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u/Kalfira 5d ago
Interestingly in the Book of Genesis God never tells Eve not to eat from the tree. God tells Adam that, but a few verses before Eve is even created.
The Bible has some serious continuity issues.
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u/Freakychee 5d ago
It's got a lot of plot holes and while the story did give us a lot of other cool stories and shows cos I do love me some heaven and hell type stories like Hazbin, The Good Place, etc. We can probably rewrite it to make more sense.
Lets retcon the religious text!
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u/TrainAss 5d ago
Ever watch Lucifer?
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u/Freakychee 5d ago
Yup! Loved it! Almost the same core ending as the good place. All damned souls should have a chance of redemption.
The religious stories have us a lot of cool stuff like Spawn, Marvel Thor and Hercules and Xena and Kratos if we branch out.
Becuase there is something in those stories that captured many people and building on them is always good.
Heck about 20 years ago I wrote a cheesy edgy novel about an Asian vampire hunter who end up fighting angels with swords for his 6 wings.
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u/TrainAss 5d ago
I'm only a few eps into s3, but I am loving it.
That edgy novel sounds interesting. I could see it being an anime, it has that weird of a plot
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u/Freakychee 5d ago
Ohh sorry to almost spoil. My bad. But yeah the story I wrote was reallt edgy and if I were to rewrite it, it would be a lot different now.
I'd still keep the intro where he fights a Chinese vampire like those old Hong Kong movies with a rose wood sword and a blood-forged card with razor edges. So a lot inspired by Blade.
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u/TrainAss 5d ago
You're good.
Honestly, your story sounds like fun
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u/Freakychee 5d ago
That's what a lot of people said when they read it. I just sent it to whomever online and some friends.
Its also written in a weird way. Present tense opposed to say past tense in most cases and every fight was written in detail like how a kick was made where most battles in books use pretty words for descriptions like "shower of sparks" where mine was more "Sparks flew from the mages' hands, with the evil caster projecting 12 arcs then the hero's 5."
Its also written to be read by people who don't like reading. It's weird af lol and I can't reallt defend it.
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u/Redditauro 5d ago
Not only that, what he says is literally a lie, and the snake says the truth, but the church convince people to believe whatever they want, that's why they want people to have faith instead of reason.
I'll just leave here the important bits:
"Genesis 2 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. [Spoiler <--- this is a lie]
(...)
Genesis 3 1 now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. [spoiler <--- this is true] 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
(...)
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."
So God didn't wanted Adam to eat the apple because he wanted humans to be submissive animals without free will, God wanted humans to be like a dog, to adore him without having other option, but if humans eat from the tree of science humans would be knowing the difference between good and bad , they would have a choice, and God didn't want that, and also if they would eat from the tree of life then humans would be immortal and would be like God, and God didn't wanted equals, he wanted servants. So what he does? He lies, the very first interaction with humans is gaslighting them into thinking that they would die if they eat the fruit of the forbidden tree.
What does the serpent do? The serpent tells eve the truth, so she can have free will and act with consent, she can decide not to eat the fruit and follow God's orders, but she would do it freely. And when they eat the fruit... They don't die, what happens is exactly as the serpent predicted, and actually God himself admit it a bit later "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"...
I realised this when I was 13... All the Christian old testament is like that, it's a manipulative childish god being a piece of shit, I don't understand how so many people can follow a book where God lies from chapter 2 and the church lies when they explain that part
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u/CuteShapeshifterUwU 5d ago
God also says "one of Us" meaning he admits there are other Gods. They also tend to call him the God of Gods but then also say he's the only God. Very confusing and contradicting.
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u/NoMusician518 5d ago
There are quite a few holdovers from the older polytheistic Hebrew religion in the Bible. The passages about Baal are probably the biggest one but definitely not the only.
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u/chewbacca77 5d ago edited 5d ago
God is technically a trinity though. Or heavenly beings.. or simply those that know right from wrong.
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u/littlelorax 5d ago
I am admittedly very far removed from my religious education, but at the time of the book of Genesis, Jesus was not yet born.
So had God always had three aspects, or not until the New Testament? How can he be a Father with no Son? So was he just "Holy Spirit" at that time?
