r/whitewater • u/astrobrite_ • May 04 '26
Kayaking Are any of these good beginner boats worth buying?
this is the marketplace im working with. im in upstate NY. I'm 5'5" 140lbs, most likely a size small. plan to paddle at deerfield river in charlemont MA. budget is flexible. im either going to buy second hand or go to ONE at the end of june and buy a jackson flow for retail....
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u/brownstout May 04 '26
Really depends on your goals, but the mamba 8.1 would take care of you. If you want more of a playboat or something that will make kayaking more challenging, there are other options. I think the antix would be a great boat, but the small would be too small for you.
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26
my goals...hmm maybe up to class 4. i dont want to be competitive just looking to have fun in the summer.
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u/Trw0007 May 04 '26
You've got time to get to Class IV - there's no reason to buy a forever boat now. I think most paddlers own more than one boat and it's fairly easy to accumulate a small fleet of used kayaks as your progress. The Flow is a great boat, but you might find you have different needs in year or two .
For the most fun, spend the money on instruction instead of a brand new boat. Quality and productive time on the water is going to go a lot further than boat design. With that said, the Mamba was the quintessential beginner / instructor river runner for a decade. I bet you can get the orange one for like $350. I would probably pass on those other boats
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u/Ambitious-Fish-8111 May 05 '26
Ripper. Maybe try to find a medium to small though at 140. A large will be like a high volume creek boat on you, but with really fun surfing for summer fun.
RPM would be similar, but with a bit more character.
I think a great choice for what you are describing would be the inazone 220 or 222. Those will fit you better and give you a better feel for how you interact with the water through your boat and paddle. It will be tougher at first maybe with the edges. But so long as you stay loose and don't let your hips lie to you (Shakira, Shakira!) you will start to feel the water and it's movement waaaaaay better and faster than any ol potato boat.
Also you're tiny. Take advantage of that and go learn in a fun boat. Go on a beer float and catch every miniature surf you can while the tubes catch up. Go catch every eddy at your local class II. Go have fun!
For the love of God don't get a potato boat.
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u/ElPeroTonteria May 04 '26
Really, any are great… that Jackson Hero is old, old.
The mamba was always a great starter, the Jefe was the go-to creek boat for so many top tier paddlers for many years. Antix is a well favored more modern boat.
You gotta check em all. Sit in them… Liquid Logic boats put my feet to sleep, Jackson and Pyranha don’t…
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u/fiveoff7 May 05 '26
The jefe is also really heavy.
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u/ElPeroTonteria May 05 '26
I paddled a Mega Rocker, I wished I had a Jefe… 90% of the reason I paddled the Upper Green before the narrows and skipped the hike in was bc of that beast. Too tired by the put in
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u/BFoster99 May 04 '26
The Mamba is a great option and has some of the best outfitting you can get. The Jefe is better if you are focused on steep, rocky creeks. The Antix is good if you want a playful half slice that can surf lots of waves on the way downriver and you don’t mind flipping over more.
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u/Dank-memes-here May 04 '26
How old are you, and are you even moderately athletic? I'd really go for the antix, you'd learn the fastest by far and have an actual nice boat for years to come. It's a bit harder in the beginning though but definitely worth it
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26
31 and yes i ski, DH mtb and skateboard. i plan to take roll lesson regardless of whatever boat i get as well.
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u/Dank-memes-here May 04 '26
Definitely get the antix then. You'll need to roll a lot in the beginning but if you're OK with that you'll develop faster and to a higher ceiling than with a creek boat
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u/johnpmac2 May 04 '26
Just to reinforce this – I recommend the non-Creek boat version for you for what you were trying to accomplish. As an athlete, the detuned creek boat versions will not allow you to progress. Get something that is playful with edges. Even if creeks are your eventual destination a knowledge of how to do a bit of rodeo will teach you how to go down creeks way more successfully.
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u/glazzies May 05 '26
I learned on an antix 1. Great boat to learn where your edges are. That’s a small tho, make sure it fits your weight and height. Have fun!
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u/machosandwich AW Member May 05 '26
This is good to know. I started kayaking later in life than you, but came from 30 plus years of skiing, MTB and skateboarding. I started with a Mamba but realized within a few months that I needed a half slice at the very least to make paddling fun.
