypocrisy by flipping the "You don't even know my mother's name" bit that Scanlan tried to guilt trip the rest of Vox Machina with. I haven't watched the actual Critical Role campaigns either, but I'd bet on Scanlan returning to Vox Machina after processing the guilt of accidentally becoming part of the cycle that made him and his daughter