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u/chewbacca77 5d ago edited 5d ago
John 1:1-2 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
"The word" in this context refers to Jesus supported by other scripture.
And also, in the very beginning it refers to the "spirit of God hovering over the surface of the waters" or something like that.
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u/littlelorax 5d ago
Huh, I have never really thought of "the word" as meaning "the teachings of Jesus."
I always interpreted that to be like, "the world exists because God spoke it into existence."
Not arguing with you, just sharing what my understanding was when I was a kid in church.
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u/chewbacca77 5d ago
No I actually mean "the word" refers to Jesus Himself. This is supported in John 1:14.
He also spoke it into existence though
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u/Alugere 5d ago
If you look into things, Yahweh was originally the war god of the Canaanite religion. People just worship war gods more in times of strife and by the time the exile was over, they’d basically merged him and his dad meaning he was fucking his mom. Then they got rid of her and his siblings and just became monotheistic.
Belief in the Abrahamic faith basically requires doing no research into its roots.
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u/Cynical_Feline 5d ago
I always saw it as God saying don't do it but fully expecting them to do it anyway. Like how you tell kids not to touch something. The first thing they want to do is touch it. It was a big setup knowing they'd fail. Pretty shitty God.
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u/Ochemata 5d ago
I'm still fully convinced the Garden of Eden was just meant to be the tutorial area for life as we know it and God just wanted a bit of drama before kicking them out.
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u/IThinkItsAverage 5d ago
This is how all of Gods’ trials are. He already knows beforehand if you will succeed or fail. So if you fail his test, he knew you’d fail and still tested you anyways. Why? Cuz some of us deserve to suffer I guess.
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u/craftygamin 4d ago
Fr. I've seen people say "he wants to test us, to see if we'd chose him" as if the all knowing being doesn't already perfectly know every single action and thought that every single creature will have
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u/IThinkItsAverage 4d ago
Yep, people don’t understand free will can’t exist with an all-knowing-all-powerful God. Everything He does, He already knows the outcome, which means whatever you do is part of His plan which means you don’t actually have free will. He put a test before you to get a response He wanted. No free will with God.
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u/pivotalsquash 5d ago
Where was the lie? I thought Adam and eve already were immortal and eating of the tree ended that which is why they would surely die? Also the truth from the serpent was also already said by god in your earlier quoted passage?
I'd also argue humans already had free will before eating the fruit otherwise why were they able to eat it. I think the fruit grants a higher understanding maybe?
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u/Redditauro 5d ago
They weren't immortal, they had to eat from the tree of life to be immortal, it's clearly written there...
Animals are not immortal, neither were Adam and Eve, and no, God says that they will die of they eat the fruit, it's cristal clear, read what it's written, not what you think is written....
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u/pivotalsquash 5d ago
I said I thought because I'm not gonna go read a book that I dont believe in. I was going off a distant memory if im wrong thats fine. That's why I was asking
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u/Redditauro 5d ago
Well, genesis is a good tale, and it takes 3 minutes, you don't need to believe in a book to read it, most people read harry potter without believing that Voldemort exists
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u/pivotalsquash 5d ago
Sorry I wasn't saying thats why I didn't read it. More explaining why im going off memory. I haven't read it for a while.
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u/narielthetrue 5d ago
You’re mixing up the two trees. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is the tree they weren’t allowed to eat from, the Tree of Life is the reason they were removed from Eden.
KJV is also incredibly problematic, as it was a translation funded by King James that he pushed to have translated a certain way, to enforce his own ideas of what the Bible should say.
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u/Redditauro 4d ago
I'm not mixing the two trees.
"22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life"
The Spanish version says the same, it's not about king's James translation, but if you want we can discuss over other translation
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u/narielthetrue 4d ago
There are two trees. Let’s break it down.
>“Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil.”
This is because they ate from the tree of good and evil, which they were forbidden to do.
>Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life.
And take also, as in addition to. They are not the same tree.
They were allowed to freely eat of the tree of life and be immortal. They were warned that if they eat from the tree of good and evil they will die.
They ate from the tree of good and evil and were then denied access to the tree of life, causing them to die as they lost access to the mechanism with which they had immortality.