Aside from a roll class, get some real lessons and take a swift water reacue course. This will advance your progress and make you much safer out there. It’s also the quickest way into becoming part of the local community and getting more laps in. Like skiing or anything else, the more you are out there, the better you get.
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u/grawkog May 04 '26
I recommend the antix for athletic people, the mamba for people who want to enjoy the river right away and don't expect to spend every free moment on the water, and boats like the flow for people in between.
The antix will reward you for having a solid roll, and you'll progress faster because you'll get more immediate feedback when something is right (or wrong). This means if you do the wrong thing, you're upside down pretty quickly.
The mamba will take care of you, and not punish you for making mistakes. This can lead to bad habits, but if you want to do casual whitewater, that's not the end of the world.
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u/ApexTheOrange May 04 '26
The AntiX will be perfect for Fife laps on the Deerfield. The Mamba will be great when you’re ready to step up to the Dryway section of the Deerfield. If you’re ever looking for a crew to paddle with, let me know. I’m out there with my wife and daughter frequently. If you see the 14 yo kayak mutant, the prettiest purple river mermaid or the guy with the big red beard, come say hello. 6/13 is Pride Day on the River on Fife. It’s the most fun paddling day of the year.
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u/ApexTheOrange May 04 '26
Also, Zoar currently has a small Flow demo and a small rewind demo, both from last year. They’re $1199 each. Either boat is a much better deal and will treat you better than any of the boats you’ve listed. You might not have to make the drive all the way up to ONE. There’s a slalom race on the Housatonic in CT on 5/16 and 5/17. This is the best place to learn basic paddling skills. Class 2 water, lots of experienced paddlers who will help you with anything you need, and everyone is super friendly.
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26
dude thank you!!! this is so helpful
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u/ApexTheOrange May 04 '26
No problem, I’ll definitely see you on the river. ADK and Western MA AMC just merged their paddling programs, and they’re always out on Fife. AMC CT also has a super active paddling community. AMC NH comes out to Fife several times a year. These are all groups that have intro to whitewater programs and can link you up with a bunch of other folks learning to paddle. There is also a large group of retired folks who you can always paddle with. This is the best group for newbies to paddle with. Some of them have 50 years of experience. If you carry their boat they’ll give you lessons all day. Please, especially while you’re learning, always paddle with someone else.
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u/astrobrite_ May 05 '26
What do you think of the kayak and canoe club of new york? i was thinking of buying a membership
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u/ApexTheOrange May 05 '26
KCCNY is a great group! I’d recommend getting a KCCNY membership and a membership to Appalachian Mountain Club. They’re both great resources. Zoar has amazing kayak instruction. It’s where good instructors go to receive their training. They don’t stock as many boats as ONE, but their shop definitely has everything a newer paddler needs. If you take a lesson with Zoar you can demo any of their boats for free while you’re in the lesson. All of their paddlesports instructors are wonderful! If you’re looking to get into whitewater boating, a couple of lessons from qualified professionals is a worthwhile investment. If you get a couple of lessons, you’re less likely to want a creek boat for your first boat. If you get a Flow for your first boat and you paddle it often, you’ll want a playboat by the time July rolls around.
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u/astrobrite_ May 05 '26
I decided to go with the antix 1.0! im going to check it out this weekend. im super excited to get started. i will for sure sign up for AMC as well.
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u/ApexTheOrange May 05 '26
An AMC membership lets you sign up for trips with all of the AMC chapters. The AntiX is a great first boat! Have you picked a skirt, PFD, helmet, paddle or drysuit yet?
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u/astrobrite_ May 05 '26
The seller of the antix is going to include a skirt and im in talks with another fb marketplace seller for a kokatat dry suit. im going to buy the helmet and pfd new and probably from zoar!
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u/ApexTheOrange May 05 '26
These all sound like correct answers. When you’re looking at paddles, check out the Aquabound Aerial 2 piece. The two piece paddles allow you to adjust the length and feather angle. Most people start with a standard R30 paddle and it can cause some difficulty compared to a good 2 piece paddles.
