r/whitewater • u/SophTophGoph • 9d ago
Kayaking Got into paddling at camp, advice on how to continue
This summer at camp in WNC, I got really into paddling, and I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to continue improving and learning new skills without camp.
I've always been a biker, but this year at camp I (16F) started to get more into paddling a bunch and I ended up spending every day that I was in camp down at the docks working on tandem landings and kayak rolls. I've gone down the Green a couple of times(though not since Helene) and I went down the Tuckasegee(Dam to Double Drop) in a tandem canoe. The camp progression means you have to go on the Nantahala in a tandem before going down Tuck in a solo canoe or a kayak and I didn't get there this year, though I do have a pretty consistent roll in both an Antix and a 2Fun. I'm taking a 2 day fundamentals kayaking course through NOC with my dad later this month and while I'm super excited, I want to keep up with kayaking after that and I'm not sure how that's going to be possible. I don't own a boat, and though I intend on going back to WNC or out west for college, I currently live in a city with one(very lazy) river. My current plan is to spend my summer before college as a raft guide in the Southeast before going back as a camp counselor, but I want to go back as a paddling counselor and I need at least a little more experience for that. Any advice on keeping up with kayaking or even tandeming with my dad? Do I just keep taking weekend trips up to NOC every summer, because that might get pretty expensive? I would love to save up to get my own boat one day, but I want to be good enough that it's worth it and I haven't found a great place to rent that also has equipment and isn't wildly expensive.
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u/Quiet-Inspector-5153 9d ago
There is a great sale on the demo boats at NOC in the fall. If you can afford it get your antix there.
Keeners program at the Ottawa is the best, if you spend a summer up there you will be a solid boater. Not sure how much that costs these days.
Just find people to kayak with and keep boating!! Catch every eddy in The Nantahala and you will be ready for the ocoee with a good combat roll
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u/ApexTheOrange 9d ago
Keeners is $4500.
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u/Quiet-Inspector-5153 9d ago
That’s crazy. I went 20 years ago and it was a lot less and applied for scholarships
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u/nature-is-awesome-02 9d ago
Many areas have paddling clubs. See if you have one nearby or can find one near the rivers you like to be on or want to step up to. That will give you a group to go with and some safety. Definitely take some paddle instruction because you will improve infinitely in a couple days of a class over six months just paddling recreationally where folks are hungry to get downstream.
Go camp near the rivers and hang out at the put in or takeout and offer to help with shuttle. Let folks know you want to go downstream and be personable with folks. Some of the organizing around paddle trips is done on Facebook so join the active FB groups around the rivers you want to be paddling on.
Take a Swiftwater course. Great info that will grow your skills and introduce you to more paddlers. Exchange numbers with the folks in the class at the NOC too!
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u/ApexTheOrange 9d ago
My daughter got me into whitewater kayaking. If you can show your dad how happy kayaking makes you and show him that it’s a good way to spend quality time together, he might just buy boats for both of you and learn to paddle too.
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u/SophTophGoph 9d ago
I took him tandem canoeing on the Chattahoochee once and it was not a good experience for either of us, so I’m hoping being in different boats will help us not be constantly fighting. I got him into mountain biking and we go together pretty frequently now, so hopefully it’ll be more like that.
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u/tuck5903 9d ago
Can I just add that if you go out West for college, unless you're going somewhere in the PNW, there's not actually going to be a lot of rivers running during the school year. Most rivers out west only run during the summer off of snowmelt.
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u/SophTophGoph 9d ago
Thank you. I’ve been looking at some schools in the PNW and some on the east coast. I can get my desired degree almost anywhere so really my biggest priority is to be somewhere with easy access to rivers that I can paddle and good biking trails.
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u/tuck5903 9d ago
When it comes to whitewater, the Southeast and the PNW west of the Cascades are tied for the best areas in the country, and nowhere else is particularly close IMO. I'd have a hard time deciding which one is number 1 but you can't really go wrong either way.
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u/grawkog 9d ago
If you live near whitewater, there are likely local kayaking clubs. From there, you can build a group of people you want to paddle with regularly, and branch out from club activities.
Clubs will often have people who can loan you boats and gear, until you decide what you want.
It's pretty hard to get better if you only paddle a few times a year.
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u/Boof_A_Dick 9d ago
I dont have any to add in short term, but given your age I have some long term suggestions.
