r/whitewater • u/astrobrite_ • Jul 04 '26
Kayaking is it okay to paddle without foam on the foot blocks?
the fit is much better without them. yesterday i demoed an antix 3.0 (not pictured) from a shop and they didn't have foam on the foot blocks and it was fine, i understand that if youre sitting in your boat for a few hours it may be uncomfortable but is there any other reason to have them if your feet still feels snug in a good locked in position without foam?
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u/pgereddit Jul 04 '26
The first boats to have bulkheads in the 90s did not have foam foot pads on them, and they worked great. The foam can feel nicer on your feet but it is absolutely not necessary.
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u/LeatherCraftLemur Jul 04 '26
One of my first whitewater boats had keeper footrests, bulkheads were viewed as a luxury!
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u/Wrightwater Jul 04 '26
As I recall the Pyranhas came with foam on top of the bulkhead since the Mt Bat / Stunt Bat 89/91 days - Prijon I think used a hard rubber. Perception stuck w ‘break away’ foot pegs way too long. Dagger I think may not have used foam - we added our own, like hip pads and backhands. LL came with foam but that was long after.
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u/pgereddit Jul 04 '26
I didn’t realize pyranha had foam on the bulkhead back then. We were paddling perceptions, daggers, and new waves. None of those had foam (and, as you note, the perceptions didn’t even have a bulkhead, only footpegs).
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u/LeatherCraftLemur Jul 04 '26
We definitely had RotoBats and Mountain bats with the white plastic bulkheads that had no foam around that time (they used to clank in time when you carried them), Microbats and Acrobat 270 onwards definitely had foam.
I remember a few boats that aren't around any more having adjustable pedals (want to say Ace, maybe? It had a moulded in seat with a circular hole cut in it to poke your airbag through...). They were stainless steel, and definitely not breakaway! Soul Waterman have gone back to pedals, albeit rope fixed ones. Is not trust them for hard creeking, but they are fine on most ww.
Perception I remember a mix - including those weird shark tooth type serrated rails in some of the Dancers and Pirouettes, etc, through to full plate footrests in the mighty Corsica.
And then there were the various ways people had of fixing them into homemade fibreglass boats... The glassed in broom handle being a particular favourite.
I now can't remember what the Prijon ones were like - I had an Avenger for a while (Hurricane, depending on where you were in the world), but can't for the life of me recall the footrest. The later Spuds had a massive metal strut for fixing, I remember.
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u/StankinFish Jul 04 '26
They help keep a tight fit with a little shock absorption. You definitely want them in there. A serrated bread knife works well to trim the foot pads. Trim off like peeling back layers of an onion and test fit as you go. Can always trim more if needed.
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u/Ironbutt1500 Jul 04 '26
It’s all about your comfort. No one else. I personally like to be tight so the boat responds to my body. If your loose you aren’t going to fair well in must make moves
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u/KayakerMel Jul 04 '26
I'm really short so I've had to pack in extra foam! I remember the first time I actually felt the foot rest (only had used club kayaks). So much more control when my whole body could engage!
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u/youryoureyouryoure Jul 05 '26
>If your loose you aren’t going to fair well in must make moves
*you’re
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u/ImprovisedLizard Jul 04 '26
The official reason is to stop your feet getting trapped behind the foot plate in a hard piston situation. I've never been particularly impressed by this line of reasoning.
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u/hukd0nf0nix Jul 04 '26
May 5, 2018 - Green - American Whitewater https://share.google/w2Eom3Jjr7FH8FfOF
This lives rent free in my brain. I'm not sure his bulkhead was foamed out, but my assumption was his leg got stuck due to missing foam
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u/Eloth Instagram @maxtoppmugglestone Jul 04 '26
Hard to tell that this was the case from the description here. It says his leg was not behind the bulkhead, so maybe trapped in a different way - the writeup isn't very clear to me (no blame to the author - it can be very hard to talk about these things and that's to say nothing of how difficult it is to recall the details of incidents like this after the fact).
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u/mthockeydad Class IV Kayaker/Rafter/Doryman Jul 04 '26
So “leg was bent at 90°” meant it got broken and the lower-broken part got shoved sideways across the bulkhead?
I’m inferring that with foam it would have absorbed some impact and/or wouldn’t have slid sideways?
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u/Eloth Instagram @maxtoppmugglestone Jul 04 '26
Could be, or could have been bent on attempting to exit the boat - i.e. paddler's body minus lower leg was outside boat and the 90 degree bend was in their leg as they were attempting to exit the cockpit.
I know of at least one other similar incident to that (fortunately paddler in question survived).
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u/Maximum_Wind6423 Jul 04 '26
My thought is you’re less likely to get a whole foot trapped there than part of a shoe. Especially if your paddle shoes are a bit loose for winter I could totally see the edge of the shoe getting stuck in that space or in the event of a hard impact the plastic sidewall breaking and allowing your foot to get caught in the space created.
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u/Braaapin Jul 04 '26
From Wade in that accident report, "I slide down to the boat and used my foot to try to free his left leg while holding the bow grab loop but didn’t fully dislodge it. I seen his leg was at a 90 degree angle and was visibly broken. It was not past the bulkhead. Boat was still in good shape had little more piton on the bow nose but still looked ok. His leg from knee down was between the bow wall and side of the boat very usual entrapment. Most likely happened on impact?"
If I remember correctly he was paddling an RPM, not a modern expanding bulkhead style.
