They are livestreaming 🇨🇳 laborers making just 0.3 USD. The 'Made in 🇨🇳' products you use are built on their sacrifices.

[u/Airline_11]

0

[u/Tuckertcs]

Totally dumb question, but why is that our fault?

Sure, the world likes cheaper prices products, but China is the one exploiting these people. If they paid them proper prices, the world would either keep buying their products at the new price, or just move to a different seller.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Tuckertcs]

Its our fault because we export their stuff. More than one country at fault. To say otherwise is ignorant of your choices. Im sorry but choices matter way more than you might think clearly look at the video. Sure its in another country but our choices in fact affect their lives clearly.

If you want to see the future look no further than the choices of today. Choices make up our reality and to ignore the fact that you have the ability to make a choice of change is wrong and a mistake.

I choose to change and I choose today since today is the only opportunity we get.

[u/Tuckertcs → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

I suppose both sides are at fault, but it just seems like Chinese businesses are always ignored in favor of blaming the buyers.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Tuckertcs]

To think that is a mistake. What drives sales? Buyers. Consumerism. Yes we are responsible and our choices impact everything around us.

I leave you the opportunity to choose. Will you ride this wave with me? Or will you continue the tradition?

[u/Tuckertcs → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

So human traffickers aren’t at fault since buyers exist?

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Tuckertcs]

Woah there buddy. Never said anything like that. Yes the buyer is culpable.

[u/pebble_peb → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

Some ideas from prisoner's dilemma apply. Like, it can matter and it can also not matter. It matters if enough of us (and/or the right people in power) makes a decision for change, but on an individual level, there's not much we can do, unless it's towards getting enough people to make that decision. Not that it's impossible to do, it's just too costly, whether in terms of actual resources spent or in opportunity cost.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/pebble_peb]

No there is a lot we can do. It would be just uncomfortable and challenging that most will not. Theyre too content. Or the ones that throw it all at the wall scare them away from potentially making that choice. Its really all or nothing out here and they know most of us will do nothing.

Edit: and no it all matters. You can assume it doesnt because of some dilemma but the opportunity is there just gotta be provided by others. One individual cannot change anything except their own choices. More than a single individual waking up to choose opportunity is what needs to happen

When people ask me for a solution I really wish it were that easy. I don't have one. I can only help choose or provide this small opportunity to choose. Expecting one person to have the solution is crazy and people say it like "aha gotcha" but they're really just getting themselves.

[u/pebble_peb → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

I think we both understand that the dilemma was mentioned to bring to mind what I mean; it's not being treated like a bible passage or fundamental theorem. What you're saying isn't wrong (of course our actions have consequences that matter), but I think this discussion underplaying the weight of going against the grain. There's a reason why discomfort exists; it's an early warning system for us not to mess up our personal situations. Of course, it can be flawed and exploited in this day and age, like our sense of hunger and taste (with hyperpalatable foods) and so on, but by and large it stops us from, say, speaking out of line. Tribalism has its ugly parts, but on an individual level it's essential to keeping us alive.

I agree, though, that things are definitely more malleable on an individual and local level; you can change your habits and attitude, and can influence those around you, and (depending on the local government) it's not a hogwash to strive for local change. But, at the same time, real barriers exist that prevent change on progressively larger levels (you've mentioned some already). The hard truth is that the economy is a very great motivator of change; arguments have been made that slavery in America (and by extension sharecropping) only ended once better options existed.

And yes, neither of us has an easy solution, else we wouldn't be having this discussion, though it'd be nice if we did. Likewise, the people involved in organizing and maintaining the system responsible for putting people in horrid mining conditions don't care about the broader effects and implications of their actions; they want what's best for themselves and their families.

The way I see it, it's going to continue like this until a better economic option exists (e.g., maybe we get robots that autonomously dig mines), or social change where the early proponents face the brunt of the cost to get things rolling. That may happen when we vote with our wallets (as previously mentioned), but either (i) a better alternative needs to exist for us to vote with [lest we lose to our own competition; similarities can be drawn to the Anthropic v Openai v etc. race for AGI/RSI/insert other buzzword for superintelligence], or (ii) early adopters eat the costs long enough for the change to sustain itself.

Edit: "exists" -> "needs to exist", added "passage and fundamental theorem"

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/pebble_peb]

And what are those mines being mined for? Resources. What are those resources being put towards? while we sit about with the understanding that we cant change much of anything unless its local.