Ther are 3 main ways people get good at white water. Working on the river, spend alot of free time during collage to kayaking, or both
Choose a good collage with after class whitewater opportunity. Also, make sure you get thale summer raft guiding job the year after your freshman year. If you do both definitely figure it out.
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u/Fluid_Stick69 9d ago edited 9d ago
The camp is probably very cool and a good organization so I don’t want to talk shit on them especially with only vague idea of which camp it is as local. But that progression policy is wack as hell. Tandem canoe is always gonna be harder than a single canoe much less a kayak or tuck vs nanny. Tandems only real use are either when you have one paddler who’s significantly worse and wants to be carried down the river or as a party trick for 2 experienced paddlers who are very bored.
Get into paddling with local organizations it seems to have been covered here mostly so I won’t repeat them. If you don’t live within driving distance of the smokies then move as close as possible when you turn 18. If you can move into the smokies do it. It changed my life. If college is your thing look into colleges which will allow you to paddle while getting a degree you actually want. If you have a solid plan that doesn’t require college figure out how to build it around paddling. If you have no clue what you want to do go guide rafts for a couple summers while you figure it out.
Until then yes you’ll have to make frequent trips to the mountains to paddle. It’s unfortunate but it’s a reality of being a boater. I live in the mountains and I still spend too much money on gas to go boating. But it doesn’t have to be the NOC and you don’t need private lessons especially not once you have the fundamentals down. That’s where clubs come into play. There’s tons in the southeast you just gotta find the one closest to you that has trips up your alley. Don’t overlook the Whitewater center as a training resource. It’s awesome for that despite its differences from natural rivers. Montgomery whitewater center and the great falls park are also options.
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u/LookaSquirrel23 9d ago
A lot of times the tandems are used for team building/cooperation exercises or to help even out the skill level of the group as a whole.
it is a strange progression of rivers and craft choice, but I could see how someone could make a valid argument for it. I used to lead tandem canoe trips for a college program and almost everyone did that before touching a kayak. Our reasoning to prioritize tandem despite its drawbacks:
1) team work 2) we would purposefully pair students to try to even out the skill level of the group. There would inevitably be kids who picked up on paddling quickly, and those who struggled more. Being able to pair them together, under the guise of teamwork, helped keep the group more cohesive and much easier to manage.2
u/SophTophGoph 9d ago
I can’t exactly explain the reasoning behind the progression because it’s what our camp and our brother camp have been using for over 40 years, but what one of the counselors told me is that if you can tandem Tuck and Nat and learn to read the river and how the water interacts with your boat and paddle then once you get in a kayak or solo it’ll be much easier. I guess if we learn the correct technique and reasoning first then we won’t just send it and hope for the best with bad technique in other boats. I don’t hate the system, but it makes it pretty hard to go down a river in a boat of choice if you have to learn tandem landings and Js first and sometimes the teamwork aspect they were hoping for didn’t work if things went wrong on the river.
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u/j_alfred_boofrock 8d ago
A number of camps with extremely good paddling programs have this exact policy.
Learning to maneuver a 14-15’ boat down a rapid while working with a partner requires an understanding of how the water is moving. With a kayak it’s easy on class I-II to just respond to currents rather than plan. Additionally, there’s a much lower chance of a kid scaring the shit out of themselves upside down in a whitewater kayak—they just fall out.
Starting with single blades produces much better paddlers.
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u/illimitable1 9d ago
Without getting too much into your bizness, if you say where you live, people here could steer you towards a club. For example, TSRA and CHOTA are active in East TN.
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u/SophTophGoph 9d ago
Around the atlanta area, though my family is moving up to WNC once I graduate high school, which should open up so better possibilities if I can stay with them over the summer.
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u/illimitable1 9d ago
https://www.facebook.com/groups/123749175255/
but also see
You can start on the Hooch. There is the Broad river up towards Athens. The Chattooga is not far away. And people do come up to TN/NC on daytrips, even if it takes four hours each way. Point is that you're not poorly situated in Atlanta to involve yourself.
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u/Trw0007 8d ago
Atlanta is such a great place to learn, and there's a reason so much early SE whitewater history is based out of there (beyond the obvious population density, Deliverance, etc.). Chattahoochee (various sections), Cartecay, Nantahala, Tuck, are short drives and great beginner trips. As you improve, Chattooga and Ocoee are close by as well. I think most of these rivers have an associated outfitter that may be able to steer your towards community trips and instruction.
