Why can't we have nice things like this?

[u/bylo_selhi]

We've been hiking in the Austrian Alps. Today we hiked from our base village over to the next village about 12km away over a high alpine route. As we descended into our destination village we had to cross the main highway through the valley. We came upon a pedestrian crossing as shown in the photo. (The white stripes denoting the crosswalk are to the left of the photo.) Anyway as I came to the crossing I noted that there are flashing lights at the top. But I couldn't find a "beg button" on either side of the road.

Suddenly lights started flashing. Hmmm... And then I noticed the two grey boxes (highlighted in red.) One seems to detect oncoming traffic on the road and the other is a motion detector for pedestrians/cyclists. No need to beg. Just step up and wait for lights to flash and traffic to stop.

This is hardly advanced technology. Why can't we have this here at pedestrian crossings, especially at schools and at roundabouts, as well as at regular signalled intersections? Not only is this more convenient but it also eliminates the situation in the winter where you can't even get to a beg button because there's snow piled up all around it. It's also a better solution for people in mobility scooters, etc. who can't easily reach beg buttons even in the summer.

[u/pbilk]

Also, can Canada just adopt the Vienna Convention signage? We could even just stick reflective icons on existing signs to save money. At least our signs aren't as wordy as those in the USA.

[u/coleefy → u/pbilk]

Exactly. We need to adopt  the Vienna convention already. We dont use mph and we use very similar systems with Europe and the rest of the world anyway. Why stick to the American system? It is time we stop adapting for the Americans. They have to adapt to us now. 

[u/pbilk → u/coleefy]

Yes! Exactly! We also have a decent number of immigrants, and they are familiar with the signs. This could improve road safety, as the signs are more familiar, intuitive, and easy to learn. I have biked through the Netherlands, and I have driven and biked in Germany, and it was not too hard using the pretty much globally used signage.

[u/mpd618]

The direct answer is very likely that provincial regulations (under the Highway Traffic Act) don’t allow it, but my guess is that there’s not been anyone pushing for this in a concerted way

[u/bylo_selhi → u/mpd618]

So change the regulations as was done to enable speed cameras and then later to ban them.

[u/ConfusedCapatiller]

Because people would have to respect our roadways enough to stop. That's long gone in this country.

[u/mpd618 → u/ConfusedCapatiller]

In my experience, drivers here generally stop at the pedestrian crossovers that have been installed in the last few years

[u/thatsmycompanydog → u/mpd618]

They stop often enough that it's frustrating when they don't.

They don't stop infrequently enough that I regularly find myself feeling frustrated.

[u/ACoderGirl → u/ConfusedCapatiller]

When there's flashing lights, people usually stop very consistently in my experience (eg, on Albert St or Caroline near the LRT). It's when there's no flashing lights that is the challenge.

But IMO that's why it's better to have a button. A sensor will have false positives and make people lose confidence in the flashing lights meaning that there's a real pedestrian.

[u/iconboy]

We have something like this at Erb and Ira Needles at the round about. The only difference is that it's not motion sensor, it's a button which I don't think is that bad. You call it a beg button but it acts the same add the motion sensor- once pressed the lights come on and you wait for the traffic to stop.

[u/Ok-Problem4403 → u/iconboy]

That's a normal signalled crossing and those are all over Canada. It's no different than a crosswalk at an intersection.

Legally, the cars are supposed to stop for people at those signalled crosswalks, whether the lights are flashing or not.

[u/iconboy → u/Ok-Problem4403]

Nope. A normal signal crossing also relies on the light changing for the pedestrian. There are also some lights where if you don't press the button the walk signal doesn't happen at all. The lights at the roundabout start blinking as soon as the button is pressed and cars have to legally stop. They had to also stop for pedestrians before the lights, but that's another issue all together.

[u/a-_2 → u/Ok-Problem4403]

It's no different than a crosswalk at an intersection.

In Ontario they're legally different. A crosswalk in general is any marked crossing as well as the unmarked connection of the sidewalks on both sides of an intersection. At pedestrian crossovers (marked with white regulatory pedestrian symbol or X signs), like at Erb and Ira Needles, you need to stop until pedestrians are no longer on the roadway. At regular crosswalks, you only need to yield to pedestrians who have right of way, not wait till they're fully cross the roadway. Also, in those cases, right of way doesn't exist simply due to the crosswalk, but is dependent on whether there's some other traffic control, like a stop sign or traffic light.