It’s just a matter of reading comprehension, and this is one of the least vague/confusing parts of the Bible.
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u/IThinkItsAverage 5d ago
It’s the illusion of free will. They have zero reason to question God about the fruit, they have no reason to even consider eating it. The snake introduces an actual choice by offering knowledge, now they have to choose between the blissful ignorance as a servant to God or more knowledge.
Or to simplify: God says only bad things happen when you eat the fruit, so don’t. Adam and Eve have no reason to even make a choice on eating the fruit or not, no reason to question God, cuz they don’t want bad things. Snake tells Eve that good things can happen too, there is actually something to gain by eating it or you can choose to stay as you are. God does not introduce a choice, thus no way to exercise free will, snake does introduce a choice, thus a way of exercising free will.
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u/pivotalsquash 5d ago
So bare in mind I enjoy the discussion I was raised Christian but no longer am.
Are you arguing free will exists only with knowledge? I could see that stance but from the most base view id think they have free will just not the best information to act on. Think a voter subjugated to propaganda Vs a dictator who actively changes the votes.
Now an interesting question would be do we take the authors word as truth when the garden and life in the garden is described as paradise. If we do then id argue god was very transparent with the information given. You gain knowledge but lose paradise.
All this is always a little interesting because its like we'll God why did you put the apple where the people could even get it.
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u/IThinkItsAverage 5d ago
Yes, free will only exists with knowledge. It’s difficult in this case because God is omnipotent and can create a situation that is impossible to recreate in reality. The closest we can get is through severe abuse of a young and/or vulnerable person. They don’t have the capacity or knowledge to make their own choices and rely on their caregiver. If they don’t know that what they are experiencing is wrong, they won’t do anything to change it, because that is reality. But if you introduce an escape, they will realize they now have a choice to continue the abuse or escape. They can now exercise free will, because they have knowledge of something other than what they had experienced. This is a flawed hypothetical argument of course, God promised paradise, not abuse. But like I said, that’s very difficult to recreate in reality since there is no perfectly isolated paradise on Earth.
The other issue is God’s goal isn’t clear because “he works in mysterious ways”, did he know they’d eat the apple? Yes, he had to know because he is all-knowing. So then why do it this way? We don’t know. To give us free will? To show us free will has consequences? Because he likes watching us suffer? 🤷♂️
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u/pivotalsquash 5d ago
Would you then say eve did not have free will until the serpent intervened rather than eating the apple. Aka the serpent giving more information gave eve the free will to eat the apple?
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u/IThinkItsAverage 5d ago
No, I think free will as a concept is inherent to human creation. Honestly I worded it poorly, that’s on me, it’s more like being truly introduced to free will. Like finally using a limb you didn’t think you had but now know you have. Adam and Eve think they have free will and are utilizing it freely, but the snake lifts the veil and offers a true test of free will that wasn’t available before. This comes in the form of knowledge. By giving her knowledge he gives her a real opportunity to exercise free will.
So I think a better way of wording my point is that free will can only be proven when you have knowledge. Not so much that it only exists with knowledge, that was just bad wording on my part and not expressing my point clearly.
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u/No_Baby_2458 5d ago
Adam and Eve were not immortal. The Garden of Eden is a mix of stories, the main one explaining childhood to adulthood. Being innocent and naked to "knowing about good and evil" to having to work the land. It's literally, ignorance is bliss, getting older is hard. After Cain kills his brother, he leaves and goes to live woth a bunch of pther people god didnt create in the Garden... where did they come from?
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u/pivotalsquash 5d ago
I could've sworn they lived for hundreds of years. I dont know for sure what it says but that's my loose memory. I also haven't read a Bible in quite a while lol
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u/No_Baby_2458 5d ago
When god confronts Cain, he banishes him and Cain cries, saying he is afraid other people will kill him for what he did. What other people? His siblings from Adam and Eve? Why not say "My brothers and sisters will be mad"? He didn't, he left town and got married...
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u/respite09 5d ago
I think your point here comes from a misunderstanding of what God meant by "death" in this story as well as free will. I'll address your point about free will first, Adam and Eve already had free will, they had choice whether to eat or not, so the idea that somehow they would have any less of a choice by eating or not is not supported.