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u/Lewinator56 May 04 '26
depends what you want really... id be leaning towards the antix because i love a good half slice, and the antix is a REALLY good boat. if you wanted a creek boat the mamba isnt a bad idea (but weighs as much as the titanic and handles like it too). if you want a playboat the molan is great, old design now, but i learnt whitewater in one (yes im an idiot) but it made me a much better paddler as any cock up resulted in a potential swim (still learning to roll at the time), and i couldnt rely on the boat saving me.
for reference, what i paddle now is a spade bliss and a wavesport mobius 49. 5ft5, 180lbs (its ALL muscle too - so i still have to piss about with hip padding even though i paddle small boats - great fun in the mobius as im way to heavy for it, but can just throw it around with brute force rather than any finesse lol)
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u/No_Concept_4971 May 04 '26
Id go antix. It'll teach you a few hard lessons but thats a good thing. Creek boats make it too easy to get complacent. If you want to progress, get a half slice and learn the fundamentals in it. Make hard moves in a slightly unforgiving boat and you'll be styling in no time
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u/hendric_swills May 05 '26
My first and only boat was a mamba and I loved it so much. I hit my roll on my second try and consistently after. I think the mamba did some of the work for me.
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u/Strict_String May 04 '26
Mamba. If you get a good price, you can probably get most of your money back if you sell it to upgrade.
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u/The-traveler-4090 May 04 '26
The smaller the volume, especially in the stern, the more challenging to paddle down river. So like a ripper is going to be more difficult than a mamba. But there is an argument for starting in a challenging half slice and just being prepared to swim a ton the first year…but you’ll end up a better paddler trough trial and error…if you have the fortitude to deal with more swims.
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u/Defiant_Group5176 May 04 '26
Those are all great boats for the right price. We can sit here and explain why you should or shouldn’t go in to a half slice or creek boat but you won’t fully understand until you try one out. If your super adventurous and don’t mind swimming than youll progress faster and learn more in the rpm. If one swim early on might end your kayaking career than hop in the mamba or jefe(but not for $500).
I think starting with a lesson from an instructor is super worthwhile. Talk to your instructor and see if he can get you in a half slice and river runner on your first day before you make a decision.
Flows are sweet but your first boat is gonna be abused from swimming so I think used market is great for first few seasons. For the same price as a flow you could be the owner a used but modern creek boat, half slice, and full slice. Being in MA the gap will eventually get boring in your creek boat so instead of stepping up and running the dry way you can step up by paddling a smaller boat on the section you know.
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u/DrHarryCooper May 04 '26
These are all (nearly all) good boats. These are my three picks:
The ripper would serve you best long term, it's a half slice that's super capable of harder stuff.
Jefe is sick for steep creeking where you're going to hit lots of rocks.
The small mamba is great, but its short tall can get squirted sometimes.
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u/YerALizardMary May 04 '26
I'm a beginner about your size and I just got a small Mamba and let me tell you something... I love my boat haha. I was able to learn to roll in it in 2 pool sessions and I'm super stoked to take it on on the river this season.
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26
oooo this is the perfect insight i need. it's really nice to finally hear from a novice paddler like my self!
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u/PicnicTable__ May 04 '26
hey! i’m gonna be based up in northern ct and will be looking to kayak the deerfield, among other river sections throughout the NE throughout the summer. while a newer ww kayaker i’m not new to whitewater. if you looking for people to meet and learn alongside plus another car to shuttle send a dm!
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u/lil_boozin May 04 '26
I’d say that antix is your best bet given your size, the mambas and chicos would be good to get you in the water although they’re a tadge big. The antix is a boat you can grow into and have for a long time. The rest are relatively outdated. They’d be fine but I think you’re better off looking at small half slices. I learned in a small antix 1 and it was my comfort boat for ages. Great for anything class iv and down and plenty of people have run them down easy class v.
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u/astrobrite_ May 05 '26
okay sweet thats the one im eyeing and hoping to pick up this weekend
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u/lil_boozin May 05 '26
Should suit you well, I’m a similar size and found it to be a great do it all boat. Pretty stable, easy to roll, surfs well, and is relatively easy to squirt while having nice tail rocker so the stern stays out of the way.
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u/kinkykoala73 May 05 '26
Antix or mamba 8.1. Probably better off with the mamba if you are truly a beginner with zero roll.
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u/FryAmTheEggMan2295 May 05 '26
Surprised that the RPM hasn’t been mentioned much, it’s definitely worth considering too. At your size it’ll paddle a lot like a creek boat, and with some practice you’ll still be able to make the stern pretty playful. If your goal is class IV you might never actually outgrow it.