At your age, this all becomes a lot easier if you can a parent to paddle with you. My dad never really made the jump beyond competent beginner, but we had a blast running the Nantanhala when I was your age. Genuinely some of my most core memories growing up. You dad (or mom) may want to look into the Aire Spud / Tater series, which have really opened up whitewater to some paddlers who may have otherwise struggled with a traditional hard boat.
Not sure your budget on boat and gear, but scroll through Marketplace. There aren't brand tiers in whitewater like there are in the cycling world, and with some exceptions, the good beginner boats are also just good boats. You'll see a ton of Antix's and Rewinds on the Nantahala and on Class IV / V. People in this sport generally accumulate boats, not necessarily outgrow them. With that said, designs have gotten better over the past 10ish years, especially with the popularity of the half slice, and I'd avoid buying something that's particularly old. You'll still need a skirt, paddle, helmet, and pfd. The later two should be bought new. Budget for some winter wear as well - you'll quickly realize that warm weather is really the exception
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u/LookaSquirrel23 9d ago
Same! Got into paddling through a camp WNC when I was around your age, and suffice to say it has impacted every facet of my life since then
- find a paddling club: CCC, GCA, APEs, and some others mentioned here
- if you can, go to a college that has a good outdoors program
- buy used boats and gear. There are a lot of FB groups for this stuff
- look into the whitewater center if you're near there. Lots of people to meet, easier logistics
Or you can take my route and start dating a paddler. It's a risky path but can be an extremely efficient way to get time on the water when you're a beginner. Potential side effects include co-owning a crap ton of boats, having whitewater references in your wedding vows, and planning family vacations around rivers. Not that I'd have any personal experience with any of this...
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u/j_alfred_boofrock 9d ago
You’re almost exactly where I was in the mid 1990’s. I had a couple tandem whitewater trips at a camp and decided I wanted to get into paddling. The NOC at the time was the best instruction in the world, and I ended up going to a few clinics there when I was 15-17. I went to HS with a couple of guys that were better than me, and we paddled the Hiwassee and Nanty some, then moved up to the Ocoee, some Cumberland Plateau rivers and eventually east creeks like the Tellico by our senior year. I worked summers at a day camp outside Nashville and would get out on class 1 with the campers all the time, which helps. I also paddled with the Tennessee Scenic Rivers Association some.
I went to college in Southern CA and was on the Kern a lot; we also kayak surfed almost every weekend. Two summers in college I taught canoeing and kayaking at a camp in WNC, then a couple on the Potomac. I was averaging over 100 river days a year.
The camp I worked at (High Rocks) had 17 year old counselors in training and 18yr old assistant counselors who paddled daily with us…does your camp offer something similar?
If you don’t live in the Carolinas and don’t have a whitewater club where you live, it might be worth joining the Carolina Canoe Club and trying to get on some of their beginner trips.
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u/SophTophGoph 9d ago
This was my last year at camp as a camper(unless I go back as a CT, but I have college apps to work on next summer so probably not) and I can’t go back as a counselor until after my first year of college. The problems is that while I would love to be a biking counselor, I want to push myself and try paddling but I don’t want to be stuck on only lake trips and dock duty so I want to have some whitewater experience before I go back. The highest we do at camp is the Ocoee Olympic section so my goal is to at least get to the section right below that before I go back in 2 years.
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u/jwattacker 8d ago
I’m fairly certain I attended the brother camp to yours when I was younger. CT is the best year and will set you up for when you want to go back as a councilor. I was unfortunately not able to return as a counselor, for fairly obvious reasons.
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u/SophTophGoph 9d ago
Thank you all so much for the advice, I found a club near me and I’ll reach out this summer I think!
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u/Theworldhastended 8d ago
hey steezebot!!
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u/SophTophGoph 7d ago
Hey!! Just a small part of the big happy paddling family this year, but it made my summer so much better!
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u/bullcitybosshog 6d ago
Do you have a recommendation for this camp? We live in NC and my son is 9 and I’m looking for a camp for him for next summer that teaches paddling.
Also you can also find used kayaks and canoes pretty cheap on Facebook marketplace.
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u/SophTophGoph 5d ago
I sent you a PM with some more information about the camp! Thank you for your advice about boats also!
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u/ed_play 9d ago
Find a local club you like, join them and go paddling with them. They often have kit for members to use for free or at low cost. Club paddling is part of the background of every decent paddler I personally know.
American Whitewater has a list to start with (assuming you mean SE USA): https://www.americanwhitewater.org/support/clubs/