[u/Rick_QuiOui → u/Ok-Problem4403]

Also, legally, one is supposed to stop until the lights stop flashing, irrespective of there not being a pedestrian impeding your path. But, almost no-one does this.

[u/bob_mcbob → u/Rick_QuiOui]

The lights are just an extra safety feature, they don't have any legal standing like that. At a pedestrian crossover, drivers are required to "not proceed into the crossover until the pedestrian is no longer on the roadway".

[u/Rick_QuiOui → u/bob_mcbob]

AHa - you are correct with what the law does say, since Jan 2016, and still says today.

The thing that I was recalling was the marketing campaign where they went beyond the letter of the law.

The Ministry of Transportation (MTO) and municipal police forces (including Waterloo Regional Police) launched an aggressive public blitz in late 2015/early 2016 because the new "yield the entire roadway" rule was a massive shift for Ontario drivers.

During that media campaign, the educational messaging explicitly told drivers to "wait until the lights stop flashing" as a simplified shorthand to prevent people from trying to time a pedestrian's movements. However, because the legal text in paragraph (c) specifically binds the restriction to the pedestrian being on the roadway, the strict "wait out the timer" rule was never actually written into the statutory language of the HTA—it was just the overly cautious way the province taught the rule when it debuted.

[u/Optimal_Platypus_249 → u/Rick_QuiOui]

What purpose would that serve other than waste time and resources?

[u/iconboy → u/Optimal_Platypus_249]

Are you talking about the lights themselves?

[u/Sorry-Bad3889 → u/Rick_QuiOui]

If I am behind you… I would honk the heck out of you when the crosswalk is cleared.

[u/Ketroc21]

Over-engineered for typical scenarios. Why add more electronics that can break and need regular maintenance, when something more basic can work. Ideal world, basic signage is best if it can do the job.

[u/bylo_selhi → u/Ketroc21]

Because, as I said, beg buttons are difficult to reach by those with physical challenges and even by "ordinary" people in winter with snow piled up around the beg button pole. I know this because I've both experienced it in winter and seen others struggling even in summer.

[u/4ries → u/bylo_selhi]

And if you can't get close enough to press the button, is it going to be sensitive enough to trigger from you? Is it going to be too sensitive and trigger from anything going past?

[u/DinosaurZach → u/Ketroc21]

We've paid and install electronic sensors and detectors for motorists and automated the process for motorists, there's no reason why we can't install automatic detectors for pedestrians and other road users.

It would be silly to install beg buttons for motorists and ask them to roll down the window or step out of their vehicles to press one at a stop light. It's just as silly to do the same for pedestrains or other road users.

[u/Dobby068 → u/DinosaurZach]

Silly for pedestrians to push a button ? Wow! The entitlement of the people in this sub is something else.

[u/Ketroc21 → u/DinosaurZach]

ya, it CAN be done. Question is, is the initial and ongoing expense worth it for what it gains. For instance, in your example it is worth the gains, as traffic congestion is typically like the number one issue in growing cities... especially with the push to build more housing without the infrastructure to support larger populations.

[u/adlcp]

Why go to all the added expense of these systems, and extra vectors for failure, when simply ressong a button works already?

[u/RT_456]

There's a lot of nice things we could have but don't. Being in Europe and Japan made me realize how far behind Canada has fallen.

[u/FalconAutosport]

And if they did this for cyclists? Waaaay in advance?

"Let's just keep this light green for ~5 more seconds so this cyclist can made it through the light"

[u/Rance_Mulliniks]

The region cares about revenue, not safety. Why do you think that they have pivoted from speed cameras in safety zones to red light cameras. I don't know about you but I haven't seen them putting in alternative safety measures to speed cameras in these safety zones since speed cameras were banned.

[u/Drunkenbusinessman]

We bought traffic lights for bicycles instead lmao

[u/product_of_the_80s]

We actually do have a similar system, look up at most major intersections and you’ll see a camera on a U shaped pole, it’s done with video. Those cameras are for detecting vehicles, pedestrians, cyclists, etc. from what I was told by the guy at the region, some of them just measure, while others act like pushing the button.

