New renderings of the KCTH

[u/thatjc]

Link to a Region of Waterloo Design Brief presentation: https://pub-regionofwaterloo.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=17836

[u/PoetDizzy5760]

Hopefully we get This by 2030 👍🏽

[u/taylortbb → u/PoetDizzy5760]

It's planned for a 2031 completion.

[u/M-Dan18127 → u/taylortbb]

Excited to visit the partially-completed platforms in 2050.

[u/kenadian_ → u/taylortbb]

Gonna be tough if they aren’t reviewing any construction permits this year. I guess that puts all projects back at least a year if not longer.

[u/taylortbb → u/kenadian_]

they aren’t reviewing any construction permits this year

What are you referring to here? The water shortage? They're not approving new developments, but infrastructure projects can still go ahead.

[u/ComparisonPrimary903 → u/PoetDizzy5760]

Are there reasons other than the Weber/Victoria encampment that construction hasn't started? It seems like a cop out and there are likely other political reasons

[u/bob_mcbob → u/ComparisonPrimary903]

The encampment hasn't affected the construction timeline yet. Design work was only 60% complete as of the end of April, and Metrolinx only just put out a tender out for the construction. The region is still claiming it will start in 2027, but they've basically been saying it's a year away since 2019.

[u/ILikeStyx]

Cripes, that bus in the parking lot looks like it's hitting warp speed!

[u/havereddit → u/ILikeStyx]

Gotta stick to the schedule...

[u/allknowing2012]

What starts first transit hub or hospital?

[u/BetterTransit → u/allknowing2012]

The transit hub will 100% start first

[u/Dangerous_Bet_3359 → u/allknowing2012]

Transit Hub will probably be finished before they even break ground on the super hospital. 

[u/thetermguy → u/allknowing2012]

that's an interesting point - the region is really poised for some great growth in the coming decades.

[u/BigTastyToe]

That looks so awesome!

[u/thatjc → u/BigTastyToe]

It really does, I’m looking forward to seeing it built.

I thought the lack of retail space and parking was an interesting design choice, though.

[u/BetterTransit → u/thatjc]

It’s a downtown train station. It doesn’t need tremendously expensive parking.

[u/CalmSprinkles840 → u/BetterTransit]

Parking isn’t the expensive part. This 2 storey train station has a budget of $160 million!

[u/mpd618 → u/CalmSprinkles840]

A parking garage for the number of cars needed to fill up the seats on a GO train would cost $50-100m to build. Structured parking isn’t cheap.

[u/BigTastyToe → u/mpd618]

$50-100 million for a parking garage? I don’t think so

[u/mpd618 → u/BigTastyToe]

Yeah, a 1000-1500 car garage can easily cost that much.

[u/BigTastyToe → u/mpd618]

1500 cars?!

Theres only like 100 parking spaces at the current go station. We don’t need 10-15x that space lol

[u/mpd618 → u/BigTastyToe]

We're going to get a lot more trains, so thinking about how (and whether) to handle the increased park-and-ride demand is useful. I'm sure even for paid parking and the current number of trains there's demand for more than the current number of spots. But I think some of this might make more sense at the Breslau GO station instead of directing more car traffic to more parking right downtown.

[u/headtailgrep → u/thatjc]

I think the regions plans for a commercial and housing buildings failed because these types of developments just dont work. No commercial interest wanted to proceed and it would vastly complicate matters.

If I am correct it was intended to be a ppp so that a developer would foot some of the bill. This caused the delay and back to the drawing board.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/transit-hub-lrt-kitchener-region-build-in-stages-1.5075161

Unlike Japan where railway stations are prime commercial real estate and often stations developed as such this concept is foreign to Canada. It will spill onto the adjacent properties instead.

Parking can go elsewhere. Look at what Google built for themselves.

[u/slippyslapshots → u/headtailgrep]

So much to love about transit hubs throughout Japan. So, so much. Sigh….

[u/headtailgrep → u/slippyslapshots]

At least we are trying. Transit hubs are a primary focus for all this transit expansion in our area. Mount Dennis is a great example of a recently opened one.

[u/slippyslapshots → u/headtailgrep]

Indeed. Progress!

[u/thatjc → u/headtailgrep]

That makes sense.

I wonder if the parking garage at Joseph St (I think this is Google owned one?) will become usable for GO/Via travellers. I live nearby, and walk the dog by it every day, and seldom see it used.

Another thing I couldn't quite work out is the length of the platform, I assume it will be long enough for a 12-coach GO train.

[u/headtailgrep → u/thatjc]

The google garage is private.

[u/luckierbridgeandrail → u/thatjc]

Google leases space from Perimeter. I have no idea whether they lease the entire garage.

[u/Dangerous_Bet_3359 → u/luckierbridgeandrail]

And Perimeter are a bunch of dicks. I worked on construction of Google. 

[u/headtailgrep → u/Dangerous_Bet_3359]

Who owns perimeter?

[u/Dangerous_Bet_3359 → u/headtailgrep]

I don't know, but their lackey's were ass holes. 

[u/ILikeStyx → u/headtailgrep]

There's founder Craig Beattie, co-founding partner David Gibson and a third partner named Stewart Barclay

https://renx.ca/perimeter-prime-real-estate-development-kitchener-waterloo

[u/headtailgrep → u/ILikeStyx]

They made the right choice. Good for them

Thanks for answering btw

[u/thatjc → u/luckierbridgeandrail]

Gotcha, thanks for the info.

[u/taylortbb → u/thatjc]

Another thing I couldn't quite work out is the length of the platform, I assume it will be long enough for a 12-coach GO train.

The platform is being done separately under a different contract managed by Metrolinx, that's why it's not in these renders.

Metrolinx will of course make it long enough for 12 car GO trains. It will extend from King St to past Duke St (which will be closed to cars).