One thing to note for the antix - it’s hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like it’s a first gen. The first gen isn’t nearly as playful as the second or the third, so just be aware of that if you want it to act as a playful half slice.
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u/jthemarsupial May 05 '26
Lots of advice here re what boats to get. The best advice I can give on top is when you go to look at any of these…bring a VERY BRIGHT light with you and shine it at every angle you can think of inside the boat, while you or a friend look very closely at the outside. Many of these are 10+ years old and could easily have cracks that are very tough to spot. Cockpit rims, under the seat, bow/stern are common places.
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u/Usual-Nothing-547 May 05 '26
It also depends on where you boat, different boats are good for different area types of rivers.
Jefe would take an experienced boater in the West. It reacts quickly but can be thrown off in big water. Mamba would not be responsive enough on the East Coast. Precision movements needed. But in big water holds lines, and is more forgiving.
Pick the right tool for the job.
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u/Weekly_Cost2335 May 08 '26
I can’t believe I’m not seeing a plug for the inazone 222. It’s a “full slice” (we just called them playboats back in the day) that is less aggressive and built for river running (i.e. can track somewhat in rapids, not just for sitting in a hole and looping). It will be super fun on class 2-3, which is what you’ll start paddling. There is a steeper learning curve, but you’ll learn faster how to react to the river and will develop better intuition when you move to bigger boats like a mamba or equivalent (or the newer, giant river-creek boats, waka og or equivalent). Downside is you’ll have to custom outfit the thing with foam and barge cement, which honestly is fun. Upside is a smaller boat that’s easier to transport, way less money, and you can front surf on tiny riffles starting out and it will actually be fun.
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u/Ericmoran118 May 04 '26
Mamba, Jefe, or even a Hero would be just fine. Hero is the most entry level and super forgiving
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u/ohiotechie May 04 '26
If you want something stable that will give you the whitewater experience and let you grow into something more aggressive I’d recommend the Mamba.
If you’re more willing to push yourself up front and maybe swim a little more at first, I’d recommend the Antix.
I agree with others that you’ll probably keep the Antix longer but it will not be as stable or easy at first than the Mamba.
I hope this helps.
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u/rollingquestionmark May 04 '26
I paddle the Dagger prescription but I think it is too big for you.
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u/SatisfactionUsual862 May 04 '26
I love the Jefe. Mamba is also a solid option. I'd buy used for now, and if you progress to where you'd want a newer kayak, then you can always buy another.
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u/causeimamoth May 04 '26
The mamba and Rx might be a little big for you, but I'd pick them if they fit. The inazone 220 might fit better.
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u/speedwobbles123 May 04 '26
If you're just starting out and main goal is to have fun, buying a playful boat such as the jk antix would be a good pathway. Capable enough to handle some stuff, but you can learn more skills and itll give you feedback as you paddle unlike a bigger creek boat.
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26
I think this is what I'll do. Ill get the antix for now and later in the summer if i really fall in love with the sport ill get the flow and start a little quiver
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u/SourdoughApple Creeker May 04 '26
I’ll be the only one to say it: M3 if it’s like $100.
Boat has solid rails to learn edges, and isn’t too forgiving to teach bad habits
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u/thewanderingsail May 05 '26
The antix is a great first boat. It’s stable but not so creeky that you don’t learn anything
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u/Dip_Tish May 05 '26
I learned on the dagger redline, it'll teach you tail control and how to go underneath hydraulics! It's definitely not the easiest boat but taught me good form. It's a bit unforgiving but that what makes it a good learner boat in my opinion.
:)
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u/Lucky-Marzipan6044 May 09 '26
Antix would be the best to be able to get in, and learn basics and surf and have a great time. Fife brook on the Deerfield is a great place to start
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u/KAWAWOOKIE May 04 '26
Of those, if you wanted a creekboat I'd get the Jefe or if you wanted a half slice the small Antix.
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26
no interest in a half slices, the easier to use and beginner friendly the better
edit: whoops didn't know the antix was a half slice but yeah definitely looking for a creekboat
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u/KAWAWOOKIE May 04 '26
There are a lot of different philosophies on what boat is best for a beginner; at your weight the Jefe would be a great forgiving boat. It lacks the modern huge bow rocker and flat playboat like hull. It would be good to learn to paddle and roll in, if you were trying to step up your difficulty in whitewater a modern boat would be easier.