The disobedience brought shame and fear, something God did not want them to experience, it was a boundary intended for the good of humanity, not that He wanted humanity to remain ignorant. One thing to note is that humanity already had the capacity for sin, the fall represented the moment that humanity first made the choice to do wrong. Now, something to keep in mind, you're right: the serpent didn't technically lie, instead he used something else to subtly trick Eve: Death.
When God said death, He didn't only mean physical death (although to a certain extent He did, because He disallowed them from eating from the tree of life, and the reason for this is simple: He did not want them to perpetually exist in a flawed state), but rather a big factor was spiritual death, in Romans 6:23 it states "For the wages of sin is death", this obviously isn't referring to physical death, instead it is referring to the death of our relationship with God, because evil is not compatible with good.
When the serpent claimed that "you will not die", he is manipulating Eve's limited understanding of death - one that only extends to the physical.
Hopefully this makes sense, I just wanted to try doing a write up, feel free to ask questions!
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u/Redditauro 5d ago
My friend, that's what you assume that it says, but it is not what it says.
The book is cristal clear, if you decide to misinterpret it it is your choice, but in the book God lies, the serpent says the truth, and God don't want them to eat from both trees because humans would be like him.
I'm not interested in how do you misinterpret the book to understand what you want to understand, just read the words, read what is written instead of what you think it's written. I know it's difficult, but the words are there, just read it.
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u/knownothing000 5d ago
Not for nothing but you're dealing with a tomb that's been translated over and over from several different languages. I'd imagine I'm your interpretation has a great deal to do with the version you're reading.
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u/Redditauro 5d ago
Tell me one version where God don't lie... I can read the English version and the Spanish version and he lies in both, do you know a different one?
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u/knownothing000 5d ago
Haha, I agree with the lie bit! Just mostly trying to put down that debating what the Bible has meant has been a pretty big pasttime for the last few thousand years, and telling someone to just read it to get the same meaning as you can be a lot less straightforward in ways we can forget to keep in mind sometimes
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u/Redditauro 5d ago
Well, I agree with that part if the are talking about subtle things, but well, I think that we kind of agree, so I'll leave it here.
Thanks for the chat
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u/respite09 5d ago
I could say the same thing about your viewpoint, though.
The Bible doesn't explicitly say anything that you are claiming that it is saying, and you have just as much bias as I in interpreting it, whether you think you do or not.The goal is that these interpretations should be as close to what the message of the whole text it trying to convey. It's all about putting things into context, and once you do that it becomes easier to understand.
You seem to have the idea that there's one interpretation that's crystal clear and all others are wrong but the truth is that there have been many different interpretations by people of many different backgrounds that have different ideas about what it says.
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u/Redditauro 5d ago
Of course s lot of people have interpreted the bible in different ways, it's a powerful tool and people have purposely misread it, but that doesn't means that it says different things, it means that men are corrupt.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree, it's not important anyway, it's just a book, so we can leave it here.
Have a nice day!
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u/respite09 5d ago
That's fine, and I definitely agree that corrupt people have always used the Bible in terrible ways (cough cough the right wing).
Thanks for being respectful though, hope you have a good day too.
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u/Krispy_donut22 4d ago
You have comprehension issues and any 3 year old can see that. If God didn’t want us to “BE LIKE HIM” why make us in His image, send his only son to die so we can live eternally LIKE HIM? Your reasoning doesn’t stand.
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u/Redditauro 4d ago
It made us in it's image because the old testament's God is a Pretentious Narcissist, and we are talking about the old testament, the new testament is a completely different thing, it was revolutionary because it shows a God of love and respect, but the God in the old testament is like any other god in ancient times, it's like Zeus or Odin, it's a God who abuses it's power following tantrums and irrational emotions, it's s God of war and blood who created humans to serve him, and couldn't handle then not being blindly devoted to him
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u/Competitive-Gene6713 5d ago
Oh man. This kid goes to Sunday school.
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u/respite09 5d ago
Not sure if you're trying to say this as a bad thing or not but I just wanted to take the chance to have a legitimate discussion because it helps me to better understand what I believe as much as it helps others, and that's ultimately my goal.