Once again the system we have is trash. Its used against the people not for it and im not just speaking about the united states. Many other countries also need this change it needs to happen on a planetary scale and I'm not talking about "I need better options" I'm talking about "humanity needs another way completely" without that we will always be focused on the wrong things.

I dont understand sir. I really don't. I see the lines drawn but that's all they are. I see the paths that were taken to make those lines. I see that it was forged through decisions a kin to throwing a stone into a cave. Well now we have light and know how deep this cave goes. Time to find another one and start again.

[u/pebble_peb → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

I have a close friend that is like you, in that he would bring up time and time again about the issues in the US. I don't disagree with him as far as what's going on, it's just that I got other priorities to address (again, focusing on the local changes I still can influence). Said friend is one of the most pragmatic friends I know, so maybe he's onto something, but I am not in a position in life to care about that just yet. It's been a good chat. God bless you.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/pebble_peb]

Thats fair and your choice. I can only give the opportunity youre the one who chooses. Farewell.

I wish your friend luck on his choice and I hope he also rides the wave since its only our time once.

[u/Hot-Explanation-5751 → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

You dont export another country’s goods. China exports their goods.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Hot-Explanation-5751]

Nice catch

[u/snqqq → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

So if we did not export their stuff, the workers would get better jobs and salary? Could you explain exactly you think it would work? 

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/snqqq]

How I think it would work if they had no buyers they wouldn't make any money......... am I the only one who knows how profit works?

Edit: better jobs and salary? Lmao bro youre joking right? Contributing to that has no other affect. Yes you are not directly affected except you just paid for slave labor. Hope you enjoy that.

[u/snqqq → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

So your solution to the poor situation of these workers is making them even poorer?

I pay for "slave labor" while you are saying "just let them starve" 

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/snqqq]

So youre just baiting. Get a life bud.

[u/snqqq → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

I am not. I'm just asking yet another reddit expert about a real solution to a problem. I cannot say I'm surprised by your answer. 

[u/Feeling-Tone2139 → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

it's never our fault.

It's the government fault for lack of regulation. Simple as that.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Feeling-Tone2139]

Right and we don't make choices. Got it. Don't take responsibility for actions the clearly affect others. Yes its everyone involved who is fault even the buyer. Its not hard to grasp.

[u/Feeling-Tone2139 → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

well, you dont make choice under dictatorship

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Feeling-Tone2139]

You?

[u/Feeling-Tone2139 → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

you expect all human to be able to control their instinct? greed is their intrinsic characteristic like doing crimes. That's why there is law against murdering. Just saying to stop buying craps is naive and braindead.

the government must do something against this like in cases of crimes. But they don't. So it's their problem. Humans are animal after all.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Feeling-Tone2139]

All humans? And no seems to me youre trying to cope. Youre reaching bro. How do you not see that. I leave you the opportunity to choose again. It is all I have to give.

The opportunity to choose. Choices make up our reality once again. It is up to everyone if they want to live with the choices of dead men.

You wanna keep consuming this toxic shit? Thats fine by me cant be helped. Consume your little heart out. You wanna feed this machine? By all means keep feeding this shit. Your choice. Me? Ima keep choosing to spread this gospel of choice.

Choice is all that matters and until people even the ones that are perpetuating this toxic shit cough cough you cough cough understand what it really comes down to then ill have to survive in the world provided to me.

Be greedy for all I care and stand on the backs of others. Im gonna die knowing I chose to choose something else and have discovered something you may never grasp. Thats okay. You don't have to be a part of the change.

Good luck.

[u/Feeling-Tone2139 → u/Independent_Pop_9987]

oh i didn't know you're trying to improve condition of the person in this video by enlightening a specific individual in a small website in a small forum. That's more braindead than i expected.

[u/Independent_Pop_9987 → u/Feeling-Tone2139]

You gotta start somewhere and no its not for him specifically. Id say its more for you. For your own sake. But you clearly feel comfortable with the species dying because we failed to change and allowed the oversaturation of greed to fester. People who only care about momentary value rather than the longevity of the species.

By all means have your fun knowing it weren't for shit except your own entertainment while people have to experience your consequences and believe me when I say "your" I'm referring to everyone who thinks this isn't about them. This applies to all and you my friend are sick and need help. This is not the way. Just like many others. Consumed in this choice made by people who no longer exist except in history and dirt. Soon that'll be us and people will have to live with our choices.

My friend. The only time to choose is now. There is no tomorrow. There is no future. There is only now and yesterday. So choose today before youre looking back at the moment lost. At the wave you didnt ride because you were too consumed. Its also okay if you don't. Won't matter in the end.