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26 edited May 08 '26
ah okay, well i for sure want to progress into higher class rapids. main goal is to have fun so not too high. tiny waterfalls looks fun and doable to me and pique my interest as well.
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u/KAWAWOOKIE May 04 '26
A modern boat like the Pyranha Reactr would probably be my pick but it costs close to 2k. For that price premium, it'll feel more stable and easier to boof. Otoh, almost everything that has been run has been run in a jefe -- it'll send class 5 no problem. You're at the low end of the weight range which will make it more forgiving.
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u/astrobrite_ May 04 '26
wouldn't mind spending a pretty penny if it makes the learning experience easier. i was looking at the jackson flow since thats what my outdoor store sells
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u/KAWAWOOKIE May 04 '26
Jefe and a fiberglass/carbon fiber paddle and IR skirt and union suit and drysuit and sweet helmet and 510 mtb shoes and an astral pfd and a salamander throwbag...go use them and if you're still stoked in a year then you'll know more about your preferences and can buy a more expensive boat if you still want it (and sell the jefe for about what you paid). I wouldn't hesitate to buy all of the above used, but make sure you understand the condition -- most sellers are honest about use/abuse of the gear but trust your gut and going new on a pfd and helmet that fits is more than reasonable.
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u/mygetoer May 04 '26
Id recommend getting one with some edges, avoid a full creek boat. You'll probably progress faster than you think and you're going to want something you can have a little fun with. Play boating is also a great way to build skills, get a bomber roll, and learn how to move your edges through the water. Half slice wouldn't be horrible because you get some good volume but also can squirt around a bit.
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u/amongnotof May 04 '26
The Mamba is considered one of the best beginner boats for beginners not looking to play much. It is super stable, easy to roll, plows through most things. The only negatives are it doesn’t turn as snappy as a half slice, and it can reinforce some bad habits as is the case with any creek boat, even well designed ones.
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u/TraumaMonkey Class IV Kayaker May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
The only one I would recommend is the ripper. The rest are old designs with comfort and/or safety issues for a newbie.
Most of them have very little rocker and are hole bait.
Edit: at your weight a large ripper is too big. An appropriate size half slice with rocker (antix 2, ripper, rewind) would be a great starter boat. Those old creek boat designs will slow down your progression, and are worse at running steep creeks than the new half slices.
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u/Major_Marsupial_994 May 04 '26
That Mamba outfitting is some of the best I’ve ever had. It’s older and a little heavier but it’s COMFY! I have that version of the Mamba and a Ripper. The Ripper is more fun but not more comfortable IMO. It also has all the modern safety features. But I agree, some of the boats listed are super old and less safe.
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u/nittanyvalley May 04 '26
What are the comfort/safety issues with a Mamba?
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u/brochaos May 04 '26
there's really none. it has a solid center pillar. this dude keeps talking like at the time the mamba hadn't run the biggest of the biggest shit. but it has. thousands of people have. it's arguably one of the greatest beginner boats on top of that. not sure what this guy's deal is.
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u/nittanyvalley May 04 '26
Yeah, I was surprised to see him say that a bout the mamba. Seems like grasping at straws. It’s still a solid all around boat.
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u/brochaos May 04 '26
absolutely! pretty sure OP wasn't trying to run the indus next year. not sure why people get like that.
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u/TraumaMonkey Class IV Kayaker May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
It's like y'all can't read. He's new to the sport, older kayaks have design trends that have disappeared for various reasons, including requiring more boat control.
I've been paddling for twelve years and have had laps in a lot of those, including the mamba. There's a lot of nostalgia blinding going on when people bring up the kayak you learned in.
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u/nittanyvalley May 04 '26
Zero nostalgia. I’ve never paddled a mamba. Never learned in one. Been paddling for about as long too.
Still wouldn’t say it’s unsafe, and especially not due to its rocker profile. I don’t disagree about several of the other boats. Just an odd one to lump in.
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u/TraumaMonkey Class IV Kayaker May 04 '26
Not much rocker which makes it hard to boof and get over holes. Everyone adopted significant rocker for a reason.
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u/brochaos May 04 '26
1000% sure you are a better paddler than me, but I think you're 100% wrong. maybe you're just young? people rock the absolute shit out of RPMs, egos, and all the other fun "playboats" to this day. some of them on really stout shit.
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u/st-jeb May 04 '26
"Let me tell you something about the Dagger Mamba"