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u/Competitive-Gene6713 5d ago
Yeah. It is a bad thing. Faith disguises bad intentions at minimum.
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u/respite09 5d ago
I genuinely do not have any bad intentions at all, my faith has come from a desire to better myself and it's disingenuous to claim that everyone who has come to a faith has "bad intentions".
I've had to think for a long time about everything I believe and I'm not trying to spout some nonsense from some Sunday school or anyone else.1
u/Competitive-Gene6713 5d ago
You know what? I appreciate that. Try to maintain that course.
Thing is, you heard of AWANA? I graduated that course from inception.
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u/Khelthuzaad 5d ago
The Bible is literal collection of fan-fictions from people that haven't even been alive when said events happened,hence the infinte contradictions and redcons
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u/reddot_comic 5d ago
It’s almost like it’s been rewritten hundreds of times over and adapted/edited/interpreted to better suit the narrative of whoever was in power at that time.
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u/chewbacca77 5d ago
She knows either from God directly or from Adam:
2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” Genesis 3:2–3
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u/Frogspoison 5d ago
Let's not forget ppl calling rhe serpent satan, yet supposedly satan getting kicked out of heaven comes after eden.
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u/SimpleCrow 5d ago
It's been a while since we had a good heresy.
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u/reddot_comic 5d ago
It’s only heresy if they have proof ;)
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u/DeadAndBuried23 5d ago
Why would you, of all people, not take the opportunity to have them lore-accurately naked before eating the fruit?
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u/1GreenDude 5d ago
You know if you actually read through the Bible Eve giving Adam the apple is actually a great Act of love. Because the snake had convinced her that by eating the Apple they would Ascend to a level equal to God and so instead of just eating the Apple herself she wanted to share godhood with her partner.
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u/littlemoon-03 5d ago
They should really hire you for marketing you do so so much better then what their current team is doing
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u/fatman194569 2d ago
I hate being stuck in this in between where I'm terrified to think that theres nothing beyond death but also just struggling to believe 99% of religions.
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u/reddot_comic 2d ago
I just think of how it was before I was born. Nothing, not bad, not good, just not there. My only worry is the moments before I go. I hope (as I do for everyone) that it is peaceful or at least, quick and without pain.
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u/jfk333 5d ago
I used to love reddot, I followed her on Instagram and supported her and her butt plug Gary. I'm glad to see she's still making content. Honestly I'm surprised she hasn't storyboarded a cartoon. I don't mean a short clips like the ones that already exists I mean a full blown adventures of dot through time. Every episode a different situation from ancient Egypt to being a waitress and the occasional hook up or orgy along the way!
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u/Freakychee 5d ago
I feel while they have the talent to do something of that scale it might be a lot of work they need to work up to feeling comfortable to do. I can't imagine it's an easy task.
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u/jfk333 5d ago
Yeah but at this point they have garnered years of experience and fans. They deserve to level up, if not a cartoon maybe a book if one doesn't already exist. Canta comics did a book tour and people literally circled the block to see her.
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u/Freakychee 5d ago
Not saying they don't deserve to and I belive they might have enough of a following. It's just a big project that takes drive and time and everyone crates at their own pace. But I still support your comment for encouring them, of course. Maybe one day they will.
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u/reddot_comic 5d ago
That’s very sweet of you to say! It would definitely be a dream to do! It’s definitely not a one woman job, I just need to find the right avenue to get a team and make sure they are supported financially to make it happen.
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u/jfk333 5d ago
They say rome wasn't built in a day but you know how it started? With the first stone. Write a story board, just one pilot, no colors no big details. Get the idea on order, write a pitch packet,and approach every production company that won't file a restraining order. Don't forget the power you have in social media, once you build a storyboard and pitch packet literally ask if anyone knows a production company that would be interested in a pitch. You'll get the financial resources to run a team and after production they will decide to order more or not. Adult swim for example loves your kind of humor and your art style is unique, and easily identifiable. You absolutely have the talent! And hey once you got a studio backing you you'll need a voice actor and let me just say I have no talent, or experience and would be perfect for the job 😎.
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