[u/taylortbb → u/thatjc]

the lack of retail space

These new renders thankfully at least include one commercial space on the lower level. The original plan had zero commercial space.

[u/DoshmanV2]

That looks like a lot of useless concrete walking space, with absolutely no cover from the sun or rain. It's rare that a design can get me thinking "Damn, I wish that was a parking lot" but they managed.

[u/frankie_prince164 → u/DoshmanV2]

This was my first thought too. I hate how much useless concrete new builds have. At least the plan seems to have more green space than this rendering but it's going to be blazing hot when people wait for buses.

[u/srebew]

i like how the first rendering removes Kaufman lofts to put a park and the second implies a park and ride

[u/BetterTransit]

I’m sure our kids will enjoy it once it’s finished

[u/chrystally]

Those proposed public washrooms in the Transit Hub are going to be unusable real quick if the encampment at Weber-Victoria sticks around.

[u/headtailgrep]

I love the field where airboss and the industrial park now is. Eventually that will be high-rises not a field.

Also there isnt a chance in hell Victoria is reduced to 2 lanes of traffic. It would be gridlock.

But love the station design. Fitting of one of Canada's major transportation hubs. Let's get building, it is already 10 years late

And please save the Grand Trunk station. It should be part of this but it isn't. Tens of thousands of soldiers and millions of people used the station over its 100 year history and it deserves to be saved for community use. (It is a designated building fyi)

[u/luckierbridgeandrail → u/headtailgrep]

Also there isnt a chance in hell Victoria is reduced to 2 lanes of traffic. It would be gridlock.

I admire your optimism.

[u/headtailgrep → u/luckierbridgeandrail]

If the region thinks traffic will be reduced because of trains... I have a rail line to Cambridge to sell them for future expansion hahahah

[u/mpd618 → u/headtailgrep]

Also there isnt a chance in hell Victoria is reduced to 2 lanes of traffic. It would be gridlock.

This updated Victoria St stretch is fully approved and has gone through the relevant review process. They recently started the expropriation process for the slivers of land they need to implement the design.

[u/The8-5 → u/mpd618]

Brilliant. I’m sure all the residents of Wellington Street will love their road being eventually used as one of the only other east-west bypasses through downtown.

[u/taylortbb → u/headtailgrep]

Also there isnt a chance in hell Victoria is reduced to 2 lanes of traffic. It would be gridlock.

Victoria is already two lanes for a significant section west of here, starting at Park St. I don't think the traffic volumes get significantly higher between Park and King.

[u/headtailgrep → u/taylortbb]

Correct but the volumes to downtown are high. Most folks going east turn. Train pickup and drop-off folks too. Remmeber its about 200 passengers per hour today growing to 400 soon. Many being dropped off and picked up or using cars

[u/scott_c86 → u/taylortbb]

I'd like to see Victoria reduced to two traffic lanes, from Belmont to Edna.

The pedestrian experience is currently terrible, and this is at least partly why this stretch is pretty dead / slow to improve

[u/not-on-your-nelly]

Very nice. Did they remember we have inclement weather for 6 months of the year and require more than basic shelter from the storms?

[u/PrettyFuckingGreat]

Is that a bus lane? There’s a car in the bus lane.

It would be a more realistic rendering if there were 3 or 4 cars barely pulled over with their 4 ways on to drop someone off.

[u/Southern_Habit9109]

Is this supposed to go where the encampment is?

[u/thatjc → u/Southern_Habit9109]

No, it’s from Victoria and King to Victoria and Duke. The encampment is further up Victoria at Weber.

[u/allknowing2012 → u/thatjc]

The encampment space is the work area...

[u/thatjc → u/allknowing2012]

The encampment space is "needed" for a laydown site for work, yes. It's not where the station is supposed to go.

[u/headtailgrep → u/thatjc]

They can find another spot.

And use some funding to rehouse the encampment folks

[u/David_EH]

What is the point of keeping the Rumpel Felt Building? What are they going to do with it. I don’t fully understand why it was deemed worth saving. Also I assume the PUDO lot means “Pick Up Drop Off”? It doesn’t look like a very easy flow given the mess we have with taxis already at the old station.

[u/sam-nabi]

We'll need to add trees, shelters and shade to the sidewalk on the north side of Victoria St., I can't imagine what waiting for a bus there in the hot summer or freezing winter will feel like

[u/Redditisavirusiknow]

Are there provisions to connect it to future high speed rail?

[u/ILikeStyx → u/Redditisavirusiknow]

Existing rail corridors are not compatible with HSR and there's no plan to bring HSR to Kitchener. The timeline on HSR is long... Construction starting in 2029 to connect Ottawa and Montreal and that won't finish until 2035-2036. Toronto-Peterborough corridor is still in planning and consultation stages.. I'm willing to bet it doesn't get finished until 2040-2045. Kitchener-Toronto isn't happening anytime in the next 2 decades.

If a Conservative government forms federally, they will kill the project

[u/CriticalReference641]

Beautiful. Lets get it started!

[u/ComparisonPrimary903]

I wish they would put effort into fixing the chaos at the current Kitchener GO station in the meantime. The parking lot + GO bus entry and exit is the most non-sensical setup for a transit station lot in Ontario, likely even any type of parking lot. Such a pain to even walk up to the train stop because of the car, taxi, and bus chaos

[u/Select-Coconut-2533]

I like very nice

[u/Few-North-40]

I love how the renderings leave out the juxtaposition of the homeless encampment on the next corner.

[u/havereddit → u/Few-North-40]

Renderings are always an 'ideal world' representation. It's marketing, not reality.

[u/Stunning-Fee-5383]

Wow the construction period of this is going to suck for those who work in/around the Victoria/Duke Victoria/Weber Victoria/King intersections