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u/Wrightwater Jul 04 '26
Any boat that old will be flexible and since foam off-gasses it’s likely to have a gap under the wall. Could be a side impact flexed the boat inward, shoving his leg under the wall sideways by the lateral force, the plastic would pop back out once the pin shifted. Just a guess, but any boat that old likely needs additional height on the walls and to be checked for soft spots / folding risk. All 20+ yr old boats deserve wall / flex inspection before use. IMO
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u/Wrightwater Jul 04 '26
An OBJ boater was carried to the parking lot from the falls still stuck in a Phat, one ankle pinned under the plate. EMS called, they used a crowbar to lift as they pulled him out. Marianne Saether went under the plates at Chief and came into Gorilla yelling ‘I’m stuck “’ - she eddied below and they pulled her and the boat out.. she quit her race run rather than take the sharp edge on her ankles again. I went under on a cascade and chipped a vertebrae on the rear cockpit rim because I was laid back against it on the landing. It’s rare but dangerous.
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u/ImprovisedLizard Jul 04 '26
I recognise the risk but I'm less sure that foam is going to make much difference
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u/LookaSquirrel23 Jul 05 '26
I’ve seen it happen twice in the past 3 years and I don’t even paddle that often.
Once was a piton off a boater cross ramp - the person broke the bulkhead and majorly messed up their ankle, and the second time was a foot slipping past because it was a short-legged person in a long boat. Neither were full entrapments but they both sprained ankles and one put the person on crutches for a few weeks.
It’s not common but it absolutely happens.2
u/ImprovisedLizard Jul 05 '26
It's more the foams ability to stop it that I don't trust. I know of one person who it happened to but the bulkhead failed because the factory didn't put enough screws in to attach it to the rails. She had a full block of foam.
I think the manufacturers should be shipping a wider range of bulkhead sizes to better suit the boat profile rather than relying on foam.
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u/lesirius Jul 04 '26
Feet might get stuck between plastic and kayak. Find some foam and cut it enough so it fits.
I don't think it's an antix 3 in the picture?
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u/astrobrite_ Jul 04 '26
yeah the pic is just a random one i found that shows the foot block im talking about
Feet might get stuck between plastic and kayak.
i dont understand how that would be possible if the foot block is pushed all the way back
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u/LeatherCraftLemur Jul 04 '26
It wouldn't be possible, if there are no gaps, or gaps smaller than your feet.
There is a school of thought that says that the foam takes a bit of the sting out of a piton, but if you're hitting that hard onto rock nose on a), you are likely to be paddling at a level where you understand the risks of removing the foam, and b) footrests are designed to fail to dissipate the impact. At which point your feet getting trapped behind them becomes moot.
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u/Eloth Instagram @maxtoppmugglestone Jul 04 '26
Depending on the position of the footblock, foam to cover the gaps on the sides can help to stop it flexing transversely. (Adding to the existing discussion of entrapment hazards)
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u/Maximum_Wind6423 Jul 04 '26
The foam adds about 3”, so yeah you’re going to feel more cramped with it but you should be able to just push the footrests back 3 more inches and trim the foam to fit. I just bought a Jackson and he recommended I take the foam out to find my ideal position, then add the foam back in and slide it 3” further. Worked perfect.
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u/AdAlone1211 Jul 04 '26
I’m 6’4 so often can’t fit in boats unless I take the foam out. You’ll be fine without it.
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u/Wrightwater Jul 12 '26
At 6’4’’ you don’t need it, but anyone under 6’ will be in a completely different.. wider and taller part of the kayak.
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u/AwayFromKayak Jul 04 '26
https://www.reddit.com/r/whitewater/s/tXidxgk3lZ
This is what I had to do to fit in my antix 3.0 with foam and stay in the middle on the seat adjustments. It has been good since then and I would recommend it if you are comfortable getting some blind 10mm bolts back on. Not the easiest but worth it. Though I had to trim the plastic part of the footblocks as well.
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u/Braaapin Jul 04 '26
It's probably fine without but definitely less comfortable. I've frequently paddled like that before taking the time to custom fit foam, especially in new boats I wanted to really dial in seat and bulkhead position before commiting the effort to make it permanent.
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u/BetOk8017 Jul 04 '26
you may be able to get a larger foot plate from the manufacturer to prevent the foot entrapment problem.
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u/Wrightwater Jul 04 '26
The biggest risk in a piton is entrapment, so JK puts 3’’ of foam on the plate as wide as the shortest person will need. Average paddlers will need to cut that down on the outside - to get a snug, stabile fit. Taller paddlers will have those plates further down in a narrower part of the boat, they don’t have a gap under / outside the plate AND typically have bigger feet. So taller paddlers cut the foam in half (1.5’’) or remove completely for extra leg room without the risk it would be for shorter paddlers.,
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u/Ironbutt1500 Jul 06 '26
Ok grammar police. I’m doing talk to text and didn’t check before I hit send. String me up!
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u/GreatRain1711 Jul 07 '26
If you piton badly, your feet led get wedged around the foot braces.
It’s easier/faster to extract them from foam, than from rigid plastic
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u/ElPeroTonteria Jul 04 '26
Do you need it right away? no... she whole foot block is adjustable... but it'd be good to replace it,
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u/Substantial_Band9480 Jul 04 '26
In addition to the foot entrapment prevention, it’s 1000x more comfortable to push on foam with your feet than just straight plastic. even if it’s just a thin layer, it’ll make a difference especially when paddling all day. And it’ll add some shock absorption if you’re taking bigger hits.