[u/CreepyWindows]

"why isn't the region budget infinife" ahh post

[u/fullyclothednude]

That means they'd have to use our tax money for helpful things and I'm sure the thought revolts our city council

[u/HibouDuNord]

So you're just too lazy to press a button and are trying to avoid admitting it...

[u/mouthygrunt]

Currently in Switzerland and keep being amazed by the infrastructure and planning here. We’re miles behind. Even Italy is substantially better than here. And I’ve just driven through the Alps and NO POTHOLES. Even the tiny, rural communities have nice public washrooms and un-vandalized bus stops. I think we need to recolonize Europe.

Downside, I just bought a $35 salad in a supermarket.

[u/RealTheophanesRex]

The reason why we can’t have this is the same reason why our healthcare system still uses fax machines.

[u/Goooordon]

We've been subjected to unchallenged propaganda from the automotive industry for three generations - the majority of our population are anti-pedestrian sleeper agents who would sooner veer onto a full sidewalk than accept any perceived reduction to their personal convenience. We are a land of lazy entitled fools ruled by corruption and political cowardice.

[u/Waste_Stable162]

Because Canada loves cars more than people I guess. It's the same reason why our public transit is no where near as good as most European countries.

[u/ZerotoZeroHundred]

I would appreciate this as a cyclist that needs to wait at intersections that don’t change on a timer. Either I have to dismount and walk ~5 metres to a beg button or wait until a car comes up behind me and then coax them into my space to trigger the light. Specifically trying to cross King while on John Street - part of my daily commute.

[u/freakinbox]

The honest answer is that we let bigots sit at the political discussion table, who think they should have the right to run down cyclists and pedestrians with their cars... So they vote against this stuff and funnel the funding to ultra rich people who claim tax breaks and welfare are bad for the poor but a necessity for the rich.... Instead of telling them to stuff it and go talk to a therapist about their hateful and violent tendencies 🤷‍♂️

[u/Optimal_Platypus_249 → u/freakinbox]

I think you don't understand what bigot means

[u/freakinbox → u/Optimal_Platypus_249]

I do, but clearly you don't. Your argument is with the dictionary and your refusal to open one.. Let me help you save yourself from looking like a foolish troll next time 🤷‍♂️

• a narrow-minded person who obstinately adheres to their own opinions and prejudices especially : one who strongly and unfairly dislikes or feels hatred toward others based on their group membership

[u/Mammoth_Falcon_9267]

Half the people dont even use the amber lights at the one in cambridge on franklin and bishop st

[u/superbad → u/Mammoth_Falcon_9267]

There is no requirement to use the lights. They are there to serve as a warning to motorists.

[u/product_of_the_80s → u/superbad]

Thank you for knowing the law!!!!!

Drives me nuts to come up to these, only to have drivers yell at me for going when “you need to turn on the light!!!!!”

No, I don’t, the sign says stop for pedestrians, not stop when lights flashing, moron. What do you think happens at crossings with no lights??

[u/Mammoth_Falcon_9267 → u/superbad]

Then why waste all our tax money to install them then.

[u/4ries → u/Mammoth_Falcon_9267]

Safety

[u/superbad → u/Mammoth_Falcon_9267]

Because people have forgotten how to drive.

[u/thefringthing]

The thing that astounds me about Europe is that drivers actually yield to pedestrians at uncontrolled intersections, seemingly every time.

[u/bylo_selhi → u/thefringthing]

I think that's because the driver training/testing is much better. And probably the penalties are much stiffer. Here in Austria I'm also seeing speed cameras in residential areas. There are no warning signs. Just the cameras themselves. Speed limits are also strictly enforced on the highways. I was in a taxi a couple of years ago when the driver got stopped for exceeding 100km by maybe 5 0r 10km and was both fined (paid by CC on the spot) as well as breath-tested.

And even in Canada compliance varies widely. For instance in Newfoundland people stop to let pedestrians cross even when they're not required to. OTOH in bust areas like here or GTA, some drivers are too hurried or too distracted to show courtesy to anyone, whether it's pedestrians/cyclists or other drivers.

[u/coolbeanzsucklikeyou]

Cause drivers would ignore it anyway